PDA

View Full Version : Big Install looking for direction!!!!


lehrjetmx
07-27-2008, 09:47 AM
Here is the baseline info:
190 x 210 piece of property.
60 PSI with 35 GPM off a 1.5 horse.
Looking to run 1.5 PVC pipe out of the house thru the backflow out to a truck line with 6 zones valves attached again 1.5 RB's. From there should I stay with the 1.5 PVC pipe or 1 PVC pipe or even 1 polypipe which we normal run. Only asking due to the pressure and GPM. Thought the 1.5 PVC would be best with swing joints for the heads. We normally run poly pipe but something keeps telling me 18 GPM max for 1 inch poly. Going to run 10-12 rotor heads per zone spacing looks good.
This is my first big install like this but the only thing that changes from a normal install is the presure and GPM so everything should be the same. Will be the first on the trencher though!!!!!
Would anybody use a bigger main truck? Would you use polypipe after the valve? And what size?
Thanks for the help!!!!

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-27-2008, 10:04 AM
If you have 1.5 pvc @ 35 gpm or so to the manifold. In the past I have run 1.5 poly zone feeds to a 1 and 1/4 zone lines..Also when we attached our zone lines we split the heads to keep the flow almost the same after the T to inch and a quarter...

Keep the water strong for as long as possible is how I was taught...Sometimes it was an overkill, most of the time it made the job profitable.....

good luck...

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 10:06 AM
30+ gpm is 2-inch pipe territory, even though you can use 1-1/2" valves. Unless you are looking for a pressurized main, the need for any PVC is questionable.

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-27-2008, 10:09 AM
30+ gpm is 2-inch pipe territory, even though you can use 1-1/2" valves. Unless you are looking for a pressurized main, the need for any PVC is questionable.

Def agreed..Use the poly pipe when possible...

And you can totally get away with the 1.5....

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 10:12 AM
but something keeps telling me 18 GPM max for 1 inch poly.

Poly and sch 40 pvc are the same....for 1" you can only cram 12 gpm through
it without violating the 5' per second rule. The friction loss is about the same, too....about 3.5 psi per 100'.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 10:27 AM
35 gpm does produce losses in 1-1/2 pipe, so upsizing gives you a safety factor, in the event you need it, One could also dink around with the pressure switch, and go for 70+ psi supply pressure, albeit at a lower flow. What backflow preventer does the system get?

WalkGood
07-27-2008, 10:44 AM
Here is the baseline info:
190 x 210 piece of property.
60 PSI with 35 GPM off a 1.5 horse.
Looking to run 1.5 PVC pipe out of the house thru the backflow out to a truck line with 6 zones valves attached again 1.5 RB's.

Am I Missing something here? 190 x 210 is not really big. If you can be assured of extended run times at your GPM and PSI, then Tee off from your zone valves with 1" poly. Easier to pull than trench, less expensive labor/materials. You can even pull 1.5" poly from the manifold, less trenching. Then tee "down" to the 1" poly lines.

Two , 1" poly lines on each tee'd 1.5" ZV would support your 10-12 heads per ZV depending on your nozzles. Also helps you out if in future the water volume is decreased in drought times.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 10:49 AM
It's on a well, so unless he has the owner's permission, he isn't going to underdraw the well capacity and install a CSV. (which would simplify things)

lehrjetmx
07-27-2008, 11:52 AM
CAPT/ Wet Boots/ Mike & Walk - Thanks for the advice!!!
The backflow not too sure was going for the standard watts 8004 1.5 that we normally use not that big though.
I need to add 1 other thing that this is a farm house and the pump also supplies water to the barn and to a 4 system drip line to feed the mums. So I really don't want to mess with whats already there. I pretty much need to keep the supply PSI/ GPM where its at now. The well was moved last week closer to the house so I will need to hook up the Drip system and the lawn. I would like to run 1.5 main truck PVC and single wire valve's to 1.5 poly sounds like the best way to go with this to make it easier on me in the long run. Do any off you guys think I should go with the WM system as far as a clock?

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 12:06 PM
If you can't go Calsense or Rain Master. the W*M Smartline is pretty cool, We've got four
in service & have had problems zero. Hank is putting one in now that uses the Hunter flow sensor,
will be interesting to see how that works.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 12:09 PM
Your first choices for pipe sizes will subtract more pressure than you might think, so how are you going to deal with maybe having 30 psi, or less, at some heads? Bumping up pipe sizes effectively removes their losses from the equation. On an acre, you could have a 300 foot run to a distant zone, and lose close to 10 psi through 1-1/2 pipe at 35 gpm.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 12:14 PM
I'd be leaning towards 2" main & design the zones to have at least 40-60 at the head.
What are you watering?

