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View Full Version : She didn't sign a contract so i got $200... did i get ripped off??


Army-Guard89
07-20-2008, 03:58 AM
Ok, this is what happened. I offered the lady my services to install new mulch(Removed the old mulch, weeded the garden, and installed new mulch) so she went and got her own on her way home on day. I spent about 8 hours working on the mulching, and weeding cracks in her driveway.

Once we were finished i wanted atleast 600. She told me it was to much and its not her fault because we didnt discuss the pricing but i told her before hand everything is listed on my website if she ever has pricing questions. She checked it out and accepted it.
But she ended up only giving me 200 because what can i do she didnt sign a contract.

Rookie move i know, I just started and thought people had integrity.

There was 20 cubic yards. Check out my work on my website

http://www.kuiklawncareandlandscaping.com/apps/photos/album.jsp?albumID=1715362

milkie62
07-20-2008, 04:24 AM
It is just like getting a car repaired.If a customer asks you ball park a figure.Did you ball park a figure with her ? If not I would not have accepted the 200 dollars and given her a bill.If you are a legit business tell her to pay or take her to small claims court.Only costs $10 bucks I think.

Army-Guard89
07-20-2008, 04:39 AM
Im not legit till next week once i get the money from another job. getting insurence and also license(if thats how its spelled)

Roger
07-20-2008, 07:57 AM
Signing a contract has nothing to do with the issue. Having an agreed-upon price is what matters.

Mike Blevins
07-20-2008, 10:45 AM
Signing a contract has nothing to do with the issue. Having an agreed-upon price is what matters.

I agree, never just do a job and then tell them what the price is.(The customer always thinks is going to be cheaper) I have a friend that gets his customer's leaves up in the fall and he don't discuss price and when he gives the price they just about sh%t in their pants. Around 80.00 an hour is usually what he charges. Needless to say he loses some accounts over this.

topsites
07-20-2008, 10:50 AM
You guys are fools if you think a piece of paper printed up with some fancy ink is going to fix your problems,
you best remember few customers are the kind who are the only ones to sign, your signature goes on there too
and you might think nothing of that but once you sign it you are bound to that piece of paper that unscrupulous
customers tear some inexperienced LS legalese apart in seconds flat and then you're even worse off than now.

Because it's not that she didn't sign a contract ...

because we didnt discuss the pricing

There is your whole problem, heck you even admitted it.

Contracts can't fix that :p
So maybe it is better to learn how the system works then do it properly.
Because you will see, here on LS every Lco is also a lawyer LOL

4-Seasons
07-20-2008, 10:51 AM
Army Guard your website is ok, but u really should not go on google n copy n paste landscaping pictures from other sites. Just a little insight.

yard_smart
07-20-2008, 11:10 AM
It is just like getting a car repaired.If a customer asks you ball park a figure.Did you ball park a figure with her ? If not I would not have accepted the 200 dollars and given her a bill.If you are a legit business tell her to pay or take her to small claims court.Only costs $10 bucks I think.

A ligit business???? LMAO did you see his prices?

and you might be able to get a lil more money out of here if you freaking employees had company shirts or at min ANY SHIRT!!! that is just not professional. The first time i catch an employee with out a shirt on they are fired on the spot!

As far as your problem bite the bullet and fix whats broken. . . ALWAYS discuss price and present a proposal/quote. Get this signed and your good to go . . . another thing man you really need to get some ins. its only like 75 bucks a month. You hand a customer a copy as soon as you step foot on their property and instantly you given some sort of credibility which means more money!!!

Military Lawns
07-20-2008, 11:15 PM
Why Mulch?

Mulching helps make your garden look beutiful. Here are a few benefits of mulch.

This is from your mulch area. If you want to be taken serious, run everything through spell check first. Beautiful!

Just trying to help, not pick!

D. Jackson

MNmasterEXTERMINATOR
07-21-2008, 12:11 AM
I believe you don't need a contract if the monetary amount is below $500. A verbal contract will hold up in court. I only do contracts if the amount will be more than that.

lawnman_scott
07-21-2008, 12:17 AM
Ok, this is what happened. I offered the lady my services to install new mulch(Removed the old mulch, weeded the garden, and installed new mulch) so she went and got her own on her way home on day. I spent about 8 hours working on the mulching, and weeding cracks in her driveway.

Once we were finished i wanted atleast 600. She told me it was to much and its not her fault because we didnt discuss the pricing but i told her before hand everything is listed on my website if she ever has pricing questions. She checked it out and accepted it.
But she ended up only giving me 200 because what can i do she didnt sign a contract.

Rookie move i know, I just started and thought people had integrity.

There was 20 cubic yards. Check out my work on my website

http://www.kuiklawncareandlandscaping.com/apps/photos/album.jsp?albumID=1715362Your website says you charge $60 a yard for removal and installation of the new mulch. Wouldnt that be $1200? And you didnt think it would be a good idea to discuss price and are going to settle for $200?

KrayzKajun
07-21-2008, 12:22 AM
in Louisiana a verbal agrrement is just as good as a contract in court!

bohiaa
07-21-2008, 12:34 AM
I believe you don't need a contract if the monetary amount is below $500. A verbal contract will hold up in court. I only do contracts if the amount will be more than that.

Cort is such a waste of time, being the plantiff means you or rather he will have the burden of proof.... he has none other than her word......
If she's dumb enoulf to admit it, then there is the time loss...

Ya wind up loosing too much time when ya could be out working

Army-Guard89
07-21-2008, 01:50 AM
Lol i see i made a lot of mistakes, thanks for the help
I took thoese pictures of the site, im getting shirts made up in about a week, working on the insurence but need to find a good one around southern jersey... anyone know of one?

Also im spell checking the website, english spelling was never my strong point always sped ( i know thats bad for a website makes a bad first impression)

im glad im with LS =D

Are my prices bad?? are they to low or to high?

topsites
07-21-2008, 03:29 AM
Yeah I wanted to say I'm sorry I came off like that, I could not tell you what your prices are but you have to have the customer agree on a price before the work gets started.

Once you get that stuff straight you said you were doing, forget the written contracts but do make sure to get them to agree on a price with you and I believe you will see an improvement.

That is the most important part, that she took advantage of you isn't right and she should not have done that but I would just not worry about that anymore except I would let that be your reminder that you have to discuss the pricing first :p

'k

Peace out,
and good luck.

Allens LawnCare
07-21-2008, 03:00 PM
I'm not trying to be an A$$ but you need to have someone edit your site. You have spelling errors and if I was a customer the last thing I want to read is the work DEPENDS or spelled DEPNDS on your page....just list your services and put call for an estimate or pricing.

Allens LawnCare
07-21-2008, 03:03 PM
And $200 is a joke. You need to return the check or cash with a bill for around $1300-$1400 if not more.

J.A.G LAWNCARE
07-21-2008, 10:02 PM
And $200 is a joke. You need to return the check or cash with a bill for around $1300-$1400 if not more.

if he didnt pay for the mulch that job was about a $200 job .blow it , spray it , mulch it , blow it ... 2hours 2 men = 4total hours $ 50 per hour...:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

Allens LawnCare
07-22-2008, 09:15 AM
Ok, this is what happened. I offered the lady my services to install new mulch(Removed the old mulch, weeded the garden, and installed new mulch) so she went and got her own on her way home on day. I spent about 8 hours working on the mulching, and weeding cracks in her driveway.

Once we were finished i wanted atleast 600. She told me it was to much and its not her fault because we didnt discuss the pricing but i told her before hand everything is listed on my website if she ever has pricing questions. She checked it out and accepted it.
But she ended up only giving me 200 because what can i do she didnt sign a contract.

Rookie move i know, I just started and thought people had integrity.

There was 20 cubic yards. Check out my work on my website

http://www.kuiklawncareandlandscaping.com/apps/photos/album.jsp?albumID=1715362

if he didnt pay for the mulch that job was about a $200 job .blow it , spray it , mulch it , blow it ... 2hours 2 men = 4total hours $ 50 per hour...:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:


I believe he said "HE" not we...."HE"..did 8 hrs of work so if he where to charge $50 per hr(8)= $400, plus the weeding which would be an additional fee, edging not mentioned but thats additional. Sorry I forgot that she paid for the mulch, I was just giving him an Idea...I get $65-$70 per yard delivered and installed (Running Solo). All additional work would be more $$$$......if your moving 20 yards of mulch by yourself for $200,your nut's which would mean if there where two guys the $200 is even more of a joke.:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

ALC-GregH
07-22-2008, 10:36 AM
" I spent about 8 hours working on the mulching, and weeding cracks in her driveway."

"Once we were finished i wanted atleast 600."

these are both taken from his original post. I'm confused now. He first says "I spent 8hrs" then he says "we were finished"... So, did you have someone help you or not? Also, if she only gave you what SHE thought was fair, I would have given it back and told her she has 7 days to satisfy the bill or you'll be sending it to collections.

Army-Guard89
07-22-2008, 12:16 PM
There were two of us.

Allens LawnCare
07-22-2008, 01:14 PM
Even worse

dura to the max
07-22-2008, 02:50 PM
you also said that she picked up the mulch on her way home, how the hell does one pick up 20 yards of mulch on the way home? and how do 2 guys remove that much old mulch and replace it in 2 hours w/o a dingo or skid steer? it takes me and 1 employee 5 hours to do 10 yards w/ no weeding or removal of the existing mulch. can you clear this up?

Allens LawnCare
07-22-2008, 03:27 PM
That's what I'm saying, others on this thread seem to think $200 is a good price

Charles
07-22-2008, 04:16 PM
There are certain jobs you shouldn't do without the right equipment. That is if you want to get top dollar for your time. People pay big money if they see that equipment rolling. You are then doing the job efficiently and as quickly as possible. Either a machine to blow it on or a skid steer etc. A tiller to plow up the beds. Now if you just show up with pitch forks, shovels, rakes etc then you are most likely command much less dough or you will likely over price the actual value of the job. The customer thinks you did this.
Many customers want a ball park figure estimate. That way there are no supprises. You can only do this with experience or calling another LCO and asking them what they charge or by reading Lawnsite:waving:

ALC-GregH
07-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Charles, I happen to use a fork shovel and rake to spread mulch, so that means I'm worth less $? Get real, just because I didn't use a expensive piece of equipment, I'm worth less? Your crazy. I've only been in the business for a short time but every customer so far has liked the finished product very much and felt they paid a fair price to have it done. I get $80 a yard installed plus weeding time if needed and they're more then happy. I guess if I go out and buy a skidloader and pull up in that I can charge twice the price! :rolleyes:

progressivelawncare
07-22-2008, 08:21 PM
i charge 60 per yard with a rake, a fork, and a dodge truck. i also add a fuel surcharge in there so i get around 70.

NSLC
07-22-2008, 08:37 PM
Ok, this is what happened. I offered the lady my services to install new mulch(Removed the old mulch, weeded the garden, and installed new mulch) so she went and got her own on her way home on day. I spent about 8 hours working on the mulching, and weeding cracks in her driveway.

Once we were finished i wanted atleast 600. She told me it was to much and its not her fault because we didnt discuss the pricing but i told her before hand everything is listed on my website if she ever has pricing questions. She checked it out and accepted it.
But she ended up only giving me 200 because what can i do she didnt sign a contract.

Rookie move i know, I just started and thought people had integrity.

There was 20 cubic yards. Check out my work on my website

http://www.kuiklawncareandlandscaping.com/apps/photos/album.jsp?albumID=1715362 A lot of this statement is very confusing to me. So a little clarity from the author would be cool.

In your photos I do not see 20 yards of mulch. 20 yards is roughly 60 to 80 wheel barrels full.

If its cheap mulch then 20 yards would have cost her a minimum of $360 without delivery. It looks like double cut so im guessing with delivery it cost her closer to $500.

And you never mentioned if she actually had it deliverd, im assuming. I mean for all we know she could of loaded up her SUV and made about 90 trips...lol

You "removed" old mulch? I landscaped for 3 years and we never removed anything, unless it was dead or overgrown. Removing old mulch is like cutting grass with a pair of scissors.

You have a fairly decent website which takes a good amount of intelligence to create yet you fail at the most basic and important step of landscaping... the qoute???

I'm dumbfounded sir!:usflag:

J.A.G LAWNCARE
07-22-2008, 09:17 PM
That's what I'm saying, others on this thread seem to think $200 is a good price

wake up did you look at those pics , 20 yards of mulch would be higher then the fence ...................she picked it up , she drive a 18 wheeler i dont think so , maybe 20 bags ..................by the way the pics look there is no edging ..............and who pulls weeds out of cracks , round up ................
look at the pics $200 is the right price , the customer is not the one to pay because you work slow...............................................................:nono:

Tyler7692
07-22-2008, 11:38 PM
(Actual Quote from website)
Gutter Installing

Why take the chance of slipping off your ladder and not being able to go to work? Some of you cannot risk this because we are in a recession.

Just plain hilarious. If you can't see why this entire situation, the website, and the above quote are just down right.....well nevermind.

Allens LawnCare
07-23-2008, 10:52 AM
wake up did you look at those pics , 20 yards of mulch would be higher then the fence ...................she picked it up , she drive a 18 wheeler i dont think so , maybe 20 bags ..................by the way the pics look there is no edging ..............and who pulls weeds out of cracks , round up ................
look at the pics $200 is the right price , the customer is not the one to pay because you work slow...............................................................:nono:

Was that you in the picture, not wearing a shirt, wearing sneakers.....DUDE

Charles
07-24-2008, 02:31 PM
Charles, I happen to use a fork shovel and rake to spread mulch, so that means I'm worth less $? Get real, just because I didn't use a expensive piece of equipment, I'm worth less? Your crazy. I've only been in the business for a short time but every customer so far has liked the finished product very much and felt they paid a fair price to have it done. I get $80 a yard installed plus weeding time if needed and they're more then happy. I guess if I go out and buy a skidloader and pull up in that I can charge twice the price! :rolleyes:

No, I am saying you could charge the same amount and get the job done faster and therefore make more money per hour. According to somebody above, 20 yards equals 60 to 80 wheel barrels of mulch. What would be crazy is loading 60 to 80 wheel barrels of mulch and spreading it with a pitch fork:rolleyes: The customer is not likely to pay you for making a career out of spreading her 20 yards of mulch

LushGreenLawn
07-24-2008, 03:39 PM
After seeing that website I am speechless...

BTW, I'll be the A-hole to ask. I notice you offer weed control, do you have a pesticide certification?

If not, Yank that off your page real quick, and call your local AG department and start the process.

topsites
07-25-2008, 01:16 AM
No, I am saying you could charge the same amount and get the job done faster and therefore make more money per hour. According to somebody above, 20 yards equals 60 to 80 wheel barrels of mulch. What would be crazy is loading 60 to 80 wheel barrels of mulch and spreading it with a pitch fork:rolleyes: The customer is not likely to pay you for making a career out of spreading her 20 yards of mulch

hmmm...
Just some thoughts...
Now my cubic yards take 6 barrows each so 20 c.y.'s would be closer to 120 loads, and I do spread them with just a pitchfork. Now I get anywhere from 60-80 per cubic yard delivered and spread but that's MY mulch!

You see...
When I do mulch I like to do the math, I like to find out how much I think it is I need, then I really like to take that drive out there and have them load it up for me, too.

Why that is so...
1. Because when a customer orders their own mulch I'm stuck with their math.
2. They usually order too much, it likely would have been cheaper to get me to do the whole thing in the first place.
> So that doesn't work, they think it's cheaper their way around.
3. I have no real way of knowing if that pile of mulch really is as many cubic yards as they say it is.
> Maybe it's 20, but what if it's 21 or 22, I have no way of knowing.
>> Hell NO I'm not counting out 120 barrows just to be sure, and what if I do and come up with 130, what then?
4. Because the worst part is, the only reason most of them who order it themselves do that is to SAVE money!
5. Last but not least, all that figuring and ordering and driving out there, that's the FUN part lol

And I wouldn't mind them saving a dollar except this creates a problem:
The mulch yard charges me the same as they do the customer.
No, actually I get a small discount as a contractor, which that helps pay for part of my delivery fee.
And they have a delivery fee, too.

So HOW in the world is the customer going to save money?
They already paid the mulch guys, and I know the mulch guy didn't give a discount.
So now it's up to me?
That's crazy, and that is why I fairly and categorically refuse to spread other people's mulch.
That's assuming they didn't already try and order an extra yard or two and slip it in to that 20 yard pile.
Which, what if they really did order only 20 but the guys at the mulch yard loaded it heaped, same dang thing.
Now if they load me heaped, so be it, but it's my deal.


Bottom line: He who orders it, spreads it too.
Yes sir, don't take away all the fancy planning and the hip-hip-hoorah part of it which is the fun part of the job and then expect me to do the grunt work, that's BS.

farmboy52787
07-25-2008, 01:32 AM
Ok, this is what happened. I offered the lady my services to install new mulch(Removed the old mulch, weeded the garden, and installed new mulch) so she went and got her own on her way home on day. I spent about 8 hours working on the mulching, and weeding cracks in her driveway.

Once we were finished i wanted atleast 600. She told me it was to much and its not her fault because we didnt discuss the pricing but i told her before hand everything is listed on my website if she ever has pricing questions. She checked it out and accepted it.
But she ended up only giving me 200 because what can i do she didnt sign a contract.

Rookie move i know, I just started and thought people had integrity.

There was 20 cubic yards. Check out my work on my website

http://www.kuiklawncareandlandscaping.com/apps/photos/album.jsp?albumID=1715362

That doesnt look like 20 yards of mulch, and 20 yards of mulch with 2 people would take more than 8 hours. 600 seems very steep and it sounds like she bought it on her own? You'd be averaging $80 an hour, wow. I dont think anyone would hire you for that rate, I would have been all set with 300, and to top it off she helped you to? Next time just say hey my hourly labor rate per man hour is $ and say thats what i'll charge when I'm done.

deerhunter271
07-25-2008, 05:21 AM
Get your License and Insurance it cost me roughly 504.00 a year with Erie Insurance and one rock through a window or worse hitting someone with flying debris will eat up everything you can make in a year. With advertising that you have both keeping your equipment clean and in good condition and dressing professional with a nice logo people will take you serious an if you do quality work you will do fine, my 5 cents.
Good Luck

Cashio13
07-25-2008, 09:22 PM
No, I am saying you could charge the same amount and get the job done faster and therefore make more money per hour. According to somebody above, 20 yards equals 60 to 80 wheel barrels of mulch. What would be crazy is loading 60 to 80 wheel barrels of mulch and spreading it with a pitch fork:rolleyes: The customer is not likely to pay you for making a career out of spreading her 20 yards of mulch

Last season i spread 30 yards of mulch in two days with my business partner. Some landscapers who have the smaller landscape businesses, like him, cannot afford to rent the machinery needed, let alone be able to handle it. He cant handle spelling let alone a kabota or skid steer. Also, during this 30 yards, probably about 5 of the 30 could have been spread with a blower or skid steer/kabota. Give the kid a break, he is trying, and yes he did get ripped off but it is way to late for that now. All he can do is learn for the future.

Also, Army-Guard89, if you're reading this...i hope you learn to wear sleeveless shirts at least because i don't care who you are, if you are working for me, you are wearing a shirt. Customers don't want landscapers with no shirts and their pants sagging. Hope you don't take all this information from everyone on this thread personal becuase it is all a good teaching aid. I hope you can learn from it and improve your company.