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View Full Version : How well are the new Case series 3 cabs sealed?


ccstrebe
07-16-2008, 02:13 AM
I need to get a new unit and my local dealer don't know and I don't have time to drive 8 hours round trip to the next closest dealer. Just looking at specs and websites I'm realy torn between the Case series 3 450CT and a Cat 297C.

All opinions appreciated.

ksss
07-16-2008, 10:34 AM
I need to get a new unit and my local dealer don't know and I don't have time to drive 8 hours round trip to the next closest dealer. Just looking at specs and websites I'm realy torn between the Case series 3 450CT and a Cat 297C.

All opinions appreciated.


They have 3-4 cabbed units in up here, but I have not had time to demo one yet. Now is a great time for me to demo one as it is super dry and dusty and running the Preparator in this conditions is a good test of anyones cab.

How do you like the Level Best grader attachment?

I have just put together a laser grader myself. Actually CAT did, the grader is from Southern Precision.

What are your thoughts on the 06-450 CT?

The Series 3 machines have even more torque than the previous models, the 450 Series 3 must really be an animal.

bobcat_ron
07-16-2008, 10:57 AM
I need to get a new unit and my local dealer don't know and I don't have time to drive 8 hours round trip to the next closest dealer. Just looking at specs and websites I'm realy torn between the Case series 3 450CT and a Cat 297C.

All opinions appreciated.

Didn't I get a phone call from you??

ccstrebe
07-16-2008, 11:05 AM
Didn't I get a phone call from you??

Yes, that was me.

ccstrebe
07-16-2008, 11:32 AM
How do you like the Level Best grader attachment?

I spent a long time researching out all of the available box graders and felt the Level Best was the best out there because the blade is moved by the hydrolics not the wheels. I started out with a six footer and upgraded to a seven footer when I bought the 450ct. Also the Level Best is a push pull box grader. I actually looking at their new one that has dual plane capabilities.

What are your thoughts on the 06-450 CT?

One of the reasons I'm torn between the Case and the Cat is beacause the 450CT is built like a tank and I like their engineering and with thier radial linkage set-up on the bucket/arms your cycle time on scoop/dump are very fast.

I'm perfectly happy with the one I got but for one exception, the enclosed cab is not so enclosed. In dusty conditions you might as well not have an enclosed cab beacause you will be just as dirty as if you didn't have an enclosed cab. I wouldn't even be looking at a new one if it wasn't for this problem.

AWJ Services
07-16-2008, 05:29 PM
I'm perfectly happy with the one I got but for one exception, the enclosed cab is not so enclosed. In dusty conditions you might as well not have an enclosed cab beacause you will be just as dirty as if you didn't have an enclosed cab. I wouldn't even be looking at a new one if it wasn't for this problem.

I am not sure if any skid steer cab is sealed and actually works.LOL

YellowDogSVC
07-16-2008, 06:27 PM
I am not sure if any skid steer cab is sealed and actually works.LOL

NO COMMENT!

ksss
07-16-2008, 09:37 PM
[QUOTE=ccstrebe;2420894]How do you like the Level Best grader attachment?

I spent a long time researching out all of the available box graders and felt the Level Best was the best out there because the blade is moved by the hydrolics not the wheels. I started out with a six footer and upgraded to a seven footer when I bought the 450ct. Also the Level Best is a push pull box grader. I actually looking at their new one that has dual plane capabilities.

What are your thoughts on the 06-450 CT?

One of the reasons I'm torn between the Case and the Cat is beacause the 450CT is built like a tank and I like their engineering and with thier radial linkage set-up on the bucket/arms your cycle time on scoop/dump are very fast.


The cycle times on the 450 are unreal. If I did not need the lift capacity of the 465 I would have one. Both of mine are cabbed units and I cant disagree with your call on the cab. Like Yellowdog and BC Ron have done or did do with their CATs, I had to seal it up myself. I have yet to hear a comment on the CASE cab in the series 3 hopefully they got it right. I am almost afraid to try one, because if it actually seals I am gonna wanna trade my machines.
I'm perfectly happy with the one I got but for one exception, the enclosed cab is not so enclosed. In dusty conditions you might as well not have an enclosed cab beacause you will be just as dirty as if you didn't have an enclosed cab. I wouldn't even be looking at a new one if it wasn't for this problem.

