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ksss
07-14-2008, 11:46 PM
http://www.chicharbine.com/detail.asp?recordid=1000049099&IndID=1&Cat=7


I have never owned a MACK, not overly popular out here. It has the drop axle that I want, the demo body, heavy specs, decent power and a lot of gears.

I sent an email tonight and told him what I was willing to give for the truck assuming it is sound cosmetically and mechanically ($35K). If he says that will buy the truck, I am going to Missoula on Monday. If it checks out I will take it home.

Gravel Rat
07-15-2008, 03:54 AM
Do you really want a Mack ?

Macks are expensive to repair and if you don't have a area where there is lots of Mack trucks for parts it will be $$$$$$. When it comes time to do repairs like U joints they have to be Genuine Mack if you don't have a Mack dealer in the area your in trouble. Brake parts on a Mack has to be Mack parts.

Now with the truck you posted the big problem would be the box. For the material you have in your area its the wrong style box. A 16 foot box is the right length but you want a Western Style box.

The CH-CL series Macks are usually highway tractors or heavy haul tractors. You will find that truck doesn't steer that sharp.

I would keep looking if that was a RD688 or 686 I would say ya go for it because the R Model was a better Vocational truck.

This is a 688

www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1756972&guid=B043EBDCA8014BD08C45417B38182B65

dozerman21
07-15-2008, 05:34 AM
I wouldn't have any problems buying a Mack. They are very popular over here and some guys swear by them. I don't know about the repairs, but like GR said, the older R models are the most popular and that style is seen more on over the road trucks (I think I somewhat agree with GR!:dizzy:) I don't know if that's a big deal, but something to think about. The only knock I hear on the Macks is that some guys complain about a long turning radius. That style on a dump might be worse... I don't know. They are sharp looking trucks though, especially the Granite series. I'd like to upgrade my low boy tractor in a couple of years with a Pete or KW with a Cummins, but I would also consider a Mack. The price on that truck seems pretty fair if it checks out.

ksss
07-15-2008, 09:48 AM
Do you really want a Mack ?

Macks are expensive to repair and if you don't have a area where there is lots of Mack trucks for parts it will be $$$$$$. When it comes time to do repairs like U joints they have to be Genuine Mack if you don't have a Mack dealer in the area your in trouble. Brake parts on a Mack has to be Mack parts.

Now with the truck you posted the big problem would be the box. For the material you have in your area its the wrong style box. A 16 foot box is the right length but you want a Western Style box.

The CH-CL series Macks are usually highway tractors or heavy haul tractors. You will find that truck doesn't steer that sharp.

I would keep looking if that was a RD688 or 686 I would say ya go for it

because the R Model was a better Vocational truck.

This is a 688

www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1756972&guid=B043EBDCA8014BD08C45417B38182B65

Interesting on Mack only parts, that is something to consider. There is a Mack Dealer a 150 miles away or so.

The box is perfect. We do alot of demo and the high lift end gate with elliptical bed is ideal for what we do.

So is this the vocational truck? I new the CH truck was a road truck, this I thought to be a built as a dump truck, truck.

This has to turn tighter than the IH 2500 I have now. That thing has about a 10 degree from center max turning radius.

Overall I would prefer a Pete. Reality is this truck is within budget. If it checks out (I know nothing of Mack) I was going to send it over to the MACK dealer in Missoula and have it looked at. It would be hard to not buy it for 35K assuming they will let it go at that.

Gravel Rat
07-15-2008, 04:20 PM
Oh h*ll no that Mack won't turn sharper than a 2500 International you will need 40 acres to turn that Mack. You need a Ford L9000 if you want turning radius they are the sharpest turning truck when you run 315/80R22.5 rubber. Even with 42565/22.5 super single steers the Fords turn the sharpest.

Any Mack even the set back axle versions steer like CRAP when it comes to tight turning radius.

The 2674 International turns sharp it has a set back front axle. The Sterling trucks turn sharp. The T-800 Kenworth is good the Petes are okay if you get a 359 not a 379.

All in all I have gotten a L-9000 into places other trucks couldn't dream of getting into. The worst truck for turning up there with the Mack is the W-900A model Kenworth.

Western Star 4964 is a good tight turning truck no problems with them except for if you have big feet :laugh:

The Kenworth T450 is a good truck it only comes with a L-10 or 3306 Cat but they turn good.

Here in B.C. we have to run 425 supersingle steers to give us enough front axle weight so that cuts back a little on turning radius.

The one L-9000 I drove that had 315/80R22.5 wheels turned so sharp it looked like the wheels turned 45 degrees :laugh:

The Fords also have the snub nose which makes them good tight turners.

I drove 2674 International dump quite abit it was good just had to watch the nose of the truck.

Bob Horrell
07-15-2008, 04:45 PM
The bulldog on the hood means it is an "all mack" truck - all components are Mack. With a double frame and 44 rears, it will be a tough truck. I have never driven that version Mack so I can't say what the turning radius is. Although I have never owned a Mack, I know a lot of guys that do. Most of them are happy with them especially those around that year vintage.
Do you know what the rear end ratio is? Even with an 18 spd., I would stay away from anything higher than about 3.90. I live and operate in a similar environment as yours and find that my 4.33 gears are perfect, even with a 500hp engine. The lower gears make those slow manuevering activities off road all that much easier.
With 4.33 gears, 11X24.5 tires, and a non-overdrive gearbox, my top speed is 82mph. It cruises at 55mph, right at my engines max torque rpm which is best for mileage. Too many guys don't pay attention to the final drive ratio and end up regretting it. I have a friend who bought a super 10 dump at the same time I bought mine. His has a 3.54 rear end. He has the same high hp engine I have, but it still doesn't help much when manuevering in steep terrain with a full load. He is on his second clutch in 2 years. I drove his truck once and hated it - had to back up a steep hill and around a sharp bend to dump. There was no way to do it without using the clutch. In my truck I could do it without ever touching the clutch.
If the truck checks out, the price is good. If it hasn't been abused, it will most likely give you many miles of trouble free operation. The double frame with the 44 rears is a heavy duty option from Mack. The 44s are much stronger than all the other 46s.
Good luck.

SiteSolutions
07-15-2008, 08:29 PM
I drove a few Macks for a couple different companies and they are tough, tough, tough. Not a Cadillac, but like you said, within budget.

Especially the way that one is optioned up, it sounds like a good truck for any number of activities. Let us know what happens.

ksss
07-15-2008, 09:31 PM
I spoke with the guy this morning. He will come down about a grand (grudgingly). I did not ask on the gear ratio but that is an excellent point. I asked about oil analysis and there was some fuel in the oil. They're going to pull the injectors. The bed is getting painted right now. He did not like the color scheme on the bed. The truck started life in Bend, Or. He talks highly of the truck as you would expect, he drove it back from Or. with a pup. I am very tempted to head up to MT. this weekend anyway, even though this might cost me more than I hoped it would. I was impressed that he had pulled the oil for analysis. He was quick to point out that this was 50K truck last year and he is right. I would like it better if I could get it for 35K but I trying to let go of that number as that is not going to happen.

J. Peterson Grading
07-15-2008, 09:40 PM
Kaiser.

Here in Iowa ALL the big earthmoving/Demo/Trucking guys have macks. They are Heavy and built tough and they always seem to be in use.

I think they are good trucks. But I am just an operator, not a truck driver. But when I was loading them, the macks were always on the job.

J.

KTM
07-15-2008, 10:11 PM
Some of the larger excavators that I know swear by Mack, Some of the prices are reflecting the economy, people that can afford to are going to benefit from great prices on flooded markets and high fuel prices. IF you get the right deal you might be able to use it for a few years and not lose much.

