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Waterit
07-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Cemetary we do control work for took a lightning hit, wiped out 33 solenoids, 2 mini-cliks, and one of 2 Hunter PSRB's. Didn't touch the ICC's.

Replaced all the solenoids, re-ohm from controllers, still have 7 zones dead. So we hook up 521, and all 7 track perfectly from field to controller and vice-versa. But still show dead when ohming.

Found a looped common, cut it apart, and discovered that BOTH sides of loop had to connected to get a reading. Have never seen that before, makes no sense to me, should be able to get a reading from either side if truly looped, or at one side if not.

Headed back there today to do some digging and try to find where the problem lies.

Anyone have any thoughts on the common thing?

Wet_Boots
07-22-2008, 10:46 AM
You probably want to try that fault-locator thingy. I used to follow defective cables their entire length, even though they had intermittent faults that would kill the zones.

Wet_Boots
07-22-2008, 11:15 AM
Did you ever use any of the 'grounding planes' or whatever it was that the CadWeld folks called them?

Waterit
07-22-2008, 07:27 PM
By fault-locator thingy I assume you mean an A-frame, aka pulser, aka 901. Good thought, but there are so many utility lines run through this place that the 901 (or its operator) got tricked 4 times today into following an electrical line for site lighting.

I've never used cad-welds or grounding planes. To the best of my knowledge, neither did the genius who did the original install.

I located a place where the wires cross a roadway and then split in different directions. Think I'm going to dig up and cut in there, and then test in all 3 directions. Guessing that the fault lies on the common.

Waterit
07-22-2008, 10:38 PM
116 views and only WB has weighed in.

What's a guy gotta do to get a little ad-vice around here?

Mike Leary
07-22-2008, 10:42 PM
[QUOTE=Waterit;2430826What's a guy gotta do to get a little ad-vice around here?[/QUOTE]

Stay in line, my problem was first.

Waterit
07-22-2008, 11:16 PM
OK, OK, I'll take a number and get in line.:nono:

May I point out that your problem has generated 16 pages of posts, and you're no closer to finding the valve?

I just want to know if anyone has ever encountered the issue with the common before.

Mike Leary
07-22-2008, 11:19 PM
I just want to know if anyone has ever encountered the issue with the common before.

No...............

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-22-2008, 11:24 PM
116 views and only WB has weighed in.

What's a guy gotta do to get a little ad-vice around here?

It may be over my head. But having said that I'm confused by the 901 following utilities. If you have accurately tracked your common and marked it the fault finder should only be probing the 521 path you have laid out for it. Also are the 7 non workers on the same part of the common? It sounds like you have a grounding fault that the 901 is going to have to find for you. I agree the problem is in the common. Also is it possible this problem predates the lightning?

Wet_Boots
07-22-2008, 11:25 PM
Try the tracking with a lower output level. Harder to follow, but you may detect a fault that stronger signals will leapfrog.

Waterit
07-22-2008, 11:37 PM
It may be over my head. But having said that I'm confused by the 901 following utilities. If you have accurately tracked your common and marked it the fault finder should only be probing the 521 path you have laid out for it. Also are the 7 non workers on the same part of the common? It sounds like you have a grounding fault that the 901 is going to have to find for you. I agree the problem is in the common. Also is it possible this problem predates the lightning?

I think the 901 followed the light wiring because lightning hit both (the lighting system is also out, should have mentioned that) in the general physical area. Without endless digging I'll never know, and the electrician was totally uncooperative when I asked to trace the lighting wiring.:angry:

The problem definitely does not predate the lightning, we just went through the system the last week in June.

7 nonworkers seem to be on same part of common - the part that is looped and doesn't act right (neither side is "live" until both are connected). 2 of 7 on ICC#1, the other 5 on ICC#2. No measurable continuity between the commons at the controllers. All 7 valves in same physical area, south of a roadway. BUT other valves on ICC#2 also in same area work fine, and 1 of the 2 from ICC#1 is straddled by valves that do work.:dizzy:

:::::brain starts melting down and dripping out of right ear::::

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-22-2008, 11:41 PM
I think the 901 followed the light wiring because lightning hit both (the lighting system is also out, should have mentioned that) in the general physical area. Without endless digging I'll never know, and the electrician was totally uncooperative when I asked to trace the lighting wiring.:angry:

The problem definitely does not predate the lightning, we just went through the system the last week in June.

