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csmlawn
07-28-2008, 11:05 AM
I contacted my irrigation company to come out and perform a warranty visit to repair/replace some faulty sprinkler heads/values in my irrigation system and to raise some of the heads that either had settled below grade or were installed to deep. Well, through constant communication on my part via telephone calls, faxes, emails, I was able to get a tech out to my home a month later (first telephone contact 6/24/08) on 7/25/08. I left a remote to the garage so the tech could access the control panel for the individual zones, but I also marked all valve box locations. Each value box has 2 to 3 valves that correspond with the closest zone(s). I get home Friday evening and noticed one sprinkler head was replaced... that's it. I called the tech who left me his cell phone number to ask about the other sprinker heads, but was unable to reach him. I get a call a few minutes later from the owner of the irrigation company, asking not to call his techs. Uhhhh okay, then why did he leave me his number??? ;) Anyway, he said the tech was unable to get into the garage to activate the zones because the garage door opener didn't work or the tech couldn't figure out how to work the opener. I told him that I marked all value locations with colored flags if the tech needed to activate the zones manually. He said, how would the tech know which value worked what zone. I'm thinking to myself, is this guy serious? :confused: I said, because I've left you several diagrams of the zone locations over the couse of our contract (look in your file) and if you manually activate a value it will turn on a zone and you can see on the diagram which zone that is. Plus my zones go from 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on across my front yard... easy. Turn valve on, look and see what zone comes on, if a zone comes on that doesn't have sprinkler heads marked by flags, turn it off and go to the next valve in the box. He was still perplexed and asked but are the flags marked 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on? I told him, they don't have to be!!! :mad: Plus I marked the problem sprinker heads with flags so the tech could easily locate them. Well, I guess he'll just have to come back out... but make sure you leave a garage door opener that works so he can turn on the zones at the controller... that would be easiest. Oh and we don't warranty sprinkler heads that have settled or are too low. That's up to the homeowner to raise them. I said, but you installed them and if they were installed too low, you should raise them... correct. Uhhhh we'll see when we come back out.

Whoa!!! :wall

DanaMac
07-28-2008, 11:10 AM
Want a job? You seem to know way more than this company you hired and more than most of the entry level guys in the industry. You are absolutely correct on what you said. We, for the most part, still turn on manually through the valves and just figure out what comes on when we operate the valve. This company your paying is apparently a crock and you should find a new one.

Good luck getting it done.

AI Inc
07-28-2008, 11:14 AM
He, s pretty much looking for any excuse not to give you what you paid for.

Wet_Boots
07-28-2008, 11:45 AM
Report back. This company sounds like fun. (to bash)

Waterit
07-28-2008, 12:56 PM
Don't know how you could have made it any easier for them, except by doing the rest of the work yourself.

Just asking - was this co. the original installer, and were they low bid?

WalkGood
07-28-2008, 01:02 PM
When was the installation done?

Mike Leary
07-28-2008, 03:06 PM
Obviously, the contractor does not give a rat about "word of mouth".
Sounds like the business owner needs a lesson about civility, too.

Waterit
07-28-2008, 04:14 PM
Obviously, the contractor does not give a rat about "word of mouth".

Hope the guy asking about advertising his new business tunes into this thread, learns how NOT to do it...

Sounds like the business owner needs a lesson about civility, too.

Yeah, let's sic WetBoots and WalkGood on him.

WalkGood
07-28-2008, 10:00 PM
Yeah, let's sic WetBoots and WalkGood on him.


What, are we "hit men" or something?

:gunsfirin

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-28-2008, 10:04 PM
post the name....plz..we can flame

hoskm01
07-28-2008, 10:37 PM
post the name....plz..we can flame
pics of their crap would be nice too.

csmlawn
07-28-2008, 11:02 PM
Here is the company's information:
Name: Turf Plus
Address: PO Box 634
Arnold, MD 21012-4634
or
9517 Gulleys Cove Ln
Easton, MD 21601 Map

Original Business Start Date: March 1987
Incorporated: March 1987
Employees: ?
TOB Classification: Lawn Maintenance

This company was the original installer of our irrigation system and every time I need them to come out it's like pulling teeth. When they do come out it's substandard work or excuses like this that require another visit. Pretty sad they treat their customers like this.

WalkGood
07-28-2008, 11:20 PM
Here is the company's information:
Name: Turf Plus
Address: PO Box 634
Arnold, MD 21012-4634
or
9517 Gulleys Cove Ln
Easton, MD 21601 Map

Original Business Start Date: March 1987
Incorporated: March 1987
Employees: ?
TOB Classification: Lawn Maintenance

This company was the original installer of our irrigation system and every time I need them to come out it's like pulling teeth. When they do come out it's substandard work or excuses like this that require another visit. Pretty sad they treat their customers like this.


Sounds like a lawn mowing company that dabbles in irrigation.

csmlawn
07-28-2008, 11:24 PM
I'll take pictures and post them. The system is Weathermatic with T3 adjustable rotors and twin WM12-N (indoor) controllers. I don't know what valves are installed... I'll have to look that up.

hoskm01
07-28-2008, 11:24 PM
Sounds like a lawn mowing company that dabbles in irrigation.
Or a dabbling company that irrigates while mowing.

hoskm01
07-28-2008, 11:26 PM
I'll take pictures and post them. The system is Weathermatic with T3 adjustable rotors and twin WM12-N (indoor) controllers. I don't know what valves are installed... I'll have to look that up.
They couldnt buy one controller for all 24?

Like all the info. Invite them on for a chat.

csmlawn
07-28-2008, 11:32 PM
Sounds like a lawn mowing company that dabbles in irrigation.

They don't do any mowing (not that I'm aware of), however, they do fertilizer programs, arrating, dethatching, seeding, in addition to irrigation system installation.

WalkGood
07-28-2008, 11:37 PM
They don't do any mowing (not that I'm aware of), however, they do fertilizer programs, arrating, dethatching, seeding, in addition to irrigation system installation.


Wow, that makes them an even worse company if they treat their bread-n-butter customers this bad.

Best advice, forget about them. Get someone else to fix what you have and be done with it.

EagleLandscape
07-28-2008, 11:40 PM
Well, without getting to the controller, how can he tell if the valve works or not. Manual bleed is one thing, 24v actuation is another. even with a station master, wires could be cut. Settled heads is not a warranty issue, clogged nozzles could/could not be warranty issue. If the heads were too low to begin with, then thats another problem. I have to raise/adjust 15 heads a year at my own house. Soil moves when wet/dry, every soil does.

The companies customer service is horrible, will not argue that.

csmlawn
07-28-2008, 11:45 PM
Wow, that makes them an even worse company if they treat their bread-n-butter customers this bad.

Best advice, forget about them. Get someone else to fix what you have and be done with it.

Given the amount of dissatisfaction I've had with their service, I have learned a great deal about my irrigation system from working on it myself. I just feel I shouldn't have to since the system is under warranty.

Waterit
07-29-2008, 12:13 AM
What, are we "hit men" or something?

:gunsfirin

Best flamers we have!

Kiril
07-29-2008, 10:11 AM
Plain sad. What good is a warranty if you have to deal with chit like this?

Mike Leary
07-29-2008, 12:38 PM
They don't do any mowing (not that I'm aware of), however, they do fertilizer programs, arrating, dethatching, seeding, in addition to irrigation system installation.

Sound like hacks, how did you find them? Pics please. I don't get the two
clocks, that's a problem waiting to happen unless you've got two points-of-
connection.

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 02:37 PM
Sound like hacks, how did you find them? Pics please. I don't get the two
clocks, that's a problem waiting to happen unless you've got two points-of-
connection.

My next door neighbor used this contractor for his last two homes and he was happy and after I talked to them about the install and price, seemed like a good deal. Granted, now that I know my neighbor a little better and the fact he never takes care of his lawn or landscaping, I can understand why he was happy... he just doesn't know any better. There have been several occassions where I noticed staight lines of tall green grass where to the left and right of these strips it was burnt. The first thing that came to mind was he has stuck sprinkler heads. So, one evening I watched as each zone came on and saw six heads that were stuck. I corrected the stuck heads so they would rotate properly, but my neighbor never knew of the problem until I told him.

Flow Control
07-29-2008, 03:17 PM
How old is the system. Seems unusual for a newer system to have numerous problems with rotors and valves/values

Mike Leary
07-29-2008, 03:59 PM
It's a dual standard here: unless you have a service agreement with the contractor,
it's on your dime. Most of our clients choose service, but we still warranty owner-
operated systems we installed even if the client runs their own show, tho I do not
reccomend it, not for a profit motive, but every system needs a "tune up" from time
to time. The head raising issue is common; my feeling is "if we screwed it up, we'll
fix it, forever" & that includes raising the heads, but only for the first season.

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 04:41 PM
How old is the system. Seems unusual for a newer system to have numerous problems with rotors and valves/values

The system is two years old.

Mike Leary
07-29-2008, 04:45 PM
Where's the pics?.We're getting bored.

