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Mike M
07-25-2008, 07:41 PM
Some mention has been made at times for using the yellow heat-shrink crimps for attaching leads, etc.

I tried them out. They work real easily and are readily attainable.

Has anyone had a problem in soil or in any various applications? I noticed the crimp takes a little knack to get used to it--too hard and you may puncture the insulation, too light and the wire can come out. But it seems like a great way to add on leads.

Also, holy crap, I tried Mike G's method for heat-shrink: MAPP gas. Same thing, easy, fast, portable, but you have to practice to get good at it (very hot, can burn insulation easily). I like it. But not for building mounts. I'll just keep using the heat gun fun that.

The Lighting Geek
07-25-2008, 08:02 PM
I use the blue ones for extending fixture wire on structures and trees. Your right about getting the process down or the puncture you make defeats the purpose. I use a little portable heat shrink gun that fits in my palm and uses butane. It is small enough to keep in your tool bag all the time and very handy. It uses cartridges that look like lighters without the striker and can be refilled. I keep a couple of them on me ready to go.

Lite4
07-25-2008, 10:14 PM
Mike, I used to use those but I stopped for the very reason you speak of with the insulation. I would always have to go back and either replace or epoxy. I found a better way. I use the copper buchanan crimps for the connection and then I use a 1/4" adhesive lined heat shrink tube. I buy them in 4' sticks and then cut them down to 1-1/2 -2" pieces. They shrink incredibly fast and stand up very well to the butane torch. It is also a heck of a lot cheaper than those yellow connections. They push out a nice gooey adhesive out the ends just like the Ace connectors, which I still use for my hubs.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-25-2008, 11:30 PM
Even better then the crimp style that Mike speaks of is the the Belden 'solder seal' connector. You simply insert the stripped wire in each end and heat it. The solder melts first and then the outer jacket melts pushing a sealant out both ends (like the 3m waterproof shrink tube the ACE uses) These are available at UAP/NAPA and come in a variety of sizes.

They are a great in-line connector when you need to be discreet on structures.

You can use a heat gun or if you are careful a small butane torch such as the "Solder-IT"

Lite4
07-26-2008, 12:52 AM
I have used them and they are nearly identical to the Yellow GB connectors Mike is talking about with one exception. They are wildly expensive and overpriced. You still have to be careful with the insulation so you don't pucture it with the crimps. I purchased them through Fastenal.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-26-2008, 08:09 AM
Tim, The Belden "Solder Seals" do not require a crimp. The solder does the connection. They cost me about $1 each when I buy them in boxes of 50.

irrig8r
07-26-2008, 10:55 AM
Trying to find these via a Google search is frustrating.. ending up with radiator leak fix products, etc.

James, do you have a link?

Lite4
07-26-2008, 11:22 AM
Gregg,
Look them up under Fastenals website

Mike M
07-26-2008, 05:12 PM
Tim,

Are you crimping the Buchanon's with an ordinary wire cutter/crimper which are available everywhere, or a special tool? I figure you are not using the Buchanon crimper since you are using them for in-lines.

Where are you getting the 4' heat shrink?

Mark B
07-26-2008, 05:24 PM
James the connection you are talking sounds interesting. Do you have a link or picture

I guess you guys are talking about what I call a sta-con connector. Then you put a shrink tube over the sta-con IF it will outside. (like the plumbers use in a well) MAPP gas will speed things up, but you have to be careful since MAPP is hotter then propane.

Mike M
07-26-2008, 05:30 PM
http://www.nationalstandardparts.com/electrical_electralink.htm

manu: national standard parts
product james refers: electralink

This connector is non-crimp, soldered and sealed. The company also has it in a crimp, and in a crimp and solder and shrink.

Check out their website, at national standard parts, dot com. No spaces.

I might add, this was harder to find than James' fancy toolbelt.

irrig8r
07-26-2008, 09:40 PM
Thanks Mike!

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-27-2008, 11:45 PM
I will have the specific part number, manu, and source for you guys tomorrow. The Belden connectors are in my trailer on a job site.

irrig8r
07-28-2008, 01:20 AM
Gregg,
Look them up under Fastenals website

Thanks Tim.... Fastenal is a big website.

JoeyD
07-30-2008, 05:29 PM
here you go guys...........

