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View Full Version : The stupidity of some companies


Gravel Rat
07-22-2008, 09:21 PM
Talking to a friend today asking why he quit his job he said it was from the stupidity.

Not going to mention the company name but anyhow they have this graduated pay you have to work a year before they give you a raise. They start you off on a low wage something like 16 dollars per hour and it takes you 3-4 years to even make 23 dollars per hour. Its all about cost cutting they pay the employees based on time spent with the company instead of experience. They have some employees dumb as a lump of coal making more per hour than a guy with tons more experience.

The friend was promised he would get top hourly rate because he has 25 years more experience than the other employees. They refused to may him more because "legally" they didn't have to. The stupid part the managers of the company don't give a rats --- all they want is cost cutting. They lost a guy that could do any job but because he was with the company only a year they wouldn't pay more than 16 dollars.

Makes you wonder the company is short of employees and they wonder why :rolleyes:

There are many companies doing that now they want experienced employees and pay McDonalds wages.

That just pizzes a guy off when you hear about stuff like that. Company screams we are short of employees. The truth doesn't come out that they pay welfare wages and treat the employees bad. They will be advertising in the paper again looking for employees.

I don't know why companies think they can get employees to work for 16 dollars per hour thats what you pay a highschool student to cut your lawn.

The B.C. gov't better make minimum wage atleast 15 dollars per hour even 20 dollars per hour is starvation wages.

Scag48
07-22-2008, 09:31 PM
Minimum wage $15/hr.?!?!? You are smoking some good stuff up there. Get in the real world dude, minimum wage is just that, minimum. If you're actually worth your salt, there shouldn't need to be a minimum wage. I haven't worked for minimum wage in 10 years and I'm only 21.

Junior M
07-22-2008, 09:35 PM
operators make that much up there? the best paying job here as an operator is to work for your self! the best paying job as an operator working for someone else is like ten or twelve dollars an hour working for the state running a backhoe.

Gravel Rat
07-22-2008, 09:45 PM
The cost of living here in B.C. is very high. You make 15 dollars gross after taxes you make 10. You make the current minimum wage 7.50 per hour after taxes your probably making 5.

My job I make 21 after deductions and taxes I make 15.

One part of cost of living you pay 700-1200 dollars a month for rent on a basment suite or a small house. That takes up 90% of your monthly income.

If you own a diesel truck the price of diesel is 5.85 a gallon. I don't know what gas is.

A good excavator operator makes upto 30 dollars per hour. Labourers on a construction site make 21-23 dollars per hour. A carpenter with tools is making 35-40 dollars per hour.

A excavation company has to pay minimum 20 dollars per hour if they want to keep a employee.

I made 150 dollars with my truck just the other day I worked 2 hours.

Companies have to pay a decent wage I won't work for less than 20 dollars per hour cash.

A experienced excavator operator isn't going to work for anything less than 25 dollars per hour. I know the operators in the bush make 32 dollars per hour.

Alberta pays a little better wages.

bobcat_ron
07-22-2008, 10:06 PM
"It's not how much you make, it's how much you take" is a good expression I have learned over the years.

Minimum wage gets you maximum laziness.

Our local Municipality has been cost cutting too, giving high ranked jobs in charge of road crews and other important jobs to people that have "shoe salesman" and "kindergarten teacher" written on their resumes, it's all about the "deal" they get, good pay with a huge contract, and no brains.

Gravel Rat
07-22-2008, 10:26 PM
You pay a poor wage you get a employee that doesn't work that good or like Ron says lazy.

The company I'am talking about is just going to get themselves to a point they will have no employees. Once you get a bad reputation as a bad company they will never find employees.

AWJ Services
07-22-2008, 10:51 PM
Could you imagine being a waitress at the diner Gravel Rat frequents for lunch.
I bet they try too run and hide when they see him pull up.
Habitual complainers.

crab
07-22-2008, 10:54 PM
ha ha ha ha ha thats funny!what do you tip for a bowl of cornflakes.

SiteSolutions
07-22-2008, 10:59 PM
If you're going to b1tch about something at least have something legit to complain about. :rolleyes: 15 an hour. geez... try feeding a small family on $10/hr before tax and yes, that means about $6.50/hr after taxes.

