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LawnPro19
07-28-2008, 04:51 PM
ok ive been in the lawn maint. biz for a while now but i ma just getting into the landscaping maint. as new customers are requesting.. i have recently got my license... as of now we are just pulling the weeds which i know has to be done regardless, but is there anything we can spray to help control the weeds that wont harm the plants???

JDUtah
07-28-2008, 05:07 PM
In beds?

Is the mulch thick enough? 3-6 inches. (careful around the plants though)

If the plants are established you can use a pre-emergant like preen on top of the mulch.

Also, if you really want to goto town, :hammerhead: try to avoid spray irrigation.. drip to each plant to minimize weed seed germination, but if you aren't familiar with it, get an irrigation contractor in there. :).

DeepGreenLawn
07-28-2008, 07:24 PM
yeah, a good layer of mulch is a natural weed preventative. Then hand pull what you have to, as long as you stay on it it should be a small task that only takes a minute or so.

mngrassguy
07-29-2008, 03:33 AM
Most spays that kill weeds will also kill good plants. I use Snapshot in the spring and Round-up (carefull) this time of year.

kirk1701
07-29-2008, 12:26 PM
Don't mean to hi-jack here but I too also have broadband weeds but coming up in the grass so I need to kill the weed without killing the grass :)

I was told by my lawn care provider to "paint the weeds with round-up" ;) well that just is not an option in my opinion.

I put out (sprayed) two different products yesterday in different area's to see which might work better one was Ortho's Weed B Gon and the other was Spectracide Weed Stop for lawns with crabgrass killer So I'm wondering if this will do the trick or anyone know of anything better,

JDUtah
07-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Kirk, from the sounds of it the weed be gone will work better then the weed stop. However, I would recommend using a more select herbicide (following integrated pest management). What weeds are they? Can you post some pics?

DeepGreenLawn
07-29-2008, 03:35 PM
are they grassy weeds? look like a kind of grass.. thinner longer blades, or are the broadleaf weeds? big leafs on them.

If they are grassy it will take a while pretty much no matter what you put down... if they are broadleaf for the most part any lawn care company will have something that will take them out in a day or two.

kirk1701
07-29-2008, 04:06 PM
are they grassy weeds? look like a kind of grass.. thinner longer blades, or are the broadleaf weeds? big leafs on them.

If they are grassy it will take a while pretty much no matter what you put down... if they are broadleaf for the most part any lawn care company will have something that will take them out in a day or two.

Yes DeepGreen they are broadleaf, and they come up with a center root as you can see in the photo below then they spread out from that center and not only take over but also grow out from that center.

I uploaded these to my webspace as to not loose quality by reducing the image to post them here.

http://home.insightbb.com/~ntldr/IMG_0457.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~ntldr/IMG_0458.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~ntldr/IMG_0459.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~ntldr/IMG_0460.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~ntldr/IMG_0461.jpg
http://home.insightbb.com/~ntldr/IMG_0462.jpg

DeepGreenLawn
07-29-2008, 05:59 PM
nope... that is grassy, maybe nutsedge? I am not sure, I have a lot of that here and it is just about impossible to kill. I have been trying to put renegade on it but to no avail it seems. Maybe someone else will have a better product... Image possibly? Either way, they are EXTREMELY expensive up front, if your a lawn care provider than you may want to get it, if your a home owner, then you might as well hire someone as you will pay A LOT more for the chem than you would for the treatment to kill it. Next year make sure to put down a good pre-m, if you want organic, CGM (Corn Gluten Meal) is about the only organic one there is but it is a little pricy and you have to put down a lot. I just try to grow a good healthy turf and pull weeds such as that while they are still small.

A weed hound works well too... you can get this at HD I believe, others have posted pics, I am too tired to try and mess with that... your going to have to do your own searching on that one... sorry.

