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roco5
07-19-2008, 09:32 AM
Good Morning,

It am working an estimate for a pool deck and Retaining wall. I have a project that I am trying to price in the D.C. area but do not want to scare the home owners. They are looking for a natural flagstone look that does not get hot and will not be hard on the toes. I called my quarry and was recommended three stones Silver Lake ($7/sq.ft.) Canyon View ($7/sq. ft.) and irregular oak valley at ($12/sq.ft.). The decking area is 2015 sq. ft. of dirt left by the pool guys. I have to build concrete base and install over that. There is also about ~225 Ln. Ft. of retaining wall to be built @ ~775 sq. ft. of surface area. How much would you charge for everything?

Thank you!

Edgewater
07-19-2008, 09:38 AM
In our are wet laid flag done well brings 30-50 a square foot. The wall work will run around 45 a square foot.

This brings you job well over 100,000

roco5
07-19-2008, 09:43 AM
Thank you I was looking to charge about $30/ft. for both but thought that I may be cutting it close. Are prices generally higher in your are vs. East Coast (US)?

PlatinumLandCon
07-19-2008, 02:46 PM
In our are wet laid flag done well brings 30-50 a square foot. The wall work will run around 45 a square foot.

This brings you job well over 100,000

+1:waving:

shethinksmytractors_sexy
07-19-2008, 05:51 PM
Good Morning,

It am working an estimate for a pool deck and Retaining wall. I have a project that I am trying to price in the D.C. area but do not want to scare the home owners. They are looking for a natural flagstone look that does not get hot and will not be hard on the toes. I called my quarry and was recommended three stones Silver Lake ($7/sq.ft.) Canyon View ($7/sq. ft.) and irregular oak valley at ($12/sq.ft.). The decking area is 2015 sq. ft. of dirt left by the pool guys. I have to build concrete base and install over that. There is also about ~225 Ln. Ft. of retaining wall to be built @ ~775 sq. ft. of surface area. How much would you charge for everything?

Thank you!

belgard makes a new paver that looks like flagstone. i have not used them yet but look great and it might be cheaper also... so check into that. but if i built the wall i would charge roughly around 28k depending on what block you use and how much excavation is to be done

roco5
07-19-2008, 09:17 PM
Thanks guys I will let you know how it goes.

ANC Stone Creations
07-20-2008, 05:35 PM
There is much more to a bid then just pulling numbers.

How many guys will be working?, what is the access like?, is there machine time? price of materials?, ground conditions?, delivery? do you need a engineer? permits? will you be subbing out any work?

As you can see that is just part of it.
Where do you guys? or how do you guys come up with these numbers with out viewing the project?

Oh, and if they have a inground pool they will probably not be shocked with your prices, they probably allready got some numbers from pool contractor to do what you are bidding for, but he would sub it out therefore drives the prices up.

Good luck with your project.

shethinksmytractors_sexy
07-20-2008, 06:13 PM
well i have a sq ft. price i go by that includes all of the following you mentioned. thats materials, machines, workers, etc... it usually comes out right and is not to high or to low of a number. it works good for me.

ANC Stone Creations
07-20-2008, 06:31 PM
So you bid every job the same?

I am a 3rd generation Landscape/Water Feature Designer and Installer with more than 20 years experience, and I would never bid all jobs the same on a sq ft price.

PlatinumLandCon
07-20-2008, 07:09 PM
So you bid every job the same?

I am a 3rd generation Landscape/Water Feature Designer and Installer with more than 20 years experience, and I would never bid all jobs the same on a sq ft price.

Yeah every job is unique.

PatriotLandscape
07-20-2008, 07:51 PM
well i have a sq ft. price i go by that includes all of the following you mentioned. thats materials, machines, workers, etc... it usually comes out right and is not to high or to low of a number. it works good for me.

And you'll never make the money on a job that you really should have.

Unit pricing is for rookies who don't know how to estimate.

PlatinumLandCon
07-20-2008, 08:49 PM
And you'll never make the money on a job that you really should have.

Unit pricing is for rookies who don't know how to estimate.