7 nonworkers seem to be on same part of common - the part that is looped and doesn't act right (neither side is "live" until both are connected). 2 of 7 on ICC#1, the other 5 on ICC#2. No measurable continuity between the commons at the controllers. All 7 valves in same physical area, south of a roadway. BUT other valves on ICC#2 also in same area work fine, and 1 of the 2 from ICC#1 is straddled by valves that do work.:dizzy:

:::::brain starts melting down and dripping out of right ear::::

I really feel that I need to be there........:dizzy:

Waterit
07-22-2008, 11:43 PM
I really feel that I need to be there........:dizzy:

Come, on, it's only a few hours drive - next weekend is the annual Pensacola Beach Bushwhacker Festival featuring the band "Lit" and the Molly Ringwalds. Seriously.

Mike Leary
07-22-2008, 11:46 PM
:::::brain starts melting down and dripping out of right ear::::

Welcome to Lawnsite during the season.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-22-2008, 11:51 PM
Come, on, it's only a few hours drive - next weekend is the annual Pensacola Beach Bushwhacker Festival featuring the band "Lit" and the Molly Ringwalds. Seriously.

D-mn tempting. Leave my problems to tackle yours. Then I can drive to that Peninsula ML lives on and tackle his problem. Why does that appeal to me more than facing the same customer for the umpteenth time.:confused:

Mike Leary
07-22-2008, 11:57 PM
Then I can drive to that Peninsula ML lives on and tackle his problem.

We have cool hats, too.

Waterit
07-23-2008, 12:27 AM
We have cool hats, too.

::::thinks hard on how to top all-too-tempting hat offer...::::

Don't bikinis and Bushwhackers beat hats?

geardriven
07-23-2008, 02:40 AM
haha..that hat fits the Gulf Coast area.:) j/k
I thought there was ramped naked sun bathing on the Gulf Coast?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-23-2008, 07:02 AM
I'm assuming you know where all the valves are. Are you tracking the common from the valves back towards the controller? I'm not sure what the heat of lightning does to copper but I can imagine it melts the jacket among other things. This may be one of those jobs where you find where it is good from the clock/then good to the valves and run new wire between those points.

londonrain
07-23-2008, 07:46 AM
I would follow the common wire and find the last valve working and also the next valve in line that is not working.... Then I would run a jumper for the common above ground, from the good valve to the bad valve and test. If wiring is now good then you know the problem is in the common and the area that is bad..... you then will need a ground fault locator ... If it is bad near a drive or road start looking for a sleeve, I have seen water in a sleeve that causes havoc when hit with a power surge IE: fried wires...

Waterit
07-23-2008, 09:31 AM
I'm assuming you know where all the valves are. Are you tracking the common from the valves back towards the controller? I'm not sure what the heat of lightning does to copper but I can imagine it melts the jacket among other things. This may be one of those jobs where you find where it is good from the clock/then good to the valves and run new wire between those points.

All valve locations are known. 521'd common AND hot from valves to controllers and vice-versa. Solenoids ohmed out fine at valves AND from controllers. But no joy when giving manual or auto start from controllers.
Checked voltage on 2 of the valves with controller on, got very small readings. Unhooked solenoids and checked voltage again, readings higher but still not adequate.

I would follow the common wire and find the last valve working and also the next valve in line that is not working.... Then I would run a jumper for the common above ground, from the good valve to the bad valve and test. If wiring is now good then you know the problem is in the common and the area that is bad..... you then will need a ground fault locator ... If it is bad near a drive or road start looking for a sleeve, I have seen water in a sleeve that causes havoc when hit with a power surge IE: fried wires...

I'll try that today. I dread the idea of having to run new wire, but it looks like the only fix. Wonder what buried treasures I'll find - it is a cemetary, after all:laugh:

Waterit
07-23-2008, 03:29 PM
Get to the job, get ground fault locator all set up and BAM! Lightning popping all around, raining so hard you can't see across the street. Ah, well, tomorrow is another day...:cry:

Waterit
07-30-2008, 07:47 PM
It's OVER! Cemetary is back up and running - replaced some bad solenoids, went to fault-locating, and found faults all over the place. So we isolated the wiring: went to 1st working valve and worked our way back towards controller, digging up and repairing every fault (burnt-up wire, both common and hots). Had faults in an unsleeved road-crossing, so we jacked a new pipe through and ran some multi-strand. Finally get back to valve closest to controller, and find that 2 hots are damaged between it and controller with another road crossing and a sidewalk in between. Tomorrow we punch the road and the sidewalk, pull new wires out, and re-connect everything.

17 solenoids, over 100 DBY's, new transformer for Hunter PSR-B, couple hundred feet of wire, some 6" VB's at splice locations.

Oh yeah, found the mainline leaks in 2 places also. And that the mainline is tied into BOTH 7-1/2HP submersibles.

Gonna start a new thread, 'cause I got some ideas and questions about the pump/mainline setup.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-30-2008, 08:00 PM
It's OVER! Cemetary is back up and running - replaced some bad solenoids, went to fault-locating, and found faults all over the place. So we isolated the wiring: went to 1st working valve and worked our way back towards controller, digging up and repairing every fault (burnt-up wire, both common and hots). Had faults in an unsleeved road-crossing, so we jacked a new pipe through and ran some multi-strand. Finally get back to valve closest to controller, and find that 2 hots are damaged between it and controller with another road crossing and a sidewalk in between. Tomorrow we punch the road and the sidewalk, pull new wires out, and re-connect everything.

17 solenoids, over 100 DBY's, new transformer for Hunter PSR-B, couple hundred feet of wire, some 6" VB's at splice locations.

Oh yeah, found the mainline leaks in 2 places also. And that the mainline is tied into BOTH 7-1/2HP submersibles.

Gonna start a new thread, 'cause I got some ideas and questions about the pump/mainline setup.

A butterfly flaps its wings in WA State ans a manatee swims in FLA STATE;) Whatever but glad you got that biatch out of the way. not one problem but umpteen problems.

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 09:15 PM
A butterfly flaps its wings in WA State and a manatee swims in FLA STATE;)

Words of wisdom from the Larry McMurty of the sprinkler world.

Waterit
08-01-2008, 08:49 PM
Here's what we found today at the cemetary while finishing up the lightning repair:

a cross in the 2-1/2" main straight out of the road crossing
115994

Here's what we did to fix it
115995

Anyone ever use pipe insulation for wire conduit? This was the location of a couple of the faults
115996

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 08:52 PM
OMG..............nice pics. :cry: Only complete idiots use white pvc for conduit.

Waterit
08-01-2008, 09:10 PM
OMG..............nice pics. :cry: Only complete idiots use white pvc for conduit.

Now I know I'm not a COMPLETE idiot - I do use gray!

No comment on the pipe insulation?

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 09:33 PM
No comment on the pipe insulation?

We'll let Boots and Krill figure that out.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-01-2008, 10:42 PM
OMG..............nice pics. :cry: Only complete idiots use white pvc for conduit.

We Texans are not complete idiots.:angry:

Dirty Water
08-01-2008, 11:14 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=115995&d=1217634411

I see you and I are the only people not afraid to use pressurized slipfixes.

Never had one fail. Not even big ones like that.

Waterit
08-02-2008, 12:39 AM
I see you and I are the only people not afraid to use pressurized slipfixes.

Never had one fail. Not even big ones like that.

Heck no I'm not afraid. Slipfix is fully extended, as it's supposed to be. Wouldn't use one going into a 90 or a bullhead T, though.

That one is 2-1/2, I've used 4's also.

Didja see the pic of the one on the 7-1/2HP sub pump I posted? Now that's not something I'd do...

Dirty Water
08-02-2008, 12:52 AM
Heck no I'm not afraid. Slipfix is fully extended, as it's supposed to be. Wouldn't use one going into a 90 or a bullhead T, though.

Not much point at using a repair fitting before a 90 period.



Didja see the pic of the one on the 7-1/2HP sub pump I posted? Now that's not
something I'd do...

Not yet, I'll go to that thread next :D

Kiril
08-02-2008, 02:40 AM
OMG..............nice pics. :cry: Only complete idiots use white pvc for conduit.

Not that I disagree ML, but why does it matter if it is buried? If your concerned about the color, paint it gray. :laugh:

irrig8r
08-02-2008, 02:46 AM
Guess I missed why you replaced the cross..was there a crack? loose fitting?

irrig8r
08-02-2008, 02:48 AM
Not that I disagree ML, but why does it matter if it is buried? If your concerned about the color, paint it gray. :laugh:

Murphy's Law. Maybe someone will cut into it thinking it's a lateral someday.

irrig8r
08-02-2008, 02:51 AM
We'll let Boots and Krill figure that out.

Nice raspberries.

Waterit
08-02-2008, 03:14 AM
Guess I missed why you replaced the cross..was there a crack? loose fitting?

Leaking out of right side - original connection was piped at the slightest bit of an angle, finally resulted in pipe pulling out of cross enough to leak

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-02-2008, 08:59 AM
Murphy's Law. Maybe someone will cut into it thinking it's a lateral someday.

The only conduit around here is used for going under driveways, concrete, etc. If it is white I know it is irrigation related. If I ever ran into a gray pipe in the same ditch as the irrigation I'd be a nervous wreck.

AI Inc
08-02-2008, 09:04 AM
Had to do a repair a few weeks back after lamposts were installed. Electrician hired an irr contractor to pull pipe and then he fed line voltage thru it.It is 3 inches away from our poly, same manufacturer ( oil creek) I can see somone cutting into that pipe at some point.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-02-2008, 09:04 AM
Heck no I'm not afraid. Slipfix is fully extended, as it's supposed to be. Wouldn't use one going into a 90 or a bullhead T, though.

That one is 2-1/2, I've used 4's also.

Didja see the pic of the one on the 7-1/2HP sub pump I posted? Now that's not something I'd do...

In that case a slip fix would be stationary. But even a fully extended slip fix can still shift like a piston under certain circumstances. I don't mind them on laterals but on mains we avoid if at all possible. On that repair assuming depth was not an issue I would have added another tee and three elbowed one line. Just my thing not a critique.

bicmudpuppy
08-02-2008, 09:07 AM
In that case a slip fix would be stationary. But even a fully extended slip fix can still shift like a piston under certain circumstances. I don't mind them on laterals but on mains we avoid if at all possible. On that repair assuming depth was not an issue I would have added another tee and three elbowed one line. Just my thing not a critique.

NOT just YOUR thing. A "thing" with anyone who has seen/watched the way a slip fix installed in that manner expands and contracts and eventually blows UP. Preferably NOT in my face, but just like the odds of that closest head NOT being pointed at me, I'll stick to dropping nickels and quarters for my gambling. Only way I bet on irrigation is against myself in these cases.

Waterit
08-06-2008, 01:43 AM
The latest from the burial grounds:

All valves located, all wires testing good, time to hook back up and fire the 2ICC's, right?

EXCEPT: still have 3 zones on 1 controller and 2 on the other that ohm out either dead or faulted, minutes after I sparked them off using a hot wire from the TEST terminal out to where we found the faults (50' +/-) and they operated just fine. Cut everything back apart, same thing, no joy from 3 on 1 and 2 on the other. Jumper commons together, nothing. Go back and check each solenoid again, they're fine. So there must be another location that there's a fault either in the common for these zones (first 3 are in line with each other about 60 feet apart, the other 2 way on the other side of everything but also about 60 feet apart). Maybe it took getting the soil wet for it to rear its ugly head.

First one to make it down here and fix this mess gets to back-seat with the Blue Angels.:laugh:

Waterit
08-06-2008, 01:46 AM
The latest from the burial grounds:

All valves located, all wires testing good, time to hook back up and fire the 2ICC's, right?

EXCEPT: still have 3 zones on 1 controller and 2 on the other that ohm out either dead or faulted, minutes after I sparked them off using a hot wire from the TEST terminal out to where we found the faults (50' +/-) and they operated just fine. Cut everything back apart, same thing, no joy from 3 on 1 and 2 on the other. Jumper commons together, nothing. Go back and check each solenoid again, they're fine. So there must be another location that there's a fault in the common for these zones. The 3 are in line with each other about 60 feet on center, with operative valves at either end of the run. The other 2 way are way on the other side of everything but also about 60 feet apart and the valves adjacent to them also work. Maybe it took getting the soil wet for the faults to rear their ugly pointed little heads?

First one to make it down here and fix this mess gets to back-seat with the Blue Angels.:laugh:

bicmudpuppy
08-06-2008, 08:27 AM
5 valves split between two ICC's tested and worked fine and then did not work later? Did they test OK again if you isolated them from the controllers? That may sound far fetched, but I have seen exactly that happen w/ side by side ICC's. The fault was actually in the controllers and it was caused when the controllers had both run at the same time w/ shared common. A phase problem occurs when both controllers are running zones together. Best possible fix is a larger separate transformer to run both controllers if they are close enough to manage it. If not, they make isolators/filters that can be installed on the common wire. I don't even remember what it was called, but I've used them before and they work.

Waterit
08-06-2008, 09:32 AM
5 valves split between two ICC's tested and worked fine and then did not work later? Did they test OK again if you isolated them from the controllers? That may sound far fetched, but I have seen exactly that happen w/ side by side ICC's. The fault was actually in the controllers and it was caused when the controllers had both run at the same time w/ shared common. A phase problem occurs when both controllers are running zones together. Best possible fix is a larger separate transformer to run both controllers if they are close enough to manage it. If not, they make isolators/filters that can be installed on the common wire. I don't even remember what it was called, but I've used them before and they work.

Will try that today - ran out of energy yesterday, had also hit frustration limit and was ready to hurt somebody:laugh:.

Put an oversized trans on each controller? or one for both? They already have Hunter's PSR-B installed on each just to pull in pump-start. And won't pulling factory trans void warranty?

Sounds like I may need to call Mr. Hunter Rep and get some face time...

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 03:50 PM
If not, they make isolators/filters that can be installed on the common wire. I don't even remember what it was called, but I've used them before and they work.

I've had the same problem, I think I got the isolators at a supply house &
had the electricians install them, they are tricky to wire.

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 04:38 PM
You might just try switching the 24VAC wires on one of the controllers, if there is a phase problem.

Waterit
08-06-2008, 07:48 PM
Update from today's expo:

Now have all solenoids and wires behaving correctly from valve locations all the way back to area between controllers and 1st road crossing. When connected to controller, still get bad ohm reads on 5 zones on #1 and 2 zones on #2. Got to be in wiring between controller and 1st road crossing. Tomorrow we drape new wire above-grade and re-test, if all is good it's all over but the burying.

If not, you'll find me flipping hamburgers at McDonalds, and loving it!

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 07:51 PM
If not, you'll find me flipping hamburgers at McDonalds, and loving it!

Sounds like my 521 nightmare, would you supersize the fries please?

Waterit
08-06-2008, 07:58 PM
Sounds like my 521 nightmare, would you supersize the fries please?

It's been real similar, Mike. Hours of frustration knowing I'm doing everything right and still not getting anywhere.

Found a valve today that even the head maintenance guy didn't know about and he's been there since right after system was put in. Of course it was under a headstone that I had to get them to move - scary.

Haven't found where the commons are tied together, and probably never will. Should this be a concern going forward? What are these isolators you and Bic refer to?

bcg
08-06-2008, 08:10 PM
So you spend all this time out there on something that really isn't your fault but by the same token, they didn't do anything wrong either, do you bill for all of it? I ask because last week I spent 3 days on a job tracking down wire problems and finding valves but I just couldn't bring myself to charge full price for the job (would have been @ $1700 just for labor). Now I know that had I had an employee there instead of me, I'd have billed the time and not given it a second thought. I have no trouble billing whatever time it takes for the landscape maintenance crews but when it's me, I tend to get soft. Just curious if I have a problem or others do the same.

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 08:21 PM
What are these isolators you and Bic refer to?

They are a clear plastic "ice cube" that prohibit dual voltages at the same
time. Do you have Platt Electric in your area? Dual clocks suck unless
you've got Rain Master or Calsense.

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 08:27 PM
I wonder if "ice cube" refers to an isolation relay of some sort. Two separate coils, and the first one energized 'locks out' the second one.

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 08:28 PM
I wonder if "ice cube" refers to an isolation relay of some sort. Two separate coils, and the first one energized 'locks out' the second one.

Yup, exactly, you need one at each clock. If there is a draw back to shared common, that's it.

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 08:36 PM
Yup, exactly, you need one at each clock. If there is a draw back to shared common, that's it.Yeah, I could see it being simpler to have one relay at each clock. I had something similar with connecting two electromechanical controllers together, but it was the master valves being the problem, with one controller's master valve terminal supplying power to the second controller. Similar solution, but with one multi-input relay.

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 08:41 PM
With double clocks, the chances of the contractor using too much pipe dope while
programming could fry both solenoids that were operating at the same time.

Waterit
08-06-2008, 09:03 PM
So you spend all this time out there on something that really isn't your fault but by the same token, they didn't do anything wrong either, do you bill for all of it? I ask because last week I spent 3 days on a job tracking down wire problems and finding valves but I just couldn't bring myself to charge full price for the job (would have been @ $1700 just for labor). Now I know that had I had an employee there instead of me, I'd have billed the time and not given it a second thought. I have no trouble billing whatever time it takes for the landscape maintenance crews but when it's me, I tend to get soft. Just curious if I have a problem or others do the same.

This is a straight repair, 100% billable act-of-God damage (lightning). The cemetary administrator commented today that our job would have been easier with an as-built and a properly-installed control system. I replaced the controllers months previous to this lightning hit, my stuff was untouched other than a transformer.

Labor bill so far is knocking on 5K, haven't figured up materials yet.

Is my conscience bothering me over what this invoice will turn out to be? Not one bit, not after what I've been going through mentally (let's not even mention how hard physically between the heavy clay soil and heat indexes in the 100's) on this job.

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 09:09 PM
our job would have been easier with an as-built and a properly-installed control system.

Gee, never heard that line before.:rolleyes:

Waterit
08-06-2008, 09:10 PM
They are a clear plastic "ice cube" that prohibit dual voltages at the same
time. Do you have Platt Electric in your area? Dual clocks suck unless
you've got Rain Master or Calsense.

Again, I didn't do the original install. At the time this system was put in, digital wasn't available - the original controllers were RC's, one with a slave, with huge oversized after-market transformers in place of RB's factory transformers to be able to pull in the magnetic starters for the pumps.

I'm familiar with ice cubes, use them when we have 480 3phase mag starters to pull in. 24V from the controller pulls in ice cube, which pulls in 110, the coil voltage on the mags.

No Platt Electric - Graybar and Irby and some independents.

How about a quick diagram of how you'd wire the cubes?

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 09:55 PM
How about a quick diagram of how you'd wire the cubes?

Quick diagram? Call the electricians.

Waterit
08-06-2008, 10:00 PM
Gee, why didn't I think of that? Cuz it's an IRRIGATION forum, can't have no stinkin' electrical diagrams on here.:nono:

Seriously, asked an electrician about using ice cubes a few years ago and his reply was that he liked them in all his drinks.:rolleyes:

We know more about our stuff than they do. Heck, we know more about their stuff than they know about ours.

I'll handle it the old-fashioned way: figure it out my ownself.:weightlifter:

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 10:19 PM
I'll handle it the old-fashioned way: figure it out my ownself.

And screw it up.

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 10:39 PM
I forget, are the controllers mounted side-by-side?

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 10:41 PM
It's a programming deal, no pipe dope.

Waterit
08-06-2008, 10:44 PM
And screw it up.

Probably.

I forget, are the controllers mounted side-by-side?

Yes, about 18" apart. I'll post pics tomorrow, unless I kill myself fooling with ice cubes.

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 10:51 PM
The isolation relays will have the effect of allowing only one controller at a time to operate zone(s)

Waterit
08-06-2008, 10:54 PM
The isolation relays will have the effect of allowing only one controller at a time to operate zone(s)

Now that's something I hadn't thought about, and creates quite a problem.

::::Honey, where's that number for McDonalds?::::

Waterit
08-06-2008, 10:55 PM
The isolation relays will have the effect of allowing only one controller at a time to operate zone(s)

Now that's something I hadn't thought about, and creates quite a problem. Only have an 8-hour watering window and 33 zones of rotors.

::::Honey, where's that number for McDonalds?::::

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 11:02 PM
If there is a phase problem between the two controllers, you could fix it by reversing the output wires on one of the 24V transformers.

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 11:06 PM
::::Honey, where's that number for McDonalds?::::

Home Depot has openings.:rolleyes:

WalkGood
08-06-2008, 11:14 PM
If there is a phase problem between the two controllers, you could fix it by reversing the output wires on one of the 24V transformers.


What if... they are plugged into two different outlets that are on different phases of the property service (different legs of 120v of the 240v or 3-phase)?

Waterit
08-07-2008, 12:44 AM
What if... they are plugged into two different outlets that are on different phases of the property service (different legs of 120v of the 240v or 3-phase)?

They're plugged into the same outlet, 120VAC.

Waterit
08-07-2008, 12:45 AM
Home Depot has openings.:rolleyes:

I like Lowe's better. HD carries a wider array of substandard irrigation parts, but their logo's colors are ugly.

Mike Leary
08-07-2008, 12:55 AM
I like Lowe's better. HD carries a wider array of substandard irrigation parts, but their logo's colors are ugly.

Once you get into the corporate structure, you could change the world,
as we know it. "Waterit, customer on isle four."

Waterit
08-07-2008, 12:57 AM
I am at a loss for words.*trucewhiteflag*

bicmudpuppy
08-07-2008, 01:23 AM
There is the answer I was hoping for to help you. The controllers are plugged into the same circuit AND they are only 18" apart. It is a modern system w/ modern valves. You SHOULD be able to run both ICC's one transformer. Run a pair of 14UF wires from one controller's 24VAC terminals to the other and disconnect on transformer. Switching the wires like was also suggested is SUPPOSED to work, but it is still possible (more remotely) to get phase problems using separate transformers. If your zones are at the max for amps, then you might need a larger transformer to run both controllers from, but even that would be cheaper than the isolators they sold me years ago (I can't remember what they were called, but they prevented/filtered the feed back from the controllers into each other. My sales guy recomended them and acquired them for me. (Yes, I do realize how much help that is) The cost on them was around $100 each. We had clocks on opposite sides of the property and everything shared a pair of MV's as well. Major nightmare that I don't miss at all.

Waterit
08-08-2008, 01:37 AM
It's over - we finished today. Everything runs perfectly, Smart Ports installed, just have to re-do the well-outlet piping in galvanized and it's completely over except for the check-depositing!?!payup:cool2:

Pics and details over the weekend for those interested.

Waterit
08-08-2008, 11:10 PM
Pics of controls from the burial grounds:

The ICC's:
116539

The mag starters (sorry, the PSR-B pics were too blurry to post):
116541

Clock 1 before rewiring:
116542

Clock 1 after rewiring - not quite Leary-level, but neat nonetheless:
116543

Mike Leary
08-08-2008, 11:25 PM
Pics of controls

Not too shabby....B-.

Kiril
08-09-2008, 01:50 AM
Clock 1 after rewiring - not quite Leary-level, but neat nonetheless:

ML give new meaning to anal retentive when it comes to wiring controllers. :rolleyes: