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STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-27-2008, 02:44 PM
I'm getting ready to put my personal pond in at my house. The pond basin will be around 15x20 maybe a little smaller @ about 2.5ft deep. Will a 5x8 area be enough for a bog filtration system without a skimmer? I'll be adding a skimmer at a later time when more funds are available. I have an idea on what I'll do but I'd like some other thoughts.

ANC Stone Creations
07-27-2008, 08:58 PM
The bog area should be about a 1/3 the surface area of your pond.
It should be located higher in elevation then the top of the water in the pond.

Bogs are not deep but rather shallow places only 4"-6" deep of washed pea gravel. But remember over time the water level in your bog may rise 4"-5" do to plant growth in bog.

You need water plants for the bog to complete the filter as the rocks only filter so much.

Some other plants you may use in the bog are Day Lilies, Astilbe and Hostas but remember to remove all the dirt from the roots.

Hope this helps.

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-28-2008, 12:24 AM
Everything helps. I'm looking for a meeting of the minds. lol! I just like checking out different ideas to certain builds. I'm building mine to test some theories and to see what happens with with certian type plants for the most part.

ANC Stone Creations
07-28-2008, 02:53 AM
How is the water feature industry near you?

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-28-2008, 02:22 PM
The market here is getting better, but we do more hardscapes than waterfeatures when it's not raining.

ANC Stone Creations
07-28-2008, 02:35 PM
How about the market for pondless column water features?
Have you seen many over there?

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
07-29-2008, 06:49 PM
How about the market for pondless column water features?
Have you seen many over there?

To be honest I haven't seen any boulder or column features. I'm ready to install them, but mostly people opt for a pondless waterfall. Our major stone supplier has a listing for core drilling some of the more popular boulders for $75 a pop up to 2ft which is fair in my eyes. You moving to Missouri ANC?

ANC Stone Creations
07-29-2008, 07:09 PM
No, not moving just wondering how the market was on pondless column features.

I use faux stone columns that may be installed in one day with no heavy machines needed.

To give you an idea of the weight and price a 58" column @ apr.18" diameter would only weigh about 110 lbs compare that to natural stone about 1800 lbs.
I think the faux stone about that size is only around $400 and you don't need a machine to place it.

Az Gardener
07-29-2008, 09:24 PM
Bogs are the best filtration. I run 2"-3"perforated pipe at the bottom then I fill the bog with small 1/2" lava rock. It is very porous and provides a good habitat for beneficial bacteria. I like the rock to be about 6"-8" deep and 2"-4" of water on top of the rock.

Then I plant; here we use Iris, Canna lilies, Umbrella grass, Hornwort, Water Hyacinth, Parrots beak, Tarro.

The pump moves the water from the lower bowl and into the perforated pipe that is run in serpentine loop at the bottom of the bog. It keeps the water moving throughout the whole bog. After we complete we seed it with beneficial bacteria. Works like a charm.

Lite4
07-29-2008, 10:19 PM
I do everything AZ does with his bogs. His advice is spot on.

Venturewest
07-30-2008, 08:52 PM
For those of you who build bogs like Firefly and AZ, is there any kind of routine maintenance you have found necessary. In the large bog, pond combination I built I put in a cleanout for each lateral just in case. Do you ever have to clean the gravel? I am bidding another nice pond right now and am debating on using the bog again.

The other one I did still has great clarity. Seems to be really well balanced already.

Az Gardener
07-30-2008, 09:52 PM
We pull the pump quarterly and clean it out. Then we put a pvc cap with a threaded valve stem on the outgoing side and run the air compressor up to about 40-45 lbs and blow out the line. It starts looking like the bog is boiling.

The funny part is this is just what the pond owner has asked us to do, kind of a peace of mind kind of thing to see everything is still flowing. I had nothing to do with it except mounting the valve stem in a cap as opposed to blowing air into a pipe while holding a rag over the end. :dizzy: If it ever does not work I don't know what we would do short of ripping the bog apart. This one has been working about 3 years with no problems, it is a 8,000 gallon pond.

The H/O also applies a biological product to oxygenate the water.

XStream Aquatics
08-18-2008, 11:15 PM
The bog area should be about a 1/3 the surface area of your pond.
It should be located higher in elevation then the top of the water in the pond.

Bogs are not deep but rather shallow places only 4"-6" deep of washed pea gravel. But remember over time the water level in your bog may rise 4"-5" do to plant growth in bog.

You need water plants for the bog to complete the filter as the rocks only filter so much.

Some other plants you may use in the bog are Day Lilies, Astilbe and Hostas but remember to remove all the dirt from the roots.

Hope this helps.

I disagree with these numbers. Go to http://bogfiltration.com/bogfiltration.html , this is how we build ours. I promise you will want to install this version when it comes time to clean your bog. It is so easy to maintain this system verses having to tear out all the gravel to cleanout, which we just did last week for a customer.

XStream Aquatics
08-18-2008, 11:33 PM
Here is one we did in Atlanta, GA in July this year. The plants aren't in yet in the pic.

Lite4
08-19-2008, 09:59 AM
Thanks Xtreme,
Very nice link on the bog filters

ponddude
03-01-2010, 08:31 PM
The pump moves the water from the lower bowl and into the perforated pipe that is run in serpentine loop at the bottom of the bog. .

What is a serpentine loop?

turner_landscaping
03-02-2010, 09:07 AM
Ive built a lot of bogs over the years and the way i do them now is a lot easier. The typical rule is for a bog is 10% of your pond size. I preferr bigger though. How we create our bog system is typically they are about 18" deep. We create a settlment chamber or void in the bottom of the bog usually around 8" deep using 8" cinder block we place a corrigated grate over the chamber. The way we clean out our bogs is to put a vault in so a pump can be used to suck out the crude that has collected in the chamber. To make it easier slant your bog toward the vault. We run a up flow pipe in and then we fill with gravel. We us different sizes of gravel the first being a 3-4" stone then wash 57 the a fine gravel placed on top of the grate. When we plant a bog we use plants that have an aggressive root systems iris, rushes, hardy canna, hardy umbrella palm, bog beans, parrots feather etc. I would stay away from using lava rock in a bog system because the porus make-up of the stone gets clogged with dirt and sediment. I use this system on large koi ponds 20x20 and up without U.V. and i have never had water clarity problems. Usually on a large koi ponds my bogs will be 30-40% size of the pond. Most homeowners dont understand how big a koi can get. A bog filtration system is the best way to go in my opinion if you have the space to build one.

turner_landscaping
03-02-2010, 09:08 AM
Where did you get the waterwheel xtreme? pond looks great!

XStream Aquatics
03-03-2010, 09:34 AM
It was donated from a local craftsman in the community.

Leon
03-04-2010, 07:43 PM
Stay away from cattails, very invasive and harder than heck to dig out and remove. There are several others I don't use but don't remember right at the moment which ones.

tadpole
03-04-2010, 10:11 PM
I agree about cattails, especially in a small system. It has been documented, however, that they are by far THE BEST aquatic plant for filtering most everything from the water column including heavy metals. I will use them in a large wetlands where some serious filtration is indicated, such as a highly run-off polluted earth bottom farm/country pond.

CGSI
03-17-2010, 11:41 PM
I have built a few like some of the others on here. the best one was for my brothers swimming pond. It has been crystal clear since we put it in with no chems.

tadpole
03-18-2010, 10:33 AM
Really looks great!! It appears to be quite large in comparison to swimming area. Did you have any problems with the local authorities on going chemical free?

CGSI
03-18-2010, 02:44 PM
upper is about 8x10 and the lower is about 20 x 15 as far as local authories, we dont advertise it as a swimming pond he treats it as a ornimental pond that they occasionally get in to sometimes. ( actually the kids are in it quite a bit) here all swimming pools by law are supposed to have fences but not on onimental features.

ponddude
03-27-2010, 05:54 PM
Where do you guys buy your drain pipe from? I am finding 6-8 pipe but have not had any luck finding 18" for the chimney?

Drew Gemma
03-27-2010, 11:31 PM
I would like to build one for my pond at home!

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
03-28-2010, 11:22 AM
Where do you guys buy your drain pipe from? I am finding 6-8 pipe but have not had any luck finding 18" for the chimney?

Dude, do you have a "Wholesale Plumbing" near you? You should be able to get that drain pipe from any plumbing supply house or most landscape/drainage supply yards.

ponddude
03-30-2010, 11:08 AM
Dude, do you have a "Wholesale Plumbing" near you? You should be able to get that drain pipe from any plumbing supply house or most landscape/drainage supply yards.

I know you would think it would be easy to find, but I have talked to about 10 different wholesalers and none of them stock it. I was able to find one shop that could special order the 18" for $23 per foot.

tadpole
03-30-2010, 12:12 PM
Are you really that concerned about cost? I would not use anything other than a pump vault manufactured for use in a wetlands system. They are engineered specifically for this purpose and are designed to achieve maximum water flow without sacrificing structural strength. It is my contention that if a customer is going to be that concerned with project cost, then they probably can't really afford it. I will not cut corners and compromise quality on any of my installs. If a potential customer wants a jury-rigged installation, I politely bow out.

wurkn with amish
03-30-2010, 06:23 PM
anyone have pics of building a bog with the serpentine pipe? and cleanouts?

ponddude
04-04-2010, 10:07 AM
quick question.. lets say you have a small pond. Normally a biofilter weir would be used for filtration with some kind of media in it..bio balls/blocks etc.. and only takes up a small area.

Why does building with a bog take up such a huge area in comparison? I know you want room to grow plants to help filter. Can you make it smaller and just add a bag of bio media in the pump chimmey?

Just curious.. I really love the look of bogs and the concept..

tadpole
04-04-2010, 01:13 PM
Why does building with a bog take up such a huge area in comparison?

Effective bioconversion requires considerable surface area be available for the colonization of nitrifying bacteria. The amount of surface area required is dictated by the total volume of water being filtered. The filter media used in manufactured biofilters (bioballs, biomats, lava rock,etc.) have considerably more available surface area than the gravel that is used in construction of what many in the industry call 'Bogs'. Hence, to achieve the same amount of bioconversion a 'Bog' must be proportionately larger than a Biofilter.
The main reason, however, for constructing this form of filtration is to make space available for the use of plants (Phyto-filtration) and to create a habitat for myriad beneficial invertebrates.

On a side note, The term 'Bog' as applies to this type of filtration is incorrect. A Bog is a form of wetlands that is composed of spongy, decayed plant matter that is noted for it's high acidity. The filtration modules that are being constructed in the pond industry are more correctly identified as constructed Marshes.

I also don't like using the term "Bog' because it is British slang for the Toilet, Crapper, Latrine et.al.

STL Ponds and Waterfalls
04-04-2010, 01:22 PM
I also don't like using the term "Bog' because it is British slang for the Toilet, Crapper, Latrine et.al.

I thought that was leu (sp):dancing: Tadpole I sent you a pm

tadpole
04-04-2010, 01:37 PM
Yea, they also call it the Loo.(The more polite term)