PDA

View Full Version : How about the T190 ?


ConstSvcs
07-13-2008, 12:58 AM
ok.......I'm planning on a CTL purchase next week. Just waiting for a final quote from CAT on a 247B and a final number from Takeuchi on a T130. I haven't tried the T190 from Bobcat but am interested in knowing what the T190 owners have to say about their machines.

I love the CAT but I can't justify a total bottom rebuild at $ 10,000 at 1700+ hours.

I do plan on keeping this machine for 6+ years and figure I'll be logging about 300 hours a year.

mhilton
07-13-2008, 08:22 AM
I bought a tak tl 140 this year, Before I bought I looked at tl 130 and bobcat 190 and bobcat is not on top of the market anymore and I think that shows the most with there ctl, I think there are lacking in more ways but most important is power

KPS
07-13-2008, 10:39 AM
while our T190 is a tough machine, it is also extremely rough to operate, noisy as heck, and not the best in the ctl crowd right now. I have not run the takeuchi but most here love them. We just got a new 257B2 this year and so far it's flawless. Yes it could use 5 more horses, but for me its a complete joy to operate in all conditions. The rebuild cost for the suspended undercarriage is not an issue to me if my back is still good and my kidneys aren't shaken all day. Try as many as you can and buy the one you like best cause 6 or more years is a long time to run a machine that you don't truly like. My .02

hansondirtman
07-13-2008, 11:07 AM
Ther undercarriage repair costs will be greater on the T190 at 1700 hours than the 247 (esp the b2), actual owners of both have testified to that.

mrsops
07-13-2008, 11:49 AM
Ther undercarriage repair costs will be greater on the T190 at 1700 hours than the 247 (esp the b2), actual owners of both have testified to that.

yeah but at 1700 hours on the t190 it will be the first time replacing things on the cat 247 at 1700 hours will be the second time replacing everything :).

i must say I'm very happy with my t190 its a tough machine mine has 1630 hours i believe and to date all i have replaced on the undercarriage were sprockets that were under warranty and 2 shields that cover there hoses and fittings once you take the tracks off. other then that i cant complain about it.

bobcat_ron
07-13-2008, 12:50 PM
I'd still take the Cat over the Tak and Bobcat, suspended is the only way to go and with some minor investments in Bair Products line of ASV rollers and idlers, they are damn near bullet proof.

My T190 (1750+ hrs) was due for the second set of tracks, new pair of sprockets, new pair of rear idlers and the front idler guides would have to be machined to get the slop out of them, after that cost, I could buy a new pair of tracks and front ilders for my Cat.

Bobcat and Tak's also like to suck fuel and run hot hydraulic oil, my Cat is saving me money in fuel and it takes more than 6 hours of continuous digging to really heat the hydraulic oil up to max. temps.

mhilton
07-13-2008, 02:08 PM
I tested a cat before i bought my tak and yeah they are nice machines but the rollers suck for working in 3/4 stone, because they are coated. Even the cat rep in nj told me when I was doing the demo that Due to the squirrel cage design and coated rollers the cat was not my best opton for the work we do.

ksss
07-13-2008, 02:28 PM
The T190 is very weak in hp and breakout, loud the hyd noise is unacceptable, if you get it in AHC you have a machine with no servo assist making the machine a workout to run with an unacceptable amount of feedback. These machines are at the lowest level in their class of machines. I cant speak for reliability or durability but with all CTL/MTL the way they are ran has a lot to do with how long they last. They would likely be much more affordable to rebuild than a CAT.


