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FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 07:22 AM
Have a system with lousy pressure. I'm convinced the installer put the system on the wrong meter. 5/8". Using 1" for house. I want to swap the service but I'm nervous about screwing up the house. 50psi at house and two story. So I think I'm going to Turn on a couple of showers and shut the 1" down some to make sure nothing gets affected in the house. Just trying to figure best way to get 1" meter to imitate 5/8" meter without swapping meters.

AI Inc
07-16-2008, 07:24 AM
Things reasly are different in TX . Ive never seen a metor that wasnt inside the house.

AmEdge
07-16-2008, 07:34 AM
No meters inside the house here either, must be a northern thing.

I've never seen a meter that you didn't have to dig out 3gallons of soil just to read the size. :dizzy:

So, did ya design the system based on the 1" meter and then hooked into the 5/8" or what?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 07:35 AM
No meters inside the house here either, must be a northern thing.

I've never seen a meter that you didn't have to dig out 3gallons of soil just to read the size. :dizzy:

So, did ya design the system based on the 1" meter and then hooked into the 5/8" or what?

READ MY POST.

AmEdge
07-16-2008, 07:46 AM
READ MY POST.

Have a system with lousy pressure. I'm convinced the installer put the system on the wrong meter. 5/8". Using 1" for house. I want to swap the service but I'm nervous about screwing up the house. 50psi at house and two story. So I think I'm going to Turn on a couple of showers and shut the 1" down some to make sure nothing gets affected in the house. Just trying to figure best way to get 1" meter to imitate 5/8" meter without swapping meters.

Convinced? As in you had to be persuaded? Or that you know for sure?

I'll go out on a limb and assume when you say installer you're referring to someone who doesn't work for you?

When was the system installed? Has it always had low pressure?

I guess there's two meters? One for irr. and one for house? And the "installer" tapped into the wrong one?

Really could use a more detailed description of the problem.

All I can gather is that you think he might have used the wrong meter and now you want to "figure best way to get 1" meter to imitate 5/8" meter without swapping meter". Which not only sounds like a lot of trouble, but doesn't make any sense.

:)

Wet_Boots
07-16-2008, 07:47 AM
Is it 50 psi at the street? One simple test aid is a 'meter spud', which is a pipe nipple of appropriate size and length. But you can go a step further, and make up a meter spud of short nipples and valves, and pressure gauges, and adjust the valves, and see how the house plumbing reacts. If you can choke down the one-inch supply to make it equal to a 5/8 meter, and the house doesn't suffer, then no worries.

How close are the meters to each other?

Kiril
07-16-2008, 07:57 AM
Close the ball valve between 1/3-1/2 of full open.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 08:04 AM
Convinced? As in you had to be persuaded? Or that you know for sure?

I'll go out on a limb and assume when you say installer you're referring to someone who doesn't work for you?

When was the system installed? Has it always had low pressure?

I guess there's two meters? One for irr. and one for house? And the "installer" tapped into the wrong one?

Really could use a more detailed description of the problem.

All I can gather is that you think he might have used the wrong meter and now you want to "figure best way to get 1" meter to imitate 5/8" meter without swapping meter". Which not only sounds like a lot of trouble, but doesn't make any sense.

:)
Experience convinced. I've worked Dallas irrigation problems for 28 years. Larger meters generally are for the irrigation, smaller meters for the house.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 08:06 AM
Close the ball valve between 1/3-1/2 of full open.

This was my idea as well. Any change in pressure inside the house is going to be noticed regardless how slight.

Kiril
07-16-2008, 08:09 AM
This was my idea as well. Any change in pressure inside the house is going to be noticed regardless how slight.

If you really want to be sure, I'd go there today, crank it down, then let the client know to watch for pressure changes, and let it ride for a day or two.

What is the difference in Cv between the two meters?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 08:10 AM
Convinced? As in you had to be persuaded? Or that you know for sure?

I'll go out on a limb and assume when you say installer you're referring to someone who doesn't work for you?

When was the system installed? Has it always had low pressure?

I guess there's two meters? One for irr. and one for house? And the "installer" tapped into the wrong one?