Your cost of living is absolutely nuts though. We rented a nice small house for what you pay for a suite.

AWJ Services
07-22-2008, 11:08 PM
My Mom was a waitress for most of her life and she had her fair share of Gravel Rats.

dozerman21
07-22-2008, 11:14 PM
I think everyday must be Groundhog Day in Canada (and Lawnsite)... same rant, different day. GR- I've seen some of the fine looking women that have come out of Canada. They might be some good therapy for you... just don't start bitching about the economy to them, it might scare them away!:nono:

BayouFlyFisher
07-22-2008, 11:15 PM
Your friend didn't know the deal when he took the job?? If your friend is that good then surely he will move on to a better job anyway. And if the company is as bad as you think they are, he'll be better off too.

AWJ Services
07-22-2008, 11:18 PM
I've seen some of the fine looking women that have come out of Canada. They might be some good therapy for you.

I don't think his parents allow him too have women over yet.:dancing:

bobcat_ron
07-23-2008, 12:01 AM
Both Gravel Rat and myself both suffer from the same disease - Optical-rectum disease, it's where the nerve endings from our eyes are connected to our rectums, so we always have a sh*tty out look on life.

Gravel Rat
07-23-2008, 12:26 AM
Maybe to you guys in the USA 15 dollars per hour is a good wage but around here its a very low wage.

And its not my job I'am ranting about its just the stupidity that companies in B.C. are doing. Trucking is the worst they keep saying a shortage of truck drivers B.S. there are lots of truck drivers that won't work for my wages.

It is amazing how you guys in the USA think you can survive on a 10 dollar per hour wage.

Things are so much cheaper in the USA and you guys don't realize it. Just got my filters today I ordered from the USA all the way from New Jersey. The fuel filters I save 45 dollars each the oil filters were 24 dollars each.

Been looking at tires for my truck I need two steer tires in the USA the Michelins XZE are 328 dollars here in B.C. I'am looking at 380 dollars each.

Oh and the friend I have been talking about has got another job and making alot more money.

In the peak of the boom in areas like where I live 20 foot travel trailers with a extension cord for electricity and a garden hose for water was renting for 400-450 a month.

Scag48
07-23-2008, 01:31 AM
There's no work in BC but there is a shortage of operators and truck drivers? Please elaborate.

Gravel Rat
07-23-2008, 01:42 AM
The trucking companies keep saying there is shortage because they want cheaper labour. As for operators yes there is a shortage because quite a few headed to Alberta where your going to make more money.

There isn't much work for a operator right now with the boom slowing down in most areas of B.C. .

In the peak of the boom around my area people were put on a 2 year waiting list to get excavating work done. Now there is no waiting list the work dried up and now operators are lucky to have a job.

When the older generation does start to retire there will be a shortage of operators.

Too many companies have one thing on their mind and its fill their own pockets and screw everybody else.

Stillwater
07-23-2008, 02:14 AM
Talking to a friend today asking why he quit his job he said it was from the stupidity.

Not going to mention the company name but anyhow they have this graduated pay you have to work a year before they give you a raise. They start you off on a low wage something like 16 dollars per hour and it takes you 3-4 years to even make 23 dollars per hour. Its all about cost cutting they pay the employees based on time spent with the company instead of experience. They have some employees dumb as a lump of coal making more per hour than a guy with tons more experience.

The friend was promised he would get top hourly rate because he has 25 years more experience than the other employees. They refused to may him more because "legally" they didn't have to. The stupid part the managers of the company don't give a rats --- all they want is cost cutting. They lost a guy that could do any job but because he was with the company only a year they wouldn't pay more than 16 dollars.

Makes you wonder the company is short of employees and they wonder why :rolleyes:

There are many companies doing that now they want experienced employees and pay McDonalds wages.

That just pizzes a guy off when you hear about stuff like that. Company screams we are short of employees. The truth doesn't come out that they pay welfare wages and treat the employees bad. They will be advertising in the paper again looking for employees.

I don't know why companies think they can get employees to work for 16 dollars per hour thats what you pay a highschool student to cut your lawn.

The B.C. gov't better make minimum wage atleast 15 dollars per hour even 20 dollars per hour is starvation wages.




This is exactly how I run things, their is nothing wrong with it everyone is replaceable, in fact my guys who have been with me for years and loyal are 10 times more valuable than a guy who has more experience and demands more money. .....30 years in..... has shown me more experience is not necessarily better. I am in this business for one reason MONEY period why should I pay a operator with 20 years plus experience 28.00 per hour when a guy with less experience does the same thing. experience only goes so far. a guy with 30 years experience is the same as a guy with 15/20 years or less. the benefits of experience get diluted at some point. I put good coin in my guys pay.... But I put a absolute butt load more coin in mine..... and that will never change.

Prometheus
07-23-2008, 02:46 AM
help wanted 7.25 an hour, and the phone rings all day long with folks needing a job, times are hard!!! and that means cheap labor!!

Junior M
07-23-2008, 09:10 AM
This is exactly how I run things, their is nothing wrong with it everyone is replaceable, in fact my guys who have been with me for years and loyal are 10 times more valuable than a guy who has more experience and demands more money. .....30 years in..... has shown me more experience is not necessarily better. I am in this business for one reason MONEY period why should I pay a operator with 20 years plus experience 28.00 per hour when a guy with less experience does the same thing. experience only goes so far. a guy with 30 years experience is the same as a guy with 15/20 years or less. the benefits of experience get diluted at some point. I put good coin in my guys pay.... But I put a absolute butt load more coin in mine..... and that will never change.
i hate to tell you but there is a difference in expereince with operators! and experience goes a long way on a job. especially a really challenging job that needs done fast. and that thirty year guy will probably get it done faster and with better results than a fifteen year guy.

the guy that digs pools for us has been an operator for forty years and he has never done anything else i mean nothing. and your telling me you would pass him by for a guy who has only done it for fifteen years?

but i have seen the guy that digs pools for us, kenny, who has done it for fourty years miss a job cuz he broke his hip so we hired some guy that has only done it for like ten years. and kenny saves us so much work from having to set the walls on stuff to the bottom. i was there when we put the bottom in a pool kenny had dug and we had almost a constant 4 inch thickness where the other guy it was up and down becuz he wasnt as good of an operator so there fore the guy with more experience can save you time money and effort. but hey if you want to sacrifice quality and all the other aspects of good business for a few dollars than do it and watch your amount of work fall.

Stillwater
07-23-2008, 09:23 AM
i hate to tell you but there is a difference in expereince with operators! and experience goes a long way on a job. especially a really challenging job that needs done fast. and that thirty year guy will probably get it done faster and with better results than a fifteen year guy.

the guy that digs pools for us has been an operator for forty years and he has never done anything else i mean nothing. and your telling me you would pass him by for a guy who has only done it for fifteen years?

but i have seen the guy that digs pools for us, kenny, who has done it for fourty years miss a job cuz he broke his hip so we hired some guy that has only done it for like ten years. and kenny saves us so much work from having to set the walls on stuff to the bottom. i was there when we put the bottom in a pool kenny had dug and we had almost a constant 4 inch thickness where the other guy it was up and down becuz he wasnt as good of an operator so there fore the guy with more experience can save you time money and effort. but hey if you want to sacrifice quality and all the other aspects of good business for a few dollars than do it and watch your amount of work fall.


I am to tired to get into a arguement on this subject......

YellowDogSVC
07-23-2008, 09:48 AM
Maybe to you guys in the USA 15 dollars per hour is a good wage but around here its a very low wage.

h.

those of us in the US can learn from GR's rants. Taxes kill economies. Lowe taxes, gain production. Russia is doing it and their economy is booming in certain sectors. It is amazing what the government will put forth for a tax. There is a tax on everything and it is all OUR fault and the faults of our parents who voted these clowns in decades ago. A convoluted, complicated tax code hurts all businesses by keeping costs up when other costs go down. It seems that just more than a few short years ago diesel was just over a $1 a gallons and I was complaining about taxes. Now diesel here is nearly $5 a gallon and there hasn't been any tax relief to help the businesses out.
High costs are going to wreck small economies over the long haul . Many of us can weather a year or two of high costs and work shortages but over a long period of time it is no longer profitable. Something has to give and I think everyone should take extra time and vote for the local and state candidates that promise to help take the burdensome goverment down a notch or two. I doubt you will find anyone but it's worth looking for!

BrandonV
07-23-2008, 01:34 PM
preach on dog

Junior M
07-23-2008, 01:53 PM
i am with you there wont be a small company left if this keeps up. the landscaper i work subs work off an enviromental reclamation company and this company owns an electric company and the owner is letting my boss use the two guys for like a week or two cuz he doesnt have any work for them. the good thing is the company i work for runs such a small company that we are actually behind on our work becuz we are working on a HUGE LANDSCAPE JOB i mean huge!! and we just arent doing just the landscape we have done and are still doing every bit of the dirt work on this job. so it is taking us forever with only three guys and two that can run equipment so.

AWJ Services
07-23-2008, 11:36 PM
i was there when we put the bottom in a pool kenny had dug and we had almost a constant 4 inch thickness where the other guy it was up and down becuz he wasnt as good of an operator so there fore the guy with more experience can save you time money and effort.

So since I have been running equipment only a few years I cannot dig straight?

Junior M
07-24-2008, 12:34 AM
.

So since I have been running equipment only a few years I cannot dig straight?
thats not what i was saying... i was simply using it as an example..

Green Team Landscaping
07-24-2008, 12:45 AM
Minimum wage $15/hr.?!?!? You are smoking some good stuff up there. Get in the real world dude, minimum wage is just that, minimum. If you're actually worth your salt, there shouldn't need to be a minimum wage. I haven't worked for minimum wage in 10 years and I'm only 21.
Hahahahahahahaha

AWJ Services
07-24-2008, 10:32 AM
JLM335 that was exactly what you were saying.
A persons ability is best not judged by years of experience ,but by on the job performance.
If a guy with 15 years experience cannot dig a bottom of a pool correct why can I after 6 months?

One day after you have been self employed for an eternity and have been through umpteen employees you will understand what Stillwater meant.
I often tell prospective employees "I do not care what you did ,I only care what you will do!"

bobcat_ron
07-24-2008, 11:56 AM
I can't even walk a straight line, and yet I can dig in a straight line, what does that tell you?

AWJ Services
07-24-2008, 12:07 PM
You have more experience digging than walking?

YellowDogSVC
07-24-2008, 12:09 PM
.

So since I have been running equipment only a few years I cannot dig straight?

Just tilt your head to side and it will straighten up!

YellowDogSVC
07-24-2008, 12:11 PM
I can't even walk a straight line, and yet I can dig in a straight line, what does that tell you?

you don't drink when you are at work? :drinkup:

YellowDogSVC
07-24-2008, 12:23 PM
e wasnt as good of an operator so there fore the guy with more experience can save you time money and effort. but hey if you want to sacrifice quality and all the other aspects of good business for a few dollars than do it and watch your amount of work fall.

You are leaving out talent. You can have all the experience in the world but if it experience at doing something wrong or doing it inefficiently, who is getting the benefit? I've only been clearing land for 11 years yet I have a system that is both efficient and different from the guys that have been clearing land for 40 years in my own area. I know some of them.. they are good guys but some are inefficient and not necessarily neat. They have never learned another way to do it and I wouldn't say that many of them have talent. They just clear the land. That's relatively easy to do but it isn't so easy to gently clear the land while maintaining efficiency and cleanliness. This is where talent comes in and that's an innate or practiced ability. It also takes knowledge, which comes from learning whether it's through practice, reading, listening or watching.

I'm not saying there aren't guys with 40 years of experience who have grown and expanded their knowledge base and talents over the years. Those guys would truly be a resource to any company but it's unlikely they would be working for someone in my opinion since they could probably make more based solely on what they know if nothing else.

It is also very likely that a creative and talented learned individual with 5 years actual experience could be one of the most productive and efficient operators you might ever come across. Fluid moves and the ability to think outside of a box using problem solving skills and a little bit of an artistic flair might make this operator a true time-saver but again, why would that guy be working for someone else if he took the time to expand his knowledge base and fine tune his skills?

stuvecorp
07-24-2008, 01:22 PM
You are leaving out talent. You can have all the experience in the world but if it experience at doing something wrong or doing it inefficiently, who is getting the benefit? I've only been clearing land for 11 years yet I have a system that is both efficient and different from the guys that have been clearing land for 40 years in my own area. I know some of them.. they are good guys but some are inefficient and not necessarily neat. They have never learned another way to do it and I wouldn't say that many of them have talent. They just clear the land. That's relatively easy to do but it isn't so easy to gently clear the land while maintaining efficiency and cleanliness. This is where talent comes in and that's an innate or practiced ability. It also takes knowledge, which comes from learning whether it's through practice, reading, listening or watching.

I'm not saying there aren't guys with 40 years of experience who have grown and expanded their knowledge base and talents over the years. Those guys would truly be a resource to any company but it's unlikely they would be working for someone in my opinion since they could probably make more based solely on what they know if nothing else.

It is also very likely that a creative and talented learned individual with 5 years actual experience could be one of the most productive and efficient operators you might ever come across. Fluid moves and the ability to think outside of a box using problem solving skills and a little bit of an artistic flair might make this operator a true time-saver but again, why would that guy be working for someone else if he took the time to expand his knowledge base and fine tune his skills?

Very well put, If you don't keep trying to learn or research better or innovative methods who cares how much experience you have.

RockSet N' Grade
07-24-2008, 06:31 PM
Once again, I find being sucked into this thread too easy to do. It astounds me that someone that does not run a business and has an attitude of entitlement can complain about not getting more, being treated better and have such grandiose opinions as to what is best for the company. This is a dangerous/negative mindset that Big Brother would like to instill in all its sheep and cogs-in-the-wheel.

Junior M
07-24-2008, 06:54 PM
You are leaving out talent. You can have all the experience in the world but if it experience at doing something wrong or doing it inefficiently, who is getting the benefit? I've only been clearing land for 11 years yet I have a system that is both efficient and different from the guys that have been clearing land for 40 years in my own area. I know some of them.. they are good guys but some are inefficient and not necessarily neat. They have never learned another way to do it and I wouldn't say that many of them have talent. They just clear the land. That's relatively easy to do but it isn't so easy to gently clear the land while maintaining efficiency and cleanliness. This is where talent comes in and that's an innate or practiced ability. It also takes knowledge, which comes from learning whether it's through practice, reading, listening or watching.

I'm not saying there aren't guys with 40 years of experience who have grown and expanded their knowledge base and talents over the years. Those guys would truly be a resource to any company but it's unlikely they would be working for someone in my opinion since they could probably make more based solely on what they know if nothing else.

It is also very likely that a creative and talented learned individual with 5 years actual experience could be one of the most productive and efficient operators you might ever come across. Fluid moves and the ability to think outside of a box using problem solving skills and a little bit of an artistic flair might make this operator a true time-saver but again, why would that guy be working for someone else if he took the time to expand his knowledge base and fine tune his skills?
i understand what you are saying but i was just using it as an example... and the people i have seen with more years of experience are usually higher quality work... but i get what you are saying... me and my dad have only backfilled pools for like six months and there is a guy that has done it for years and we arent as fast as him but when we leave the pool is ready for concrete and all the excess dirt is usually piled and ready to get hauled out.. but i was simply using it as an example that is it..

bobcat_ron
07-24-2008, 07:14 PM
You have more experience digging than walking?



you don't drink when you are at work? :drinkup:

Ding, ding, ding, both right on, I have left my fair share of ass divots on the excavator seats since I was 15.

Junior M
07-24-2008, 07:25 PM
JLM335 that was exactly what you were saying.
A persons ability is best not judged by years of experience ,but by on the job performance.
If a guy with 15 years experience cannot dig a bottom of a pool correct why can I after 6 months?

One day after you have been self employed for an eternity and have been through umpteen employees you will understand what Stillwater meant.
I often tell prospective employees "I do not care what you did ,I only care what you will do!"
no its not at all what i was saying.... whatever i am not goin to argue with you all.