Good luck,

Oh, I have one lawn I have been fighting with all summer, now anytime I am in the area I stop to pull weeds for a few minutes. Every little bit helps, this lawn was BAD to start with so I am not in any hurry, I will take care of it next spring with some good pre-m. Then the lawn should be in good enough shape by the end of the year.

DeepGreenLawn
07-29-2008, 06:00 PM
what kind of yard you got there? The pick with your hand on it, the blades almost looks like somekind of crabgrass, or as tree calls it, saint augustine grass (SAG). The purple in the last pics wants me to say the same thing... or those two different weeds?

kirk1701
07-29-2008, 06:49 PM
We'll DeepGreen, first have a look see here:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=235151
To get an idea what I've been going through with my lawn care provider :(

My lawn care provider told me....ME after I hired them to control the weed for me to paint the weeds with round-up!!! LMAO.

All this and oh did I mention the whole front lawn was just killed off and replanted last fall? Yep, by the same lawn care provider.

So yea I am a little hot under the collar at my lawn care provider to the point at which for $91 a treatment five times a year I'm concidering taking over doing it myself.

To answer your questions, the first about the color of the weed, yes they are all the same the one with the purple in it is a more mature one I have not pulled up as I'm waiting on ChemLawn to see if what they put down two weeks ago kills them.

Your second question on the type of grass, its fescue and was very pretty is the spring before I got hit with the summer patch.

LushGreenLawn
07-29-2008, 07:02 PM
Kirk,
I would simply get a new lawn care provider. BTW, most programs don't cover grassy weeds, so I wouldn't fault him for that specifically, but it sounds like he dosen't know what he's doing if he told you to wick them with round up.

JDUtah
07-29-2008, 08:07 PM
I would dump Chemlawn, that's usually a given...

But on topic, it's crabgrass buddy. Your other thread shows that Chemlawn treated your turf with Dimension (a crabgrass pre-emergent). However it only shows what % active ingredient, it doesn't say what rate they applied the Dimension. Without knowing that, eh, it's now obvious they didn't use enough. Also, it is helpful to split the Dimension treatments over two applications about a month apart... did they apply it with the treatment before/after that one?

What to do now...

I would keep mowing often! You don't want that stuff to go to seed! (IMO your disease issue should not be negatively effected) The crabgrass is relatively mature, so a post emergent would have limited results. (check my post on your other thread for my opinion on the roundup solution)

If it really bugs you this year, enjoy the evening, turn on your radie, grab a lemonade, sit on your lawn and pull it. (It's root system should let it come up pretty easy).

Early next spring when your soil temp hits 55 degrees three days in a row, apply a fertilizer with pre-emergent at the labeled rate. Depending on what fertilizer you use wait 4-6 weeks and hit it once more with the same stuff. That should keep any seeds form the last 5 years from germinating. Crabgrass dies off every year, so if you stop the seeds, you stop it. If you overseed, don't overseed till the fall. The Pre-M stops grass seeds too.

(Oh, I would overseed this fall though.. will help the turf recover/thicken from your disease issue. Try to overseed with a disease resistant variety.)

I've had customers get decent results with the Scotts 5 step fertilizng program.

Enjoy your experience as you naturally and safely remove the weed form your lawn. Mmmmm, lemonade is sounding good right now.

Oh, side note, the thinner turf caused by your disease problem could have given the crabgrass more of an oppurtunity to invade this year.

DeepGreenLawn
07-29-2008, 10:58 PM
the only other thing outside of the weeds is it looks like the lawn is a little short... may want to cut higher, it will help to keep weeds from coming up.

I figured the last pics were crabgrass... the "veins" as I call them, the ridges on the leaf going up and down tells me crabgrass also...

At that price you can get the chems for not much more... JD had it about right if you don't want to pull them.

mngrassguy
07-29-2008, 11:27 PM
I bet if you told your LCO to spray your CG or you'll find someone else who would, they would do it for free.