You can always have a general sf price to give you an idea, but there's a million and one things to change that number. You can blindly say a 1000sf driveway will be around 12 grand under ideal conditions if $12/sf is your general price BUT that could balloon to over 15 grand easily.

shethinksmytractors_sexy
07-20-2008, 09:27 PM
hah yall ******s just wanna argue about somethin. i usually have a typical sq ft. price for walls/patios etc. i also price in anything else that would be extra such as permits, engineer, laborers, etc. if it is just a basic wall with minimum excavation i will use by basic sq ft. price. now, the price changes depending on what block to use. damn, maybe if yall worked instead of sitten your ass on here everyday all day you might know!!!

PlatinumLandCon
07-20-2008, 09:34 PM
hah yall ******s just wanna argue about somethin. i usually have a typical sq ft. price for walls/patios etc. i also price in anything else that would be extra such as permits, engineer, laborers, etc. if it is just a basic wall with minimum excavation i will use by basic sq ft. price. now, the price changes depending on what block to use. damn, maybe if yall worked instead of sitten your ass on here everyday all day you might know!!!

You're such a hack, why are you here? Maybe you should learn a thing or 2 before building a wall. I'd be ashamed to post pics like you have. You act like you invented SRW's.:hammerhead::dizzy:

Mike33
07-20-2008, 09:48 PM
I have a lot srw under my belt and pricing every day by sq' i dont see it working. Most of my walls is for a reason, to hold something back. So basicly there is a problem or i wouldnt be called to build a wall. So now we say every problem is the same and you have a sq' price for every problem? I dont think so! Example : removal of old wall, cross ties is a pita and expensive to get rid of, concrete blocks sometimes cant be dumped with fill dirt i get rid of, some old block walls has thick concrete footers that need to be jackhammered, some jobs i cant get tri-axle in to dump drain stone so i have to use a single axle costing me 2 deliverys instead of 1. Im only scratching the surface on examples i just given of variables now someone give me the sq' prices on these issues. Also if your to high you might not get the job say what you want and live on your egos but in todays market price means a lot, at least in my area.
Mike

DVS Hardscaper
07-20-2008, 10:10 PM
If it's in the DC area and if they say they want "FLAGSTONE", then they WANT flagstone. In the DC market, they want the REAL thing, they don't want pavers.


With no disrespect intended, I'm detecting that you have no experience with this type of work. The square footage you mentioned is a large job, and setting mortared flagstone is an art and a trade. The joints need to ALL be spaced EVENLY - which is easier said then done, especially if you have never done masonry work. Again, with no disrespect, stone masonry work is not something that your average lawn jockey or tree planter can do.

We never do unit pricing.

We charge on an individual bases per job. Factoring in variables such as staging area, access to work site - can we use a skid steer or must we use a wheel burrow? Is the site 300 feet up a hill behind the house, or is the backyard level and 60 feet from the road?

I'd caution you to think long and hard about this. Based on what you described, not knowing what you're doing can turn the job into a job from Hell for you.


http://www.outdoorfinishes.com

.

shethinksmytractors_sexy
07-20-2008, 10:14 PM
haha yall are not getting what im saying. first of all musclecarboy your a hack. where is the pics of your jobs at??? and how many times have you sucked your daddy's d*ck for the truck you got???? same for everyone else... yall talk Sh*t but have nothing to prove the work you have done. i can put up pics of all kinds of walls i have but yet nobody on this website has a big enough wall that even compares to one of mine. seriously!!!! so if you would listen to wtf im sayin you would understand. i said i have a sq. ft. price for a basic retaining wall. this includes building a wall with gravel backfill and minor excavation. thats it. yes, the price goes up when you include a more expensive block, more excavation, tearing out an old wall, jackhammering concrete, buying the case of beer for the week and etc. etc. i dont see y yall get so defensive on **** like this. i mean yea no sh*t the price is going to be more when you include everything. im not a dumbass!!! i DONT build every wall from the same sq ft. price. let me repeat that so you wont get confused..... i have a basic sq ft. price that includes the minimum of building a retaining wall, i DO NOT build every wall from the same sq ft. price...... so if i need to break this down one more time for yall slow kids let me know!!! and besides if i did have a sq ft. price and built every wall from the same number, why do you care??? just wondering, what has it to do with you???? evidently all yall know how to do is argue so i guess i just gotta get used to it...

shethinksmytractors_sexy
07-20-2008, 10:17 PM
If it's in the DC area and if they say they want "FLAGSTONE", then they WANT flagstone. In the DC market, they want the REAL thing, they don't want pavers.


With no disrespect intended, I'm detecting that you have no experience with this type of work. The square footage you mentioned is a large job, and setting mortared flagstone is an art and a trade. The joints need to ALL be spaced EVENLY - which is easier said then done, especially if you have never done masonry work. Again, with no disrespect, stone masonry work is not something that your average lawn jockey or tree planter can do.

We never do unit pricing.

We charge on an individual bases per job. Factoring in variables such as staging area, access to work site - can we use a skid steer or must we use a wheel burrow? Is the site 300 feet up a hill behind the house, or is the backyard level and 60 feet from the road?

I'd caution you to think long and hard about this. Based on what you described, not knowing what you're doing can turn the job into a job from Hell for you.


http://www.outdoorfinishes.com

.



yea i was just making the suggestion about the pavers. i dont do flagstone at ALL!!! i was just commenting about the wall thats it

PlatinumLandCon
07-20-2008, 10:18 PM
haha yall are not getting what im saying. first of all musclecarboy your a hack. where is the pics of your jobs at??? and how many times have you sucked your daddy's d*ck for the truck you got???? same for everyone else... yall talk Sh*t but have nothing to prove the work you have done. i can put up pics of all kinds of walls i have but yet nobody on this website has a big enough wall that even compares to one of mine. seriously!!!! so if you would listen to wtf im sayin you would understand. i said i have a sq. ft. price for a basic retaining wall. this includes building a wall with gravel backfill and minor excavation. thats it. yes, the price goes up when you include a more expensive block, more excavation, tearing out an old wall, jackhammering concrete, buying the case of beer for the week and etc. etc. i dont see y yall get so defensive on **** like this. i mean yea no sh*t the price is going to be more when you include everything. im not a dumbass!!! i DONT build every wall from the same sq ft. price. let me repeat that so you wont get confused..... i have a basic sq ft. price that includes the minimum of building a retaining wall, i DO NOT build every wall from the same sq ft. price...... so if i need to break this down one more time for yall slow kids let me know!!! and besides if i did have a sq ft. price and built every wall from the same number, why do you care??? just wondering, what has it to do with you???? evidently all yall know how to do is argue so i guess i just gotta get used to it...

I'll just address the comments toward me. I've posted pics before, look for them. I bought the truck myself. Also, incest isn't very popular up here like it is in the south.

shethinksmytractors_sexy
07-20-2008, 10:21 PM
I'll just address the comments toward me. I've posted pics before, look for them. I bought the truck myself. Also, incest isn't very popular up here like it is in the south.

haha thats a good one buddy, and wow you have built a paver driveway. that aint nuthin.

DVS Hardscaper
07-20-2008, 10:22 PM
haha yall are not getting what im saying. first of all musclecarboy your a hack. where is the pics of your jobs at??? and how many times have you sucked your daddy's d*ck for the truck you got???? same for everyone else... yall talk Sh*t but have nothing to prove the work you have done. i can put up pics of all kinds of walls i have but yet nobody on this website has a big enough wall that even compares to one of mine. seriously!!!! so if you would listen to wtf im sayin you would understand. i said i have a sq. ft. price for a basic retaining wall. this includes building a wall with gravel backfill and minor excavation. thats it. yes, the price goes up when you include a more expensive block, more excavation, tearing out an old wall, jackhammering concrete, buying the case of beer for the week and etc. etc. i dont see y yall get so defensive on **** like this. i mean yea no sh*t the price is going to be more when you include everything. im not a dumbass!!! i DONT build every wall from the same sq ft. price. let me repeat that so you wont get confused..... i have a basic sq ft. price that includes the minimum of building a retaining wall, i DO NOT build every wall from the same sq ft. price...... so if i need to break this down one more time for yall slow kids let me know!!! and besides if i did have a sq ft. price and built every wall from the same number, why do you care??? just wondering, what has it to do with you???? evidently all yall know how to do is argue so i guess i just gotta get used to it...



Wow, what an ego. And someone obviously didn't make it to church this morning. :hammerhead:


BTW - our work can be seen here: http://www.outdoorfinishes.com :cool2:

shethinksmytractors_sexy
07-20-2008, 10:25 PM
Wow. Someone obviously didn't make it to church this morning :hammerhead:


BTW - our work can be seen here: http://www.outdoorfinishes.com :cool2:

yes, you do some great work... it really looks good!!!! ive already checked out the site, its nice

PlatinumLandCon
07-20-2008, 10:27 PM
haha thats a good one buddy, and wow you have built a paver driveway. that aint nuthin.

I don't need to prove anything. We're on the internet, as far as anyone knows you could be a worker at that chitty company you post pics of. I could be an employee of the high class company I post pics of. This is a useless argument.

cooltype
07-20-2008, 11:46 PM
exactly i bet you are just an employee, you do alot of criticizing for your age. i know im not perfect at anything yet there are only like 5 people on here that i think know anything everyone else just likes to argue. i like to add fuel to the firel lol. the people that really know this stuff just sit back and laugh while everyone else goes back and forth.

example- read zedosix's comments he only gives good advice, i never see him arguing and he does really nice work.

and wheres your muscle car at lol

roco5
07-21-2008, 10:00 AM
If it's in the DC area and if they say they want "FLAGSTONE", then they WANT flagstone. In the DC market, they want the REAL thing, they don't want pavers.


With no disrespect intended, I'm detecting that you have no experience with this type of work. The square footage you mentioned is a large job, and setting mortared flagstone is an art and a trade. The joints need to ALL be spaced EVENLY - which is easier said then done, especially if you have never done masonry work. Again, with no disrespect, stone masonry work is not something that your average lawn jockey or tree planter can do.

We never do unit pricing.

We charge on an individual bases per job. Factoring in variables such as staging area, access to work site - can we use a skid steer or must we use a wheel burrow? Is the site 300 feet up a hill behind the house, or is the backyard level and 60 feet from the road?

I'd caution you to think long and hard about this. Based on what you described, not knowing what you're doing can turn the job into a job from Hell for you.


http://www.outdoorfinishes.com

.
I thank all for their help. I have actually been working with a group of Mason's that have about 8-10 years experience. So I generally sub the work out. They are excellent at what they do, however, when it comes to getting jobs, estimating material, and dealing with the customer they are not that good. We have been a successful partnership thus far but I am realizing like many have attested on this site that a lot plays into estimation. I have been told that estimation is an art that you learn over time. That is my main reason for posting this thread. I recognize that the experience on this board is great and I am willing to learn and talk to as many people as possible. Is there a coarse or a book that anyone can recommend to me. I have gotten a lot of smaller jobs and done them well. Because of this clients have referred me to the jobs I am now starting to get. At the end of the day I want to be competitive and provide excellent service. Thanks in advance to all!

DVS Hardscaper
07-21-2008, 11:18 AM
I thank all for their help. I have actually been working with a group of Mason's that have about 8-10 years experience. So I generally sub the work out. They are excellent at what they do, however, when it comes to getting jobs, estimating material, and dealing with the customer they are not that good. We have been a successful partnership thus far but I am realizing like many have attested on this site that a lot plays into estimation. I have been told that estimation is an art that you learn over time. That is my main reason for posting this thread. I recognize that the experience on this board is great and I am willing to learn and talk to as many people as possible. Is there a coarse or a book that anyone can recommend to me. I have gotten a lot of smaller jobs and done them well. Because of this clients have referred me to the jobs I am now starting to get. At the end of the day I want to be competitive and provide excellent service. Thanks in advance to all!


Subbing out stonework is an excellent way to go.

As far as estimating, really, the best way to learn is through trial and error.

When estimating the job, on paper, start building the job from the ground up, and out the gate to the road.

I account for every minute affiliated with the job, such as:

- time spent loading the truck(s) at the yard
- travel time to and from the job, per day, per employee
- time spent unloading equipment when initially arrivingg at job site, and time spent loading equipment when job is complete.
- all time spent performing each task for the job

You need to account for all materials and equipment necessary.

Yes, you'll leave things out that you either forgot about or didn't think of, but hey - we've all done that, heck I been in business since 1990 and I still forget to include things once or twice a year.