Waterit
07-27-2008, 12:20 PM
Is this 190 x 210 a wide open area, or is that the total property size?

We like to over-size our main and run down one side of to-be-irrigated area, dropping off valves as we go. Each valve will feed 2 lateral lines, valve placed in middle of laterals to break down pipe size and save some $$$ without compromising flow.

SL1600 excellent controller choice if budget won't afford Cal or RM. Been using them for about 5 years, no probs so far other than the occasional lightning hit cooking a module.

greenmonster304
07-27-2008, 03:03 PM
If this is run off a well that supplies a barn do you even need a backflow device?

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 03:07 PM
If this is run off a well that supplies a barn do you even need a backflow device?If not now, then in the future. Jersey doesn't grandfather old sprinkler work, so you might as well install the PVB now, and factor in the pressure loss.

lehrjetmx
07-27-2008, 03:23 PM
Waterit--- Is this 190 x 210 a wide open area, or is that the total property size? This is a front yard wide open area!!!!!!!

Mike Leary--- I'd be leaning towards 2" main & design the zones to have at least 40-60 at the head.
What are you watering? JUST GRASS!!!!!!

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 03:52 PM
JUST GRASS!!!!!!

Go for previously advised specs, you want Hunter I-20 Ultra 6" stainless heads.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 04:17 PM
Go for previously advised specs, you want Hunter I-20 Ultra 6" stainless heads.I would save the I-20 stuff for an upsell. Lawn will be plenty happy on PGPs. What I would look at, though, is the possibility of operation at 50+ psi at the heads, with larger nozzles, and less heads per zone. This allows more space between heads, if you can achieve 40+ foot radii.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 04:23 PM
I would save the I-20 stuff for an upsell

Piker.........

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 04:29 PM
Piker.........I put the dollars where they count. One drawback to using 6-inch popups is how they could tilt with high-pressure-and-flow operation. Run a PGP #11 at 60 psi, and it needs some bracing. Raise the nozzle, and it would need even more.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 04:38 PM
I put the dollars where they count..

"count" is getting it right the first time, screw "up sell", they'll round you up
like the guy Fimco suggested to park in the neighborhood. I like I-20s, a lot,
can't say if we've had failure one, have always used stainless risers. Solid
swing joints are the deal here.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 04:51 PM
Care to prove there is a difference between the internals of a PGP and an I-20?

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 05:11 PM
Care to prove there is a difference between the internals of a PGP and an I-20?

No.....they work for my application...high iron, high magnesium, salts, you
name it...we've got it.....the pgp version failed early on with the conditions.
Changing to stainless risers made it happen; zone 96 is coming on as we speak.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 05:27 PM
They're the same thing internally, so go figure.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 05:32 PM
They're the same thing internally, so go figure.

Stainless risers.......Wished RB made me a 6" T-Bird stainless, same for Stream Rotor.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 06:17 PM
Stainless risers.......Wished RB made me a 6" T-Bird stainless, same for Stream Rotor.Plastic riser, plastic spindle. Stainless steel shell. The internal drive mechanisms are identical.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 06:30 PM
Plastic riser, plastic spindle. Stainless steel shell. The internal drive mechanisms are identical.

Yup....world of difference with stainless risers. Gotta sell them out front.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 06:46 PM
Not stainless risers. Just a shell. A covering. All the load-bearing parts are plastic. You can punt the top off an I-20SS as easily as a PGP.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 07:29 PM
Not stainless risers. Just a shell.

Only a pawn in their game? Who cares, what works, works.

Dirty Water
07-27-2008, 07:31 PM
Not stainless risers. Just a shell. A covering. All the load-bearing parts are plastic. You can punt the top off an I-20SS as easily as a PGP.

Plus the shell tends to free-spin, making adjusting a biatch.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 07:34 PM
Plus the shell tends to free-spin, making adjusting a biatch.

More children playing with adult toys.

Wet_Boots
07-27-2008, 07:41 PM
Hey, it's great marketing. Even better than Rain Curtain nozzles. Architects love to specify them.

Mike Leary
07-27-2008, 08:30 PM
Architects love to specify them.

Me too.... :p