Dirt Digger2
07-15-2008, 10:27 PM
Macks are not any more expensive to repair then Peterbilts...they are a very solid and strong truck, we just got rid of a 1978 Mack because the double frame started to split but that truck would run circles around the Peterbilt that we have now. Mack parts are very easy to come by and the trucks themselves are extremely easy to work on

good point about the gears but our 8LL Pete only tops out around 60mph (i'm not kidding), they are construction trucks, not meant for long travel

RockSet N' Grade
07-15-2008, 10:32 PM
Macks are a rough riding truck. They are built tough and even the guys I know who drive and dislike their ride always comment on their sturdiness. Since this is not a date-night vehicle, the ride factor should not count. You have needed a truck for a long time. If this one is in good shape, with proper gearing and no "hiddens" that are not being disclosed - do it. It is the next logical step for your business - the down time, convenience, efficiency, independance in not having to rely on outside trucks to move equipment or material is worth it assuming you can justify this in your business plan........On a more serious note: Are you going to paint it power tan? :)

Dirt Digger2
07-15-2008, 10:35 PM
only problem is...if you buy this truck then you will need a driver, then you will need more guys, then new and bigger equipment, then a new name, and so on........

RockSet N' Grade
07-15-2008, 10:38 PM
Does it come with fuzzy dice hanging on the windshield somewhere? Neked chick mudflaps? Skull shift knob? Bull balls hanging on the rear end? I think those added options would really impress the Mrs. .

ksss
07-15-2008, 10:48 PM
only problem is...if you buy this truck then you will need a driver, then you will need more guys, then new and bigger equipment, then a new name, and so on........

I have the driver he would love to get out of the 1984 IH, yes I am always in the market for newer bigger equipment unfortunately I cant afford all that I want, I am still working on the name change. How about Valhalla Excavation (Norse mythology, the hall where great warriors meet).

ksss
07-15-2008, 10:50 PM
Does it come with fuzzy dice hanging on the windshield somewhere? Neked chick mudflaps? Skull shift knob? Bull balls hanging on the rear end? I think those added options would really impress the Mrs. .

Between the bull balls and the naked chic mudflaps, I would be divorced and she would get half my Mack!

RockSet N' Grade
07-15-2008, 10:58 PM
Notice I did not say in what vein it would impress her.......My wife told me I would be sleeping in the barn if I came home with any of that contraband on my rig......If ya need the truck go get it.......if you don't buy the truck, go buy $35k worth of krugerrands. The krugerrands will make you more money this coming year than the truck anyways.....

ksss
07-15-2008, 11:08 PM
Notice I did not say in what vein it would impress her.......My wife told me I would be sleeping in the barn if I came home with any of that contraband on my rig......If ya need the truck go get it.......if you don't buy the truck, go buy $35k worth of krugerrands. The krugerrands will make you more money this coming year than the truck anyways.....


Yes that would very likely be a better investment, but kinda hard to haul material with a Krugerrand don't you think. Hell if excavating was a great investment everyone would be doing it, instead it is just the slow ones.:clapping:

RockSet N' Grade
07-16-2008, 12:36 AM
I resemble that remark, although I may be considered "slow", I prefer to consider myself passionate and able to do a craft that most can't. I am doing it on a daily basis with 6 jobs in front of me, I am walking the walk, and for the most part enjoy the challenges, the jobs, and the day. If I had more money than I could spend, I could honestly tell you I would be doing the same thing tomorrow as I did today - working with equipment. Ksss - here's a dreamy thought........buy the dump truck and maybe Mr Got Bucks who is building that $20 mil starter home will feel compelled to fill your truck up with Krugerands as a bonus for doing good work!!

Gravel Rat
07-16-2008, 03:56 AM
Your back will feel the "Break your back Camel Back" springs. Oh ya when it comes time to replace the bushing and other parts on the Camel Back suspension better have a good spring shop in the area.

Good Luck :laugh:

SiteSolutions
07-16-2008, 05:08 AM
Gravel Rat condemning an idea is as strong an endorsement for the plan as anything said by others so far... if he thinks it's bad, it's got to be good!:laugh:

ksss
07-16-2008, 09:27 AM
Gravel Rat condemning an idea is as strong an endorsement for the plan as anything said by others so far... if he thinks it's bad, it's got to be good!:laugh:

Nicely worded.:laugh:

wanabe
07-16-2008, 12:30 PM
I want to know who thinks a R model is better than a CH. We had 6 new CH's over the years, along with 4 R's, one superliner, and one B model. The CH is a much better truck. The one you posted is set up right for a tandem. I am not crazy about the 18 speed, but it is a used truck. Cammelbacks are tough, but you will find out that they are good for a tandem. No air bags to dump, or issues spreading material. I don't know any tandem that is knowen for a smooth ride. We did have several isssues with our 1999 that had the E-7, so you may want to ask about that. But otherwise it looks like a good truck. And mack parts are no higher than any other. My friend has a pete, and they are also expensive. Big bucks for big trucks! Anf the mack is a easy truck to work on. I have turned wrenches on all of them, and for the most part mack trucks are easy to work on. As far as brake parts, what is GR talking about? Shoes are available through napa, along with chambers, which are the most common relaced parts. S cams, slack adjusters, and cam bushings will need to be mack, but they will easly last 6-8 hundred thousand miles if greased. Want more info just ask....that is a good price on the truck!

Gravel Rat
07-16-2008, 02:52 PM
Go ahead and buy the Mack but trust me your not going to really like the truck. Mack is more common on the East Coast and now that Volvo has taken over Mack the dealers are not really interested in the older trucks anymore.

I would rather have a Kenworth T-800 with 3406E or N-14 power with 20 front 46 rears on Hendrickson ext leaf 18spd it would run circles around any Mack.

Where we take a gravel truck your borderline dragging the truck up the road with a machine. Or backing down trucks into sites where touching the brakes does nothing the excavator has to push on the box to stop you from sliding you don't even need to tip the box just let go of the tailgate the material slides out. To get back out you need to be pushed back up the driveway.

Places the driveways are only 10 feet wide backing down you have one shot to make it drop a steer tire over the edge your upside down.

One place I was working on backing the gravel truck along side a deep excavation couldn't see the edge only had inches to play with on the passenger side of the truck. Roll the truck into a 20 foot deep hole wouldn't be good. The driverside of the truck I had a 6 foot deep hole had 12 inches to play with and 6 inches on the driveside.

If you have a truck that don't steer good it is frustrating as h*ll because your constantly adjusting to back into a spot.

Now that the B.C. CVSE changed the laws we need to run 445/65R22.5 rubber for steer tires if we want a 20,000lb front axle rating. Guess what those freaking tires are 2000 dollars each and they will only last 8 months.

The 425/65R22.5 where fine for 16 years for a 20,000lb rating to run the 445s means new wheels and more money. You need minimum 18,000lb steer axle rating for a gravel truck here to haul 15 ton legally.

So to reshod a tandem axle gravel truck now with recapped rubber drives and 445 steers your looking at 8000 dollars.

Anyhow if you want a Mack go ahead and buy a Mack.

Macks sell cheap because not many people want them or they don't on the West Coast. The new Mack Granites are not a big seller because they are having lots of problems with them. Kenworth and Sterling still dominate the new dump truck market.

This is what is in demand here in B.C. so you pay a price for it. Kenworth holds their value. Kenworth also has been bush proven as logging trucks for the last 40 years.

www.heavytruck.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=32586672&pgno=2&srt=1

I do find it funny that you guys think I don't know about trucks I have been around them for years. Everybody I know has the same opinion on a Mack the first comment is why do you want to stare at a dogs ---- all day long.
My mechanic friends I work with all have the same comments working on Mack trucks. One mechanic that has 30 years experience says Macks are the worst to work on.

Maybe on the East Coast you guys don't know what real power is Mack has always been gutless powered trucks unless they are Cat or Cummins power. Mack cabs rot right off the frame being a steel cab worse than the Fords or International. The Cabs are bare bones basic. The camel back suspension is prone to problems and when it comes to fixing it your looking at big bucks.

A truck like this one I would buy put a gravel box on it and its ready to go

www.heavytruck.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=32596928&pgno=2&srt=1

Good Luck on what ever you choose.

hosejockey2002
07-16-2008, 07:30 PM
Macks sell cheap because not many people want them or they don't on the West Coast. The new Mack Granites are not a big seller because they are having lots of problems with them. Kenworth and Sterling still dominate the new dump truck market.