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 04:48 PM
Where's the pics?.We're getting bored.

LOL... I work for a living, office is in DC. :laugh:

What type of pictures would you like to see? Sprinkler head pop ups, valve box locations, controllers, etc???

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 04:54 PM
Here's a sprinkler head in zone 1 that leaks even when the system isn't even on.
http://picture.vzw.com/mi/295916342_1005243565_0.jpeg?limitsize=345,345&outquality=56&ext=.jpg&border=2,0,0,0

Mike Leary
07-29-2008, 05:06 PM
LOL... I work for a living, office is in DC. :laugh:

What type of pictures would you like to see? Sprinkler head pop ups, valve box locations, controllers, etc???

Everything that looks crappy, we don't like clean stuff.

txgrassguy
07-29-2008, 06:17 PM
Oh Boy, you guys jumped all over this thread

Issues like low heads, stuck heads or poor coverage is usually addressed during the first year - particularly if the company installing the systems isn't the one maintaining the grounds. Settling can/usually is a problem depending upon the type and structure of soil that comprises the turf site.
Concerning my company, I will not warranty settled heads, stuck heads or heads knocked out of level if I do not maintain the grounds. I conduct a walk through with the homeowner who then acknowledges everything is working per contract, with a signature, or the suspect area receives correction prior to final sign off.
I have seen way too many alleged "mowing professionals" pivot on top of a head/valve box/landscape edging to attempt to warranty settlement or coverage issues - UNLESS - the homeowner signs a maintenance contract.
Sounds to me that this contractor might of tried, admittedly just a bit, to address these issues.
If it was my company though, no maintenance contract - no return visits unless a materially defective item such as a "stuck" valve or broken pipe occurred with-in the first year.

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 06:54 PM
I see the link to the picture didn't work... let's try this one:
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/60/760/2/84/75/2209284750065895033IQhzCh_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2209284750065895033IQhzCh)

CAPT Stream Rotar
07-29-2008, 06:57 PM
I see the link to the picture didn't work... let's try this one:
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/60/760/2/84/75/2209284750065895033IQhzCh_th.jpg

if you want i can post them for you...

pm me with your email addy

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 07:13 PM
Oh Boy, you guys jumped all over this thread

Issues like low heads, stuck heads or poor coverage is usually addressed during the first year - particularly if the company installing the systems isn't the one maintaining the grounds. Settling can/usually is a problem depending upon the type and structure of soil that comprises the turf site.
Concerning my company, I will not warranty settled heads, stuck heads or heads knocked out of level if I do not maintain the grounds. I conduct a walk through with the homeowner who then acknowledges everything is working per contract, with a signature, or the suspect area receives correction prior to final sign off.
I have seen way too many alleged "mowing professionals" pivot on top of a head/valve box/landscape edging to attempt to warranty settlement or coverage issues - UNLESS - the homeowner signs a maintenance contract.
Sounds to me that this contractor might of tried, admittedly just a bit, to address these issues.
If it was my company though, no maintenance contract - no return visits unless a materially defective item such as a "stuck" valve or broken pipe occurred with-in the first year.

Yes, but only if you can get the installer back out to your property in the first year to warrant his hack job. :rolleyes:

Several of the heads within the first year leaked (see picture), I had a burst pipe at the backflow valve when it was turned on for the spring start up. I've been told that I had a seeping valve, however, it turned out to be a bad sprinkler head. I had wrong nozzles installed during a service visit and the list goes on.

In reference to the settled heads, some of the heads when they were first installed were installed too deep and did not clear the grass when the heads popped up. Grass is cut at 3-4 inches. This was the least of my concerns... my first and foremost priority was to get the heads to stop creating ponds in my yard. It's a sight to see when the head goes back down like a parascope. I find myself out in the yard digging up heads and raising them, removing them, bleeding valves, cleaning out sprinkler heads and so on... all within the first year, now I'm in year two and I'm still having issues that plagued me in the first year.

Maintenance contract, I'd consider it; however, based on the service I've received to date he can forget about it. He's luck I haven't contacted the BBB and lodged a complaint to be placed on file.

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 08:37 PM
Here's some pictures of the heads in action. Also, ignore the grass height, it gets cut tomorrow (we've had a lot of rain lately).

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/60/760/3/72/15/2658372150065895033MBiGzt_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2658372150065895033MBiGzt)
(wrong nozzle... low angle)
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/69/569/0/29/48/2864029480065895033EZOnPs_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2864029480065895033EZOnPs)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/50/750/4/34/40/2589434400065895033lqUehl_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2589434400065895033lqUehl)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/65/765/4/93/46/2523493460065895033zXDrJN_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2523493460065895033zXDrJN)
(this picture, the heads actually spray pretty good.)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/71/71/7/31/27/2292731270065895033ZeTDQv_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2292731270065895033ZeTDQv)
(wrong nozzles in this zone... low angle barely clears grass)
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/65/765/7/99/7/2069799070065895033zJAxGg_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2069799070065895033zJAxGg)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/50/750/6/61/44/2335661440065895033qmTxFW_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2335661440065895033qmTxFW)
(head just been replaced)
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/65/765/8/72/83/2719872830065895033SguTLa_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2719872830065895033SguTLa)

EagleLandscape
07-29-2008, 10:03 PM
I dunno. Your grass is way too tall. Doesnt look like wrong nozzles, looks like they over tightened the diffusing screw to me.

mow your yard.

csmlawn
07-29-2008, 10:36 PM
I dunno. Your grass is way too tall. Doesnt look like wrong nozzles, looks like they over tightened the diffusing screw to me.

mow your yard.

That's why I said, ignore the height of the lawn. :dizzy: Grass was cut 9 days ago at 3.5 inches, however, we have had major down pours in the last week and my grass grows quickly, which is why it gets cut weekly.

Lawn typically looks like this:
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/57/557/0/75/49/2074075490065895033JgWrvb_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2074075490065895033JgWrvb)http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/59/159/9/2/30/2481902300065895033akvGqH_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2481902300065895033akvGqH)http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/16/16/3/7/24/2212307240065895033UBoQfc_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2212307240065895033UBoQfc)

In reference to the diffusing screw... I checked them, it's not that. It's the angle at the way the water comes out of the head, which looks like the wrong nozzle (low angle).

Waterit
07-29-2008, 10:44 PM
Please get the pictures to be 800 x 600 pixels - us old guys can hardly see the thumbnail-sized ones.

Be sure to tell all your friends and anyone else who will listen about this company's sterling customer-service level, professionalism, and quality work.

Then get someone new to take care of you - this dude isn't worth his weight in cow-flop.

bicmudpuppy
07-29-2008, 11:24 PM
Yes, the service is terrible. Yes, the installation appears (from your description) to be sub par, BUT you stated that you LIKED the price and relied on a neighbors recommendation. Life is a tough school, but at some point everyone should finally have to learn that you get what you pay for AND have to ante up at some point for keeping lowball hacks in business.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 12:09 AM
my feeling is "if we screwed it up, we'll
fix it, forever" & that includes raising the heads, but only for the first season.

Ditto :clapping::clapping::clapping:

Kiril
07-30-2008, 12:21 AM
ROFL. That backflow setup is a joke. Heads are obviously too low. Do yourself a favor and dump the 4" pops and move to 6" if your going to mow your grass at 4".

@JW -> why is his grass too tall? Looks like fescue to me, which means 3.5 - 4" mow height is perfectly acceptable.

JimLewis
07-30-2008, 05:00 AM
Wow. Sounds like you ended up with a pretty poor company, an owner who doesn't really know much about irrigation, and a technician who knew even less. That's unfortunate. If it were me, I'd move on to someone else who knew their stuff.

That being said, it would have been nice if you had been able to be there on-site when the tech. showed up. I agree that you did a lot to make his job easier. And he should have been able to figure it out. But still, all this could have been avoided if you had been there to just show him this stuff when he arrived.

Not blaming you - I am just saying it would have helped things go more smoothly.

We have a FT irrigation technician who does just this kind of stuff all day, every day. He's fantastic. But even as good as he is, we almost always insist that our clients be home when he arrives. If they want to leave after he shows up and they've explained everything - that's not a big problem. But we like the clients to be there when he arrives just so there aren't any problems like this and everyone's clear on what needs to be done.

I do get frustrated with clients who are just "too busy" to take an hour or two out of their day to meet with someone who is servicing a fairly important part of their property. I know when I call a service tech. from Dish Network or Sears Appliance Repair or Brinks Home Security to service something at my home, I am given a 4 hour window when they will arrive and I have to be there to show them what I want done. I kind of expect the same courtesy when someone wants our service tech. to come to their house. Although I don't need a 4 hour window. We can usually get it down within an hour of the time he'll arrive.

FIMCO-MEISTER
07-30-2008, 06:42 AM
Anybody notice the 6" valve boxes?:):p

hoskm01
07-30-2008, 07:52 AM
Anybody notice the 6" valve boxes?:):p
It hurts to see such a thing.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 08:53 AM
It hurts to see such a thing.

Yea, I died a little inside. Must be a TX transplant. :cry:

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 09:23 AM
It hurts to see such a thing.

I thought the Texans bought all the 6" in the country, obviously a few remained.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 10:06 AM
I thought the Texans bought all the 6" in the country, obviously a few remained.

lol, they don't need to. They are infamous.

Ewing #38005610 (http://www.ewing1.com/_media/ews_cat_2006_3800.pdf) TEXAS ECONO 6IN BOX/GREEN LID

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 10:31 AM
Please get the pictures to be 800 x 600 pixels - us old guys can hardly see the thumbnail-sized ones.

Be sure to tell all your friends and anyone else who will listen about this company's sterling customer-service level, professionalism, and quality work.

Then get someone new to take care of you - this dude isn't worth his weight in cow-flop.

In reference to the thumbnail pictures, you should be able to click on them (the thumbnails) which will hyperlink you to the larger pictures.

In reference to the 6" valve boxes, yeah, them things are all over the front of my lawn. It's like an Easter egg hunt to find the valves sometimes... even with a diagram on their locations :dizzy:

I would seriously consider 6 inch pop ups, however, I have 56 heads in my irrigation system... so that might be a tad costly. ;)

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 10:42 AM
Wow. Sounds like you ended up with a pretty poor company, an owner who doesn't really know much about irrigation, and a technician who knew even less. That's unfortunate. If it were me, I'd move on to someone else who knew their stuff.

That being said, it would have been nice if you had been able to be there on-site when the tech. showed up. I agree that you did a lot to make his job easier. And he should have been able to figure it out. But still, all this could have been avoided if you had been there to just show him this stuff when he arrived.

Not blaming you - I am just saying it would have helped things go more smoothly.

We have a FT irrigation technician who does just this kind of stuff all day, every day. He's fantastic. But even as good as he is, we almost always insist that our clients be home when he arrives. If they want to leave after he shows up and they've explained everything - that's not a big problem. But we like the clients to be there when he arrives just so there aren't any problems like this and everyone's clear on what needs to be done.

I do get frustrated with clients who are just "too busy" to take an hour or two out of their day to meet with someone who is servicing a fairly important part of their property. I know when I call a service tech. from Dish Network or Sears Appliance Repair or Brinks Home Security to service something at my home, I am given a 4 hour window when they will arrive and I have to be there to show them what I want done. I kind of expect the same courtesy when someone wants our service tech. to come to their house. Although I don't need a 4 hour window. We can usually get it down within an hour of the time he'll arrive.

I make it a point to meet with any contractor that comes to my home to perform work in case there's questions. However, the tech was suppose to be at my home on two prior occassions and didn't show for one reason or another. Then I get a call on a Thursday two weeks later after my constant phone calls and faxes (contractor has no email), saying the tech will be out to my house on Friday. I told the owner that I can't be there on Friday to meet the tech. He said that's not a problem, just leave a remote to the garage doors so he can get in and operate the control panel (Side note: The remote I left for the tech, I forgot to reprogram it for the doors and he wasn't able to get into the garage). I told him that I'd rather be home when someone is on my property working. He said, well I don't know when the next time I can get him back out there... he's busy. This is the kind of service after my first phone call to the company owner was back on 6/24/2008, he sends a tech out to my home on 7/25/2008, a MONTH LATER to look at the problem. Prior visits, I got stood up when I was home. Plus, all the problem sprinkler heads were marked with flags, all valve box locations were marked with flags just in case he wanted to manually opperate the zones and I left him a detailed explaination on which heads in which zones that I was having issues with. Seemed fullproof to me for someone not to screw it up. :hammerhead:

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 10:55 AM
ROFL. That backflow setup is a joke. Heads are obviously too low. Do yourself a favor and dump the 4" pops and move to 6" if your going to mow your grass at 4".

What's up with the backflow? Is there something I can do to improve this set up? Thanks.

Scott

Wet_Boots
07-30-2008, 11:00 AM
Leave the PVB alone. Cheaply plumbed, but probably secure enough.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:17 AM
I make it a point to meet with any contractor that comes to my home to perform work in case there's questions. However, the tech was suppose to be at my home on two prior occassions and didn't show for one reason or another. Then I get a call on a Thursday two weeks later after my constant phone calls and faxes (contractor has no email), saying the tech will be out to my house on Friday. I told the owner that I can't be there on Friday to meet the tech. He said that's not a problem, just leave a remote to the garage doors so he can get in and operate the control panel (Side note: The remote I left for the tech, I forgot to reprogram it for the doors and he wasn't able to get into the garage). I told him that I'd rather be home when someone is on my property working. He said, well I don't know when the next time I can get him back out there... he's busy. This is the kind of service after my first phone call to the company owner was back on 6/24/2008, he sends a tech out to my home on 7/25/2008, a MONTH LATER to look at the problem. Prior visits, I got stood up when I was home. Plus, all the problem sprinkler heads were marked with flags, all valve box locations were marked with flags just in case he wanted to manually opperate the zones and I left him a detailed explaination on which heads in which zones that I was having issues with. Seemed fullproof to me for someone not to screw it up. :hammerhead:

Don't sweat it dude, the tech had his head all the up his ***.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:18 AM
Leave the PVB alone. Cheaply plumbed, but probably secure enough.

pfft. At the very least, wrap the pvc with pipe wrap.

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 11:28 AM
pfft. At the very least, wrap the pvc with pipe wrap.

Here comes the stupid question, what type of pipe wrap are you referring to? I'll definitely do it, just need to know what you recommend. Thanks.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:31 AM
Here comes the stupid question, what type of pipe wrap are you referring to? I'll definitely do it, just need to know what you recommend. Thanks.

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/D-O-Smith-40062-Pipe-Wrap-Tape-2-x-20-mil-x-100-ft/59886/Cat/1023

Code in my area requires exposed PVC be wrapped to 40 mil thickness. PVC becomes mighty brittle after years of sun exposure.

AI Inc
07-30-2008, 11:33 AM
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/D-O-Smith-40062-Pipe-Wrap-Tape-2-x-20-mil-x-100-ft/59886/Cat/1023

Code in my area requires exposed PVC be wrapped to 40 mil thickness. PVC becomes mighty brittle after years of sun exposure.

Thats why we only use copper for anything above ground.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:35 AM
Thats why we only use copper for anything above ground.

or brass, or stainless. :) Nothing wrong with using PVC for some above ground work, but on that backflow :hammerhead:. Should be copper IMHO.

AI Inc
07-30-2008, 11:39 AM
I pulled one out a few week ago , DCVA in the basement , pvc outside with no ext shutoff. Pool company broke the main digging , did it in copper and installed a much needed ext shut off.

Wet_Boots
07-30-2008, 11:47 AM
One could simply paint the exposed PVC for UV protection. A tape wrap might obscure the bracing, which might need occasional tightening.

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 12:22 PM
I would seriously consider 6 inch pop ups, however, I have 56 heads in my irrigation system... so that might be a tad costly. ;)

We quit using 4" heads years ago as the mowing heights increased.

mikewhit1010
07-30-2008, 12:27 PM
Wow very nice house. Suprised no one has said that yet. Also your grass has come a long way since you built the house. Also I have noticed that there are a lot of sprinkler guys out there dont give a damn about repeat business. I had one come out for a more serious problem at one of my clients houses. take in mind it was a referal i gave to him. he charged her 189.00 an hour. for the first hour and 90 in parts. He was there for 20 minutes and replaced a $15 dollar part. I understand the hour but not the increase in parts. plus in his bill he told me he gave her a discount and that normally it would cost double that. I just laughed.

JimLewis
07-30-2008, 01:39 PM
I make it a point to meet with any contractor that comes to my home to perform work in case there's questions. However, the tech was suppose to be at my home on two prior occassions and didn't show for one reason or another. Then I get a call on a Thursday two weeks later after my constant phone calls and faxes (contractor has no email), saying the tech will be out to my house on Friday. I told the owner that I can't be there on Friday to meet the tech. He said that's not a problem, just leave a remote to the garage doors so he can get in and operate the control panel (Side note: The remote I left for the tech, I forgot to reprogram it for the doors and he wasn't able to get into the garage). I told him that I'd rather be home when someone is on my property working. He said, well I don't know when the next time I can get him back out there... he's busy. This is the kind of service after my first phone call to the company owner was back on 6/24/2008, he sends a tech out to my home on 7/25/2008, a MONTH LATER to look at the problem. Prior visits, I got stood up when I was home. Plus, all the problem sprinkler heads were marked with flags, all valve box locations were marked with flags just in case he wanted to manually opperate the zones and I left him a detailed explaination on which heads in which zones that I was having issues with. Seemed fullproof to me for someone not to screw it up. :hammerhead:

I hear ya. But that's why I said I would recommend just going with someone else. If they are that flaky, and left you hanging already twice I would have lost faith in that company right there and not even considered making a third appointment.

I agree, you made it pretty fool proof. But my point still remains - if you had been there at the same time he was there, you have to agree that probably most of this wouldn't have happened. He would have been able to get into the garage. You would have been able to show him every head that you wanted fixed in person, etc.

Again, not blaming you. I wouldn't have waited a third time either. You don't need to take it personally. I am just pointing out that this is why it's always best to have a face to face meeting when tech's. arrive. I am also making this point so that other irrigation companies reading would get the point to - that it's always best to have the customer at home when you arrive - just to avoid this kind of stuff.

And it's also always best to not no-show your customers and show up approximately when you say you'll be there.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 02:03 PM
One could simply paint the exposed PVC for UV protection. A tape wrap might obscure the bracing, which might need occasional tightening.

Did I hear something?
.
.
.
.

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 02:45 PM
I hear ya. But that's why I said I would recommend just going with someone else. If they are that flaky, and left you hanging already twice I would have lost faith in that company right there and not even considered making a third appointment.

I agree, you made it pretty fool proof. But my point still remains - if you had been there at the same time he was there, you have to agree that probably most of this wouldn't have happened. He would have been able to get into the garage. You would have been able to show him every head that you wanted fixed in person, etc.

Again, not blaming you. I wouldn't have waited a third time either. You don't need to take it personally. I am just pointing out that this is why it's always best to have a face to face meeting when tech's. arrive. I am also making this point so that other irrigation companies reading would get the point to - that it's always best to have the customer at home when you arrive - just to avoid this kind of stuff.

And it's also always best to not no-show your customers and show up approximately when you say you'll be there.

I agree 100%... and no worries, I didn't take it personally, :drinkup: I just wanted you to be aware that I'm usually always present when a contractor is at my home. He's pretty much done and he will surely not get a good reference from me.

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 03:03 PM
Wow very nice house. Suprised no one has said that yet. Also your grass has come a long way since you built the house. Also I have noticed that there are a lot of sprinkler guys out there dont give a damn about repeat business. I had one come out for a more serious problem at one of my clients houses. take in mind it was a referal i gave to him. he charged her 189.00 an hour. for the first hour and 90 in parts. He was there for 20 minutes and replaced a $15 dollar part. I understand the hour but not the increase in parts. plus in his bill he told me he gave her a discount and that normally it would cost double that. I just laughed.

Thank you for the compliment on the house and yard. There are many Irrigation companies out in my area... hard to choose. One of the bigger ones is TLC Irrigation and Outdoor Lighting. However, I wasn't crazy about how they did their underground piping and several people I know in other developments had problems with cracks and leaks in the flex pipe. Another company that I considered was BWI Irrigation (Blue Water Irrigation). He was pretty good to talk to, but he didn't think that my well pump could handle 4 heads a zone and wanted to install many more zones with fewer heads for more money in addition to a new well pump. I thought that was a bit crazy. My well pump is fine and I've never had a pressure problem.

Any recommendations on 6" pop ups? Do I stick with Weathermatic or try something different? I do like the adjustability of the heads from 45-360 degrees.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 03:05 PM
what type of soil do you have and how good is your water quality?

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 03:07 PM
Any recommendations on 6" pop ups? Do I stick with Weathermatic or try something different? I do like the adjustability of the heads from 45-360 degrees.

What is the spacing between heads?

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 03:21 PM
what type of soil do you have and how good is your water quality?

Soil type is sandy (no clay) and water quality is good, however, I do have a treatment system.

Depending on the zone, the heads are spaced out about 20-25 feet appart.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 03:24 PM
RB1806 SAM-PRS w/ MP3000 Rotators or Hunter I-20 w/ SS riser (better for sandy soils) would be my choices.

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 03:31 PM
Are the zones a combination of fulls, 180s & 90s (on the same zone)?

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 03:52 PM
I like the sound of the RB 3500 Series with the Rain Curtain Nozzle Technology.

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 03:55 PM
Are the zones a combination of fulls, 180s & 90s (on the same zone)?

Most zones I have set to full except for the outside zones where they are set to 180. I have one or two zones that have one head set at 90 degrees because it is near the driveway, street and the property line.

DanaMac
07-30-2008, 04:06 PM
I like the sound of the RB 3500 Series with the Rain Curtain Nozzle Technology.

I've replaced too many 3500s due to them not rotating. Not very reliable IMHO.

Wet_Boots
07-30-2008, 04:08 PM
Rain Curtain sells to the less-informed public, and the trade merely raises an eyebrow.

csmlawn
07-30-2008, 04:19 PM
:wall;):wall

Well, I've never had an issue with my WM not rotating, so I'm good there. I may just keep what I have for the time being and change out the incorrect nozzles on the questionable heads to make sure the precipitation rate is the same from head to head.

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 05:31 PM
Sure, use the W*M until you have problems. The mowing height dictates a full 6" head.
The fact it's sand-based calls for a stainless riser. I'd spec a Rain-Bird 5000+6"/ss.
If there is a chance of low drainage after the valve shuts down, a "SAM" low-drain
check valve version would be added..which would be 5000+SAM-ss. Last thing you need
are " low angle rain-curtain" nozzles. "Matched precipitation" (MPR) nozzles should be
used when different radi are on the same zone, tho they kick pretty strong on the
front load, I'm happy with them.

hoskm01
07-30-2008, 10:27 PM
5k SS comes standard with SAM, great combo, add the PRS for equality.

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 11:32 PM
add the PRS for equality.

Not..........

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:32 PM
I'd spec a Rain-Bird 5000+6"/ss.

OMG, the world is coming to an end. ML didn't push the I-20 SS. :laugh:

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 11:36 PM
OMG, the world is coming to an end. ML didn't push the I-20 SS. :laugh:

Seemed like the throw was a little short for I-20s, I have my scruples, after all.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:48 PM
Not..........

Why .... I haven't seen any flow or pressure numbers thrown out there.

Also, kinda surprised you recommended the 5000, especially given your slamming of the "rain curtain" about a month or so ago (with pics).

Specs say MPR down to 25 feet. Did you check the pressures required to get 25 feet without cranking down on the radius screw? Smallest standard nozzle at 25 PSI throws 33 feet. Smallest standard nozzle at the pressure regulated 45 PSI throws 35 feet. The smallest low angle nozzle will actually throw 25 feet at 25 PSI, 29 feet at 45 PSI. Given the grass height, low angle nozzle might not be the best choice, even with a 6" pop.

So given the spacing (20-25 feet) is correct, we have a 10-15 foot difference on the standard nozzles, which is beyond the capacity of the radius adjustment screw to compensate for (max 25% adjustment according to specs).

So that means even if you were able to crank the adjustment screw down enough (max 25% adjustment according to specs), you would still fall short with the standard nozzle and you would most likely lose your MPR and increase your misting losses.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:50 PM
Seemed like the throw was a little short for I-20

Ditto, and the 5000's (see above). That is why my first suggestion was rotators, and they should be far cheaper to replace as well.

Mike Leary
07-31-2008, 12:00 AM
Ditto, and the 5000's (see above). That is why my first suggestion was rotators, and they should be far cheaper to replace as well.

Let's see. Rotators on s.s. risers. hmm.

Kiril
07-31-2008, 12:10 AM
Let's see. Rotators on s.s. risers. hmm.

Well, yea, you lose the SS riser, but with a 1806 SAM/PRS + MP3000, you may not even need to use the radius adjustment.
My vote goes to cheaper install, better DU and AE.

Who suggested low angle nozzles? Not me, MPR maybe.

Yes, the MPR 25 might just be the ticket, however no numbers on max arc height, which means it might just be a tweaked low angle nozzle.

Mike Leary
07-31-2008, 12:12 AM
Well, yea, you lose the SS riser, but with a 1806 SAM/PRS + MP3000, you may not even need to use the radius adjustment.
My vote goes to cheaper install, better DU.

::::Kiril backs into the sunset:::

Kiril
07-31-2008, 12:31 AM
::::Kiril backs into the sunset:::

::Then steps forward to remind the guy just dumped a bunch of money on a new irrigation system and now is looking at replacing a bunch of almost brand new heads ::

If the plastic WM risers are good enough, then the 1800's should also be good enough.

Mike Leary
07-31-2008, 12:38 AM
::::Kiril backs into the sunset:::

Again......

Kiril
07-31-2008, 12:48 AM
Again......

Isn't it past your bed time? :sleeping:

csmlawn
07-31-2008, 09:23 AM
You all are cracking me up. :laugh:

AI Inc
07-31-2008, 12:24 PM
Seemed like the throw was a little short for I-20s, I have my scruples, after all.

I remember on a trip out to San Diego about 5 yrs ago, a hunter engineer mentioning low angle nozzles on an I20 as an upsell to the pgm.

hoskm01
07-31-2008, 07:08 PM
Not..........
Not an equality kind of guy?

Mike Leary
07-31-2008, 07:16 PM
Not an equality kind of guy?

Ya, I thought so, wait, is this another thread from Pluto?

hoskm01
07-31-2008, 07:35 PM
No way a MPR on an 1806PRS is cheaper than a 5KPSS

bicmudpuppy
07-31-2008, 09:43 PM
I remember on a trip out to San Diego about 5 yrs ago, a hunter engineer mentioning low angle nozzles on an I20 as an upsell to the pgm.

Hunter makes a "short range" nozzle set (black tree) for the I-20. Except for the cost factor, this is absolutely the most reliable short range rotor option available. I haven't had the pleasure of actually getting to use MP's, BUT what I have seen/heard/read, the shorter the distance, the less appealing they become.

hoskm01
07-31-2008, 09:50 PM
the shorter the distance, the less appealing they become.



I agree, but only for wow factor. They do the job, they just dont look like they do crap when small.

Kiril
08-01-2008, 12:39 AM
No way a MPR on an 1806PRS is cheaper than a 5KPSS

You sure about that?

From Ewing:

5006 PLUS-PC-SS-SAM-NP ADJ RTR: $23.427 @cost

1806-PRS-SAM RAINBIRD PR W/CHK : $11.115 @cost
MP3000 (all arcs): $5.35 @cost
Total for RB + MP3000 = $16.465 @cost

Savings per sprinkler = $6.962
Total savings to redo sprinklers @ 56 heads replaced: $389.872

Dump the pressure regulation and you save an additional $151.592

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 09:41 AM
I'm getting sick of the long run times needed for MPs.

DanaMac
08-01-2008, 09:52 AM
I'm getting sick of the long run times needed for MPs.

I can completely interfere with some watering restrictions when they only have a total amount of available run time. When CS Utilities was on restrictions, it was a 3 hour time limit total. Kind of tough with the 12+ zone systems, and even more if they were all MPs.

Kiril
08-01-2008, 09:53 AM
I'm getting sick of the long run times needed for MPs.

:confused: Then you must also be sick of long run times for your standard rotor as well. IMHO, lower PR in tight soils makes scheduling much easier.

Kiril
08-01-2008, 09:55 AM
I can completely interfere with some watering restrictions when they only have a total amount of available run time. When CS Utilities was on restrictions, it was a 3 hour time limit total. Kind of tough with the 12+ zone systems, and even more if they were all MPs.

Water windows does make scheduling rotors difficult. Seems idiotic to have a policy designed to save water, but you can't effective use water saving sprinklers. :hammerhead:

Rotor_Tool
08-01-2008, 12:19 PM
He said he has sandy soil, why would you ever choose MP Rotator for such a large area of turf with sandy soil. What a way to show ring around the sprinkler! CSMLAWN - Follow wise old Mr. Leary's advice...use the RB 5006SSPL, you mentioned rain curtain nozzles - these are as good as they get.

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 05:08 PM
use the RB 5006SSPL, you mentioned rain curtain nozzles - these are as good as they get.

I know I complained about the heavy reinforced front edge early in the
season, but the MPR nozzles are giving very equal moisture readings
throughout the throw. Burning some water, though: 18 gpm @ 60 psi.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-01-2008, 06:02 PM
the 3500 is a great little rotAr

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 06:15 PM
the 3500 is a great little rotAr

I'll stick with the classics.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-01-2008, 06:19 PM
nice mike!!!

looks good

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 06:33 PM
nice mike!!!looks good

Thanks, when are you bailing on your go no where job and learning golf
from the bic? We'll see you in the fall if you choose.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-01-2008, 06:50 PM
I would love more than anything to be apart of going down and learning the golf course WATER.

That would be a blast...

My 60 K health and dental as a starter job is doing well...I recently passed the driving test (drug) and physical test. Got my health and dental paperwork today after 2 months @ the helm..

so far for this company I have:


driven truck and trailer (with 4-10)
run both a 255 and 4-10
trouble shot anything they can throw @ me from tracing, wm solenoids, toro vision clock fuse's, R/S issues..Just basic tech and install work...
Sold a 1200$ ad on this week with proposal signed in 5 minutes..

My return rate is over 130 dollars an hour with these guys, on a slow day..

Right now I don't think I can find anything better @ this point in my life.

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 08:09 PM
I would love more than anything to be apart of going down and learning the golf course WATER.

That would be a blast...

My 60 K health and dental as a starter job is doing well...I recently passed the driving test (drug) and physical test. Got my health and dental paperwork today after 2 months @ the helm..

so far for this company I have:


driven truck and trailer (with 4-10)
run both a 255 and 4-10
trouble shot anything they can throw @ me from tracing, wm solenoids, toro vision clock fuse's, R/S issues..Just basic tech and install work...
Sold a 1200$ ad on this week with proposal signed in 5 minutes..

My return rate is over 130 dollars an hour with these guys, on a slow day..

Right now I don't think I can find anything better @ this point in my life.

Except to learn the trade.

Waterit
08-01-2008, 08:12 PM
Except to learn the trade.

Why should he do that, he can always get educated, well-thought-out and on-the-money answers right here:laugh:

Mike Leary
08-01-2008, 08:18 PM
Why should he do that, he can always get educated, well-thought-out and on-the-money answers right here:laugh:

Like my favorite head.

bicmudpuppy
08-01-2008, 11:13 PM
Like my favorite head.

BUT, does it still WORK? Where is the shot of it twirling water??

Kiril
08-01-2008, 11:56 PM
why would you ever choose MP Rotator for such a large area of turf with sandy soil.

I wouldn't if designing from ground up. Spacing between sprinklers is 20-25 feet, right in the range of MP Rotators. Beyond that I presented two options, the other being I-20 with SS riser.
Rotators are a viable option if money is tight.

What a way to show ring around the sprinkler!

Really. Do I need to post the DU graphs of the MP Rotators?

use the RB 5006SSPL, you mentioned rain curtain nozzles - these are as good as they get.

Spoken like a true RB rep.

hoskm01
08-02-2008, 09:47 AM
You sure about that?

From Ewing:

5006 PLUS-PC-SS-SAM-NP ADJ RTR: $23.427 @cost

1806-PRS-SAM RAINBIRD PR W/CHK : $11.115 @cost
MP3000 (all arcs): $5.35 @cost
Total for RB + MP3000 = $16.465 @cost

Savings per sprinkler = $6.962
Total savings to redo sprinklers @ 56 heads replaced: $389.872

Dump the pressure regulation and you save an additional $151.592
WOW. I pay 10.47 for the 5K, loaded. Bought another case just the other day.

csmlawn
08-04-2008, 04:35 PM
Quick question for all you pros out there....

My well puts out around 25 gallons a minute, each zone in my irrigation system has 4 heads and my pressure is pretty good around 50-60 psi. My question, on the link below chart concerning nozzles, what is the triangle and square symbol?

http://www.sprinkler.com/files/Weathermatic%20Blue%20Nozzle%20Preformance%20Chart.pdf

I take it nozzle 4 would be the best bet... am I correct in this assumption?

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 04:59 PM
More like #6 with 4 heads and 25 gpm, but you might have the option for higher pressures and lower flows on your well, so maybe the smaller nozzle would perform better.

Mike Leary
08-04-2008, 05:08 PM
[QUOTE=csmlawn;2450695]My well puts out around 25 gallons/minute/QUOTE]

Before you get too carried away, find out what the recharge of the well is,
some are slow to fill & this could lead to problems. "Square" & "triangular"
spacing is mostly a hold-over from when we had more water than sense.
Most of us use square spacing to avoid water in the hardscape.

lowvolumejeff
08-04-2008, 05:13 PM
From SMSLAWN "My question, on the link below chart concerning nozzles, what is the triangle and square symbol?

http://www.sprinkler.com/files/Weathermatic%20Blue%20Nozzle%20Preformance%20Chart.pdf"


The triangle and square columns refer to the way the heads are arranged. Triangle = triangular spacing, and square = square spacing. Are your heads arranged in square, or triangular patterns. The numbers in the columns refer to the precipitation rates for the different patterns of head spacing.

Jeff

csmlawn
08-05-2008, 12:28 PM
Heads are arranged in a square pattern. Thanks for the explaination. I wasn't exactly sure what that was.

jluksic
08-05-2008, 03:21 PM
third picture from bottom

Where did you get the clamp (below PVB) that holds the copper securely to the house?

I need one of those...


Here's some pictures of the heads in action. Also, ignore the grass height, it gets cut tomorrow (we've had a lot of rain lately).

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/60/760/3/72/15/2658372150065895033MBiGzt_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2658372150065895033MBiGzt)
(wrong nozzle... low angle)
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/69/569/0/29/48/2864029480065895033EZOnPs_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2864029480065895033EZOnPs)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/50/750/4/34/40/2589434400065895033lqUehl_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2589434400065895033lqUehl)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/65/765/4/93/46/2523493460065895033zXDrJN_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2523493460065895033zXDrJN)
(this picture, the heads actually spray pretty good.)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/71/71/7/31/27/2292731270065895033ZeTDQv_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2292731270065895033ZeTDQv)
(wrong nozzles in this zone... low angle barely clears grass)
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/65/765/7/99/7/2069799070065895033zJAxGg_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2069799070065895033zJAxGg)

http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/50/750/6/61/44/2335661440065895033qmTxFW_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2335661440065895033qmTxFW)
(head just been replaced)
http://thumb13.webshots.net/t/65/765/8/72/83/2719872830065895033SguTLa_th.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2719872830065895033SguTLa)

Without A Drought
08-05-2008, 03:33 PM
any hardware store should have them

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 05:51 PM
third picture from bottom

Where did you get the clamp (below PVB) that holds the copper securely to the house?

I need one of those...That is actually three separate pieces
Split ring hanger
Hanger plate
length of 3/8-inch threaded rod
A plumbing supply should have them, if the hardware store doesn't.

csmlawn
08-05-2008, 07:23 PM
That is actually three separate pieces
Split ring hanger
Hanger plate
length of 3/8-inch threaded rod
A plumbing supply should have them, if the hardware store doesn't.

And it's covered in rust... :realmad:

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 07:34 PM
And it's covered in rust... :realmad:Yep. Even the copper-coated ones end up that way. But they are quite strong while they last.

Mike Leary
08-05-2008, 07:40 PM
Always wondered why backflow preventers do not have stainless handles.

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 07:45 PM
Better yet, why don't they have resilient-wedge gate valves?

Waterit
08-05-2008, 08:34 PM
third picture from bottom

Where did you get the clamp (below PVB) that holds the copper securely to the house?

I need one of those...

Looks like a stand-off/pipe hanger used by electricians and fire-sprinkler guys.
You should be able to find them in galvanized. Another place to look is a marine supply.

AI Inc
08-06-2008, 06:33 AM
Always wondered why backflow preventers do not have stainless handles.

They seem to rust away faster now that they are made in China. On a side note anyone ever try appolo pvb,s. American made, I havnt looked into pricing yet.

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 07:33 AM
the Conbraco PVB is actually the older Watts design, so no worries on durability, if it still uses the brass bonnet.

csmlawn
08-06-2008, 09:16 AM
They seem to rust away faster now that they are made in China. On a side note anyone ever try appolo pvb,s. American made, I havnt looked into pricing yet.

Speaking of China, did you hear about the water problem they are experiencing because the government is re-routing all the water for fountains and decorative landscape in Beijing for the Olympics? Why the hell would we want to have the Olympics in such a poluted country with no human rights, animal rights or environmental programs? :hammerhead:

Tom Tom
08-06-2008, 09:20 AM
Speaking of China, did you hear about the water problem they are experiencing because the government is re-routing all the water for fountains and decorative landscape in Beijing for the Olympics? Why the hell would we want to have the Olympics in such a poluted country with no human rights, animal rights or environmental programs? :hammerhead:

Agree. Maybe to show the the world their problems?

How much are they contributing to global warming/cooling/and the rise in sprinkler material costs? :laugh:

I hear some athletes are wearing filter masks.

irrig8r
08-06-2008, 11:05 AM
Did a search on "beijing water shortage" and found this interesting article. (Transcript of a radio story.)

http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/programguide/stories/200808/s2321313.htm

jluksic
08-06-2008, 12:41 PM
thanks for the answers

csmlawn
08-19-2008, 01:01 PM
Hated to do it since I'm such a nice guy, but I filed a BBB complaint against my irrigaiton contractor:

Filed against :
Turf Plus
PO Box 634
Arnold MD 21012-4634

Complaint Description:
I contacted and spoke with Bud Phillips (owner) at Turf Plus on 6/24/08 by phone and followed up with fax for warranty service on my irrigation system. No service provided. I again faxed Mr. Phillips on 7/8/08 to schedule a service visit. No reply. I again called on 7/11/08 and spoke with Mr. Phillips. He said David Porter (tech) will be out on 7/12/08. Mr. Porter did not come out. Called Mr. Porter of Turf Plus on 7/17/08. Mr. Porter told me he would be out on 7/19/08. He didn't show up. Called and sent another fax to Mr. Phillips on 7/21/08 still waiting on service visit. Mr. Phillips said Mr. Porter will be out on 7/25/08. Mr. Porter was out, however, incomplete service was provided. I left Mr. Porter a detailed diagram of the problem rotor heads, what zones they were associated with and marked all valve box locations in case Mr. Porter would like to manually open, close and bleed individual zones. I also left a remote to the garage so Mr. Porter could access the control panel in the garage. When I arrived home from work Friday evening, I noticed one rotor head was replaced and one head was raised, that's it. I called Mr. Porter on 7/28/08 to ask about the other heads I'm having problems with that were identified on the diagram, but was unable to reach him. I get a call a few minutes later from Mr. Phillips asking me not to call his techs and that the tech couldn't get into the garage to activate the zones via the control panel. I told Mr. Phillips that I marked all the value locations with colored flags so Mr. Porter (if need be) could activate the zones manually. Mr. Phillips asked, how would he know what valve went to what zone? I replied, because the zones are marked on the diagram. Common sense, turn valve on, look and see what zone in the yard comes on, if a zone comes on that doesn't have rotor heads marked by a flag, turn it off and go to the next valve... it's that easy. And the fact that I marked all problem rotor heads with the flags with a description of the problem. Mr. Phillips replied, he'll just have to come back out, but make sure you leave a garage door opener that works so he can turn on the zones at the controller... that would be easiest. On 8/4/08, I called and sent Mr. Phillips another diagram after Mr. Porter's visit on 7/25/08 requesting him to come back out and finish the repairs. On 8/5/08, I called and left Mr. Phillips a message to call me back to schedule a time for Mr. Porter to come back out. I sent another fax requesting service visit on 8/8/08. I called Mr. Phillips on 8/8/08 and received a return call from Mr. Phillips on 8/11/08 indicating that Mr. Porter will be out that week to finish the repairs. Mr. Porter did not come out. On 8/18/08, I called Mr. Phillips and left a messgage to call me back to get out to my house and fix the irrigation system. This shouldn't take two months for a warranty service visit.

Your Desired Resolution:
Replace all identified leaking rotor heads with new T3 rotor heads. Replace rotor head nozzles (identified) with correct nozzles that match angle trajectory and precipitation rate of the other rotor heads in irrigation system and perform a complete inspection of the irrigation system with home owner present to identify any other deficiencies and/or abnormalities in the system and have corrected under warranty per the 1/24/06 contract and 2/08/06 addendum to contract. :usflag:

WalkGood
08-19-2008, 03:51 PM
Will be interesting to see how this works out in the end.

Mike Leary
08-19-2008, 05:16 PM
Will be interesting to see how this works out in the end.

It would be more interesting if the contractor would join the forum and
give us HIS side of the story. I feel for the guy, but, usually in
these situations, there's something in the background. :cry::dizzy:

csmlawn
08-20-2008, 10:02 AM
It would be more interesting if the contractor would join the forum and
give us HIS side of the story. I feel for the guy, but, usually in
these situations, there's something in the background. :cry::dizzy:

I'd love for him to join as well to give his side. All I'm looking for is a good operating system and good customer service. What do you suppose could be in the background?

Previous issues to the system have been:

Contacted installer on 10/25/06:
1. Heads installed crooked in zones 1, 3, 4, and 7
2. Heads don't go down completely after zone shuts off (low head drainage) on zones 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Heads are T3 rotors that have built in check valves per the manufacture.
3. Heads leak in zones 1, 3, 4, 5, 8 and 12 leaving small ponds in yard around heads. Leaks are coming from collar, wiper seal, and underground on various heads.

Was told they would come out spring time to address problems as they were in the process of winterizing systems.

I called at spring start up to inform installer that the PVC pipe connected to the backflow valve has cracked and spraying water on the side of the house. Tech came out and repaired the pipe.

Called several times during the year including sending faxes including diagrams identifying the problem heads/zones to the installer on 7/17/07, 7/19/07 and 7/27/07 to address previous year's issues. August 2007, the operations manager came out and met with me to look at the heads... his words, "Yep, there's something definitely wrong with these things to leak like that." He proceeded to work on the heads while I went off to work.

This year, same issues with most of the problem heads/zones that they didn't change out, address or problem came back. I've been asked by the installer, did you bleed the valve... sounds like there's debrit/dirt in the valve. So, I read up on how to bleed out irrigation valves and the inner workings of the rotor heads. One thing I'd like to see is what the Ready Check Valve looks like in these T3 rotors to see if mine even has them given the amount of low head drainage I have. I have yet to come across anything that looks like a check valve in any of the heads.

I have to agree with mostly everyone here, 6" pop ups are the way to go with tall fescue. The only time the 4" pop ups don't hit the grass is when its cut, but in between cuts while the grass is growing the stream hits the grass and the only green grass is the 3 foot area around the head. Another thing I've noticed, what's up with the pencil stream type of spray from the heads. Most of the manufactures say to not turn down the defuser screw into the path of the stream.

irrig8r
08-20-2008, 11:27 AM
It would be more interesting if the contractor would join the forum and
give us HIS side of the story. I feel for the guy, but, usually in
these situations, there's something in the background. :cry::dizzy:

I agree with Mike. I'd like to hear the other side. Sounds like maybe he was overbooked and even short of qualified personnel... not excusable of course, but it's a juggling act sometimes....

It also sounds like maybe he could use some tips in how not to make promises to customers that he knows he can't keep. It's always bad for a business' reputation.

But it would be interesting to hear his side.

Personal lives and health issues can be the biggest distractions I know of to running a business smoothly. Divorce, illness, death in the family, etc.

I'm not implying anything specific about this contractor, but I've seen plenty of businesses fail when owners or partners have drug or drinking problems too.

BTW, I've never gotten involved with the BBB here. Just seemed like a racket.

Consumers in my state can file complaints with the Contractors State License Board and every quarter their newsletter lists contractors that have had licenses revoked or suspended, or had disciplinary actions taken against them.

Are contractors in your state required to have a license or pass any exams?

Edit:
Took me about 30 seconds to find these pages... Always better to look up contractors before your hire them:

http://www.dllr.state.md.us/license/law/homeimlaw.htm

https://www.dllr.state.md.us/cgi-bin/ElectronicLicensing/OP_search/PQ_search.cgi?calling_app=HIC::HIC_qselect

EagleLandscape
08-20-2008, 11:35 AM
For all the time you have spent on this problem, I would have paid another contractor a few hundred bucks to come out and fix your problems.

Case solved.

irrig8r
08-20-2008, 11:45 AM
BTW, I had a hard time figuring out whether MD requires a license for irrigation contractors or not.... "landscaping" is covered under Home Improvement, but there doesn't seem to be any mention there regarding irrigation...

csmlawn
08-20-2008, 11:50 AM
For all the time you have spent on this problem, I would have paid another contractor a few hundred bucks to come out and fix your problems.

Case solved.

Yeah, but where's the fun in that? J/K ;)

irrig8r and Mike, that's fine, but he sould keep communications open and not leave a customer hanging. I would hate to think this is how he treats all his customers that he installed irrigation systems for over the years. Pretty sad if you ask me. I did call MDIrrigation here on this site and left him a message. He's not too far from where I live.

csmlawn
08-20-2008, 11:57 AM
BTW, I had a hard time figuring out whether MD requires a license for irrigation contractors or not.... "landscaping" is covered under Home Improvement, but there doesn't seem to be any mention there regarding irrigation...

I came across this:
DAWN R BLANCHE
AMERICAN IMPRESSIONS aka Turf Plus+ Lawn & Sprinkler Service
MHIC #01 46858
P.O. BOX 634 ARNOLD MD 21012
Expiration Date: 2009-01-29
Type: CONTRACTOR/SALESMAN
46858
N/A

Wet_Boots
08-20-2008, 12:03 PM
How long was/is the installation guarantee?

DanaMac
08-20-2008, 12:07 PM
Yeah, but where's the fun in that? J/K ;)

irrig8r and Mike, that's fine, but he sould keep communications open and not leave a customer hanging. I would hate to think this is how he treats all his customers that he installed irrigation systems for over the years. Pretty sad if you ask me. I did call MDIrrigation here on this site and left him a message. He's not too far from where I live.

Unfortunately, this happens sometimes. Companies do over commit, some guys aren't good at handling customer relations, and the easiest way for them to handle it is to just ignore it. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens. Not just our biz, but many others.

csmlawn
08-20-2008, 12:17 PM
How long was/is the installation guarantee?

Three Years.

Additional information:

Maryland Department of Agriculture (MDA) License number is: 1335 (Chemical Pesticide I'm assuming)

irrig8r
08-20-2008, 01:45 PM
Well, now that you've given the guy so much exposure, some of use would still like to hear his side....

Mike Leary
08-20-2008, 02:10 PM
And turning him into the BBB is a joke, sorry.

DanaMac
08-20-2008, 06:26 PM
And turning him into the BBB is a joke, sorry.

BBB is a complete joke. I'm not going to pay to join to have to defend myself to some joker customer.

irrig8r
08-20-2008, 08:08 PM
Well, now that you've given the guy so much exposure, some of use would still like to hear his side....

correction ... some of *us*...

And as I stated before, BBB is a racket as far as I'm concerned... but there does appear to be a formal complaint process through the licensing commission or board or whatever they called it....

csmlawn
08-20-2008, 08:25 PM
I know BBB is a joke, but they have to work too (justify their existance). I like it that someone else is calling him now besides me. I could always contact my professional counterparts at the Attorney General's Office or the Division of Occupational and Professional Licensing. Anyway, I've spoken with MDIrrigation here on this site and damn, does he know everyone and anyone who has done anything in reference to irrigation here in Anne Arundel county for the last 20+ years. :dizzy:

psatch
08-21-2008, 11:25 PM
Same person, same company, same problems. I moved into my house in March 2007 and the sprinkler system was installed by Turf Plus. I continued the annual maintenance contract the previous owner had on the system.

Problem #1 - Bud Phillips took payment for the warranty twice under two different names Turf Plus and American Impressions, and he will not refund the second payment. Are you kidding me!! I think this is a criminal offense and up until now I have been nice about it; but then...

It turns out my system was leaking the whole time I was paying for a full warranty maintence contract. I had mistakenly assumed that the service personnel inspected the system so I did not expect the sprinkler system to be the problem. Then our city water authority came by this spring and told us our sprinkler system was leaking and flooding the neighbor's yard. I had to shut my whole system down and erect a barrier fence to keep kids and pets out of the quagmire. On numerous occassions I have called Mr. Phillips and no service. The one time he did have a service rep come to the house they said I caused the problem by erecting the fence. Of course, that's not the case. I actually may have pierced one of the lines when I installed the fence, but the original leak was never repaired. So I still can't use my system. I asked him for a refund and he flat out said NO!

On top of all of this he has been very rude and condescending on the phone. I really don't know much about sprinkler systems so I asked him to have his technician contact me with an approximate time so I could meet him at the house and go over any issues I have been having. That would help me be sure I know what to look for in case there a future problems. However, Mr. Phillips mocked me and said they did not need to meet me. I suspect he thought he could just be rude and I would cower away. Instead I am thinking of taking him to court - although it's probably more trouble than it's worth.

I really think he should be forced out of business for fraudulent billing schemes and failure to deliver contracted services. I suspect that I and the other person posting about similar problems are just the tip of the iceberg.

I would appreciate any advice on this forum. I have actually never run into anyone this bad.

Kiril
08-21-2008, 11:32 PM
Having dealt with (and screwed by) my share of shady contractors my advice to you is cut your losses and hire a real professional to fix the problem

Waterit
08-21-2008, 11:37 PM
Same person, same company, same problems. I moved into my house in March 2007 and the sprinkler system was installed by Turf Plus. I continued the annual maintenance contract the previous owner had on the system.

Problem #1 - Bud Phillips took payment for the warranty twice under two different names Turf Plus and American Impressions, and he will not refund the second payment. Are you kidding me!! I think this is a criminal offense and up until now I have been nice about it; but then...

It turns out my system was leaking the whole time I was paying for a full warranty maintence contract. I had mistakenly assumed that the service personnel inspected the system so I did not expect the sprinkler system to be the problem. Then our city water authority came by this spring and told us our sprinkler system was leaking and flooding the neighbor's yard. I had to shut my whole system down and erect a barrier fence to keep kids and pets out of the quagmire. On numerous occassions I have called Mr. Phillips and no service. The one time he did have a service rep come to the house they said I caused the problem by erecting the fence. Of course, that's not the case. I actually may have pierced one of the lines when I installed the fence, but the original leak was never repaired. So I still can't use my system. I asked him for a refund and he flat out said NO!

On top of all of this he has been very rude and condescending on the phone. I really don't know much about sprinkler systems so I asked him to have his technician contact me with an approximate time so I could meet him at the house and go over any issues I have been having. That would help me be sure I know what to look for in case there a future problems. However, Mr. Phillips mocked me and said they did not need to meet me. I suspect he thought he could just be rude and I would cower away. Instead I am thinking of taking him to court - although it's probably more trouble than it's worth.

I really think he should be forced out of business for fraudulent billing schemes and failure to deliver contracted services. I suspect that I and the other person posting about similar problems are just the tip of the iceberg.

I would appreciate any advice on this forum. I have actually never run into anyone this bad.

On the one hand, I am a contractor and have had my share of unsatified AND unsatisfiable customers, and those who wanted more than they were willing to pay for. I AM NOT SAYING THAT"S THE CASE IN YOUR INSTANCES! I am merely qualifying my post by saying, hey, I'm on the other side of the fence.

On the other hand, I am a contractor as committed to being professional as I am to making money. This Phillips sounds like a guy who needs a reality check.

So:
Call your local Building Inspection Dept., find out if what he does requires being licensed. If so, you can file a complaint with the Contractors Competency Board, which in my neck of the woods anyway is pretty effective at policing its licensed contractors.

Then tell all of your friends, neighbors, co-workers and anyone else who'll listen about it, and tell them to tell their friends, too.

Hope I don't lose my Irrigator membership over this post, but this guy's MO is just wrong.

csmlawn
08-22-2008, 03:27 PM
You all will get a kick out of this.

I went ahead and checked both the Maryland District and Circuit Court system to see if Turf Plus, Bud Phillips, Tim Skapik, Dawn Ryan-Blanche or anyone associated with Turf Plus and their aliases have ever had a law suit filed against them. Come to find out, Bud Phillips has an alias, which is Daniel K. Ryan. Also, Turf Plus has not always been Turf Plus and/or American Impressions. Other business names: DURO-TURF OF ALEXANDRIA INC, DURO-TURF OF CROFTON INC, EVERGREEN SPRINKLER AND TURF, INC, and LAWN-PRO, INC. Let's just say, they are no stranger to legal system. :hammerhead:

Go ahead and search the database for their names above, here's the link:
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquiry-index.jsp

csmlawn
08-22-2008, 04:45 PM
Same person, same company, same problems. I moved into my house in March 2007 and the sprinkler system was installed by Turf Plus. I continued the annual maintenance contract the previous owner had on the system.

Problem #1 - Bud Phillips took payment for the warranty twice under two different names Turf Plus and American Impressions, and he will not refund the second payment. Are you kidding me!! I think this is a criminal offense and up until now I have been nice about it; but then...

It turns out my system was leaking the whole time I was paying for a full warranty maintence contract. I had mistakenly assumed that the service personnel inspected the system so I did not expect the sprinkler system to be the problem. Then our city water authority came by this spring and told us our sprinkler system was leaking and flooding the neighbor's yard. I had to shut my whole system down and erect a barrier fence to keep kids and pets out of the quagmire. On numerous occassions I have called Mr. Phillips and no service. The one time he did have a service rep come to the house they said I caused the problem by erecting the fence. Of course, that's not the case. I actually may have pierced one of the lines when I installed the fence, but the original leak was never repaired. So I still can't use my system. I asked him for a refund and he flat out said NO!

On top of all of this he has been very rude and condescending on the phone. I really don't know much about sprinkler systems so I asked him to have his technician contact me with an approximate time so I could meet him at the house and go over any issues I have been having. That would help me be sure I know what to look for in case there a future problems. However, Mr. Phillips mocked me and said they did not need to meet me. I suspect he thought he could just be rude and I would cower away. Instead I am thinking of taking him to court - although it's probably more trouble than it's worth.

I really think he should be forced out of business for fraudulent billing schemes and failure to deliver contracted services. I suspect that I and the other person posting about similar problems are just the tip of the iceberg.

I would appreciate any advice on this forum. I have actually never run into anyone this bad.

Let's sue him/them together... everyone else has. :laugh:

Wet_Boots
08-22-2008, 05:14 PM
I will encounter systems that lack proper backflow prevention, and will advise the homeowner that it's going to be cheaper to just bring it into compliance, than to legally chase down the installer, or persons that sold him the house.

csmlawn
08-22-2008, 06:00 PM
I will encounter systems that lack proper backflow prevention, and will advise the homeowner that it's going to be cheaper to just bring it into compliance, than to legally chase down the installer, or persons that sold him the house.

This is true, with one exception, you work in the legal system. :waving:

Mike Leary
08-22-2008, 06:02 PM
Let's sue him/them together... everyone else has. :laugh:
Wow! Had not thought of that scam. Make us look like everyone thinks
we are. :hammerhead

Tom Tom
08-22-2008, 06:08 PM
This is true, with one exception, you work in the legal system. :waving:

Sweet.

My wife was a paralegal for many years. Its amazing how a well crafted letter with a follow up phone call can solve problems.

Although, your guy needs a friendly visit to his home :laugh:

Wet_Boots
08-22-2008, 06:15 PM
This is true, with one exception, you work in the legal system. :waving:Sure, but you are dealing with an installer that has apparently been in disputes before, and might fold up his corporation without a second thought. And most homeowners still have to pay court fees, even if they can manage to pay zero attorney fees. So I stand by the advice that fixing is cheaper than filing.

Mike Leary
08-22-2008, 06:40 PM
So I stand by the advice that fixing is cheaper than filing.

True. I've looked at jacked systems and made them cry. The dorks are the
ones that say, " fix it and send the previous contractor a bill."

Tom Tom
08-22-2008, 06:42 PM
True. I've looked at jacked systems and made them cry. The dorks are the
ones that say, " fix it and send the previous contractor a bill."

Yeah, let me do that for you.

-OR-

Gee, Wally, I was born last night.

Waterit
08-22-2008, 07:47 PM
True. I've looked at jacked systems and made them cry. The dorks are the
ones that say, " fix it and send the previous contractor a bill."

I disagree - the dorks are the ones that take on a job under those conditions, the HO is actually pretty smart by getting a fix and putting the misery on (who else?) the irrigation contractor who bails them out.

WalkGood
08-22-2008, 09:19 PM
So, anyone STILL want to hear the installers "side"?

Mike Leary
08-22-2008, 09:30 PM
I disagree - the dorks are the ones that take on a job under those conditions, the HO is actually pretty smart by getting a fix and putting the misery on (who else?) the irrigation contractor who bails them out.

10-4 that...the last guy syndrome.

Wet_Boots
08-22-2008, 09:30 PM
So, anyone STILL want to hear the installers "side"?Why? This is America - send him to Gitmo.

Mike Leary
08-22-2008, 09:37 PM
Why? This is America - send him to Gitmo.

I wondered where all the W*M solenoids were sent to.

WalkGood
08-22-2008, 09:43 PM
The guy would never appear here if all that jazz about the different company names and putting his company name in someone else's name (his sis? mom? dead auntie?) is true. And then there'd be no use in hearing what he'd say.


But I figger *some* here would welcome a chance to put an e-Beatin on him!

Mike Leary
08-22-2008, 09:50 PM
But I figger *some* here would welcome a chance to put an e-Beatin on him!

Sign me up, Scotty.

irrig8r
08-22-2008, 09:52 PM
This is getting interesting...

There's some clown out there that sent me nasty, anonymous, threatening email the last time I commented on and dredged up search findings about a company that had questionable business practices and had changed names a few times... that time it was a distributor of cheap lighting products...

So I won't get involved in this fight, but pass the popcorn and beer... :drinkup:

Waterit
08-23-2008, 01:08 AM
I googled all of the guy's aliases and business names and got zip other than some telephone listings.

I didn't look under "slime".

Safe to say he won't appear before us, a jury of his peers, er, his supeeriors (I know how to spell it correctly, Mike, it's a pun).

After all, that other guy told us we were right and knew our stuff in that thread about the 6 zones and 3 valves. Facing mighty knowledge like that even I would tremble.

csmlawn
08-28-2008, 08:50 PM
Bud Phillips just called and wants to send out his techs to take care of the problem heads... let's see how this turns out. :)

Waterit
08-28-2008, 10:11 PM
Bud Phillips just called and wants to send out his techs to take care of the problem heads... let's see how this turns out. :)

Take pictures!

irrig8r
08-28-2008, 11:54 PM
And remember to have him tell them to check the blinker fluid.















Gotcha.

csmlawn
08-29-2008, 09:37 AM
And remember to have him tell them to check the blinker fluid.

Gotcha.

;)

I called him back last night and said we will set something up for next week. He said, just leave the garage door remote under a upside down bucket for the tech to get into the garage and... I said, stop right there! I'll be home when the techs come out and make sure that I'm satisfied with the repairs/replacements... period. Plus the fact, I don't want anyone in my house when I'm not home, garage included.

Mike Leary
08-29-2008, 10:38 AM
Five bucks says he does'nt show. :cry:

WalkGood
08-30-2008, 12:30 AM
Five bucks says he does'nt show. :cry:


$4.95

:rolleyes:

csmlawn
10-08-2008, 11:30 AM
They actually showed up, replaced the heads, nozzles and provided me with 25 feet of flex tub. I raised some of the heads in the yard to get over the 3-4 inches of grass... everything is good once again. I'll be calling MDirrigation for all my future irrigation needs.

Scott

Mike Leary
10-08-2008, 12:45 PM
They actually showed up, replaced the heads, nozzles and provided me with 25 feet of flex tub. I raised some of the heads in the yard to get over the 3-4 inches of grass... everything is good once again. I'll be calling MDirrigation for all my future irrigation needs.

Scott

Good deal, looks like I lost my bet.

Waterit
10-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Good deal, looks like I lost my bet.

Barely - this thread is over a month old.

Hey Scott: how many people can you fit in a 25' flex tub?:rolleyes:

csmlawn
10-09-2008, 09:39 AM
Barely - this thread is over a month old.

Hey Scott: how many people can you fit in a 25' flex tub?:rolleyes:

Nobody lost any bets. But they were decent when they came out.

Depends on how short and how skinny they are. :) All my lines underground are PVC. I needed the poly flex tubing to raise the heads. And the heads didn't sink or settle, they were just installed too deep.