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1simple
07-24-2008, 08:57 PM
Everything I read says 1 inch per week. I live in Texas, where the summers are hot. The license irrigatior that installed my system said 3 times a week, 10 min on pop up and 20 on rotors. Everyone says less often, more deeply. How often should I water? I was thinking every 3 days, a tad more than twice a week would be better. 15 min on pop & 25 mins on rotars. It is a little more than 1/2 inch of water on rotors and some places more on the popups when I do it this way.

Or would it be better to water once a week, have it go through several cycles back to back to get 1 inch on the ground?

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 08:58 PM
thanks for the pics....HOSS

1simple
07-24-2008, 09:10 PM
thanks for the pics....HOSS

??? Did you mean to reply to my post?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-24-2008, 09:14 PM
Everything I read says 1 inch per week. I live in Texas, where the summers are hot. The license irrigatior that installed my system said 3 times a week, 10 min on pop up and 20 on rotors. Everyone says less often, more deeply. How often should I water? I was thinking every 3 days, a tad more than twice a week would be better. 15 min on pop & 25 mins on rotars. It is a little more than 1/2 inch of water on rotors and some places more on the popups when I do it this way.

Or would it be better to water once a week, have it go through several cycles back to back to get 1 inch on the ground?

We like pics but having said that read this. Then repost on your thoughts and I will post more for you to read.

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/turf/publications/bermuda.html

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-24-2008, 09:16 PM
Especially read this.

Management. Bermudagrasses, in general, are drought tolerant; that is, they survive dry soil conditions longer than most turfgrasses. However, drought tolerance in bermudagrass is based on their ability to become semidormant during severe droughts and to recover from stolons and rhizomes when moisture becomes available. The grass does not provide a desirable turf under drought conditions.

Bermudagrass does respond readily to irrigation. In general, water requirements of bermudagrass depends on turf use and climatic factors such as temperature, wind, humidity and light intensity. Water requirements increase with increasing levels of maintenance (golf green > sports field > lawn > roadside), higher temperatures, higher wind speed, lower humidity and greater light intensity. Of course, the longer the growing season the greater the water requirement for the year. Water use rates may range from less than 0.1 inch per day to 0.3 inch per day depending on these environmental conditions.

The frequency of irrigation is dependent on water use rate and soil type. Clay soils, for example, hold more water than sandy soils and, consequently, require less frequent irrigations. The depth of the rootzone also influences the frequency of irrigations. Bermudagrass roots can grow to a depth of six feet or more depending on soil profile characteristics. However, the majority of the root system, 80% or more, is found in the top 6 inches of soil. Where roots extend several feet into the soil, thorough and infrequent irrigation produces the most drought tolerant turf. Light, frequent irrigations such as practiced on golf greens produce shallow-rooted grass that shows drought stress very rapidly.

Bermudagrass does not tolerate poorly drained sites. On compacted sites and heavy clay soils, irrigation must be closely controlled to avoid waterlogged conditions. Hard, compacted sites can often be improved with respect to water penetration by core aeration and topdressing with sand or an aggregate material such as Turface. The presence of a heavy thatch layer will also interfere with water penetration. Thatch removal by vertical mowing and core aeration also improves water penetration and reduces the frequency of irrigation required.

Az Gardener
07-24-2008, 09:16 PM
Here in Phx its 103-110 and a little bit of humidity, monsoon season. We are watering two times a week one inch of water each time to maintain good established lawns. I could stretch it to about every 5 days if clients were not so picky.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-24-2008, 09:19 PM
??? Did you mean to reply to my post?

yes as a matter of fact,I did.

BrandonV
07-24-2008, 09:48 PM
the key to great looking bermuda is about 1lb of N per month in the growing season (now) keep it fertilized and damp, our is looking darn good right now we've been averaging 1.5" a week thanks to some massive t-storms

Mike Leary
07-24-2008, 09:53 PM
Where's the pics of Bermuda?

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-24-2008, 09:55 PM
Too much water in bermuda means weeds and nutsedge. 1.5" to 2" per week now but cut it back as soon as you can. Over watering bermuda will ruin it. The 1" per week thing is a joke. .25 to .5 in winter and 1.5 to 2.0 in the heat of the summer. I've seen bermuda survive on one heavy watering per year. It will go dormant in the heat but its survivability is awesome. I like to keep bermuda thirsty.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-24-2008, 09:58 PM
Another great link:

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/turf/publications/water.html

dhess
07-24-2008, 11:32 PM
with Austin's new water restrictions we are limited to twice a week only waterings. Austin has been 100+ lately and we've been in drought conditions so far all summer. Todays the only day we did get substantial amount of rain from that Hurricane, but it looks like its going to be sunny and 100+ all next week again.

check these pics I just took today on what used to be our premier green grass account..

http://www.n-siderecords.com/lawnsite/town1.jpg

and this

http://www.n-siderecords.com/lawnsite/town2.jpg

I dug up the grass and I can't see any signs of bugs. I also tried the soap test for chinchbugs which showed nothing (but it did rain a little before I did that test today). My Dad took a turf sample into local John Deere rep and he said he didn't see signs of bugs.

What I did notice after the Rep pointed it out is that you can't get more than 1 inch down in the ground with a shovel. The ground is now like solid rock because of the weather so our guess is that the water is just rolling off.

Its currently set at 10-15 mins for spray heads. 15-20 for Rotors.

I'll go back and try 5 min runs 3 times and see how that pans out.

Anyone else have some suggestions. I'm seeing this ALL across the board on all the surrounding properties too.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-25-2008, 04:54 AM
with Austin's new water restrictions we are limited to twice a week only waterings. Austin has been 100+ lately and we've been in drought conditions so far all summer. Todays the only day we did get substantial amount of rain from that Hurricane, but it looks like its going to be sunny and 100+ all next week again.

check these pics I just took today on what used to be our premier green grass account..

http://www.n-siderecords.com/lawnsite/town1.jpg

and this

http://www.n-siderecords.com/lawnsite/town2.jpg

I dug up the grass and I can't see any signs of bugs. I also tried the soap test for chinchbugs which showed nothing (but it did rain a little before I did that test today). My Dad took a turf sample into local John Deere rep and he said he didn't see signs of bugs.

What I did notice after the Rep pointed it out is that you can't get more than 1 inch down in the ground with a shovel. The ground is now like solid rock because of the weather so our guess is that the water is just rolling off.

Its currently set at 10-15 mins for spray heads. 15-20 for Rotors.

I'll go back and try 5 min runs 3 times and see how that pans out.

Anyone else have some suggestions. I'm seeing this ALL across the board on all the surrounding properties too.

Aerate or coring. I'd get a coring machine, go over the area. remove cores. topdress with sand and see if that doesn't help with infiltration. In smaller areas I tell customers to pitch fork it with lots of holes and then add sandy topsoil.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-25-2008, 07:48 AM
Another of my theories on bermuda grass. It is not a turf that likes being intensely managed. high fertilizing, short mowing heights, excessive watering all make it susceptible to problems when under stress. I'd personally never fertilize it more than twice a year and raise the mowing height. I know that N makes it look great but I'd cut down on the N and increase the other nutrients. Intense N on bermuda grass is like trying to live on Red Bulls for energy and stamina.

Kiril
07-25-2008, 08:21 AM
Aerate or coring. I'd get a coring machine, go over the area. remove cores. topdress with sand and see if that doesn't help with infiltration. In smaller areas I tell customers to pitch fork it with lots of holes and then add sandy topsoil.

Top dress with compost ..... compost does a soil good.

Wet_Boots
07-25-2008, 08:43 AM
top dress with astroturf

irrig8r
07-25-2008, 10:02 AM
Peter, doesn't it go dormant in winter where you are? We don't water it in winter unless it's overseeded with rye (folks used to use annual rye, now more often perennial) and then only when there's not enough rain.

Most of our rain falls Nov. to March, and though "winterizing" systems is uncommon, there's not a lot of watering going on during our rainy season. One reason the month-by-month settings on the "dumb" side of the SL seem like a good idea.

Kiril
07-25-2008, 10:33 AM
One reason the month-by-month settings on the "dumb" side of the SL seem like a good idea.

Ditto, and I always set them, weather monitor or not.

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 04:55 PM
The ground is now like solid rock because of the weather so our guess is that the water is just rolling off.
Its currently set at 10-15 mins for spray heads. 15-20 for Rotors.
I'll go back and try 5 min runs 3 times and see how that pans out.

You've got "soil tension" & it's hard to break, note the turf down by the drain
looks fine...run-off. If your clock has multiple start times, use every one.

Tom Tom
07-25-2008, 07:07 PM
I'll go back and try 5 min runs 3 times and see how that pans out.

Anyone else have some suggestions. I'm seeing this ALL across the board on all the surrounding properties too.



With clay soil, the max runtime on a spray zone is about 8 minutes and about 18 with rotors on relatively flat ground.

So, let us know how your 5 minute runtimes work. I'm thinking you should see some improvement. I'd go for 4 to 5 cycles if the controller can handle it.

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 07:25 PM
Send us a few pics of the zone in operation, I think I know what's happening.

dhess
07-25-2008, 08:38 PM
Send us a few pics of the zone in operation, I think I know what's happening.

I'll be over there next week doing a check and I'll take some pics.

one other thing that might be misleading in that pic with a drain is there is a small sign not shown. So there isn't head to head coverage, plus the sign might be blocking some spray or causing it to build up and run down.

who knows, maybe I'll find about 30 broken heads since they are doing construction.

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 08:47 PM
Slopes are a bearcat to cover, even with multiple zones designed right. Did it ever work?

1simple
07-25-2008, 08:54 PM
My ground consist of a lot of clay, more so the deeper you go down. Should I try that idea of 5 minutes intervals, 3 times? Would it hurt it if anything? Or allow any grass to absorb more water?

Is it ever a good idea of watering once a week, 1" of water? Wouldn't it promote deep roots?

Mike Leary
07-25-2008, 09:10 PM
[QUOTE=1simple;2435761 Wouldn't it promote deep roots?[/QUOTE]

In your turf dreams, areas that have 12"of moisture holding soil: sure.
Most of us have to settle for a lot less before we hit hardpan. So, you've
got to know where the roots end & water to that. Moisture meters are handy.

AI Inc
07-26-2008, 07:14 AM
In your turf dreams, areas that have 12"of moisture holding soil: sure.
Most of us have to settle for a lot less before we hit hardpan. So, you've
got to know where the roots end & water to that. Moisture meters are handy.

Exactly, you will see a lot written about less frequently , longer time. To tell someone that without knowing soil makeup is misleading and ignorant.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-26-2008, 07:21 AM
Exactly, you will see a lot written about less frequently , longer time. To tell someone that without knowing soil makeup is misleading and ignorant.

Ditto... Once that soil develops a tension to water it is runoff city.

Kiril
07-26-2008, 08:37 AM
Once that soil develops a tension to water it is runoff city.

Or compaction. We get alot of the localized brownouts due to compaction. Areas surrounding the brownouts have better soil structure, decent wetting throughout the profile, but the compacted areas are nearly bone dry, if you can even push Mr. Lincoln in far enough to get a reading. So what do most people do, put more water on, which does green up the compacted areas to some extent, but leads to almost constant saturated conditions everywhere else.

Aerate + compost helps alleviate these types of problems.

Mike Leary
07-26-2008, 11:51 AM
Will Bermuda come back after stressing that bad?

hoskm01
07-27-2008, 12:18 PM
Another of my theories on bermuda grass. It is not a turf that likes being intensely managed.



I would beg to differ. So would every golf course in AZ, and lots of the south.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 12:28 PM
Hope Kiril is taking the day off.

hoskm01
07-27-2008, 12:44 PM
Hope Kiril is taking the day off.
You can't argue with beauty.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 12:45 PM
You can't argue with beauty.

My kind of turf. :clapping:

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-27-2008, 01:08 PM
I would beg to differ. So would every golf course in AZ, and lots of the south.

Scale back a little bit and see how fast that stuff goes south on you. I believe that is a tif and I was referring to your basic common bermuda. No question a tif that is heavily fertilized and frequently mowed is going to look great. For that matter common can as well. My point is that bermuda can also be trained to be a very drought tolerant lawn. It won't look like that but it will be durable as a turf.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 01:28 PM
No question a tif that is heavily fertilized and frequently mowed is going to look great.

For the northerners, what's a "tif"? :dizzy:

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-27-2008, 01:30 PM
For the northerners, what's a "tif"? :dizzy:

hybrid bermuda with finer leaves for close mowing. What you see on southern golf courses.

Kiril
07-27-2008, 01:38 PM
For the northerners, what's a "tif"? :dizzy:

a file extension for the Tagged Image File Format :laugh:

Kiril
07-27-2008, 01:39 PM
Hope Kiril is taking the day off.

No such luck, and OMG.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 01:45 PM
Quick, Magnet Boy, put on your Greenblocker glasses!

Kiril
07-27-2008, 01:53 PM
Quick, Magnet Boy, put on your Greenblocker glasses!

No chit, faded tie geezer. That is a beautiful lawn, but I know what it takes to keep it looking that way as well. :cry:

hoskm01
07-27-2008, 04:42 PM
Be thankful that was just the front lawn. The backyard was twice as tall (at least) and took half the water. only 300 ft up front. It was joyous to keep up though.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 04:54 PM
Be thankful

Amen to that.