Two of the larger outfits in the Seattle area, Miles Sand & Gravel and Scarsella Construction, each use several newer Mack Granite dump trucks. Never have seen one broken down or being towed.

ksss
07-16-2008, 08:26 PM
I want to know who thinks a R model is better than a CH. We had 6 new CH's over the years, along with 4 R's, one superliner, and one B model. The CH is a much better truck. The one you posted is set up right for a tandem. I am not crazy about the 18 speed, but it is a used truck. Cammelbacks are tough, but you will find out that they are good for a tandem. No air bags to dump, or issues spreading material. I don't know any tandem that is knowen for a smooth ride. We did have several isssues with our 1999 that had the E-7, so you may want to ask about that. But otherwise it looks like a good truck. And mack parts are no higher than any other. My friend has a pete, and they are also expensive. Big bucks for big trucks! Anf the mack is a easy truck to work on. I have turned wrenches on all of them, and for the most part mack trucks are easy to work on. As far as brake parts, what is GR talking about? Shoes are available through napa, along with chambers, which are the most common relaced parts. S cams, slack adjusters, and cam bushings will need to be mack, but they will easly last 6-8 hundred thousand miles if greased. Want more info just ask....that is a good price on the truck!

What specific problems did your 99 have? I planning on going to the bank tommorrow.

ksss
07-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Go ahead and buy the Mack but trust me your not going to really like the truck. Mack is more common on the East Coast and now that Volvo has taken over Mack the dealers are not really interested in the older trucks anymore.

I would rather have a Kenworth T-800 with 3406E or N-14 power with 20 front 46 rears on Hendrickson ext leaf 18spd it would run circles around any Mack.

Where we take a gravel truck your borderline dragging the truck up the road with a machine. Or backing down trucks into sites where touching the brakes does nothing the excavator has to push on the box to stop you from sliding you don't even need to tip the box just let go of the tailgate the material slides out. To get back out you need to be pushed back up the driveway.



Places the driveways are only 10 feet wide backing down you have one shot to make it drop a steer tire over the edge your upside down.

One place I was working on backing the gravel truck along side a deep excavation couldn't see the edge only had inches to play with on the passenger side of the truck. Roll the truck into a 20 foot deep hole wouldn't be good. The driverside of the truck I had a 6 foot deep hole had 12 inches to play with and 6 inches on the driveside.

If you have a truck that don't steer good it is frustrating as h*ll because your constantly adjusting to back into a spot.

Now that the B.C. CVSE changed the laws we need to run 445/65R22.5 rubber for steer tires if we want a 20,000lb front axle rating. Guess what those freaking tires are 2000 dollars each and they will only last 8 months.

The 425/65R22.5 where fine for 16 years for a 20,000lb rating to run the 445s means new wheels and more money. You need minimum 18,000lb steer axle rating for a gravel truck here to haul 15 ton legally.

So to reshod a tandem axle gravel truck now with recapped rubber drives and 445 steers your looking at 8000 dollars.

Anyhow if you want a Mack go ahead and buy a Mack.

Macks sell cheap because not many people want them or they don't on the West Coast. The new Mack Granites are not a big seller because they are having lots of problems with them. Kenworth and Sterling still dominate the new dump truck market.

This is what is in demand here in B.C. so you pay a price for it. Kenworth holds their value. Kenworth also has been bush proven as logging trucks for the last 40 years.

www.heavytruck.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=32586672&pgno=2&srt=1

I do find it funny that you guys think I don't know about trucks I have been around them for years. Everybody I know has the same opinion on a Mack the first comment is why do you want to stare at a dogs ---- all day long.
My mechanic friends I work with all have the same comments working on Mack trucks. One mechanic that has 30 years experience says Macks are the worst to work on.

Maybe on the East Coast you guys don't know what real power is Mack has always been gutless powered trucks unless they are Cat or Cummins power. Mack cabs rot right off the frame being a steel cab worse than the Fords or International. The Cabs are bare bones basic. The camel back suspension is prone to problems and when it comes to fixing it your looking at big bucks.

A truck like this one I would buy put a gravel box on it and its ready to go

www.heavytruck.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=32596928&pgno=2&srt=1

Good Luck on what ever you choose.


I would not have likely chosen a Mack if I was to build the perfect dream truck. Only because I have no experience with them. It comes down to dollars. This truck has the right bed, the right specs, the right miles and I think the right price.

Construct'O
07-16-2008, 09:16 PM
Just thought i would show you a real dumptruck!!!!!!!

It's my Cat Powered Dodge dumptruck:):usflag:

RockSet N' Grade
07-16-2008, 09:31 PM
She's a beauty Constructo. One of the trucks I have been tracking ( and want to buy ) is an old dodge power wagon around that year. I phone the owner ( one owner truck ) at least once a year and chat......origional paint, flawless condition and I love the name....the Blue Goose....
As far as the Mack truck goes at $35k, 6%, 0 down, your payments on a 5 year note are $676.65.

SiteSolutions
07-16-2008, 10:38 PM
GR: Everything you have been around for years you have the same opinion of it!

Examples...

Excavation: "I been around it for years. Contractors are taking any work they get just to make the ten thousand dollar equipment payments and then diesel is 6 canucks a gallon I tell you what all them dumb sumb1tches should just work for the government or the whole western side of canada is going to go out of business and we'll all have to move to vancouver and smoke out with that dude from the barenakedlaides......"

Trucks: "Trucks cost too much, and then there's tires. Why, with inflation, tires will cost you over a million dollars if you are in trucking long enough and get enough flats. Back in 'Nam, I used to have to dodge Charlie while backing my 20 ton gravel truck into a rice paddy; land mines on all four sides. Had to be airlifted in and then there was only 2 centimeters of clearance. I used the force, though, and Obi Wan guided me right in there....."

The Economy: "All these rich people that bought houses are now dumber than sh1t cause nobody can afford to finish them and all this land is bought up and then how can I live on 2000 a month without any wife or kids to supplement my income while I am living at home in a tent in my folks back yard. It's lucky Canada is socialist state or I couldn't get my teeth cleaned and all them free psychiatrist visits to discuss this recurring dream I have about the sjy falling down on me like wet blanket and then there's no trees and no gravel and no jobs and then I wake up......"

Yes, I am enjoying myself, but I have to get some work done...

ksss
07-16-2008, 10:48 PM
GR: Everything you have been around for years you have the same opinion of it!

Examples...

Excavation: "I been around it for years. Contractors are taking any work they get just to make the ten thousand dollar equipment payments and then diesel is 6 canucks a gallon I tell you what all them dumb sumb1tches should just work for the government or the whole western side of canada is going to go out of business and we'll all have to move to vancouver and smoke out with that dude from the barenakedlaides......"

Trucks: "Trucks cost too much, and then there's tires. Why, with inflation, tires will cost you over a million dollars if you are in trucking long enough and get enough flats. Back in 'Nam, I used to have to dodge Charlie while backing my 20 ton gravel truck into a rice paddy; land mines on all four sides. Had to be airlifted in and then there was only 2 centimeters of clearance. I used the force, though, and Obi Wan guided me right in there....."

The Economy: "All these rich people that bought houses are now dumber than sh1t cause nobody can afford to finish them and all this land is bought up and then how can I live on 2000 a month without any wife or kids to supplement my income while I am living at home in a tent in my folks back yard. It's lucky Canada is socialist state or I couldn't get my teeth cleaned and all them free psychiatrist visits to discuss this recurring dream I have about the sjy falling down on me like wet blanket and then there's no trees and no gravel and no jobs and then I wake up......"

Yes, I am enjoying myself, but I have to get some work done...

I am glad you took ten to deliver that gem. The driven truck part in the 'Nam was priceless. You could change your handle and would be indistingushable from GR.