I would look at the CASE 420 Series 3. I was looking at the specs last night and this machine is ready to go to work. It has 2K ROC at 35%, 74 hp, pilot controls and much stronger breakout force, and much higher hyd. flow, not to mention ride control as an option making it much more comfortable and productive to run. Given the choices that you list the TK is much heavier duty than any of the other machines listed. It may not be as quiet or as smooth as the CAT, but it is much better built for abuse than is the CAT. It would depend on what you want to do with it.

bobcat_ron
07-13-2008, 02:56 PM
I tested a cat before i bought my tak and yeah they are nice machines but the rollers suck for working in 3/4 stone, because they are coated. Even the cat rep in nj told me when I was doing the demo that Due to the squirrel cage design and coated rollers the cat was not my best opton for the work we do.

If you do more than 50% demo work, then forget the Cat, but even that type of work can be hazardous to any CTL.

mrsops
07-13-2008, 04:14 PM
I tested a cat before i bought my tak and yeah they are nice machines but the rollers suck for working in 3/4 stone, because they are coated. Even the cat rep in nj told me when I was doing the demo that Due to the squirrel cage design and coated rollers the cat was not my best opton for the work we do.

i was told the same thing

SiteSolutions
07-14-2008, 11:42 PM
My T-190 is a good 'un.

Depends on what you're going to do with them, but if you get anywhere near crushed limestone in a Cat, you're going to be doing a $10,000 rebuild at 170 hours, not 1700.

The ride is, ahem, abrupt in the 190, no doubt. But, at 750 hours, my tracks have barely broken in, except for some nicks and cuts. A big part of that phenomenon is the fact that nobody runs my machine but me. I keep it greased, filters blown out, and it delivers solid performance. I like it just fine but KSSS hates them for some reason. And he may know stuff I don't.

Just my $.02

SiteSolutions
07-14-2008, 11:47 PM
Ther undercarriage repair costs will be greater on the T190 at 1700 hours than the 247 (esp the b2), actual owners of both have testified to that.

I have to call bullsh17 on this. I am even considering a Cat MTL next time around but you can't be serious. I know a guy who runs both and traded in his Cat to get away from $10,000 u/c rebuilds. After the 3rd one. In a year.

Please, let's have a link or something to substantiate this claim.

Or are you stating that since the 247 u/c will be rebuilt at 500 hours, 1000 hours, and 1500 hours, the cost at 1700 hours will be a lot less than the Bobcat, which will be due for it's first rebuild?

bobcat_ron
07-14-2008, 11:57 PM
I have to call bullsh17 on this. I am even considering a Cat MTL next time around but you can't be serious. I know a guy who runs both and traded in his Cat to get away from $10,000 u/c rebuilds. After the 3rd one. In a year.

Please, let's have a link or something to substantiate this claim.

Or are you stating that since the 247 u/c will be rebuilt at 500 hours, 1000 hours, and 1500 hours, the cost at 1700 hours will be a lot less than the Bobcat, which will be due for it's first rebuild?

You aren't actually rebuilding the whole damn undercarriage, with my machine it'll be just roller swapping out with the inner ones, as the outer ones get the most abuse, tracks would be replaced at 1000 hours, if anyone is wearing them down and thrashing them at 500 hours, they need a hole in their head as that type of work/operator is not where any CTL should be.
A steel on steel/rubber U/C will need huge amounts of cash put into it at anything near the 2000 hour mark as all moving parts will need TLC. Everytime you do a track change, you will need to do a sprocket change, I don't care if you think it's not needed, an old sprocket will wear faster on a new track. Even the dozers are getting major components changed out at 2000 hours.

Digdeep
07-15-2008, 12:12 AM
I have to call bullsh17 on this. I am even considering a Cat MTL next time around but you can't be serious. I know a guy who runs both and traded in his Cat to get away from $10,000 u/c rebuilds. After the 3rd one. In a year.

Please, let's have a link or something to substantiate this claim.

Or are you stating that since the 247 u/c will be rebuilt at 500 hours, 1000 hours, and 1500 hours, the cost at 1700 hours will be a lot less than the Bobcat, which will be due for it's first rebuild?