Mine is dual plane as well. I priced level best on their dual plane system it was like 28K. I could not see that in the system.

iron peddler
07-16-2008, 09:47 PM
well ksss i would be shocked if there is a sealed and pressurized cab out there for a ssl.....there is alot of variables on a ssl that don't sit well in that small of a machine........i sell Cat, and i do not promote a sealed cab......i questioned it when they brought it up, and so far it is better than what we had before, but is not sealed, i suggest caulking the side windows on any machine will help, but it will also show you the next weakest spot in the cab.

bobcat_ron
07-16-2008, 10:01 PM
I am not sure if any skid steer cab is sealed and actually works.LOL

Another hour of sweeping dust today and mine is still dust free, the engine air filter, now that was jammed tight.

Construct'O
07-16-2008, 10:09 PM
While at St. Joe checking to to talk to Cat saleman that doesn't seem to spend much time in the office:)

I gave up waiting after the second trip back to talk and went across the street to the New Holland dealer and checked out the new cab on the New Hollands.

They seem pretty tight as what i could see and just sitting in it.One thing i noticed was the side windows where they slide open had a rubber sealer that looked to be tight against the window.

In Cat cabs the sliding windows just has some fuzzy weather stripping :rolleyes:that looked to not be very good for sealing.

That was one difference i noticed in the two cabs.:usflag:

ccstrebe
07-16-2008, 10:15 PM
KSSS

I never heard of Southern Precision so I went to their website. Their unit looks like the one bobcat sells or at least the same type. What I dont care about that type is the fact that the blade is moved up and down by raising and lowering the wheels. That is not how a real grader works. The level best blade is suspended between the fixed front wheels and the skid steer. Also the front wheels on the level best will float over uneven ground where as the others the front wheels are fixed which creates alot of un needed flex and wont follow the ground the same as the level best. Alot more moving parts on the level best that's why they cost more.

ksss
07-16-2008, 11:00 PM
[QUOTE=iron peddler;2421595]well ksss i would be shocked if there is a sealed and pressurized cab out there for a ssl.....there is alot of variables on a ssl that don't sit well in that small of a machine........i sell Cat, and i do not promote a sealed cab......i questiweroned it when they brought it up, and so far it is better than what we had before, but is not sealed, i suggest caulking the side windows on any machine will help, but it will also show you the next weakest spot in the cab.[/QU

Point taken, I guess it comes down to the OEMs at least making an effort. I can speak from the CASE prospective. The prior Series 3 machines are a sorry excuse for a cab, much like everyone elses. Atleast with the pressurized cabs some more effort and money has been put into making these machines more comfortable.

ksss
07-16-2008, 11:04 PM
Another hour of sweeping dust today and mine is still dust free, the engine air filter, now that was jammed tight.


I need to take pictures of the aspirator system on my 440. I **** you not, I have twice replaced my air filter in 1000 hours. I am in thick dust at least half the year. There is so much dirt coming out of my exhaust that it has sandblasted the inside of my exhaust pipe. It is a sweet set up. Prior to this machine have replaced or pounded out filters daily sometimes even more than that. If your interested let me know and I take pictures of it. It is very simple and should be fairly easy to copy.

Digdeep
07-16-2008, 11:05 PM
well ksss i would be shocked if there is a sealed and pressurized cab out there for a ssl.....there is alot of variables on a ssl that don't sit well in that small of a machine........i sell Cat, and i do not promote a sealed cab......i questioned it when they brought it up, and so far it is better than what we had before, but is not sealed, i suggest caulking the side windows on any machine will help, but it will also show you the next weakest spot in the cab.

Someone will get it right.......eventually.

bobcat_ron
07-16-2008, 11:08 PM
I need to take pictures of the aspirator system on my 440. I **** you not, I have twice replaced my air filter in 1000 hours. I am in thick dust at least half the year. There is so much dirt coming out of my exhaust that it has sandblasted the inside of my exhaust pipe. It is a sweet set up. Prior to this machine have replaced or pounded out filters daily sometimes even more than that. If your interested let me know and I take pictures of it. It is very simple and should be fairly easy to copy.

Fire up that camera and git-r-dun.

ksss
07-16-2008, 11:11 PM
KSSS

I never heard of Southern Precision so I went to their website. Their unit looks like the one bobcat sells or at least the same type. What I dont care about that type is the fact that the blade is moved up and down by raising and lowering the wheels. That is not how a real grader works. The level best blade is suspended between the fixed front wheels and the skid steer. Also the front wheels on the level best will float over uneven ground where as the others the front wheels are fixed which creates alot of un needed flex and wont follow the ground the same as the level best. Alot more moving parts on the level best that's why they cost more.


Interesting point. The SP box has a linkage at the coupler with a shock absorber type system that allows the box to float over uneven terrain. It seems to work real well. Were not done with the learning phase of this thing yet however. It seems to hold a tight grade. .25 in .75 type roadbase so that makes me happy.

qps
07-17-2008, 12:08 AM
Isn't it funny that almost NOTHING has been said about the new CASE machines and there NEW cab...I thought it was the best thing to come out since sliced bread.......Heck...I was even ready to trade my 297C in on one.....(even at half the price I paid for it) :laugh:.........I love these (drive by post)....I get in....bamm....I'm gone..............later........

iron peddler
07-17-2008, 12:55 PM
While at St. Joe checking to to talk to Cat saleman that doesn't seem to spend much time in the office



i am not sure if i should be hurt or happy that i am out trying to help my customers in the field..... if i would have known you were going to be town i could of been around Construct O!!! :drinkup:

srt
08-04-2008, 10:58 PM
I read the posts about sealing cabs from dust. I do land clearing and asphalt milling and dust is a constant problem. I have done some work on my CASE 90XT and think it is going to work . I pressurized the cab and put a enginair pre cleaner in the engine compartment. If the precleaner doesn't work I have ordered a aspirator set up like ksss has on his 440. It will be a custom install but shouldn't't be a problem. (thanks for the pics ksss) I will be giving it a real test this week as I am starting a clearing job, about 18 acres. A lot of cedar and very dry here in South Texas.

BIGBEN2004
08-05-2008, 08:57 PM
How has the longevity been on the CTL's from Case? Last I heard they were having final drive problems and some frame strength issues. Has anyone bought one and put some good hard digging hours on one yet? The reason I ask is the company I used to work at is tire of having nothing but problems with their Cat line up of skid loaders. Now as we speak 8 out of their 9 machines are in the shop. They just can't hold up to the heavy demands of dirt work. They are demoing a 450CT Case tomorrow and I told them they need to compare it to a Takeuchi TL150 and they will be sold on the TL150.

Tigerotor77W
08-05-2008, 09:16 PM
I used to work at is tire of having nothing but problems with their Cat line up of skid loaders. Now as we speak 8 out of their 9 machines are in the shop.

What company, and what issues are they having with what models of what year?

BIGBEN2004
08-05-2008, 09:30 PM
They compose of 262's 246's and 216's all B models with the Loegering VTS track systems on them. They have already replaced the entire lineup after they traded all their tire machines in on all track models like the 267's 277's and 287's but quickly traded back in on tire machines. The operators are very very very hard on the equipment and most of their track machines were not lasting longer then 200 Hrs before total track destruction. Now they are having engine and the Loegering VTS track issues that are making them angry. They purchase allot of Cat equipment and for the most part have very good luck with them except for the Skid loader line up. The company's name is Valley Excavating located in Hagerstown MD. Our local Cat dealer is Alban equipment.http://www.albancat.com/home/

I am sure if I could convince them to wait for the new CTL from Cat they might wait but for now they want to try other options and I recommend Takeuchi since they have a unbelievable great track record for reliability and strength. What do you recommend? I would hate for them to buy Case and have allot of issues.

bobcat_ron
08-05-2008, 09:35 PM
They compose of 262's 246's and 216's all B models with the Loegering VTS track systems on them. They have already replaced the entire lineup after they traded all their tire machines in on all track models like the 267's 277's and 287's but quickly traded back in on tire machines. The operators are very very very hard on the equipment and most of their track machines were not lasting longer then 200 Hrs before total track destruction. Now they are having engine and the Loegering VTS track issues that are making them angry. They purchase allot of Cat equipment and for the most part have very good luck with them except for the Skid loader line up. The company's name is Valley Excavating located in Hagerstown MD. Our local Cat dealer is Alban equipment.http://www.albancat.com/home/

I am sure if I could convince them to wait for the new CTL from Cat they might wait but for now they want to try other options and I recommend Takeuchi since they have a unbelievable great track record for reliability and strength. What do you recommend? I would hate for them to buy Case and have allot of issues.

Well there you go, it's not the operators, it's the VTS that tears them apart, the CTL/MTL have more power in the drives not only in the deep gear reduction, but just the traingle of the track, the VTS is still an oval track, it's much harder to move the track when it's oval.
That was the concept behind Cat's High Drives back in the 80's.

ksss
08-06-2008, 07:54 PM
How has the longevity been on the CTL's from Case? Last I heard they were having final drive problems and some frame strength issues. Has anyone bought one and put some good hard digging hours on one yet? The reason I ask is the company I used to work at is tire of having nothing but problems with their Cat line up of skid loaders. Now as we speak 8 out of their 9 machines are in the shop. They just can't hold up to the heavy demands of dirt work. They are demoing a 450CT Case tomorrow and I told them they need to compare it to a Takeuchi TL150 and they will be sold on the TL150.


The only machine that I am aware of that had issues was the 445. They started using the 435 loaders and they are too light for the heavier 445. The series 3 machines went back to the 465/95XT loader arms. Operator error aside you will not have durability issues with a CASE skid steer.

KTM
08-06-2008, 10:26 PM
A friend of mine is A Case tech and has replaced many final drives on CASE CTL'S. He has also said he has replaced head gaskets on every 420 they have sold, he said the series 3 updated the engine though.

ksss
08-06-2008, 11:40 PM
A friend of mine is A Case tech and has replaced many final drives on CASE CTL'S. He has also said he has replaced head gaskets on every 420 they have sold, he said the series 3 updated the engine though.


The 420 engine has been replaced. As has the 435 both needed it.

Most of the 400 series machines have a 3 year/3K hour powertrain warranty backing them. I am told that the Series 3 machines are to have the same warranty. Nobody else is backing their machines like that (at no cost to the purchaser).

stuvecorp
08-07-2008, 12:08 AM
The 420 engine has been replaced. As has the 435 both needed it.

Most of the 400 series machines have a 3 year/3K hour powertrain warranty backing them. I am told that the Series 3 machines are to have the same warranty. Nobody else is backing their machines like that (at no cost to the purchaser).

And yet folks can't see the light...

allinearth
08-07-2008, 08:36 AM
Well there you go, it's not the operators, it's the VTS that tears them apart, the CTL/MTL have more power in the drives not only in the deep gear reduction, but just the traingle of the track, the VTS is still an oval track, it's much harder to move the track when it's oval.
That was the concept behind Cat's High Drives back in the 80's.

My case 440 has no problem running the vts. The cat 242 on the other hand whined and groaned to move the tracks. Real work for me is moving topsoil and other materials around a site and grading. I don't do any grinding or mowing. Maybe the hydraulics of cat are better suited to that kind of stuff.

E.B
08-07-2008, 02:46 PM
Do you have to order it with a sealed and pressurized cab?? is that only an option or is that standard on all cab models? just wondering because we just got one and it's not sealed!!

Tigerotor77W
08-07-2008, 10:07 PM
Nobody else is backing their machines like that (at no cost to the purchaser).

Not quite. Whayne Supply has a "3 for free" campaign that's a 3 year, 3000 hour warranty, 0 for 36 months, and 3 free PMs.

With Cat, it's usually up to the specific dealer to decide what campaign to launch at no cost to the customer, so it gives the dealers the flexibility to tailor to what the competition is doing.

ksss
08-08-2008, 12:31 AM
Not quite. Whayne Supply has a "3 for free" campaign that's a 3 year, 3000 hour warranty, 0 for 36 months, and 3 free PMs.

With Cat, it's usually up to the specific dealer to decide what campaign to launch at no cost to the customer, so it gives the dealers the flexibility to tailor to what the competition is doing.