Really could use a more detailed description of the problem.

All I can gather is that you think he might have used the wrong meter and now you want to "figure best way to get 1" meter to imitate 5/8" meter without swapping meter". Which not only sounds like a lot of trouble, but doesn't make any sense.

:)

You figured the whole situation out. I write for brevity and the assumption I'm dealing with thinkers and troubleshooters. If I have to give a long explanation to somebody I probably don't want their advice anyway.

Wet_Boots
07-16-2008, 08:10 AM
You might also just get the appropriate bushings, and place the 5/8 meter on the one-inch mounting.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 08:11 AM
You might also just get the appropriate bushings, and place the 5/8 meter on the one-inch mounting.

Thought about that as well. Too much work.

Wet_Boots
07-16-2008, 08:14 AM
Better to just change all the heads, and get that upgrade money. Our curbside meter pits are far roomier, as they must be deeper than the frost line.

AmEdge
07-16-2008, 08:22 AM
You figured the whole situation out. I write for brevity and the assumption I'm dealing with thinkers and troubleshooters. If I have to give a long explanation to somebody I probably don't want their advice anyway.

My, my.......such thin skin.

But, please indulge me a bit more as I'm curious.

Two meters.....one for the house and one for irr.

The installer tapped into the house meter. So, the irr. meter is untapped? Or is it being used for the house?

Tom Tom
07-16-2008, 09:19 AM
So, two meters, one for house, one for sprinklers.

Turn on the sprinklers

Turn 1 meter off, if sprinklers still work, its the other meter

But, I'm figuring you already tried this.

DanaMac
07-16-2008, 09:21 AM
So, two meters, one for house, one for sprinklers.

Turn on the sprinklers

Turn 1 meter off, if sprinklers still work, its the other meter

But, I'm figuring you already tried this.

I was thinking the same thing, so there must be something I am missing.

jimmyburg
07-16-2008, 12:35 PM
the city will notice when they start reading the meter after you have changed it

Mike Leary
07-16-2008, 03:21 PM
the city will notice when they start reading the meter after you have changed it

Our city boys won't let us fool with their stuff & I would not not take the
chance doing it myself, anyways.

Waterit
07-16-2008, 04:51 PM
I was thinking the same thing, so there must be something I am missing.

Same here.

Can you criss-cross the mains easily (once you've determined which meter is which)?

EagleLandscape
07-16-2008, 06:17 PM
you guys are ******ed. from the looks of it, that system is old. Typically in areas in our area with 50psi, we're dealing with older neighborhoods (already completed built out, limiting infrastructure).

What happened was the house is running off of the irrigation meter, and the irrigation is running off of the house meter.

Seeing how both meters get tapped at the same time (by the city, not by irrigator/plumber), and houses are built before irrigation systems are put in...
I'm gonna go out on a limb here (not really, cause im smart:)) and say the plumber that plumbed the house, tied the house into the irrigation meter .

When the irrigation guy comes along, the only available meter is the 5/8 meter.

Peter, am I ******ed too?

EagleLandscape
07-16-2008, 06:18 PM
Peter, does this mean the house is getting charged sewer water on their "irrigation only meter" and the house water is free from sewer charges?

Waterit
07-16-2008, 06:32 PM
Ain't not 'tarded, neither, just been out in the sun too long.::hammerhead:

The house running off the irr meter and vice versa are why I asked if it was possible to criss-cross the lines, meaning criss-cross them BACK.:dizzy:

Good question, Mr. Wingfield, about the sewer charges, but it should be based on gallon usage, not meter size.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-16-2008, 06:54 PM
hmmm tricky one pete...

my thoughts..
1.turn on the sprinks and see what meter spins? I'm sure you did that just throwing that out there..

2.I would turn 1 meter down and run the sprinks..see what happens while meter is running....maybe turn it up or down and see what happens to the zones?

Mike Leary
07-16-2008, 07:03 PM
Something has gone horribly wrong with this thread, I don't get it. :dizzy:
Will one of you "pros" hip me to the problem & why no one can figure it out?
This is like watching "As the meter turns".

AmEdge
07-16-2008, 07:03 PM
Wow, so this is even simpler than I thought. :laugh:

Mike Leary
07-16-2008, 07:06 PM
Wow, so this is even simpler than I thought. :laugh:

Pack your bags, the Fimco jet will pick you up.

Dirty Water
07-16-2008, 07:16 PM
Dig up the street back to the corp stop. Then install a 4" valve on the main.

Its about as sane as the other suggestions here :)

EagleLandscape
07-16-2008, 07:22 PM
Ain't not 'tarded, neither, just been out in the sun too long.::hammerhead:

The house running off the irr meter and vice versa are why I asked if it was possible to criss-cross the lines, meaning criss-cross them BACK.:dizzy:

Good question, Mr. Wingfield, about the sewer charges, but it should be based on gallon usage, not meter size.

No, an irrigation meter does not have a sewer charge to it. The city has irrigation meters, and house meters registered by serial numbers. However, the city doesnt know that contractors botched the deal, and could be charging sewer on what is actually being used by the irrigation system. couple 10,000 gallons of water per month on irr system, 4k gallons per house. irrigation is getting sewer charge on that, $$$.

Mike Leary
07-16-2008, 07:22 PM
Its about as sane as the other suggestions here :)

The retired high posters seem to have the best suggestions.

AmEdge
07-16-2008, 07:23 PM
Pack your bags, the Fimco jet will pick you up.

If there's an open bar, then I'm there. :clapping:

Waterit
07-16-2008, 07:36 PM
No, an irrigation meter does not have a sewer charge to it. The city has irrigation meters, and house meters registered by serial numbers. However, the city doesnt know that contractors botched the deal, and could be charging sewer on what is actually being used by the irrigation system. couple 10,000 gallons of water per month on irr system, 4k gallons per house. irrigation is getting sewer charge on that, $$$.

They do it the same way here - and that was my point, that they're paying sewer for irrigation water.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-16-2008, 07:43 PM
They do it the same way here - and that was my point, that they're paying sewer for irrigation water.

So OWNED!!!!!!!!!

I would see if they could get a rebate......

frumdig
07-16-2008, 07:51 PM
i had the same thing happen to me over the winter... we show up to get started and find out the builder took the 1" for the house and left me the 5/8.... well luckily it was a fairly tight property, and nothing that really required a 1"... but ild be curious to see how the meters are set up in the city's books... that thought never really occured to me, i just figured it was typical builder crap...

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 08:31 PM
Is it 50 psi at the street? One simple test aid is a 'meter spud', which is a pipe nipple of appropriate size and length. But you can go a step further, and make up a meter spud of short nipples and valves, and pressure gauges, and adjust the valves, and see how the house plumbing reacts. If you can choke down the one-inch supply to make it equal to a 5/8 meter, and the house doesn't suffer, then no worries.

How close are the meters to each other?
One is in the front yard one is in the back:rolleyes: But seriously thanks for the advice. It had not even occurred to me the sewage charge could be wrong or that the plumber robbed the irrigation meter. New house in tear down neighborhood. Waggoner (Walnut Hill) and Preston area for Dallasites. I would never do this switch over without getting my ducks in a row with the city. Figuring out which meter did what was not an issue and I'm insulted by any advice in this regard.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-16-2008, 08:51 PM
how much more pressure you think there will be from the 1'' meter kind sir.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 09:17 PM
how much more pressure (at the heads? I'm assuming you are asking?) you think there will be from the 1'' meter kind sir.

A Lot. The water meter is the biggest bottleneck in the system besides the idiot installer.

WalkGood
07-16-2008, 09:22 PM
Why do you need to throttle down the 1" meter serving the house? Are the sprinklers on the 5/8" meter running at the same time occupants are using the water thus "stealing" volume/pressure (this would suppose that both meters are off of the same physical copper pipe coming off the municipal water main)?

Dirty Water
07-16-2008, 09:25 PM
How do you expect to gain more pressure from the larger meter?

What you will get is more gpm.

WalkGood
07-16-2008, 09:25 PM
Put a good quality MV on the 1" service and bring it over to the sprinkler system.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 09:29 PM
Why do you need to throttle down the 1" meter serving the house? Are the sprinklers on the 5/8" meter running at the same time occupants are using the water thus "stealing" volume/pressure (this would suppose that both meters are off of the same physical copper pipe coming off the municipal water main)?

Wrong assumption. (suppose is a tricky way to avoid the word assume) Dallas will not tie two meters onto one feed. Separate feeds. 3/4"cu and 5/8"meter to irrigation. 1"cu and 1"meter to house. 3/4" cu with 5/8" meter are flow killers. I hate em.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 09:32 PM
How do you expect to gain more pressure from the larger meter?

What you will get is more gpm.

I think he should have phrased it how much less pressure loss do you expect. I need greater flow at less pressure loss to make this a more than adequate system and be able to modify it.

Wet_Boots
07-16-2008, 09:34 PM
C'mon, put in MP Rotators all around, and screw the meters. :) How gpm are the zones looking for right now?

WalkGood
07-16-2008, 09:39 PM
I need greater flow at less pressure loss to make this a more than adequate system and be able to modify it.

So how does throttling down the house meter help you with the irrigation?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 09:57 PM
So how does throttling down the house meter help you with the irrigation?

The answer is in the thread. Seek and ye shall find.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Took pics of a City of Richardson install I did eons ago (17 years to be exact) City ran 1" feeds so I got them to install a 1" meter off the same feed for irrigation. No sewage charge and no minimum water usage charges.

Wet_Boots
07-16-2008, 10:13 PM
So, how close are the meters in this situation?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 10:19 PM
So, how close are the meters in this situation?

:cry::cry::cry::cry:......

7 heads thread I'm warnin ya.

Wet_Boots
07-16-2008, 10:24 PM
Privileged information? I wonder why we weren't seeing a photo with both meters in it.

This is one of those threads with more drinkin' than thinkin'

WalkGood
07-16-2008, 10:26 PM
I did read it. Kinda silly to "downgrade" the house water supply.

Might be less expensive to just upgrade the 5/8" service meter/supply pipes to 1", rather than swapping meters or criss-crossing supply lines AFTER the meters.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-16-2008, 10:58 PM
I did read it. Kinda silly to "downgrade" the house water supply.

Might be less expensive to just upgrade the 5/8" service meter/supply pipes to 1", rather than swapping meters or criss-crossing supply lines AFTER the meters.

Why don't you call the City of Dallas and get a price on a 1" meter install. ;)


If your suggestion was doable I wouldn't be throwing this thread out here for suggestions. In the perfect meter world both meters would be 1.5" meters. It is quite possible they wouldn't know in the house if they were on a 5/8 or 1" meter. I can assure you this system would improve vastly on a 1" meter.

AmEdge
07-16-2008, 11:11 PM
What's the static pressure?

On the irrigation meter that is.

Kiril
07-17-2008, 12:05 AM
How do you expect to gain more pressure from the larger meter?

If you have to ask that question :hammerhead:

Dirty Water
07-17-2008, 01:04 AM
If you have to ask that question :hammerhead:

*cough* Rhetorical *cough*

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-17-2008, 05:32 AM
What's the static pressure?

On the irrigation meter that is.

50 psi on house meter. Should be the same on the irri meter. The meters are less than 10' from each other. I should have taken a pic of both meters for everybody to see proximity. Switching meters is a no-brainer to me but any change in house pressure gets met with :confused::angry: It is a two story house and an upstairs shower could be affected by a meter swap. 50 psi is low for around here.

WalkGood
07-17-2008, 08:20 AM
If the shower heads are singles and "legal" (low-flo w/restrictors intact) then the pressure will be the same regardless of which meter is supplying. But if they use a cascading showewr wall of multi nozzles/heads.......

Hey! Put the MP rotators in their shower! :rolleyes: :laugh:

Tom Tom
07-17-2008, 08:53 AM
Figuring out which meter did what was not an issue and I'm insulted by any advice in this regard.


Now thats funny.

Wet_Boots
07-17-2008, 08:56 AM
You can get 5/8x3/4 meters to replace a 5/8, if that's what you have. That gives you 3/4 performance, and lower losses. Does the system flow as much as 20 gpm?