Whitey4
07-29-2008, 11:45 PM
This is smooth crabgrass, and I'm sure about that! Acclaim could be tried, but i've had mixed results at best with it. Next I will try some CAMA, an arsenic based herbicide. Not real different from MSMA. Since this is your own house... when you leave for work, spend 10 minutes hand pulling, and after dinner, go out again and hand pull for another 10 minutes.

That sort of steady attack WILL make a big difference, even within a week. Get that stuff out before it seeds. It may seem like too much work, but don't even think about how many weeds there are.... just stick to that 10 minutes twice a day. In a week, you will be amazed at how much it has improved.... honestly! Be sure to get the roots.

I renovated my front lawn this year, in an area that was previously HEAVILLY infested with this strain of CB. I just kept hand pulling... and now only do it every other day. That is definitly NOT nut sedge! I know this weed.... it is my nemisis. Hand pull it.... and get the roots.

kirk1701
07-30-2008, 12:24 AM
Kirk,
I would simply get a new lawn care provider. BTW, most programs don't cover grassy weeds, so I wouldn't fault him for that specifically, but it sounds like he dosen't know what he's doing if he told you to wick them with round up.
The whole reason for hiring them, having them kill off the whole fron and reseed $760 was to get rid of the weeds before they reseeded then was guarenteed to be weed free, or so I was told ;)

I would dump Chemlawn, that's usually a given...

But on topic, it's crabgrass buddy. Your other thread shows that Chemlawn treated your turf with Dimension (a crabgrass pre-emergent). However it only shows what % active ingredient, it doesn't say what rate they applied the Dimension. Without knowing that, eh, it's now obvious they didn't use enough. Also, it is helpful to split the Dimension treatments over two applications about a month apart... did they apply it with the treatment before/after that one?

What to do now...

I would keep mowing often! You don't want that stuff to go to seed! (IMO your disease issue should not be negatively effected) The crabgrass is relatively mature, so a post emergent would have limited results. (check my post on your other thread for my opinion on the roundup solution)

If it really bugs you this year, enjoy the evening, turn on your radie, grab a lemonade, sit on your lawn and pull it. (It's root system should let it come up pretty easy).

Early next spring when your soil temp hits 55 degrees three days in a row, apply a fertilizer with pre-emergent at the labeled rate. Depending on what fertilizer you use wait 4-6 weeks and hit it once more with the same stuff. That should keep any seeds form the last 5 years from germinating. Crabgrass dies off every year, so if you stop the seeds, you stop it. If you overseed, don't overseed till the fall. The Pre-M stops grass seeds too.

(Oh, I would overseed this fall though.. will help the turf recover/thicken from your disease issue. Try to overseed with a disease resistant variety.)

I've had customers get decent results with the Scotts 5 step fertilizng program.

Enjoy your experience as you naturally and safely remove the weed form your lawn. Mmmmm, lemonade is sounding good right now.

Oh, side note, the thinner turf caused by your disease problem could have given the crabgrass more of an oppurtunity to invade this year.

Yea, I'm hearing dump Chemlawn a lot plus the fact that from the other thread someone said the reason I got the summer patch was due to the spores being transported from customer to customer on the equipment makes me want to go back doing it myself.

JD would it help if I posted pic's of the rest of the invoices for the year showing what ChemLawn has done?

I'm seeing a preemergent (Barricade) for crabgrass that was sprayed March 31st then the one already posted you seen premergen (Dimenson) was put on May 27th. A grub control application was done recently along with the July 17th treatment where they spot treated what they are calling johnson grass, crabgrass, dallas grass and orchard grass. Oh and I love the last sentence in the comments section "These area's will need to be spot sprayed with round-up to kill them out" :nono:

They (TrueGreen) should be here this week and I have told them already to call ahead as I want to be here to talk to the guy when they come. Seems like they watch for me to leave then quickly make their rounds before I get back. Anyhow, I'll give them this week as I was told they would be back in two weeks to check the prograss and see if the weeds were killed. After this week, yea if I don't hear some good news or see some results the mower deck is being lowered right about the height of truegreens head :dizzy:

the only other thing outside of the weeds is it looks like the lawn is a little short... may want to cut higher, it will help to keep weeds from coming up.

I figured the last pics were crabgrass... the "veins" as I call them, the ridges on the leaf going up and down tells me crabgrass also...

At that price you can get the chems for not much more... JD had it about right if you don't want to pull them.
Nope, never cut short DeepGreen and the garden tractor height is 4 inches without lowering the deck so in the summer months I even decided to use the push mower because it can be raised higher then 4 inches.

I bet if you told your LCO to spray your CG or you'll find someone else who would, they would do it for free.

LCO? You mean TrueGreen and also what is CG

Will try to answer replies tomorrow night as I will be gone most of the day tomorrow, if not definatly Thursday.

kirk1701
07-30-2008, 12:32 AM
This is smooth crabgrass, and I'm sure about that! Acclaim could be tried, but i've had mixed results at best with it. Next I will try some CAMA, an arsenic based herbicide. Not real different from MSMA. Since this is your own house... when you leave for work, spend 10 minutes hand pulling, and after dinner, go out again and hand pull for another 10 minutes.

That sort of steady attack WILL make a big difference, even within a week. Get that stuff out before it seeds. It may seem like too much work, but don't even think about how many weeds there are.... just stick to that 10 minutes twice a day. In a week, you will be amazed at how much it has improved.... honestly! Be sure to get the roots.

I renovated my front lawn this year, in an area that was previously HEAVILLY infested with this strain of CB. I just kept hand pulling... and now only do it every other day. That is definitly NOT nut sedge! I know this weed.... it is my nemisis. Hand pull it.... and get the roots.

Not a bad idea Whitey, now here's a thought and probably a stupid question but here it goes. If I don't get the root, or when I pull it up would it be unwise to shoot a spot of round-up in the ground where I pulled up the weed or am I going to kill the roots of the surrounding grass.

Or, rather then round up what about the Spectracide Weed Stop For Lawns that I've used on a section of the front just to see if or any results could be noticed and I have seen some already and it has only been 24 hours? Sray this in the place where the weed was?

JDUtah
07-30-2008, 01:22 AM
Kirk,

Nah, you don't need to post the other records.

The Barricade and Dimenson should have been enough. But, then again it is TrueGreen. I've asked more than one TrueGreen applicator what they were spraying and they reply, "I have no idea, they just mix it back at the shop" :cry:

If it was a foliar application of the pre's (Truegreen does this often in spring out here) and it didn't get watered in for a couple days, it could have sat on the blade and degenerated in the sun. (Generally Pre-emergents are sun sensitive and should be watered into the soil shortly after application)

TrueGreen does guarantee their work, so hopefully they can get something strong enough on it before it is too mature.

Pulling is still the best bet. Whitey's idea to split it up and do 10 mins a time is great, you will be surprised!

I personally wouldn't hit the spot you pulled with any more chemical, just buy a pound or two of seed and sprinkle a pinch in each weeded spot.

My .02

Question: I have always thought pathogens spread more with mowing equipment then a spray hose form a pesticide application. Is anyone familiar with a hose transporting disease spores?

DeepGreenLawn
07-30-2008, 08:17 AM
if the hose gets wet it picks up all kinds of stuff... I am sure it is possible. Roundup works through the foilage, your more likely to do damage to the grass than you are the weed.

Whitey4
07-30-2008, 10:27 AM
I would not even attempt to paint lawn weeds with Roundup. Take one mistep, get it on your shoe, and you will get footprints of dead grass. In addition, I have let Roundup dry, and the next morning, the dew caused it to be picked up by my shoe... footprints. Now, if I need to kill a lawn for a renovation, I rope it off so no one can walk on it and spread the Roundup.

I have not had much luck with post emergent spraying this kind of CB... like I said, Acclaim didn't work very well. Some plants showed signs of browning and the stems got purple, but they didn't die. The more mature it is, the harder it is to kill, and for that matter, even to pull.

jeffinsgf
07-30-2008, 01:39 PM
Kirk,

As one homeowner to another, I have had very good luck with this product:

http://www.bayeradvanced.com/product/All-In-One-Weed-Killer-for-Lawns/concentrate.html

I'm trying to give up chemical treatments, but if I were going to use any, this is what it would be.

Frank Fescue
07-30-2008, 05:16 PM
Its nice that you're trying to educate yourself on your lawn. but when you hire a company i'd expect them to treat and retreat for crabgrass until you're satisfied. Your careless spraying of your lawn with chemicals isnt going to do you any good. You hired a company make them do the work. if they dont find someone who will.

RigglePLC
07-30-2008, 10:02 PM
Frank and Whitey are right.Get a good lawn company to apply Drive, Q4, or Acclaim. Ortho's Weed B Gone with crabgrass killer should also work. Bayer product is similar.
If...you decide to hand pull crabgrass. It leaves big holes--ugly. There is no need to get the root. Frost will kill any new sprouts. It is simplest to cut the plant off flush with the ground, using a Ginzu or serrated steak knife. Use a tree saw for the big ones, LOL!:)

Whitey4
07-30-2008, 11:16 PM
Frank and Whitey are right.Get a good lawn company to apply Drive, Q4, or Acclaim. Ortho's Weed B Gone with crabgrass killer should also work. Bayer product is similar.
If...you decide to hand pull crabgrass. It leaves big holes--ugly. There is no need to get the root. Frost will kill any new sprouts. It is simplest to cut the plant off flush with the ground, using a Ginzu or serrated steak knife. Use a tree saw for the big ones, LOL!:)

I'll have to try a hotter Acclam mix, since I have so freakin much of it anyways! Sure wish Drive wasn't prohibited here... sounds like an awsome control material. Since I have spent so much time hand pulling this type of CB from my new spring lawn seeding, I've seen the same plant come back unless I get at least most of the root system. I also have some CAMA that I want to try... that is the Ortho straight CB killer, with no broadleaf control. They use a different AI on the combo product, but can't recall what it is.

BTW, I have only tried the Acclaim in my backyard, which is a mess with two active female canines, but I use it as my laboratory.... got every weed in the northeast to spray back there! I used the Acclaim on some large established smooth CB.... some of it died, some wasn't even phased by the app. I'm reluctant to make a hotter mix and spray my new turf... so I'm still hand pulling in the front of the house.

I have to say, as a newbie to this side of the biz, having that mess of a backyard has been very useful. I can try different tank mixes, and find out what works best for virtually any weed problem I run into. SedgeHammer DESTROYED my yellow nut sedge back there. No turf stress at all... so I'm confident with that control now.

I may be lacking in experience, but that mess of a yard is like a crash course for getting some experience. I know now which weeds generally need a second app... or they bounce back. I know how hot I can make it without burning turf. Been a great classroom for this newbie solo act. Off topic, but maybe helpful to someone out there...

Frank Fescue
07-31-2008, 12:21 AM
I'll have to try a hotter Acclam mix, since I have so freakin much of it anyways! Sure wish Drive wasn't prohibited here... sounds like an awsome control material. Since I have spent so much time hand pulling this type of CB from my new spring lawn seeding, I've seen the same plant come back unless I get at least most of the root system. I also have some CAMA that I want to try... that is the Ortho straight CB killer, with no broadleaf control. They use a different AI on the combo product, but can't recall what it is.

BTW, I have only tried the Acclaim in my backyard, which is a mess with two active female canines, but I use it as my laboratory.... got every weed in the northeast to spray back there! I used the Acclaim on some large established smooth CB.... some of it died, some wasn't even phased by the app. I'm reluctant to make a hotter mix and spray my new turf... so I'm still hand pulling in the front of the house.

I have to say, as a newbie to this side of the biz, having that mess of a backyard has been very useful. I can try different tank mixes, and find out what works best for virtually any weed problem I run into. SedgeHammer DESTROYED my yellow nut sedge back there. No turf stress at all... so I'm confident with that control now.

I may be lacking in experience, but that mess of a yard is like a crash course for getting some experience. I know now which weeds generally need a second app... or they bounce back. I know how hot I can make it without burning turf. Been a great classroom for this newbie solo act. Off topic, but maybe helpful to someone out there...

Drive prohibited there? ouch, im loving the stuff more and more by the day. biggest issues this season were clover and now crabgrass, having something labeled for dual control is mint, even at $90 a bottle (or bag now)

Whitey4
07-31-2008, 12:32 AM
Drive prohibited there? ouch, im loving the stuff more and more by the day. biggest issues this season were clover and now crabgrass, having something labeled for dual control is mint, even at $90 a bottle (or bag now)

Freaking Long Island.... the hotbed for RUP and prohibited materials. Heck, in Suffolk county they can't apply a winterizing fert after Nov 1! Even Merit is RUP.... and many of the dylox products are gone now too....

Frank Fescue
07-31-2008, 12:38 AM
Freaking Long Island.... the hotbed for RUP and prohibited materials. Heck, in Suffolk county they can't apply a winterizing fert after Nov 1! Even Merit is RUP.... and many of the dylox products are gone now too....



most of the industry is going the way of the dodo. i got a comm. lic. for restriced use just because i assumed most of what i use today i wont be able to use tommorow. im not down with whats so bad about quincolorac. heard that prolonged over exposure can be cancer causing, so i dont use it on one of my condo complexes because a lady complains about it and i provide her with msds sheets and labels and she'd probably drop dead of a heart attack should she see that. she threatened to call the state dept because i didnt put "those yellow flags" up after i used sustaine on the property. she said she could smell it and it irritated her throat so she went to the doctor... ughhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

greendoctor
07-31-2008, 05:00 AM
I'll have to try a hotter Acclam mix, since I have so freakin much of it anyways! Sure wish Drive wasn't prohibited here... sounds like an awsome control material. Since I have spent so much time hand pulling this type of CB from my new spring lawn seeding, I've seen the same plant come back unless I get at least most of the root system. I also have some CAMA that I want to try... that is the Ortho straight CB killer, with no broadleaf control. They use a different AI on the combo product, but can't recall what it is.

BTW, I have only tried the Acclaim in my backyard, which is a mess with two active female canines, but I use it as my laboratory.... got every weed in the northeast to spray back there! I used the Acclaim on some large established smooth CB.... some of it died, some wasn't even phased by the app. I'm reluctant to make a hotter mix and spray my new turf... so I'm still hand pulling in the front of the house.

I have to say, as a newbie to this side of the biz, having that mess of a backyard has been very useful. I can try different tank mixes, and find out what works best for virtually any weed problem I run into. SedgeHammer DESTROYED my yellow nut sedge back there. No turf stress at all... so I'm confident with that control now.

I may be lacking in experience, but that mess of a yard is like a crash course for getting some experience. I know now which weeds generally need a second app... or they bounce back. I know how hot I can make it without burning turf. Been a great classroom for this newbie solo act. Off topic, but maybe helpful to someone out there...

The AI in the combo Ortho crab and broadleaf killer is Quinclorac(Drive). Don't expect to see that in Hawaii or NY. What I do not get is how Dismiss is prohibited in Hawaii, yet I see Spectracide Weed Stop on the shelves of HD here. Weed Stop is 2,4-D, MCPP, dicamba and Sulfentrazone(Dismiss). I cannot see how a homeower who often does not measure, much less callibrate, should be trusted with sulfentrazone, when I, a certified applicator who does measure and callibrate is banned from using this. Wonder how that one got through. BTW, it is not only acute or chronic toxicity to humans or animals that gets pesticides banned. If something is a potential or known groundwater pollutant, neither I nor Whitey will be allowed to use it. In Hawaii, atrazine, simazine, bromacil(Hyvar) and hexazinone(Velpar) are now State RUP. Why? years of misuse and abuse by the sugar and pineapple plantations has caused all of those chemicals to show up in my drinking water. Now, the DOA has taken the position to prohibit any new products that are mobile to groundwater. Drive and Dismiss fit their classification due to the large number of golf courses in the State.

kirk1701
07-31-2008, 12:27 PM
I put out the Spectracide Weed Stop on Monday of this week and also some Ortho weed b gone in another area. I'm already seeing results from the Spectracide Weed Stop but the weeds that got hit with Weed B Gone took to it like water.

JDUtah
07-31-2008, 12:34 PM
I put out the Spectracide Weed Stop on Monday of this week and also some Ortho weed b gone in another area. I'm already seeing results from the Spectracide Weed Stop but the weeds that got hit with Weed B Gone took to it like water.

Intersting, thanks for the update.

kirk1701
07-31-2008, 03:09 PM
Intersting, thanks for the update.

Plus, we got a good bit of rain here last night and the ground is soft so might try pulling some that I didn't spray :)

Might pull up eaiser with the ground being wet now.

jeffinsgf
07-31-2008, 03:14 PM
Weed-B-Gon is a 2-4,D herbicide, which means it will take several days to see results. The weeds will "grow themselves to death". I have found it best not to cut them for several days after treatment -- even though the lawn will look pretty shaggy while you wait.

Whitey4
07-31-2008, 10:22 PM
The AI in the combo Ortho crab and broadleaf killer is Quinclorac(Drive). Don't expect to see that in Hawaii or NY. What I do not get is how Dismiss is prohibited in Hawaii, yet I see Spectracide Weed Stop on the shelves of HD here. Weed Stop is 2,4-D, MCPP, dicamba and Sulfentrazone(Dismiss). I cannot see how a homeower who often does not measure, much less callibrate, should be trusted with sulfentrazone, when I, a certified applicator who does measure and callibrate is banned from using this. Wonder how that one got through. BTW, it is not only acute or chronic toxicity to humans or animals that gets pesticides banned. If something is a potential or known groundwater pollutant, neither I nor Whitey will be allowed to use it. In Hawaii, atrazine, simazine, bromacil(Hyvar) and hexazinone(Velpar) are now State RUP. Why? years of misuse and abuse by the sugar and pineapple plantations has caused all of those chemicals to show up in my drinking water. Now, the DOA has taken the position to prohibit any new products that are mobile to groundwater. Drive and Dismiss fit their classification due to the large number of golf courses in the State.

Ortho WAS selling a broadleaf (2,4-D three way) WITH a supposed crabgrass control here in NY. That means the AI wasn't Quinclorac, because it is prohibited.... but again, I can't recall what the CB AI was... might have been arsenic based... I know the straight Ortho CB killer here is CAMA, but they seem to be pulling it off the retail shelves now, although it isn't RUP.

greendoctor
08-01-2008, 04:52 AM
Bayer and PBI Gordon have the MSMA + Three Way concentrates. I wonder if the quinclorac got past the NY pesticides division for a little while. I know the sulfentrazone got past the DOA here. I suspect arsenic is going to get cleared from the shelves in anticipation of the ban. I am screwed when that happens. There is nothing for grassy weeds in bermuda other than Sencor or simazine. Those are even more hazardous to ground water than MSMA. No one in Hawaii carries Acclaim, which can be used on zoysia. As a one man show, I go through at least 2.5 gallons of MSMA 6 per year.