I can tell you from personal experience that:
the guy paying for 3 $10,000 rebuilds in one year got BENT OVER by his CAT dealer. It is very true that the front and rear wheels get abused in crushed stone but the middle rollers take very little abuse in it. I've run my machine in crush run (about 130 hours worth) and it did chip my rear idlers and a little on my fronts but the middle rollers were fine. ASV came out with a steel roller on the rear as standard (CAT has this too) and I have heard a rumor that they may offer front steel as an option. The tracks are not hurt by crush run stone. Perfect machines...NO but not even close to a rebuild at 170 hours. I would bet that if I was only operating in crush run stone or base rock that I would get 500 hours out of front and rear and 1200-1500 out of middle rolers and tracks. Now with front and rear steel they will last longer than the tracks. The improvement of the Bseries CATs and new ASVs only has you replace the rubber dognut now anyway at about $50 each which is once again moot because the rear is steel and if true the front will be too. That guy needs to be questioning his dealers judgement.

I also sold more than 200 Bobcat track loaders over 8 years and they are just as far from perfect as the CAT machines. Crush run stone does not damage the wheels but it does cause cuts into the rubber when the rollers force the rock into the track. This allows the cables to rust prematurely and reduces track life. An owner operator will get better life out of either machine..Bobcat or CAT. Based on both my experiences with the ASV/CAT undercarriage (as an owner) and a Bobcat salesman I would call the operating cost of both machines very close.

ksss
07-15-2008, 12:17 AM
My T-190 is a good 'un.

Depends on what you're going to do with them, but if you get anywhere near crushed limestone in a Cat, you're going to be doing a $10,000 rebuild at 170 hours, not 1700.

The ride is, ahem, abrupt in the 190, no doubt. But, at 750 hours, my tracks have barely broken in, except for some nicks and cuts. A big part of that phenomenon is the fact that nobody runs my machine but me. I keep it greased, filters blown out, and it delivers solid performance. I like it just fine but KSSS hates them for some reason. And he may know stuff I don't.

Just my $.02

Its good that you are getting along fine with your T-190. Some of my displeasure is likely do to running machines that are lot stronger than the T-190. That would explain the performance issues, I will never get over the discomfort involved with running that machine.... the noise, and the feedback in the controls. The machine constantly going over relief when pushed. They are very weak in the power department for a tracked skid steer.

Bobcat has sold a boat load of these machines, so maybe I am just picky. If you cut your teeth on a Bobcat you would be right at home in the 190.

I hope Site Solutions that it is not as hot in Huntsville as it was last year. I do miss the Cat fish at O'Briens (I think that is the name of the place, great food).

SiteSolutions
07-15-2008, 12:17 AM
Fair enough; I just thought it was beyond belief to suggest that the Cat u/c would be cheaper to rebuild than a Bobcat.

SiteSolutions
07-15-2008, 12:25 AM
Its good that you are getting along fine with your T-190. Some of my displeasure is likely do to running machines that are lot stronger than the T-190. That would explain the performance issues, I will never get over the discomfort involved with running that machine.... the noise, and the feedback in the controls. The machine constantly going over relief when pushed. They are very weak in the power department for a tracked skid steer.

Bobcat has sold a boat load of these machines, so maybe I am just picky. If you cut your teeth on a Bobcat you would be right at home in the 190.

I hope Site Solutions that it is not as hot in Huntsville as it was last year. I do miss the Cat fish at O'Briens (I think that is the name of the place, great food).

We got two weeks of Spring and then it has been in the low 90's every day that it hasn't stormed! Great weather, and hopefully it will not be anywhere near like last year.

My first 190, a standard-controls ex-rental fleet 190 was a lot harder on the operator than my K series. It still beats the crap out my kidneys but other than that is pretty comfortable. Overall, it can do a lot of stuff good enough, and take abuse, too. That's my big question mark with going to a Cat; could it stand up to what I dish out? It does seem weak when lifting a full pallet of sod, or when I tried to roll out sod with it with the Bobcat sod roller... very tippy.