Lite4
07-30-2008, 05:35 PM
Yep, those are the ones I used to use. Maybe if I used a different set of dikes that didn't puncture the sleeve I might go back to them. Or maybe I should just stay out of the gym for a while.

Mike M
07-30-2008, 07:07 PM
Thanks, Joey!

Tim,

Dikes? Is that what you guys call crimpers? Is that like the scissors thing they make fun of on south parK?

Seriously, what is the proper tool for crimping these things without puncturing them??

I want to buy/try the ones James referred to that you don't even crimp, they solder and heat shrink.

Dikes? wtf?

Lite4
07-30-2008, 07:32 PM
Ha, thats some funny stuff Mike. I guess it isn't socially correct for me to be calling my crimpers names like that today is it?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-30-2008, 10:24 PM
I want to buy/try the ones James referred to that you don't even crimp, they solder and heat shrink.

Sorry guys, each day on site I have forgotten to write down the product info from the UAP/NAPA solder seal connectors I use. I will get it for you tomorrow.

Regards.

irrig8r
07-30-2008, 11:04 PM
Like these maybe?

http://www.wiringproducts.com/index1.html

The Lighting Geek
07-31-2008, 12:43 AM
you guys crack me up. I just take out the coleman stove heat a pot of solder and a pot of this plasticy crap and dip, dip and I'm done. Who cares that i lost all the hair on my arm last time because the stupid thing didn't light right away. But the spatter burns heal pretty quick. Just have to careful or you'll look like a leper!

irrig8r
07-31-2008, 01:32 AM
On the jobs I work on in the hills it's just too dry around right now to use anything with an open flame. Been using my Milwaukee heat gun and Ace connectors and haven't set anything on fire yet.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-31-2008, 01:36 AM
Want some rain Gregg??? Here we are "enjoying" the wettest summer on record. June was soaking and july has been like a monsoon season here. It rains pretty much every single day. (good for business but not so good for getting out on the boat)

Today around 4pm the skies opened up and dropped about 1" of rain in 10 mins. Huge drops that fell so hard they hurt. Instant soaker.

I have had enough of it and want some summer sun!

Mike M
07-31-2008, 08:09 AM
I'd kill for one cold rainy night among pine trees in a high elevation. It rained throughout the day and night and the temp was 82.5 coming off a demo at 10:30 PM. James, scroll up, I found those solder/seal connectors on the manu website. I'm planning on ordering them through the site referred by Tim.

Tom:

Are you saying you use solder for adding on leads? What is the material you are dipping the splice into for sealant? That plastic/rubbery dip stuff that comes in a can? I haven't seen that in years. That must make one pretty ugly looking splice, but very fast. I suppose for exposed in-lines (trees, etc.) you could solder and then use black heat shrink.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-31-2008, 08:33 AM
Yes Mike... those are essentially the same as the product I get at UAP/NAPA, only a much greater range of options there. NO CRIMPING = No penetration of the sealant.

http://www.nationalstandardparts.com/brochures/elektralink.pdf

Have a great day.

JoeyD
07-31-2008, 09:19 AM
make sure you guys all throw a dab of grease inside these things before crimping and sealing. In an auto installation your chances of water penatrating are pretty slim for the most part but in our applications water will eventually make it through that small heat shrink section at some point if these get burried.

As for crimp tools, the yellow handle ratcheting crimp tool that is in the link Gregg posted are the way to go!!

Mike M
07-31-2008, 02:05 PM
in our applications water will eventually make it through that small heat shrink section at some point if these get burried.

Argh. I hate the grease step. I get that crap on me and it mixes with dirt and ends up on my hands and clothes.

Joey, don't these heat-shrink connectors have a sealant inside of them? Isn't that enough?

irrig8r
07-31-2008, 02:33 PM
make sure you guys all throw a dab of grease inside these things before crimping and sealing. In an auto installation your chances of water penatrating are pretty slim for the most part but in our applications water will eventually make it through that small heat shrink section at some point if these get burried.

As for crimp tools, the yellow handle ratcheting crimp tool that is in the link Gregg posted are the way to go!!

That link I posted didn't go to the intended page that showed some butt splices...

I'll keep some of these kinds on hand for some repairs...and maybe get those ratcheted crimpers for instance I had to replace sockets in tow Vista fixtures last week. A lot of their pathlights have staggered butt splices in the stems.

irrig8r
07-31-2008, 02:40 PM
Argh. I hate the grease step. I get that crap on me and it mixes with dirt and ends up on my hands and clothes.

Joey, don't these heat-shrink connectors have a sealant inside of them? Isn't that enough?

You wanna see some sticky grease? Try the new version of the black/ gray and black/ blue filled wire nuts form King/ Dry Conn.

The clear goop (silicone grease maybe?) replaces the white grease they used to use. Probably makes a better long term connection, but sure makes a mess of your hands and clothes.



-----


Meanwhile I will stick with my Ace connectors and maybe try the new Paige P7363-LVC (http://www.paigewire.com/specs/P7363-LVC.htm).

It might be true that aluminum is a better conductor than brass, but will it resist corrosion as well?

http://www.paigewire.com/specs/images/P7363_1.jpg

http://www.paigewire.com/specs/images/P7363_2.jpg

http://www.paigewire.com/specs/images/P7363_3.jpg

JoeyD
07-31-2008, 02:53 PM
Argh. I hate the grease step. I get that crap on me and it mixes with dirt and ends up on my hands and clothes.

Joey, don't these heat-shrink connectors have a sealant inside of them? Isn't that enough?

I guess I was just trying to be general with the crimp connections. If they come pre filled with a di electric grease then that should be enough. But if you are making any connection you should ensure that it is protected properly with grease.

Lite4
07-31-2008, 03:19 PM
I always put a generous dab of GB anti-ox compound directly on my wires at the connections. When you heat the sleeve it just melts that compound into all the wires like butta.

Chris J
07-31-2008, 07:56 PM
That new grease that's in the Kings must be the same stuff as the Novagard G661. I received my shipment of Novagard last week, and I was suprised that it is simply pure silicone. I was under the impression that it was more like a grease, but the stuff is thick and sticky.

JoeyD
07-31-2008, 08:23 PM
That new grease that's in the Kings must be the same stuff as the Novagard G661. I received my shipment of Novagard last week, and I was suprised that it is simply pure silicone. I was under the impression that it was more like a grease, but the stuff is thick and sticky.


It is thick, but do you not like it? Curious to know what you guys think of the NovaGard....we use it on just about every connection and feel that it is the best compound to coat and seal wire nuts and protect bi pin sockets from wear and corrosion.

We have gone back to including some Ox Guard in a small container to dip your wire lead ends into before inserting them in the aluminum lugs inside the transformers. This too helps with protecting them over a longer period of time. I will try and gather more info for you guys as to why we felt the Ox Guard was better for the lugs.

Chris J
07-31-2008, 09:55 PM
I wasn't complaining Joey. I haven't had the opportunity to work with it yet, so I don't have an opinion at this point. I was simply saying that I was expecting something entirely different. In my mind's eye, I envisioned some kind of gray or dark brown compound like axle grease.

Mike M
07-31-2008, 10:06 PM
That's it! We need Unique to install grease fittings on connectors, fixtures, and transformers.

irrig8r
08-01-2008, 01:14 AM
Zerks?.......

Chris J
08-01-2008, 07:27 AM
And then we could include "Lube jobs" as part of our service package, right Mike?

Mike M
08-01-2008, 05:49 PM
Yeah. Zerks. No taking the shrouds off. Yes, Chris, lube service every 2,500 hours or 12 months, whichever comes first.

Alright, I'm being sarcastic about all this grease talk, but I hate grease and dirt together on my hands and clothes.

I am still looking for a better delivery item, I need a tube that squirts this crap out without me having to touch it. A fine nozzle. Even "super glue" has better tubes now for keeping the "my eyelids are glued shut" syndrome from happening. I bought some recently with a finer tip for accuracy and it was a lot better.

I hate grease.

JoeyD
08-01-2008, 05:57 PM
I wasn't complaining Joey. I haven't had the opportunity to work with it yet, so I don't have an opinion at this point. I was simply saying that I was expecting something entirely different. In my mind's eye, I envisioned some kind of gray or dark brown compound like axle grease.

No I know you arent! But I am curious as to what you guys think on stuff liek this that was all. You know how internet is, it is hard to type your tone of voice or what you really mean sometimes!

Well boys off to Baja Mexico for another off road race with nate and Randy!!! See ya guys on Monday if i am alive!!!