Its good that some dealers are offering it. With the CASE machine though you can buy one anywhere in the Country and get the same deal.

Scag48
08-08-2008, 01:53 AM
Its good that some dealers are offering it. With the CASE machine though you can buy one anywhere in the Country and get the same deal.

Yep, with Case you also get the get the added satisfaction of knowing that if you break that plastic mailbox of a hydraulic disconnect lever off, you'll get it replaced for free within 3 years. See because they know it's not actually damage if you break it, it was junk to begin with, so they just warranty it.

ksss
08-08-2008, 02:09 AM
Yep, with Case you also get the get the added satisfaction of knowing that if you break that plastic mailbox of a hydraulic disconnect lever off, you'll get it replaced for free within 3 years. See because they know it's not actually damage if you break it, it was junk to begin with, so they just warranty it.

Scag, my brother, put it into a balloon and Let It Go.

Scag48
08-08-2008, 02:39 AM
I can't. I mean, seriously, that thing is JUNK.

qps
08-08-2008, 08:22 AM
Its good that some dealers are offering it. With the CASE machine though you can buy one anywhere in the Country and get the same deal.

Extended warranty's help me sleep at night...(on my equipment, not the wife's washing machine)...but in the back of my mind I always ask myself why does a manufacturer have to offer more warranty than the competitor....answer....who cares....if they offer I will accept:weightlifter:
somewhere down the line the customer is paying for that warranty, cost savings in plactic alone in case products funds all those warranty's...**that's for you shane**:laugh:

***Come to think of it...my wifes Kenmore has broke down more than anything we own......glad I bought the extended warranty...

Scag48
08-08-2008, 04:35 PM
cost savings in plactic alone in case products funds all those warranty's...



Hahahaha, amen brother! :laugh:

RockSet N' Grade
08-08-2008, 06:01 PM
I like that balloon analogy......have to remember that one and add that to my list of sarcastic remarks.......Did you hear that on Dr. Phil?

Construct'O
08-08-2008, 09:50 PM
I like that balloon analogy......have to remember that one and add that to my list of sarcastic remarks.......Did you hear that on Dr. Phil?

How about this one"build a bridge and get over it!!!!!!!":usflag:

AMCAT
08-08-2008, 10:59 PM
Well there you go, it's not the operators, it's the VTS that tears them apart, the CTL/MTL have more power in the drives not only in the deep gear reduction, but just the traingle of the track, the VTS is still an oval track, it's much harder to move the track when it's oval.
That was the concept behind Cat's High Drives back in the 80's.

Are you saying that VTS systems are not a good idea to put on a machine to do heavy work such as grading, moving topsoil& dirt & the like ????

ksss
08-08-2008, 11:25 PM
Are you saying that VTS systems are not a good idea to put on a machine to do heavy work such as grading, moving topsoil& dirt & the like ????



Certainly this is not going to degrade into the high drive justification debate is it.

The machines with the VTS seem at least in the videos to put more power to the ground than same size CTL. I would not argue that it could be hard on the machine, but some common sense operating there does not seem to be any repeatable problems with the VTS on a skid steer.

dozerman21
08-08-2008, 11:41 PM
Certainly this is not going to degrade into the high drive justification debate is it.

The machines with the VTS seem at least in the videos to put more power to the ground than same size CTL. I would not argue that it could be hard on the machine, but some common sense operating there does not seem to be any repeatable problems with the VTS on a skid steer.

KSSS- Did you ever get your VTS tracks put on your 440? If so, any thoughts? How did it effect the machines performance good or bad? Or are they still in the crate?:laugh:

bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 11:43 PM
Are you saying that VTS systems are not a good idea to put on a machine to do heavy work such as grading, moving topsoil& dirt & the like ????


No, the VTS is a bad idea if all you are going to do is hard dozing and pushing, leave that heavy work to the CTL's, their drive motors and reductions are meant for that, but a small drive motor powering 2 axles (only 1 per side on VTS) makes some bad mojo. That's why Cat is offering the VTS ready package for their skid steers, heavier drive chains and larger motors and kill the 2 speed systems.

However, if you need the added floatation, traction and reduced ground disturbance that the VTS can offer go for it, but use it wisely, otherwise your drive systems are going to go bust.

iron peddler
08-09-2008, 12:28 PM
Certainly this is not going to degrade into the high drive justification debate is it.

The machines with the VTS seem at least in the videos to put more power to the ground than same size CTL. I would not argue that it could be hard on the machine, but some common sense operating there does not seem to be any repeatable problems with the VTS on a skid steer.

am i sensing a theme here with tracked ssl's? i tell all of my customers or even potential customers, no matter what you buy be aware of your conditions that you are going to put rubber tracks in....alot of people seem to forget that ctl tracks are made alot like mhex tracks that travel at a third of the speed....and it still amazes me when i still see experienced guys 360 counter rotate these units....all that being said i will not recommend the VTS unless the customer needs a machine that he can switch back to tires.:drinkup:

stuvecorp
08-09-2008, 02:48 PM
am i sensing a theme here with tracked ssl's? i tell all of my customers or even potential customers, no matter what you buy be aware of your conditions that you are going to put rubber tracks in....alot of people seem to forget that ctl tracks are made alot like mhex tracks that travel at a third of the speed....and it still amazes me when i still see experienced guys 360 counter rotate these units....all that being said i will not recommend the VTS unless the customer needs a machine that he can switch back to tires.:drinkup:

Do you steer people away from the VTS because of problems? I haven't had mine that long but really like them and I think they do enhance the skid. I have wondered if the VTS gets a bad rap because salesman want to sell their tracked machines? The resale of dedicated track machines are so bad and the maintenance costs are scary but I will find out how the VTS fairs cost wise.

It will be interesting to see how the powertrain handles the stress of the VTS on my machine. For 75% of my work a wheeled machine and over the tire tracks could work but the VTS covers being able to work off blacktop/concrete. I think this(tracked machine vs VTS) is a very interesting topic and we all have different experiences with it.

AMCAT
08-09-2008, 04:06 PM
It will be interesting to see how the powertrain handles the stress of the VTS on my machine. For 75% of my work a wheeled machine and over the tire tracks could work but the VTS covers being able to work off blacktop/concrete. I think this(tracked machine vs VTS) is a very interesting topic and we all have different experiences with it.[/QUOTE]

I have a VTS system for My CAT 248B i guess i will also find out what i am up against far as maint. goes! One reason i went this route is because some of the time i need wheels & some of the time i need tracks will see how this machine holds out with the system

AMCAT
08-09-2008, 04:10 PM
Do you steer people away from the VTS because of problems? I haven't had mine that long but really like them and I think they do enhance the skid. I have wondered if the VTS gets a bad rap because salesman want to sell their tracked machines? The resale of dedicated track machines are so bad and the maintenance costs are scary but I will find out how the VTS fairs cost wise.

It will be interesting to see how the powertrain handles the stress of the VTS on my machine. For 75% of my work a wheeled machine and over the tire tracks could work but the VTS covers being able to work off blacktop/concrete. I think this(tracked machine vs VTS) is a very interesting topic and we all have different experiences with it.

How many hours do you have on your set by now ????

ksss
08-09-2008, 06:58 PM
KSSS- Did you ever get your VTS tracks put on your 440? If so, any thoughts? How did it effect the machines performance good or bad? Or are they still in the crate?:laugh:


Ah........... they are still in the crate.

A landscape buddy of mine who has them on a 70XT is just finishing his second year on them. He loves them. The machine was one of my trade ins. I traded it at 1500 hours and it works well.

AMCAT
08-09-2008, 07:21 PM
Ah........... they are still in the crate.

A landscape buddy of mine who has them on a 70XT is just finishing his second year on them. He loves them. The machine was one of my trade ins. I traded it at 1500 hours and it works well.

Really still in the crate...i don't know how long these systems last but i am sure they will outlast the machine if you leave them in the crate:dancing:

stuvecorp
08-10-2008, 02:56 PM
How many hours do you have on your set by now ????

They have 850 hours on them, one track was replaced but don't know any details as why. The other track has some wear maybe 75%? I use the machine every day but sometimes it may only be 15 minutes just to move pallets or load a truck, should last me a long time. The plan is to trade in on a S3 440 and put the VTS on that next spring.