There's no Case dealer around here so I don't know what I'm missing there.

ksss
07-15-2008, 12:39 AM
We got two weeks of Spring and then it has been in the low 90's every day that it hasn't stormed! Great weather, and hopefully it will not be anywhere near like last year.

My first 190, a standard-controls ex-rental fleet 190 was a lot harder on the operator than my K series. It still beats the crap out my kidneys but other than that is pretty comfortable. Overall, it can do a lot of stuff good enough, and take abuse, too. That's my big question mark with going to a Cat; could it stand up to what I dish out? It does seem weak when lifting a full pallet of sod, or when I tried to roll out sod with it with the Bobcat sod roller... very tippy.

There's no Case dealer around here so I don't know what I'm missing there.


As long as it makes you money and are happy running it thats all that matters.

CASE does not have all the right answers, but they do believe in putting big power in their machines, the controls systems are comfortable to run and precise, and above all they are reliable and built heavy duty. I can squeeze a lot of work out of a CASE skid steer. I saw a CASE dealer near the TN border (on the way to the Jack Daniels distillery, great tour by the way).

Summit L & D
07-15-2008, 01:02 AM
Is there a reason no one ever mentions the Komatsu machines? I took a look at them a few weeks ago, and from what I saw they seemed to be a pretty solid machine.

ddivinia
07-15-2008, 01:09 AM
All this talk makes me think I am going to get a wheel machine...

D.

Digdeep
07-15-2008, 01:28 AM
All this talk makes me think I am going to get a wheel machine...

D.

They have their pros and cons too and everyone has a favorite flavor of skid steer but that for aother thread:)

ddivinia
07-15-2008, 01:34 AM
So, I am learning. I have a lot of research to do and need some seat time before I am going to buy anything.

D.

mrsops
07-15-2008, 06:46 PM
We got two weeks of Spring and then it has been in the low 90's every day that it hasn't stormed! Great weather, and hopefully it will not be anywhere near like last year.

My first 190, a standard-controls ex-rental fleet 190 was a lot harder on the operator than my K series. It still beats the crap out my kidneys but other than that is pretty comfortable. Overall, it can do a lot of stuff good enough, and take abuse, too. That's my big question mark with going to a Cat; could it stand up to what I dish out? It does seem weak when lifting a full pallet of sod, or when I tried to roll out sod with it with the Bobcat sod roller... very tippy.

There's no Case dealer around here so I don't know what I'm missing there.

i just purchased a 2008 t190 k series let me tell you something its a pleasure to operate not noisy at all it has the foam and sound reduction package i will never buy another machine with out that option.. i do alot of heavy work with my t190 where i couldn't do with the cat track machine because it doesn't have the rigid undercarriage

mhilton
07-15-2008, 09:32 PM
If you think the t190 has a rigid undecarage then you should have bought a tak. Bobcat is just a toy or landscapers big wheelbarrow

bobcat_ron
07-15-2008, 09:54 PM
i just purchased a 2008 t190 k series let me tell you something its a pleasure to operate not noisy at all it has the foam and sound reduction package i will never buy another machine with out that option.. i do alot of heavy work with my t190 where i couldn't do with the cat track machine because it doesn't have the rigid undercarriage

Simply amazing, you need a foam an sound reduction package just to make the machine less noisy on the inside, I've seen that kit, it's a bloody nightmare to keep clean!

Mr. Rain
07-15-2008, 10:09 PM
Simply amazing, you need a foam an sound reduction package just to make the machine less noisy on the inside,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we just get to see pictures of you cutting and pasting 113 or so little pieces of foam "just to keep a little dust out"?:)

bobcat_ron
07-15-2008, 10:22 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we just get to see pictures of you cutting and pasting 113 or so little pieces of foam "just to keep a little dust out"?:)

Yeah, but it wasn't an effort to make it quieter! :laugh:

ksss
07-15-2008, 10:36 PM
i just purchased a 2008 t190 k series let me tell you something its a pleasure to operate not noisy at all it has the foam and sound reduction package i will never buy another machine with out that option.. i do alot of heavy work with my t190 where i couldn't do with the cat track machine because it doesn't have the rigid undercarriage


Wow, what else can I say.:dizzy:

I have not been in a 190 that was capable of "heavy work" maybe they made some changes to them for 08.

Digdeep
07-15-2008, 10:42 PM
i just purchased a 2008 t190 k series let me tell you something its a pleasure to operate not noisy at all it has the foam and sound reduction package i will never buy another machine with out that option.. i do alot of heavy work with my t190 where i couldn't do with the cat track machine because it doesn't have the rigid undercarriage

I have to side with most others on here. I sold dozens of T190s and after the T140(absolute dog with minimal traction) the T180 and T190 are grossly underpowered in my opinion.

ConstSvcs
07-15-2008, 11:17 PM
I have to side with most others on here. I sold dozens of T190s and after the T140(absolute dog with minimal traction) the T180 and T190 are grossly underpowered in my opinion.

I believe I now have the answer to that problem :dancing:

http://www.takeuchi-us.com/TL230.html

mrsops
07-16-2008, 12:07 AM
Yeah, but it wasn't an effort to make it quieter! :laugh:

whats the differnce if its to make it quieter or waste time like you did keeping the dust out lol.

mrsops
07-16-2008, 12:10 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we just get to see pictures of you cutting and pasting 113 or so little pieces of foam "just to keep a little dust out"?:)

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

mrsops
07-16-2008, 12:11 AM
Wow, what else can I say.:dizzy:

I have not been in a 190 that was capable of "heavy work" maybe they made some changes to them for 08.

yeah i guess that explains why you rented them how many times??

mrsops
07-16-2008, 12:28 AM
I have to side with most others on here. I sold dozens of T190s and after the T140(absolute dog with minimal traction) the T180 and T190 are grossly underpowered in my opinion.

i agree about the t140

ConstSvcs
07-16-2008, 01:05 AM
i just purchased a 2008 t190 k series let me tell you something its a pleasure to operate not noisy at all it has the foam and sound reduction package i will never buy another machine with out that option.. i do alot of heavy work with my t190 where i couldn't do with the cat track machine because it doesn't have the rigid undercarriage


What did you pay for the '08 K series T190 ??

Scag48
07-16-2008, 02:14 AM
yeah i guess that explains why you rented them how many times??

I highly doubt KSSS would pay to run T190. I would stand out on a limb to say that I recall him saying he demo'd a few and every time was unimpressed. Seems to be the consensus of folks who demand a little more out of their equipment after running a T190.

SiteSolutions
07-16-2008, 08:08 AM
There sure are a lot of T-190 haters up in here! I must be miserable and just not know it. Whenever I can finally pay off (or at least way down) this unreasonably high note, I have got to try me a few different brands.

Seriously, is it that bad a machine?

tbi
07-16-2008, 08:16 AM
I sure am glad I don't listen to the know it alls on this board. If I did I'd have to stay home on the couch due to all the doom and gloom about the economy and poor machines. LOL

JDSKIDSTEER
07-16-2008, 08:26 AM
We got two weeks of Spring and then it has been in the low 90's every day that it hasn't stormed! Great weather, and hopefully it will not be anywhere near like last year.

My first 190, a standard-controls ex-rental fleet 190 was a lot harder on the operator than my K series. It still beats the crap out my kidneys but other than that is pretty comfortable. Overall, it can do a lot of stuff good enough, and take abuse, too. That's my big question mark with going to a Cat; could it stand up to what I dish out? It does seem weak when lifting a full pallet of sod, or when I tried to roll out sod with it with the Bobcat sod roller... very tippy.

There's no Case dealer around here so I don't know what I'm missing there.Cowin is the Case dealer on I565 and McCutcheson in Tanner and Fayettville handle Case, but all 3 locations have maybe 2 or 3 on their lots and no experience for support. Good for me. They use to own this town 15 years ago when they had a strong dealer.

KSS, O'Brians is correct. Good food. It was 65 this morning, but will be in 90's today. Being raised in Chicago, I will take hot summer and warm winters over cold windy winters any day though.

ksss
07-16-2008, 10:40 AM
Cowin is the Case dealer on I565 and McCutcheson in Tanner and Fayettville handle Case, but all 3 locations have maybe 2 or 3 on their lots and no experience for support. Good for me. They use to own this town 15 years ago when they had a strong dealer.

KSS, O'Brians is correct. Good food. It was 65 this morning, but will be in 90's today. Being raised in Chicago, I will take hot summer and warm winters over cold windy winters any day though.

I cant argue that about the weather, Winters up here suck. It had been a long time since I was as miserable as I was last summer in Huntsville (Thailand in 1990 to be exact). The CASE dealer looked real small up there. Like you said one less color to have to compete with.

JDSKIDSTEER
07-16-2008, 12:08 PM
I cant argue that about the weather, Winters up here suck. It had been a long time since I was as miserable as I was last summer in Huntsville (Thailand in 1990 to be exact). The CASE dealer looked real small up there. Like you said one less color to have to compete with.
If you ever get back in town let me know I feed you at O'Brians'.

ksss
07-16-2008, 09:32 PM
If you ever get back in town let me know I feed you at O'Brians'.


I will be going back just not this year. I'll take you up on that.

Nelson M Martin
07-16-2008, 10:51 PM
I have to side with most others on here. I sold dozens of T190s and after the T140(absolute dog with minimal traction) the T180 and T190 are grossly underpowered in my opinion.

Maybe i should not mention it on this thread...but i can let you guys know that the T190 can easily be tweeked on the fuel to give it plenty of power for the machine size.
I drove one lately (my brothers T190) with the fuel set a bit richer.
the only way to stall the engine was to push into a pile of soil and curl the bucket back and lift the boom ....all at one time

SiteSolutions
07-16-2008, 11:41 PM
Maybe i should not mention it on this thread...but i can let you guys know that the T190 can easily be tweeked on the fuel to give it plenty of power for the machine size.
I drove one lately (my brothers T190) with the fuel set a bit richer.
the only way to stall the engine was to push into a pile of soil and curl the bucket back and lift the boom ....all at one time

I might turn my fuel up, but not while I've got this bumper to bumper warranty. You're just talking about turning that little screw on the injection pump, right? The one safety-wired in place...

SiteSolutions
07-16-2008, 11:42 PM
If you ever get back in town let me know I feed you at O'Brians'.

I'll help ya eat; just let me know... :laugh:

ksss
07-17-2008, 12:21 AM
I'll help ya eat; just let me know... :laugh:


My usual was the sirloin with a side of Cat fish. It rocked.

JDSKIDSTEER
07-17-2008, 05:59 AM
I'll help ya eat; just let me know... :laugh:
Will do. MY treat. If you like Cat fish Cat fish cabin in AThens is great and has the best hush puppies in the WORLD. Well it is 4:00 am. Got to hit the road for a early demo of a 50D in Swannee Tennessee.

tbi
07-17-2008, 07:48 AM
If Bobcat put a Tonka bucket on the 190 like Cat does it might be the powerhouse the cat is.:weightlifter:

Nelson M Martin
07-17-2008, 08:26 AM
I might turn my fuel up, but not while I've got this bumper to bumper warranty. You're just talking about turning that little screw on the injection pump, right? The one safety-wired in place...

yes u got it...but there is one on the left end of pump and one on right end of pump.
the one on the right hand end will show u the power u need.
It is advisable to wait out the warranty tho.:nono: :waving: