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CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 08:00 PM
Check out the Hoss bag....

I love this bag, first saw it in NC with Brandon @ Tom's creek.It weighs a ton but saves me a few trips back and forth to the truck.
In there is a multimeter,screw drivers,wire nuts, solenoid activator/chatter, wire ties, batteries, Hunter remote, drill bits, Bores.
As previsly stated it's quite heavy, but worth every pound of it.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2948.jpg

My new shovel and the 410.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2949.jpg

My first outdoor clock I hung for these guys, the pigtail was temporary until we get the sparky to come out and hardwire.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2953.jpg

Notice the remote port, 2 of the 3 guys are still fighting me about installing them...I heard management wants them installed every property ....
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2954.jpg

The 410 in action.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2955-1.jpg

The 410 stuck.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2964.jpg
The MP 3000 blasting water out.....

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2967.jpg

I designed this zone and this whole job for a matter of fact..They let me fly and it worked..No problems the job was a 1 horse well 85 feet down dedicated 10-20 gpm @ over 60 pounds...Needless to say the well will pay for the system in 10 years.....

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2968.jpg

Homeowner loved this zone.the water was flying

A happy designer/installer W/ Big dog Hunter Remote
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2977.jpg

I love mp rotors.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2972.jpg

Notice my chew toy with a mp in the backround
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2979.jpg

A few pics of the rotor zones all pgp's screaming about 8-10 heads a zone and I still feel she can push 3 more on each with the pressure
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2980-1.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2982.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2983-1.jpg

I got a few pats on the back all around from the H/o and mgmt...Sold a remote to the H/O for next year...Notice how dry it is....
@ first it looked like a bomb went off here but we cleaned her up...barely any roots in the turf so cleanup was tough...Do you see the wireless rain sensor
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2987.jpg

Mike Leary
07-24-2008, 08:21 PM
Spacing in the planting beds will screw the coverage as they fill in. If there is a drawback
to MPs (other than precipitation rate), it's thinking the coverage will remain the same as
plantings mature & fill-in. :hammerhead::nono:

greenmonster304
07-24-2008, 08:23 PM
how do you like using the articulating pipe puller compared to the Fisher Price model from the old company?

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 08:24 PM
Spacing in the planting beds will screw the coverage as they fill in. If there is a drawback
to MPs (other than precipition rate), it's thinking the coverage will remain the same as
plantings mature & fill-in. :hammerhead::nono:

well @ least your not giving me bad advice on drip!

I designed with what the budget/ zone allotment was given..I'm sorry if you don't like but these people weren't willing to spend 1500$ a zone....

If I had my way I would of instaled drip in the front planting bed by the rains sensor..The garden zone will be fine...
BTW have you found your valve yet, and is that why you have been so cranky lately?

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 08:25 PM
how do you like using the articulating pipe puller compared to the Fisher Price model from the old company?

I love it!

Think it is awsome...I used the 255 @ the last job, but hated the piper...

Also the 255 cuts the turf better with that little circle cutter before the blade.

Mike Leary
07-24-2008, 08:36 PM
well @ least your not giving me bad advice on drip! BTW have you found your valve yet, and is that why you have been so cranky lately?

What ? the filter thing? You're way off on that. Valve located. Drip sucks.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 08:37 PM
What ? the filter thing? You're way off on that. Valve located. Drip sucks.

correct...you were wrong with the filter thing...congrats on the valve location..

drip is what makes my job worth it...water conservation...

Mike Leary
07-24-2008, 08:40 PM
drip is what makes my job worth it...water conservation...

Drip with emitters on 6' centers might work, with 4 hour run times.
I believe in feeding the stomata, gets the dust off the leaves & looks healthy.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 08:42 PM
Drip on 6' centers might work, with 4 hour run times.

have you tried the punch emitters with the netafim?

What is the dominant soil climate you install in?

Mike Leary
07-24-2008, 08:49 PM
:::::Backs out of schlock thread::::

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 08:55 PM
:::::Backs out of schlock thread::::

::wishes he could get 1500 a zone:::

Mike Leary
07-24-2008, 09:12 PM
You'll never go wrong with 12"pop-up sprays on 5' centers with copper risers in the centers with W*M 105 fc nozzles. BLISS.
:::::wishes he had ROTAR as a apprentice years ago, he'd own the company now::::::

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 09:47 PM
that stinks.

i prob would of gone for it

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-24-2008, 09:48 PM
Spacing in the planting beds will screw the coverage as they fill in. If there is a drawback
to MPs (other than precipitation rate), it's thinking the coverage will remain the same as
plantings mature & fill-in. :hammerhead::nono:

Ditto. Could have saved the customers a lot of money by putting those MPs 4' or so into the grass spraying in. They are going to have to be moved out eventually
Drip is not water conservation by the way. It's just another way to water. Water conservation is designing and using irrigation properly and efficiently.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 09:49 PM
Ditto. Could have saved the customers a lot of money by putting those MPs 4' or so into the grass spraying in. They are going to have to be moved out eventually
Drip is not water conservation by the way. It's just another way to water. Water conservation is designing and using irrigation properly and efficiently.

SHUT UP!

k

thanks.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-24-2008, 09:50 PM
SHUT UP!

k

thanks.

Ditto....

No Problem


Your Welcome

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 09:54 PM
Ditto....

No Problem


Your Welcome

JK peter..

you 2 are my favorite posters here...
and i value your input..

AI Inc
07-24-2008, 10:31 PM
JK peter..

you 2 are my favorite posters here...
and i value your input..

Kiss ass,lol

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 10:31 PM
Kiss ass,lol

I just didn't want to hurt their feelings....anymore.

Mike Leary
07-24-2008, 10:33 PM
Kiss ass,lol

Gotta kiss ass before you can kick butt.

BrandonV
07-24-2008, 10:45 PM
don't forget the stickers for the clock doors

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 10:59 PM
don't forget the stickers for the clock doors

oh but of course..

bran bought a big dog remote, love it....as seen in pics..

Wet_Boots
07-25-2008, 12:59 AM
Snap a photo of the finished controller wiring, and remote connector.

WalkGood
07-25-2008, 01:07 AM
A happy designer/installer W/ Big dog Hunter Remote
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o16/windoraphan/Library-2977.jpg




Photo too far away, cannot see details of subject. Zoom in on the remote!

j/k


Zoom in on the shovel picture! :laugh:

Kiril
07-25-2008, 09:32 AM
Spacing in the planting beds will screw the coverage as they fill in. If there is a drawback
to MPs (other than precipitation rate), it's thinking the coverage will remain the same as
plantings mature & fill-in. :hammerhead::nono:

Which is the problem with any type of spray.

Kiril
07-25-2008, 09:33 AM
Drip with emitters on 6' centers might work, with 4 hour run times.
I believe in feeding the stomata, gets the dust off the leaves & looks healthy.

:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

Kiril
07-25-2008, 09:36 AM
Water conservation is designing and using irrigation properly and efficiently.

Which is why you install drip when possible.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-25-2008, 06:44 PM
Which is why you install drip when possible.

Ditto..

you all should bow down to the power of drip....

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 07:00 PM
Ditto..

you all should bow down to the power of drip....

Drip is for drip s..ts. AG is a whole other thing, as are raised beds & tree
rings, but to do a whole planting bed, uniformly? Geez, where's my 521?

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-25-2008, 07:02 PM
Drip is for drip s..ts. AG is a whole other thing, as are raised beds & tree
rings, but to do a whole planting bed, uniformly? Geez, where's my 521?


not sure you even know how to use that.....

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 07:08 PM
not sure you even know how to use that.....

Surprised you know what it is.

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 07:20 PM
Ditto..

you all should bow down to the power of drip....

You want gpm rather than gph if you want plants this size to have fun.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-25-2008, 09:25 PM
:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

Mike is right on this. I'm in his camp on the stomata issue. Some plants you want to avoid but the great majority could use a good washing.

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 09:44 PM
Some plants you want to avoid but the great majority could use a good washing.

Gets into a lack of elegant landscape design, of which we don't see many.

RedWingsDet
07-25-2008, 10:40 PM
that stinks.

i prob would of gone for it

Want to come to michigan? 300 sprinkler service accts overnight!

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 11:23 PM
Want to come to michigan? 300 sprinkler service accts overnight!

"Michigan seems to be a dream to me now...it took me all night to hitch hike
from Saginaw".

Wet_Boots
07-26-2008, 12:06 AM
Paul Simon needs to write a Sprinkler Song...

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 12:14 AM
Paul Simon needs to write a Sprinkler Song...

"All come, to look for head to head coverage".

Wet_Boots
07-26-2008, 12:36 AM
"All come, to look for head to head coverage".Doesn't quite fit into meter. Maybe something to replace the lyrics of Paranoia Blues.

"I got the WeatherMatic Blues, from trying to find their crappy valves....

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 12:54 AM
Doesn't quite fit into meter.[/i]
Fred Neil could fit it into meter, got to slide the phrasing.
ROTAR du gumbo sang, " Weather*Matic, Weather*Matic, get your
fat leg off of me".

Kiril
07-26-2008, 01:08 AM
Mike is right on this. I'm in his camp on the stomata issue. Some plants you want to avoid but the great majority could use a good washing.

Hogwash. If you need to wash the dust off your plants, then pull out a hose. Designing a sprinkler system to keep your plants dust free is asinine. Let's not even mention disease issues that come with overhead watering.

Drip is for drip s..ts. AG is a whole other thing, as are raised beds & tree rings, but to do a whole planting bed, uniformly? Geez, where's my 521?

Begins to wonder ....... :wall

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 01:36 AM
Hogwash. If you need to wash the dust off your plants, then pull out a hose. Designing a sprinkler system to keep your plants dust free is asinine. Let's not even mention disease issues that come with overhead watering

Missed the point again...where does rain come from? Calling professionals
that have been using spray and rotors for forty years "asinine" shows
what a puckered-up little punk you must be. :hammerhead::hammerhead:

Kiril
07-26-2008, 01:43 AM
Missed the point again...where does rain come from? Calling professionals
that have been using spray and rotors for forty years "asinine" shows
what a puckered-up little punk you must be. :hammerhead::hammerhead:

Show me even one credible reference that supports your overhead watering of "stomata", and I'll give you 10 that state the opposite.

Furthermore, for you to even equate rainfall with irrigation is bordering on ignorant. (that is for the punk comment)

Me thinks you need to brush up a bit on your plant biology.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-26-2008, 08:18 AM
Don't think we need to settle our differences with ugliness. I agree that not all plants want water applied from the top. Much of Dallas landscaping has plants that need a good top watering with base watering. One problem I have with drip in observing it in my landscape is the limited root system it develops. The roots grow where they have contact with water. 2' away the ground is cracked and parched. I question the wisdom of such diverse soil moisture levels in that confined of an area. I think the whole bed needs moisture in the soil. One reason I prefer micro over drip. Larger watering pattern.

Kiril
07-26-2008, 09:12 AM
Don't think we need to settle our differences with ugliness.

Agreed

One problem I have with drip in observing it in my landscape is the limited root system it develops. The roots grow where they have contact with water. 2' away the ground is cracked and parched. I question the wisdom of such diverse soil moisture levels in that confined of an area. I think the whole bed needs moisture in the soil. One reason I prefer micro over drip. Larger watering pattern.

No offense, but this suggests improper installation and run times (assuming netafim). Personally, I try my hardest not to snake my Netafim around plants if installed into an existing landscape. If I was going to do that, I might as well install micro-sprinklers/bubblers, it would be far easier. I design my Netafim on a grid which varies depending on hydrozone (soil, plant, environment) characteristics. Bottomline, when installed in a grid layout I observe even wetting of the entire area as a function of distance from the dripper (10-8 on Mr. Lincoln).

For example, one place I just installed subsurface 0.2 GPH drippers on 18" spacing into a gutted yard. Depth and lateral spacing varied for the install based on water requirements of the plants in the area, but on average was installed at 2-6" depth on 12-24" lateral spacing. This yard was then planted out with a wide variety of plants ranging from shallow rooted to deep rooted, drought tolerant to water loving. The system is currently run for 45 minutes every two days for establishment with only 2 plants needing supplemental watering due to poor root balls, even in 100+ degree heat. What is even better, no water on the hardscape, fence, hammock, or anywhere it is not needed. In this particular yard, this would be impossible to achieve with conventional sprinklers, or even micro-sprays.

Drip installed and run properly works and can conserve huge amounts of water. There was a time when I also hated drip, due to all the reasons you have mentioned along with the dreaded maint. issues. However, drip technology (netafim) has come a long way since I started in the business, and the hang ups I used to have are now not enough of an issue to warrant not using it whenever possible.

Waterit
07-26-2008, 12:49 PM
Don't think we need to settle our differences with ugliness.

Thank you, sir. Play nice, boys!:nono:

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-26-2008, 05:05 PM
Drip is the way to water expensive planting beds...Plain and simple....I 100% agree with Kiril on this on here folks...You all can call me a pup till your fingers are blue.I have watered beds every way, and although a PITA in the end drip is king for my soil climate..

Applying the water right to where it is needed...In our Sandy soil with run times of 45-1hr and a spacing from 12-18 inch with 12 inch techline (netafim) is the top notch..

I could see it being a problem in clay....

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE=CAPT Stream Rotar;2436846.You all can call me a pup till your fingers are blue.[/QUOTE]

Had planned on it. Have you ever measured to see if the drip is getting to
the bottom of the root zone?

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-26-2008, 05:25 PM
Had planned on it. Have you ever measured to see if the drip is getting to
the bottom of the root zone?


in my sandy soil, yes I have, It works great...would you like documented pictures?

gramps?

Kiril
07-26-2008, 06:00 PM
I could see it being a problem in clay....

IMHO, drip is better suited for clay soils than sandy ones.

Wet_Boots
07-26-2008, 06:39 PM
Of course, things get complicated in clay laden with mineral salts - I think that was the most interesting part of Rainbird's Xerigation manual.

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 06:42 PM
:::composes himself as to avoid getting thrown off the forum (Hey "SHE" how are you?)::
I can't believe you guys are running such short run times with Netafim..: .9 per hour.
You're not getting to the bottom of the root zone with those dweeb run times.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-26-2008, 06:42 PM
IMHO, drip is better suited for clay soils than sandy ones.

In my sand, the water runs down with the roots following.

In the clay it would seem that the water stays on the surface keeping the roots on the top?

no?

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 06:59 PM
:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall:wall

Wet_Boots
07-26-2008, 07:08 PM
In my sand, the water runs down with the roots following.

In the clay it would seem that the water stays on the surface keeping the roots on the top?

no?Lower drip rates and longer run times, Grasshopper. It can approach a steady-state, with the drip almost never stopping, and the soil never completely drying. This becomes important in areas like California's Central Valley, because the salts in the soil begin to concentrate at the edge of the wetted area, which must then not be allowed to become too small, because that could bring the salts back towards the plant roots, with damage resulting.

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 07:18 PM
Mr. Lincoln is requested in all tech kits.

Kiril
07-26-2008, 09:06 PM
In the clay it would seem that the water stays on the surface keeping the roots on the top?

no?

No. Water flows down in clay just like it does in sand, just slower, hence the reason for lower output drippers.

Generally speaking, as your particle size decreases your lateral spacing and dripper spacing increases (i.e. you can get away with less drippers and wider lateral spacing).

@Boots

Salt accumulation is a problem with any type of irrigation. If the quality of your irrigation water is poor, then you need to consider leaching requirements regardless of where you live.

@Mike

TLCV9-12 (0.9 GPH @ 12" spacing) with 18" lateral spacing has a PR of 0.96 in/hr.

TLCV26-18 (0.26 GPH @ 18" spacing) with 18" lateral spacing has a PR of 0.19 in/hr.

For comparison ......

Full circle MP2000 rotator at @35 psi and square spacing has a PR of 0.41 in/hr.

With the system I described above at the 45 min runtime, I am putting down roughly 1/2" of water every 4 days, which is more than will be needed once those plants are established. Wetting depth is beyond the capability of my 2 foot Lincoln to measure.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-26-2008, 09:14 PM
Pwnt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kiril
07-26-2008, 09:26 PM
@ rotar

Example of water movement for TLCV26-18 in a bone dry clay soil. This pic was taken about 5 minutes after turning the system on for the first time before final covering of the line.

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 09:30 PM
With the system I described above at the 45 min runtime, I am putting down roughly 1/2" of water every 4 days, which is more than will be needed once those plants are established. Wetting depth is beyond the capability of my 2 foot Lincoln to measure.

You have a 2" Lincoln with that kind of application. Suggest you adjust as the
probe ages, use fine sandpaper to keep probe clean, set probe for fully
saturated soil after cleaning, send probe to factory every few years for
re-grooving.....have two probes.

Kiril
07-26-2008, 09:39 PM
@ML

What I meant was I pushed Mr. Lincoln 2 feet into the soil and was still getting moisture readings. I am unsure at how much total water had been applied at the time of the measurement.

Just the fact that I could push the probe in that deep in this particular soil (highly compacted) is proof enough that the water is infiltrating to that depth. Are you familiar with how a brown probe works?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-27-2008, 08:54 AM
Agreed



No offense, but this suggests improper installation and run times (assuming netafim). Personally, I try my hardest not to snake my Netafim around plants if installed into an existing landscape. If I was going to do that, I might as well install micro-sprinklers/bubblers, it would be far easier. I design my Netafim on a grid which varies depending on hydrozone (soil, plant, environment) characteristics. Bottomline, when installed in a grid layout I observe even wetting of the entire area as a function of distance from the dripper (10-8 on Mr. Lincoln).

For example, one place I just installed subsurface 0.2 GPH drippers on 18" spacing into a gutted yard. Depth and lateral spacing varied for the install based on water requirements of the plants in the area, but on average was installed at 2-6" depth on 12-24" lateral spacing. This yard was then planted out with a wide variety of plants ranging from shallow rooted to deep rooted, drought tolerant to water loving. The system is currently run for 45 minutes every two days for establishment with only 2 plants needing supplemental watering due to poor root balls, even in 100+ degree heat. What is even better, no water on the hardscape, fence, hammock, or anywhere it is not needed. In this particular yard, this would be impossible to achieve with conventional sprinklers, or even micro-sprays.

Drip installed and run properly works and can conserve huge amounts of water. There was a time when I also hated drip, due to all the reasons you have mentioned along with the dreaded maint. issues. However, drip technology (netafim) has come a long way since I started in the business, and the hang ups I used to have are now not enough of an issue to warrant not using it whenever possible.

Whether applied by drip or a well designed system the volume of water needed to completely water a bed say 6-10" deep is going to be the same. A well designed system using Mike's 5' on center system or my micro spray system is going to more evenly water the bed than netafim strung all over the bed in rows. In addition the netafim is disruptive to the gardening process and we all now how easily it gets damaged. The only way drip saves water in a bed situation is if it is used to water the individual plant and not the whole bed. Which is what I did. I have gorgeous healthy abelias and two feet away parched cracked earth. The reason I suspect everybody loves netafim strung all through the bed is it cuts down on the hand digging.

Now I've compromised by using blank netafim run on the perimeters and close to the foundation where gardening is unlikely to occur and off of that run microsprays. It allows for a good even thorough watering of the entire root ball area. It is a bastardized or low cost version of Mike's 5' center method. Since I'm always doing redos of existing systems in which we have an established landscape that has outgrown the system this seems to work really well.

Kiril
07-27-2008, 02:35 PM
Whether applied by drip or a well designed system the volume of water needed to completely water a bed say 6-10" deep is going to be the same.

I don't agree. If you have a system with a AE of 70% and a system with a AE of 85%, the system with the AE of 70% will need to apply more water. The same applies for DU. Perhaps you are referring to applying "x" amount of water to meet ET demand of the hydrozone?

A well designed system using Mike's 5' on center system or my micro spray system is going to more evenly water the bed than netafim strung all over the bed in rows.

Not sure I agree with this either, for same reason as above. Wind, evaporation, plant blockage, over-spray, etc... will all affect the DU and AE of even the best designed above ground spray system. It has been well established for quite some time now that drip irrigation (in particular SDI) provides the highest AE & DU of all the available irrigation choices, with micro-sprays typically following.

In addition the netafim is disruptive to the gardening process and we all now how easily it gets damaged.

Absolutely agree with this. Netafim is not the best choice for areas that have plants changed out on a regular basis. You can however avoid damaging the lines if you simply locate them before digging, just like you would with utilities.

The only way drip saves water in a bed situation is if it is used to water the individual plant and not the whole bed.

Don't agree with this per above comments on DU & AE. I will however agree that you can realize even more water savings if you choose to water on a per plant basis.

Now I've compromised by using blank netafim run on the perimeters and close to the foundation where gardening is unlikely to occur and off of that run microsprays. It allows for a good even thorough watering of the entire root ball area.

Your use of "root ball" suggests new plantings. I've had more than a few arguments with contractors I work with on designing systems for short term plant establishment versus long term plant need. In my eyes, long term plant needs win hands down and should be the priority of all landscape irrigation designs.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 02:39 PM
:::::Jumps off the ferry boat:::::

Kiril
07-27-2008, 02:51 PM
:::::Jumps off the ferry boat:::::

:::Thinks about throwing a life preserver:::

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 02:53 PM
:::Thinks about throwing a life preserver:::

"Hey, wait a minute, this thing is concrete".

Kiril
07-27-2008, 02:54 PM
:::quickly runs to other side of ferry:::

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 02:58 PM
:::quickly runs to other side of ferry:::

Trips on his roll of drip tube, falls in.

Kiril
07-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Trips on his roll of drip tube, falls in.

::foot gets caught in tubing and due to the damn kinking of the pipe, gets hung up in railing and saved from joining ML in Davy Jones' Locker::

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-27-2008, 03:05 PM
I don't agree. If you have a system with a AE of 70% and a system with a AE of 85%, the system with the AE of 70% will need to apply more water. The same applies for DU. Perhaps you are referring to applying "x" amount of water to meet ET demand of the hydrozone?



Not sure I agree with this either, for same reason as above. Wind, evaporation, plant blockage, over-spray, etc... will all affect the DU and AE of even the best designed above ground spray system. It has been well established for quite some time now that drip irrigation (in particular SDI) provides the highest AE & DU of all the available irrigation choices, with micro-sprays typically following.



Absolutely agree with this. Netafim is not the best choice for areas that have plants changed out on a regular basis. You can however avoid damaging the lines if you simply locate them before digging, just like you would with utilities.



Don't agree with this per above comments on DU & AE. I will however agree that you can realize even more water savings if you choose to water on a per plant basis.



Your use of "root ball" suggests new plantings. I've had more than a few arguments with contractors I work with on designing systems for short term plant establishment versus long term plant need. In my eyes, long term plant needs win hands down and should be the priority of all landscape irrigation designs.

Assuming your landscape gets to that point without thorough initial irrigation. Even if drip was the ultimate goal I'd still use micro in the beginning for later conversion. Low set micros have very liitle waste and can be adjusted for the different watering needs of the landscape. I frequently deal with Texas sages planted next to azaleas and/or impatiens or some other annual or water loving plant. Stupid I know but I'm just the irrigator. I can put the micros in the azaleas and other stuff and keep water away from the TX sages. If I can get the impatiens watered well and looking good with a shorter run time I feel that I protect other parts of the landscape and save water as well. More landscapes get drowned inmo due to drooping impatiens. With drip it's seeking a happy medium for the entire bed. Another nice feature of micros is it is much easier to check the system. With drip a tube can be cut and who would ever know.

Kiril
07-27-2008, 03:18 PM
Assuming your landscape gets to that point without thorough initial irrigation. Even if drip was the ultimate goal I'd still use micro in the beginning for later conversion.

I have been know to install temporary irrigation for establishment.

Low set micros have very liitle waste and can be adjusted for the different watering needs of the landscape.

Agreed, assuming minimal misting and no blockage by plants.

With drip it's seeking a happy medium for the entire bed.

I don't agree. You can vary dripper output, use difference lateral spacings, use different burial depths in order to create micro-climates within a poorly designed plant hydrozone.

Another nice feature of micros is it is much easier to check the system. With drip a tube can be cut and who would ever know.

Agreed, however use of pressure and flow measurements along with some of these should be sufficient to determine the operating status of your dripline.

http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/images/accessories/indicator-10-F-01.jpg (http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/p-accessories/p-access-indicator-stake.php)

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-27-2008, 03:30 PM
Here is a happy abelia being watered by a ring of agrifim. This is the same plant and right next to it is parched cracked earth. Not sure if I like that I'm being so water efficient or dislike that I have such radically different moisture zones so close to each other.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 03:47 PM
Agreed, however use of pressure and flow measurements along with some of these should be sufficient to determine the operating status of your dripline.

http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/images/accessories/indicator-10-F-01.jpg (http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/p-accessories/p-access-indicator-stake.php)

Anyone that uses drip should have the indicator.

Kiril
07-27-2008, 03:54 PM
Here is a happy abelia being watered by a ring of agrifim. This is the same plant and right next to it is parched cracked earth. Not sure if I like that I'm being so water efficient or dislike that I have such radically different moisture zones so close to each other.

I don't really see that as being a problem, other than the cracking. Dry soil = less weeds & less evaporative losses. I looked at a place about a month ago that had some plants dying. This particular zone was using RB 1400 series bubbles. The area right next to the bubbler was very dry and deeply cracked to the point where the water just flowed into the cracks around the riser and the surrounding soil was essentially bone dry. Even though the plant was less than a foot away, it was dead due to lack of water. Long story short, in soils like ours, sometimes it is desirable to keep your (sub)soils hydrated to some extent to prevent this from happening, which is where SDI comes into play.

If your plant(s) that you have ringed start suffering from lack of sufficient soil volume to root out into, increase the diameter of the ring or set a new ring/square.

Some mulch/compost might also be a good idea. Compost does a soil good. :)

Juan if by land
07-29-2008, 12:24 AM
Agreed, however use of pressure and flow measurements along with some of these should be sufficient to determine the operating status of your dripline.

http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/images/accessories/indicator-10-F-01.jpg (http://www.netafim-usa-landscape.com/Landscape/p-accessories/p-access-indicator-stake.php)

How are you using these? Are you using one per zone,or one per loop?

Do you install in an inconspicuous location or within easy view?

Are you instructing the owner or others to keep an eye on it,or do you use it for your own use mostly?

(takes a deep breath and a sip of water)

Kiril
07-29-2008, 01:21 AM
How are you using these? Are you using one per zone,or one per loop?

Depends on how you build it. Using supply and exhaust headers, I put one per zone on the exhaust header. All they are really good for with this type of setup is a break indication.

If you setup is long runs with no exhaust header, you might put one per run at the end. This will tell you if the line breaks or gets pinched.

Do you install in an inconspicuous location or within easy view?

I try to tuck them away so they can't be easily seen, but also not lost either.

Are you instructing the owner or others to keep an eye on it,or do you use it for your own use mostly?

Absolutely tell the homeowner. #1 question from HO's for drip is, how do I know its running if I can't see it. Plus, I aways instruct HO's on how to visually check their systems so they know when to call before a problem gets out of hand