Scag48
07-16-2008, 10:55 PM
Two of the larger outfits in the Seattle area, Miles Sand & Gravel and Scarsella Construction, each use several newer Mack Granite dump trucks. Never have seen one broken down or being towed.

Scarsella does have an @$$ load of those Macks, both in tractor and triaxle form. They have quite the Mack fleet and they run the piss out of those trucks.

wanabe
07-17-2008, 01:53 AM
Go ahead and buy the Mack but trust me your not going to really like the truck. Mack is more common on the East Coast and now that Volvo has taken over Mack the dealers are not really interested in the older trucks anymore.

I would rather have a Kenworth T-800 with 3406E or N-14 power with 20 front 46 rears on Hendrickson ext leaf 18spd it would run circles around any Mack.

Where we take a gravel truck your borderline dragging the truck up the road with a machine. Or backing down trucks into sites where touching the brakes does nothing the excavator has to push on the box to stop you from sliding you don't even need to tip the box just let go of the tailgate the material slides out. To get back out you need to be pushed back up the driveway.

Places the driveways are only 10 feet wide backing down you have one shot to make it drop a steer tire over the edge your upside down.

One place I was working on backing the gravel truck along side a deep excavation couldn't see the edge only had inches to play with on the passenger side of the truck. Roll the truck into a 20 foot deep hole wouldn't be good. The driverside of the truck I had a 6 foot deep hole had 12 inches to play with and 6 inches on the driveside.

If you have a truck that don't steer good it is frustrating as h*ll because your constantly adjusting to back into a spot.

Now that the B.C. CVSE changed the laws we need to run 445/65R22.5 rubber for steer tires if we want a 20,000lb front axle rating. Guess what those freaking tires are 2000 dollars each and they will only last 8 months.

The 425/65R22.5 where fine for 16 years for a 20,000lb rating to run the 445s means new wheels and more money. You need minimum 18,000lb steer axle rating for a gravel truck here to haul 15 ton legally.

So to reshod a tandem axle gravel truck now with recapped rubber drives and 445 steers your looking at 8000 dollars.

Anyhow if you want a Mack go ahead and buy a Mack.

Macks sell cheap because not many people want them or they don't on the West Coast. The new Mack Granites are not a big seller because they are having lots of problems with them. Kenworth and Sterling still dominate the new dump truck market.

This is what is in demand here in B.C. so you pay a price for it. Kenworth holds their value. Kenworth also has been bush proven as logging trucks for the last 40 years.

www.heavytruck.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=32586672&pgno=2&srt=1

I do find it funny that you guys think I don't know about trucks I have been around them for years. Everybody I know has the same opinion on a Mack the first comment is why do you want to stare at a dogs ---- all day long.
My mechanic friends I work with all have the same comments working on Mack trucks. One mechanic that has 30 years experience says Macks are the worst to work on.

Maybe on the East Coast you guys don't know what real power is Mack has always been gutless powered trucks unless they are Cat or Cummins power. Mack cabs rot right off the frame being a steel cab worse than the Fords or International. The Cabs are bare bones basic. The camel back suspension is prone to problems and when it comes to fixing it your looking at big bucks.

A truck like this one I would buy put a gravel box on it and its ready to go

www.heavytruck.canadatrader.com/result/detailinfo.aspx?ID=32596928&pgno=2&srt=1

Good Luck on what ever you choose.


GR, you can have your junk alum cab trucks any day. That way at 6-7 hundred thousand miles, the cab is soo loose that the rattles will drive you nuts. Mack cabs have always been bigger, and have more room than a freightliner, pete, or KW. And a mack is gutless? Just let me know who rates HP at the wheels and who rates it at the flywheel. The mack he is looking at is 487hp at the wheels. Just try to turn your cat up to 550 at the flywheel to keep up and let me know when the bottom end comes apart. The cats will not last at this hp, has been proven over and over. A 3406 will only last 5-6 hundred thousand at that hp. And where do you buy tire at? Supersingles for the front are $7-8 hunded each, and drives are in the $300 area. I could almost get 2 sets for $8000! My family has been in the dumptruck business for 26 years, only hauling localy and to job sites 5 days a week. We had macks, a pete, a couple internationals, and a freightliner. Mack trucks will off road and lug better than any of the above. They run big straight trucks in my area, grosing 130,000LB, on 5 axles. 95% of them are macks with the 460 and 18 speeds. You better go and tell them they are gutless!

wanabe
07-17-2008, 02:05 AM
What specific problems did your 99 have? I planning on going to the bank tommorrow.

Well the first time a plug in the head backed off, and caused a bunch of water to end up in the oil. The plug was not installed correctly at the factory. The second problem was a major fuel leak at the pump, and can not remember what caused that. The third was computer related, and caused the truck to not idle correctly. But that was all at less than 50,000 miles. Was good to go after that. You will not regret a mack. Trust me, I have been arround all of them. Only people who cry about a mack is the mechanics that do not have the skills to pay the bills. Anyone can work on a cummins.I always though a pete or KW was a cadilac, but after driving them and working on them I think otherwise.

Gravel Rat
07-17-2008, 04:45 AM
Like I said good luck with the Mack it will be a upgrade from the Internationals you have.

The Kenworth transfer trucks haul 41 tons of material gross just under 140,000lbs. A tandem axle dump pulling a quad axle transfer or a tridrive pulling a quad axle transfer. Trucks run C-15 Cats 18spds they pull our 10% grade no sissy hills you have east.

On the current market a Mack Granite tandem axle dump sells new for 140,000 a Kenworth T-800 Dump sells for 150-155,000 with C-15 power 550hp.

Even at 120 dollars per hour with a tandem axle dump its still a non profit operation running a dump. Tires are not getting any cheaper the fuel definatly isn't getting any cheaper.

Like I said 11R22.5 recapped drives are 450-500 each a set of 425 Supersingle steers are 1200 each.

When you own a dump you need to beable to do most of the repairs like welding the box together to changing tires. Better buy a decent compressor and a 1 inch impact gun because tire changes are common occurance.

You also hope the 18spd is a "Fuller Roadranger" if its a Mack 18spd get used to can't find it grind it.

Truck says it has 44,000lb axles I wonder if they are Mack axles. The old Mack 38s were tough rear ends being a toploader diff.

The 14,000lb front axle isn't quite heavy enough or it isn't for B.C. use. Lift axles are not legal in B.C. so I don't know much about them and what they can carry.

Most tandem dumps here are licensed for 26,100kgs or 57,540lbs. Allowed 37,400lbs on the drives and 20,000lbs on the steer axle. A 15 ton load is legal but most trucks are slightly overweight.

The Mack E7 which that truck your looking at is powered with is only a 12 litre engine so your really only one step above a L-10 Cummins. the truck has about the same power as a MB4000 Mercedes 450hp. Okay but with a heavy load she is sucking a hind .

You will learn alot about Macks and wishing you bought a Kenworth :laugh:

There is a reason why that 99 Mack is only selling for 39,000.

RockSet N' Grade
07-17-2008, 09:52 AM
GR........s.o.s. different day

Gravel Rat
07-17-2008, 12:41 PM
I was thinking about it that truck wasn't spec'ed as a gravel truck it must have been originally speced for a logging truck.

One thing to think about is to carry a 15 ton load that lift axle will have to be down to stay legally loaded on the front axle.

SiteSolutions
07-17-2008, 02:14 PM
Gravel Rat, you should come down here to Alabama... the weight laws are killing you up there, I don't see how anyone can make a living like that. I got 26.5 tons of pug mix last night, all in one truck, a tandem with helper axle, what we call a "tri-axle" dump truck (although if you count the steer axle there's really four axles.) He might have been on the weight limit, which is 80,000 pounds gross for a tri-axle.

Plus the winters are slightly milder than up there.

Plus housing is cheap.

Gravel Rat
07-17-2008, 03:06 PM
Its all about brakes you can't get enough stopping power. A tandem axle dump loaded up to 15 ton is just enough brakes to stop it.

What you guys don't have in the Eastern and Southern States is 10% down grades that can roast your brakes in seconds. Decend a steep highway grade too fast are you writing your will. I guess you guys don't know what its like dropping 4 gears to decend a 10% grade without a JAKE.

We don't have triaxle dumps but have tridrive dumps which is 3 drive axles they are good for a 73,000lb gross weight or about 22-25 tons of material.

If you want to haul weight then you need a tandem axle dump with a quad axle transfer box. Like I said you can haul 41 tons of material. A transfer set up can go anywhere because you can leave the transfer trailer box on the side of the road pull the transfer box into the truck box head down a driveway.

Lift axles will not survive the curvy roads in B.C. if you want heavier steer axle capacity then you need to buy a tandem tandem. A tandem steer truck is good for 77,000lb gvw. You have two 20,000lb steer axles with 5000 dollars worth of steer tires pealing off.

The tridrive gravel trucks on a hot road will leave tire marks on the curves in the road that look like a brake stand has been done with a hot rod car. A tridrive dump eats drive tires every 3 months if they are hauling lots in hot weather.

That Mack that Kaiser is looking at wouldn't be legal in B.C. to haul any weight because the front axle gvw is way too light. You would have to run 425/65R22.5 supersingle steer tires to be legal. If that truck is only running 11R22.5 tires for steers thats only good for 12,000lbs. You can get 22.5 rubber that can carry the wieght but it doesn't have the width.

The CH series Mack is essentially the replacement for the RW model that used to be commonly powered with the monster Mack V8 (500hp).

Gravel trucks are paid by the hour in areas like where I'am it doesn't matter if its hauling 5 ton to 15 ton a tandem is paid 120 dollars per hour a tandem. Some of the developement sites have had hundreds of dump truck loads of material hauled.

If I was in the market for a dump it would be one like this Ford

www.trucker.com/TruckDetail.aspx?TruckID=1400591&CompanyID=32633

That truck will go into places that most other trucks can't. The Ford L9000s climb out of some nasty spots because the way the trucks are set up.

Construct'O
07-17-2008, 06:48 PM
GR you need to change your ID on here to Gravel Tucks !!!!!!!:laugh::usflag:

bearmtnmartin
07-17-2008, 10:12 PM
I've read back over a few of gravel rats posts. I'm very depressed. I had no idea things were so bad here. I can't believe I have gone for so long, making money, being busy, and building my business, and the whole time the province has been falling down around me. I am going to sell everything and buy a tent.

bobcat_ron
07-17-2008, 10:33 PM
I'm going to start sharing my daily medication with Gravel Rat now.

Gravel Rat
07-17-2008, 11:15 PM
I don't need meds :laugh:

Its just a reality check that the building boom is starting to dissapear around B.C.

The realestate market has taken a good belly flop into the pool and that means the work has died off.

I imagine the excavation contractors are having some sleepless nights with the work all drying up.

I know the realtors are a tad nervous with nothing moving all there is tire kickers.

I would like to be pulling levers again but do I want to be un-employeed "NO".

stuvecorp
07-17-2008, 11:47 PM
Back to the truck...

The front is only 14,600? Out here I think it has to be like 20,000 with the big float tires on the tri/quads. There is some Macks here but I'm with you that a Pete would be better. It seems like Mack just isn't as popular as they use to be. The demo box is nice and with the low sides it is easier to load with the skids. Is the pusher/lift axle steerable? I have heard that Mack parts can be more expensive. Beat 'em down and then get some sub-prime money from RockSet.:clapping:

Gravel Rat
07-18-2008, 12:42 AM
Yes back to the truck subject :laugh:

Like I said the truck sounds like it was spec'ed as a logger not a dump or it might have been spec'ed as a heavier lowbed tractor. Its NOT a converted truck tractor if thats what your worried about.

You have to look at the axle and springs it may be a 18,000/20,000lb front axle so all you would need to do is buy a set of float wheels bolt them on and off you go.

wanabe
07-18-2008, 12:42 AM
Back to the truck...

The front is only 14,600? Out here I think it has to be like 20,000 with the big float tires on the tri/quads. There is some Macks here but I'm with you that a Pete would be better. It seems like Mack just isn't as popular as they use to be. The demo box is nice and with the low sides it is easier to load with the skids. Is the pusher/lift axle steerable? I have heard that Mack parts can be more expensive. Beat 'em down and then get some sub-prime money from RockSet.:clapping:


Ok, what is so much better about a pete? I really want to know, as I drive one at least once a week. They share the same motor, trans, rears, front axle, ext with freightliner, international, kw, ect. So really the only difference is the cab, hood, and suspension, and logo. So I take it that you like the small alum cab? I guess I just don't understand? I have replaced the same parts on pete's as well as macks and they both run about the same(expensive)!

Stillwater
07-18-2008, 12:52 AM
http://www.chicharbine.com/detail.asp?recordid=1000049099&IndID=1&Cat=7


I have never owned a MACK, not overly popular out here. It has the drop axle that I want, the demo body, heavy specs, decent power and a lot of gears.

I sent an email tonight and told him what I was willing to give for the truck assuming it is sound cosmetically and mechanically ($35K). If he says that will buy the truck, I am going to Missoula on Monday. If it checks out I will take it home.


ma. fuel prices it would cost over 750 to fill the tanks but you knew that.....

stuvecorp
07-18-2008, 01:15 AM
I have replaced the same parts on pete's as well as macks and they both run about the same(expensive)!

That is true. As for Petes being better, that is just my .02 worth. I also just like the looks of a 357, I am sure that a Mack can be speced the same. Here there is likely more Freightliner, Kenworth, Pete, Sterling and then Macks.

bearmtnmartin
07-18-2008, 01:24 AM
Its just a reality check that the building boom is starting to dissapear around B.C.

The realestate market has taken a good belly flop into the pool and that means the work has died off.

I imagine the excavation contractors are having some sleepless nights with the work all drying up.


I'm an excavating contractor. I am booked solid until the end of November. My cell phone voice mail fills up every day. Today I took on three new jobs ranging from a few hours to 2 days. I told them all it was going to be at least a couple of weeks before I even have a chance of squeezing them in. The bottom line is, if you have a good track record of providing a necessary service at a good rate, and you take pride in what you do, you can make a good living in any economy. Budgeting for economic downturns is just good business sense. As our building boom comes to an end, the fly by niters and marginal businesses-including a lot of big ones-will fold, and thats the way it should be. Its the way free enterprise and the laws of supply and demand are supposed to work. I must say, I won't miss the idiot I see hauling his off- shore PC80 behind his 4 cylinder Chev Blazer with the hitch scraping the asphalt. By the way, can you find some work for my old Louisville at 110 per hour? Down my way we get 75 for a tandem. Not that I hire it out very often. But I will for 110.....

Gravel Rat
07-18-2008, 02:15 AM
I charge 70 dollars per hour for my F-450. With todays fuel prices if somebody wants something hauled they are going to pay.

The gravel truck rate 4 years ago was 65 dollars per hour with todays rate of 100-120 per hour is bare minimum to make a profit.

Problem with the Lowermainland and Valley area is you have trucks that will haul for undercutted rates.

AWJ Services
07-18-2008, 07:18 AM
Its just a reality check that the building boom is starting to dissapear around B.C.

The funny part about this is that "Building Boom" means there was little or no building at one time, then the building industry really took off and was at levels higher than before, then it slowed too what it was before the "Building Boom" .

So Things are back too normal.:clapping:

Gravel Rat
07-18-2008, 01:55 PM
No things are way way slower than normal. Even small reno jobs are not even happening. People are so cash strapped nobody can afford to do anything.

Any of these guys with the new dump trucks are really scrambling to keep working so they can keep making payments.

snoope
07-18-2008, 07:10 PM
Back to the "Truck"........14,600 fronts is fine if you understand they are light...The "package" fits your needs,the body height,the lift gate and the truck spec will not kill you...

We run ( literally) 14 wheelers,5 R's,8 Granites and one 357 ( senior driver.1st hired; been here 20+ years:) ).along with 5 Petercar tractors,1 Autocar and 3 R-model water wagons.....The Fords ,IHC's and Volvos have come and gone..Dealer support is EXCELLENT.Yes he is now Volvo too:usflag: but up here in the NORTHEAST .you service ALL of your customers or go BROKE...,parts are NOT more expensive and if you grease the Trunions.only thing to replace will be the "Rubbers" under the "Saddles" till 1/2 mill..even with DUMP BUCKETS......

Chirp in if you like but 26 plus years of "Playing in the sand box" gives a GREAT education....Yes the PACCAR products look nice and will last as long if MAINTAINED RIGHT...Read above.we have them and I've owned them BUT for a fleet....MACK just does it better.....

Then again........We might not have "Real trucks"....the last 5 Granites all have Allisons.....I might not be able to do that site work:laugh: or back down that steep drive:laugh: or legally haul 66,000 all day long:laugh:

Snoope back quiet

p.s. Young man,if it feels right and priced right BUY IT.....:waving:

ksss
07-18-2008, 07:45 PM
Back to the "Truck"........14,600 fronts is fine if you understand they are light...The "package" fits your needs,the body height,the lift gate and the truck spec will not kill you...

We run ( literally) 14 wheelers,5 R's,8 Granites and one 357 ( senior driver.1st hired; been here 20+ years:) ).along with 5 Petercar tractors,1 Autocar and 3 R-model water wagons.....The Fords ,IHC's and Volvos have come and gone..Dealer support is EXCELLENT.Yes he is now Volvo too:usflag: but up here in the NORTHEAST .you service ALL of your customers or go BROKE...,parts are NOT more expensive and if you grease the Trunions.only thing to replace will be the "Rubbers" under the "Saddles" till 1/2 mill..even with DUMP BUCKETS......

Chirp in if you like but 26 plus years of "Playing in the sand box" gives a GREAT education....Yes the PACCAR products look nice and will last as long if MAINTAINED RIGHT...Read above.we have them and I've owned them BUT for a fleet....MACK just does it better.....

Then again........We might not have "Real trucks"....the last 5 Granites all have Allisons.....I might not be able to do that site work:laugh: or back down that steep drive:laugh: or legally haul 66,000 all day long:laugh:

Snoope back quiet

p.s. Young man,if it feels right and priced right BUY IT.....:waving:

He repainting the box and maybe the whole truck. I spoke with Mack in Missoula. They will look the truck over for me. figured it would take an hour or so $87.00 The guy that has the truck will drop it off. Well worth even a couple hundred dollars to have a Mack trained tech look over the truck. He will not have it ready until mid next week. He is also lowering the cab protector, thought it looked stupid being up so high. I would agree. I imagine I will be spending about 38K for the truck by the time its over, assuming it gets a clean bill of health.

On the Pete thing, I prefer a Pete due to the cab comfort, personally much more comfortable than a Kenworth IMHO. Your right they all have the same running gear, engines etc. I had a 1990 378 with a 18 speed, 20K fronts, 46K rears, 444 Cummins (never heard much good about that motor but it ran great for us). I used it on a side dump for 5 years. It was just a good running truck, never an issue of any size with it. With Pete it is just a familiararity thing I guess, its not to say they are the best choice for this application.

RockSet N' Grade
07-19-2008, 08:48 AM
I am curious as to what the banks are now requiring for the purchase of anything.......Another good place to look for a truck would be a banks REO inventory. May take a little doing to find their outlets, but their repo rate on trucks has to be on the rise.

snoope
07-19-2008, 10:16 AM
ksss,

Wise decision to have a "Tech" review your purchase.....

If the "Money" fits, why not??

For creature comforts,our "Shop" has found it cheaper to buy " Peterbilt factory" seats from a local dealer ....Eleven of our Macks now have "Petercar" lazy boys in them......makes 10-12 hours a day "at the office" easier....and the newer Granites are as quiet as the Pete tractors.....

Much cheaper to spend $$ 4-500 on a seat and keep a driver ( never mind less $$ spent Chiro-kracker:laugh:) than to retrain one..

Final words.....Good luck with your purchase and if you are "still on the fence"
you could always check out......www.truckpaper.com....put in your specs and be amazed ......there are over a dozen Petes with lowsides and flipper gates.....

Snoope back quiet

coopers
07-19-2008, 02:18 PM
KSSS,

Does possibly getting this truck replace the idea of you wanting to upgrade on a 160 or is that still an option if you come across the right machine?

ksss
07-19-2008, 04:44 PM
KSSS,

Does possibly getting this truck replace the idea of you wanting to upgrade on a 160 or is that still an option if you come across the right machine?

It would likely have to wait unless a real smokin deal came along. My needs for a newer truck out weigh that of updating the 160. There are some good projects on the horizon so we will see what actually happens and what is just pie in the sky.

coopers
07-19-2008, 07:48 PM
very cool! well hopefully this truck turns out for you.

PSDF350
07-19-2008, 09:02 PM
Man gr's crap is everywhere. That mack was most likely built as a heavy hualer (equipment and such). Mack makes a stought truck. May not be the most comfortable, but stought. I would however would look for one with 18 fronts.

ksss
07-19-2008, 09:28 PM
[QUOTE=PSDF350;2426266]Man gr's crap is everywhere. That mack was most likely built as a heavy hualer (equipment and such). Mack makes a stought truck. May not be the most comfortable, but stought. I would however would look for one with 18 fronts.[/QUOT


It is hard to find a truck with low miles, the right bed, drop axle and the right money. Most trucks I have seen with such low miles were much more money. My thought is without the drop, I think it would be more critical. As it is on a 4 axle truck with a 16' bed I think the drop will help take some of the weight off of the fronts. I will be talking to the Mack dealer up there next week and I can ask him about what it would take to up grade the fronts to 20's. If it is just a spring thing, that cant be a big deal. If it it is more involved than that, then it would have stay 14,600.

RockSet N' Grade
07-19-2008, 10:08 PM
While you are at it, ask and see what a new air ride seat would be......that may make a big difference for not alot of money. My guess, installed would be around $500-$600.......

PSDF350
07-19-2008, 10:40 PM
Wow I get about 11 pages when I did this for my area, couple more states. But about the same distance. Anyway heres truck paper with 4 pages of trucks $40,000 and under.

http://www.truckpaper.com/listings/forsale/list.asp?pc=&lat=&lng=&opc=&scf=off&hdnSCFMode=&scfChangeStatus=false&guid=A6D395AF531744D4AB5B8CE4D06758E3&bcatid=27&etid=1&ParentCategoryID=207&CatID=217&mantxt=&mdltxt=&MdlX=Contains&PF=&PT=40000&YF=&YT=&MileFrom=&MileTo=&Feet=&Inches=&LiftGate=All&EventBD=&EventED=&VIN=&CabType=&Cond=Both&Engine=&HorsePowerMin=&HorsePowerMax=&FrontAxleLbs=&FrontAxleLbsOther=&RearAxleLbs=&RearAxleLbsOther=&Transmission=&SleeperSize=&MaxSleeperSize=&SleeperType=&Suspension=&keywords=&Name=&Cty=&st=Idaho&st=Montana&st=Oregon&st=Washington&LS=&SO=2&GroupSort=&beginsearch=Search

RockSet N' Grade
07-19-2008, 10:53 PM
PSD......now go through those trucks and look for one with high lift gate, eliptical bed in good condition, drop axle and view the general condition of those trucks and the field just got narrowed down to maybe 2 trucks......but you are right, trucks for sale is on the rise.

PSDF350
07-19-2008, 11:12 PM
It is definitly a gruelling process trying to find the right truck. But just becuase something is old, don't mean worn out. So just becuase something has age don't let that stop you from at lest looking. I was looking at a 72 (didn't know age when stopped to look) autocar. Has a 425hp cummins 58 rears 20 fronts. 10 wheel 13' bed. If just for me to pull equipment and what not for myself, I think it would be a well spent $10,000 (12,500 asking price). Thing was in nice shape considering it is 36 years old. Hell I think even the paint is original.

Bob Horrell
07-19-2008, 11:21 PM
I thought about upgrading to a 20K front end when I first got my super 10, but am glad that I didn't. The drop axle takes the load off the front end when loaded, and running the standard tires on the front when empty is a lot better. The super single front tires are hard on the steering gear (some 20K front ends from the factory have dual steering gear pumps), they are harder to balance, and they are really expensive. If I were running 8-10 hrs a day in and out of job sites with heavy loads, it would probably make a difference. But for what I do, the smaller front axle/tires works well and has no hassles. I run 24.5 michelins up front and the truck drives and steers like a dream.
Most drop axles have a pressure dial where you can control the amount of air in the bags on the axle and therefore the amount of weight they carry. I don't think you will be disappointed.

Gravel Rat
07-20-2008, 12:05 AM
If you really want to run regular steers you really shouldn't run 11R tires because they don't pack the weight

A 11R-22.5 H rating tire carries 13,200lbs used in pairs
A 11R-24.5 H rating tire carries 14,320lbs
A 315/80R22.5 L rating carries 18,180lbs which is what your supposed to use if you don't want to use 425/65R22.5 rubber which carries 22.800lbs.

You don't balance supersingle tires your not driving the dump truck on the autobahn. Most heavy trucks have double steering boxes anyhow or a assist cylinder on the passenger side. Supersingle tires are no big deal they are common as mud in B.C. every gravel truck on the road has them we need them to be legal. Usually get 6 months out of them depending on the driver.

So what happens when the lift axle gives out which it can happen anything can and now you have too much weight on your front axle bending it or stressing it any how you look at it.

When your offroad you want to lift the drop axle so you have better manueverablity.

Here is a truck I would choose

www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1801273&guid=A6D395AF531744D4AB5B8CE4D06758E3

CAT powered
07-20-2008, 12:21 AM
That truck fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. The push axle isn't there supporting any real weight. It is just there to make him legal. Plus they really aren't very complicated. On my truck it is just an airbag at the end of a lever attached to the axle. Unless the airbag was to somehow leak so much that it wouldn't inflate at all the axle would still function. I've had guys that have forgotten to put down the push axle and it didn't cause any damage. I've heard of companies who have had trucks run every day all day without the push axle down and it didn't cause any damage to the trucks.

And why would he want that Peterbilt? It's almost 10 years older than the Mack.

Proudly running a 1987 Mack DM that I bought NEW, sold, and bought again this year and am now in the process of restoring it to its original condition. :cool2:

I have a guy driving it every day hauling screened topsoil and it hasn't caused him any problems yet. The body needs replacing though because the last owners hauled asphalt with it and got 4,000 pounds of it stuck in the bed. That truck has under 350 horsepower and it pulls harder than a lot of the new trucks I've run.

As for the issue of Macks being uncomfortable the only issue with comfort in my 87 is it has no air conditioning. If it had a passenger the passenger wouldn't be very comfortable since their seat is bolted to the floor, but the driver's air-ride seat makes for a nice ride.

Gravel Rat
07-20-2008, 12:32 AM
DMs are a totally different beast compared to a CH. The DM with its offset cab and heavier constructed truck it was designed for mixer use originally but work good for dumps.

The old E6 engine with a 12spd is a good combination not big power but works.

Here is a old DM notice the cab :laugh:

www.truckpaper.com/listings/detail.aspx?OHID=1722227&guid=5C97EE7BA78847A8BB1E7E754F6CBA8F

stuvecorp
07-20-2008, 12:43 AM
You don't balance supersingle tires your not driving the dump truck on the autobahn. Most heavy trucks have double steering boxes anyhow or a assist cylinder on the passenger side. Supersingle tires are no big deal they are common as mud in B.C. every gravel truck on the road has them we need them to be legal. Usually get 6 months out of them depending on the driver.

I like the idea of the super singles, most people are not in favor of the idea though. How much weight can they actually save you? Have seen one company running super singles on their truck and end dumps. Concrete trucks here have run supers and don't hear any complaining.

CAT powered
07-20-2008, 12:58 AM
I've got a 1990 CH613 for pulling around my 5 walking floor trailers (So I can leave them and let clients load them and then pick them up later) and 1999 Eager Beaver 35 ton RGN as well as a 30 yard dump trailer. Even when the truck is literally within pounds of its 80,000 pound gross weight while pulling 100 yards of leaves or wood in one of the walking floors it still pulls great. :weightlifter: Personally I prefer the DM to the CH, but that is probably because the DM reminds me of when it was new. I bought the CH two years ago for $9,500. It has a 350HP engine in it. It has near a million miles on it (I think. The odometer stopped working.) and the only thing I've done to it is change all the lights out to LEDs and I lent it to a local shop so they could fit up an aftermarket intercooler so once they fit a new one to the CH models they put a new one in for me for free. Then a little while ago I had to put a new transmission in. I got a brand new trans from a local shop and had it back on the road within 3 days of losing the old trans.

Long story short: There is a reason their hood ornament is a bulldog. Those Macks are great trucks.

Gravel Rat
07-20-2008, 01:02 AM
We only use supersingles for steers not drives. Supersingles are needed for steer tires or your not hauling anything in a dump truck. The CVSE looks at the tire width thats what counts for weight carrying. A 315/80R22.5 tire has the load carrying capacity but its not wide enough. It is so many pounds per inch of tread width I forget the number.

stuvecorp
07-20-2008, 01:18 AM
We call the big steer tires 'floats', don't recall what the size is - just big. You can get one big tire that replaces two 11/22.5 tires for the drives or on the trailers. Do they run those in Canada?

Gravel Rat
07-20-2008, 01:43 AM
The low profile super single drives are not used much they are expensive and if you get a flat on a drive axle your stuck. Dual wheels are still prefered for drives. Supersingles are required for steer axle use as I mentioned.

You factor in to replace your dual wheel drives with supersingle drives you have to buy new wheels at 1000 each then you have another 1500 dollar each tire.

ksss
07-20-2008, 01:20 PM
I like the idea of the super singles, most people are not in favor of the idea though. How much weight can they actually save you? Have seen one company running super singles on their truck and end dumps. Concrete trucks here have run supers and don't hear any complaining.


I ran super singles on the front of my 378 for a while. It looked cool but in off road conditions the front end slide around more and of course the cost was ridiculous. My driver didn't like them so we pulled them off and put the 11's back on.

Gravel Rat
07-20-2008, 07:11 PM
On some sites around here if you had regular steers on the front they would sink out of sight :laugh:

I guess its what ever you get used to but I won't drive a loaded gravel truck with regular steers. Take a corner and you can feel the tire rolling on its sidewall no thanks.

With our new regs the 445/65R22.5 supersingles will be manditory if you want to pack legally 15 ton. At almost 2 grand each its going to get costly but what can you do except for jacking up the rate, 150 dollars per hour isn't too far off.

snoope
07-21-2008, 08:56 PM
Comparing a DM or B to a CH:laugh::laugh:....Why do you think Mack HAD to INVENT the Granite,CH and even the Vision.......everyone else caught up....

If you sit with "The Proper" sales person...any manufacturer can create a truck that will last.......How they treat and SERVICE you creates the "reputation"....:waving:


Gravelrat,

The tire "question" depends on where you run......In NH we can run 12/24.5 on all 10 and get our gvw,64k ( with factory heavy springs....18/20k front 44/46/50 rears) while in Florida I ran 20k front-floats/46 k rears-24.5 and got 70,000 gvw.....but the body was only a foot longer.......15' Nh 16' Florida.....

Now on T/T's forget it.....NH ; tandem tractor ,tri-axle trailer 109k with permits,25 ton load --Florida; single axle tractor/Florida spec ( 22'/24' tub 28' frame) trailer " bridge formula" and I still got 25 ton....with gvw 73,280....

Spec and buy for your needs.........you can take everyones knowledge and hopefully find a truck that will serve you well,make you money and maybe allow you to buy more NEW TOYS:walking:

Snoope back quiet

Scag48
07-22-2008, 01:08 AM
A lot of guys run super singles on their rigs out here, but I've noticed it's typically preference. Most of the guys running big Petes or KW's with at least one lift axle run the supers, most other guys run a standard front. It's almost guaranteed if they're running a truck + pup and/or 2 lift axles, they have super singles. I'd wager for the flotation off road, things tend to get a little moist in the winter here. A buddy of mine had a nice set of wheels and super singles on a '78 KW W900 short front, that truck looked badass. Cummins 400, single stage loud as hell jake, and some old mufflers, what an awesome truck.

stuvecorp
07-22-2008, 01:51 PM
A lot of guys run super singles on their rigs out here, but I've noticed it's typically preference. Most of the guys running big Petes or KW's with at least one lift axle run the supers, most other guys run a standard front. It's almost guaranteed if they're running a truck + pup and/or 2 lift axles, they have super singles. I'd wager for the flotation off road, things tend to get a little moist in the winter here. A buddy of mine had a nice set of wheels and super singles on a '78 KW W900 short front, that truck looked badass. Cummins 400, single stage loud as hell jake, and some old mufflers, what an awesome truck.

Now you are going to share a picture of said truck...

Scag48
07-22-2008, 07:45 PM
Now you are going to share a picture of said truck...

I wish I had one. My buddy sold the rig, so now I can't even go out and score one in the next couple days. The box on the truck was pretty rough, but the rest of it was nice.

ksss
07-24-2008, 11:27 PM
Mack evaluation:

I spoke with the Mack mechanic and the reseller. He had the list of items that needed attention. Nothing major just a list of odds and ends. He said that he would address all of them. Price is as follows. $38.5K with just the truck bed painted and 39.5 if he paints the entire truck grey. I basicly told him that I would take the truck. He has some guy from Seattle who wants to come out and look at it (Scag?). I told him then that I would take the truck (better not sell it out from under me after paying (have not yet paid but you know what I mean) for a truck inspection.

coopers
07-24-2008, 11:35 PM
Mack evaluation:

. He has some guy from Seattle who wants to come out and look at it (Scag?).

It should be me! But it's not! :(

Gravel Rat
07-25-2008, 12:15 AM
Why bother paint the truck it looks like its has decent paint on the truck already. Charging 10 grand to repaint the whole truck isn't worth it.

The outside of the box done properly would be white blasted then etching primer then a good 2 part paint. The cab can be painted with any automotive paint. If the body work is okay a good scuff and spray the cab is done.

Scag48
07-25-2008, 12:42 AM
You caught me, I've had $40K burning a hole in my pocket for the last 10 years. I told the guy I'd give him $42K just to keep it from going to Idaho.

stuvecorp
07-25-2008, 01:03 AM
Mack evaluation:

I spoke with the Mack mechanic and the reseller. He had the list of items that needed attention. Nothing major just a list of odds and ends. He said that he would address all of them. Price is as follows. $38.5K with just the truck bed painted and 39.5 if he paints the entire truck grey. I basicly told him that I would take the truck. He has some guy from Seattle who wants to come out and look at it (Scag?). I told him then that I would take the truck (better not sell it out from under me after paying (have not yet paid but you know what I mean) for a truck inspection.

Sounds good, how soon could you start hauling?

Gravel Rat
07-25-2008, 01:39 AM
I thought he was buying the Mack for his own hauling on the jobs he is working on and a truck to move his Case excavator with.

ksss
08-01-2008, 09:51 PM
Well its a done deal. Said MACK is sitting in my yard. Just got back form Missoula, MT.

A couple quick notes.

460 hp will flatten out any mountain pass.

That truck turns like a ATV compared to my 2500 IH.

I did not find the ride uncomfortable at all. Its not an 8 bag KW, but hardly uncomfortable, atleast not on the Interstate.

Temp never hit 180 degrees, alt. might be over charging just abit. The temp gauges on the drives doesn't work.

AC blows cold.

It was bone dry and it took like 75 gallons. I have between 3/4 and a half a tank of fuel, assuming that is accurate, not bad for that much power. It was like 325 miles, door to door.

Very tight truck, so far so good.

One last point I didn't get an anal exam from MT. DOT or Idaho DOT. I need to buy a lotto ticket.

CAT powered
08-01-2008, 09:57 PM
Glad to see that you decided to buy the truck. I don't think you'll be disappointed. You need to find this thread in 6 months or a year and post with your thoughts about the truck once you've had it a while.

KTM
08-01-2008, 10:23 PM
congrats! I hope to someday upgrade to a truck like that.

coopers
08-01-2008, 10:29 PM
YAY! Congrats.

stuvecorp
08-01-2008, 10:35 PM
Way cool.:clapping:

RockSet N' Grade
08-01-2008, 10:52 PM
Only problem I see is that you stopped in Potato Land when you should have kept drivin' in down here to Angel Chap's Land where it would find a nice new home. If you don't like it, I got first right of refusal.......

Gravel Rat
08-01-2008, 11:06 PM
Its good to hear you got the truck it will be a big upgrade from the manure spreaders aka International you have :laugh:

The test of the Mack power is put 15 ton in the truck and see how well it does. I don't know if the engine has a true JAKE the Dynatard system Mack uses doesn't do much.

The key to keep a Mack from riding bad is try keep good drive tires on it. A out of round drive tire that starts thumping makes the ride rough. I used to drive a Mack with solid walking beam suspension.

It will be curious to see how well the truck works for you :drinkup:

Scag48
08-01-2008, 11:23 PM
Before you know it, you're going to have to buy some real machines to go with that real truck. Probably Cat, nothing else will keep up with that rig. :drinkup: Congrats on the buy.

Gravel Rat
08-01-2008, 11:30 PM
A triaxle tag trailer will be the next thing he needs.

RockSet N' Grade
08-01-2008, 11:33 PM
The next thing he needs is a four letter word with clients that pay promptly or pay at all.....

Gravel Rat
08-01-2008, 11:48 PM
It is no different here h*ll contractors have to visit the people that owe them money at dinner hour and harrass them to get paid. Another tatic is see them in the grocery store and ask them when they are going to pay their bill.

Most contractors have outstanding bills they can't pay because they haven't been paid for months for the jobs they have done.

Gravel hauling is all by the hour if the homeowner doesn't want to pay the 100 dollars per hour the truck isn't moving. The cost of fuel isn't going down with it currently sitting at 5.88 a gallon for diesel and truck tires at 500 each.

RockSet N' Grade
08-02-2008, 09:53 PM
So Ksss........I assume you spent the day inspecting, washing, waxing, cleaning and massaging your new toy.......How does it look underneath? Did you add the neked chica mud flaps to impress yer wife? Fuzzy dice? How does it look under the hood after a little run from Big Sky Country to Potato Land?

Junior M
08-03-2008, 08:32 AM
well lets see some pics of it all cleaned up and shined up! with all your added potato land accessories!

RockSet N' Grade
08-03-2008, 08:21 PM
Ksss, have you fixed your camera yet? Still waiting on pics of that bull-dog.......

wanabe
08-03-2008, 09:51 PM
Don't let GR worry you about power issues. My friend has a 2000 CH613 with the 460 and 18 speed. He brought it out to my farm a couple years back, pulling a 50 ton trailking detach and a kobelco 210. He was able to up shift pulling the hoe/trailer going up some very steep hills. This was off road in the soft pasture. So you will have no power problems. Macks have very good torque and that is what gets it done. If you have any questions/problems let me know.

Gravel Rat
08-03-2008, 11:47 PM
You guys are not used to power a Mack 12 litre engine is no where near what a N-14 or 3406E which was used in other brand trucks the same year.

The test of the truck is loaded to max licensed gvw.

The old Mack should do the work KSSS needs to do with it. The truck will probably spend more time moving equipment

stuvecorp
08-04-2008, 12:08 AM
So Ksss........Did you add the neked chica mud flaps to impress yer wife? Fuzzy dice?

That's what we are all waiting for, right:dancing: