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dhess
07-30-2008, 01:25 AM
Anyone know how most of Rainbirds and Irritrol's Total Control irrigation controllers handle overlapping scheduling?

does the overlapped time just get added on to the end of the que?

I'm having to program multiple properties to run shorter zone times while running multiple passes on the whole system.

I don't really want to calculate the total station times over again since I'll be constantly adjusting them.

My question is if I set the times on the controller to start for example Program A at 3 different times like..

12:00am
12:01am
12:02am

if this will always just run all three of those start times for program A back to back?

this would keep me from having to add up all the station times and put like

12:00am
01:30am
03:00am

assuming the station times added up to 90 mins.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 01:41 AM
It will stack them. Program A will run till it is completed on start time 1, then start time 2 will run, etc.... With that setup, you will be running non-stop for the total of all run times on program A x 3 starting at start time 1. This is of course is assuming there are no other overlapping run times on other programs.

bicmudpuppy
07-30-2008, 07:50 AM
With every controller I have touched lately, (not counting old vintage equipment) EXCEPT Rainbird ESP series, you don't even need the 12:01,12:02, 12:03............ You can have all your starts be the same time and the controller will stack them.

Wet_Boots
07-30-2008, 08:10 AM
The question arises why one would not designate the actual desired start times, instead of depending on program stacking.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 08:42 AM
The question arises why one would not designate the actual desired start times, instead of depending on program stacking.

Ditto. Why fry a hotdog when you can grill a hamburger?

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 09:29 AM
A cool feature of the W*M Smartline is program "D" can run concurrently, so low flow
stuff can run with the big dogs.

Wet_Boots
07-30-2008, 09:34 AM
Same with the ICC - but how much residential drip is of the low-flow variety?

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 09:43 AM
Same with the ICC - but how much residential drip is of the low-flow variety?

True, hydraulics have to be considered.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 10:00 AM
True, hydraulics have to be considered.

Yea, which can be easily measured with a Ultrasonic Doppler Flowmeter :clapping:

dhess
07-30-2008, 11:21 AM
The question arises why one would not designate the actual desired start times, instead of depending on program stacking.

cause adding numbers makes my head hurt :)

you can easily adjust the station times assuming the controller is going to stack and not have to go back and add up times and then recalculate the start times again.

lets say you add just 10 mins to one station, then you have to go back and change 2 start times on the controller, versus just adding the time to the actual zone (assuming you have no gap or spacing between start times)

lazy, somewhat, but it is smarter on complicated watering schedules where you can't have any gaps and may need to change constantly.

heres another thought. some controllers only do start times in 15 min increments. lets say for example you have a controller running 10 zones 5 min each and you need run program back to back 4 times.

lets say you have to start at 7pm so you have 50 mins total for each pass.

with 15 min increments you can set run times only at

7pm
8pm
9pm
10pm

notice 7:45 would cause overlap and you can't set the controller to 7:50pm because it only allows 15 min increments so you have to set it with that 10 min gap.

so you now have 30 mins of *dead watering time* that isn't being used...which can add up and be very important if you can only water during certain times. 3 controllers all doing this might add up to a whole hour of no watering time and when your given only x amount of hours to run watering it might cause problems.

so I was curious like on the rainbird if it would just run the program back to back without the gap.

Kiril
07-30-2008, 11:42 AM
My question is ..... why are you adjusting your run times so much? Dial the program in for your peak water usage (eg. summer), then use the season adjust. Most all controllers have that option now.

londonrain
07-30-2008, 12:43 PM
cause adding numbers makes my head hurt :)

you can easily adjust the station times assuming the controller is going to stack and not have to go back and add up times and then recalculate the start times again.

lets say you add just 10 mins to one station, then you have to go back and change 2 start times on the controller, versus just adding the time to the actual zone (assuming you have no gap or spacing between start times)

lazy, somewhat, but it is smarter on complicated watering schedules where you can't have any gaps and may need to change constantly.

heres another thought. some controllers only do start times in 15 min increments. lets say for example you have a controller running 10 zones 5 min each and you need run program back to back 4 times.

lets say you have to start at 7pm so you have 50 mins total for each pass.

with 15 min increments you can set run times only at

7pm
8pm
9pm
10pm

notice 7:45 would cause overlap and you can't set the controller to 7:50pm because it only allows 15 min increments so you have to set it with that 10 min gap.

so you now have 30 mins of *dead watering time* that isn't being used...which can add up and be very important if you can only water during certain times. 3 controllers all doing this might add up to a whole hour of no watering time and when your given only x amount of hours to run watering it might cause problems.

so I was curious like on the rainbird if it would just run the program back to back without the gap.

I know what you are up against....
I have one property with two water meters, two ICC central controller with 80 zones with master valves and 16 independent Pro C controllers with 40+ zones. If I change just one run time I have to reprogram all 16 independent controller. I use program D on the central controllers so the master valves stay open for the independent controllers. My old way was by adding up total run times and doing the calculations and hoping all my calculation were correct. I now have a excel spread sheet the does all my calculations for me including all run times, start times for each independent controller rounding up in 15 min increments and the total time needed for the D program to run for the master valve......

DanaMac
07-30-2008, 01:06 PM
My question is ..... why are you adjusting your run times so much? Dial the program in for your peak water usage (eg. summer), then use the season adjust. Most all controllers have that option now.

I've found that most homeowners don't understand the season adjust feature. One guy thought it changed the water pressure. :laugh:

Kiril
07-30-2008, 02:14 PM
I know what you are up against....
I have one property with two water meters, two ICC central controller with 80 zones with master valves and 16 independent Pro C controllers with 40+ zones. If I change just one run time I have to reprogram all 16 independent controller. I use program D on the central controllers so the master valves stay open for the independent controllers. My old way was by adding up total run times and doing the calculations and hoping all my calculation were correct. I now have a excel spread sheet the does all my calculations for me including all run times, start times for each independent controller rounding up in 15 min increments and the total time needed for the D program to run for the master valve......

Your a hunter man ..... one word

IMMS (http://www.hunterindustries.com/Products/Central_Controls/immsintro.html)

dhess
07-30-2008, 05:01 PM
I know what you are up against....
I have one property with two water meters, two ICC central controller with 80 zones with master valves and 16 independent Pro C controllers with 40+ zones. If I change just one run time I have to reprogram all 16 independent controller. I use program D on the central controllers so the master valves stay open for the independent controllers. My old way was by adding up total run times and doing the calculations and hoping all my calculation were correct. I now have a excel spread sheet the does all my calculations for me including all run times, start times for each independent controller rounding up in 15 min increments and the total time needed for the D program to run for the master valve......

wow that is a nightmare. makes mine look like a piece of cake.

this property has 7 total controllers. 5 of the 7 controllers share one water source which spans about a 1 mile stretch. Those 5 can't overlap due to one water source (no pressure) and a large majority are rotors.

So there is a total of around ~25 hours total on these 5 controllers to water just a minimum of 10 mins on regular spray heads and 15-20 mins on rotors for ONE pass on this property. All of which can't overlap.

so two waterings a week needs ~45-50 hours (remember we are in drought conditions here, 100+ everyday).

The City of Austin with its new water restrictions has given all commerical properties exactly 30 hours a week total for watering. Also, watering can only be done on Tues,Friday between 12:00am-10am then 07:00pm-11:59pm.

Also this property has high traffic all the time with cars, joggers, old foggies with wheelchairs, dogs, camels, ect...

After turning in paperwork the City has given us two additonal days, so now that makes it 60 hours total.

now its a matter of what areas I can water when noone is on it.

Rotor_Tool
07-30-2008, 06:14 PM
Anyone ever hear of cycle and soak? Granted not available on every controller, but it is available on many models today....

Rotor_Tool
07-30-2008, 06:20 PM
Anyone ever hear of cycle and soak? Granted not available on every controller, but it is available on many models today....

Didn't read all of the posts, now I see what you are trying to accomplish. Watering window restrictions are for suckers and politicians!

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 06:32 PM
Anyone ever hear of cycle and soak? Granted not available on every controller, but it is available on many models today....

Pain in the butt if you've got other programs running and the hydraulics or
the clock won't run concurrently. Works best for run- off or golf tees.

londonrain
07-30-2008, 07:41 PM
Dhess check your PM box.....

bicmudpuppy
07-30-2008, 08:27 PM
The question arises why one would not designate the actual desired start times, instead of depending on program stacking.

And the obvious answer is I'm LAZY. I've got a problem with run-off on a site.....Instead of doing a lot of re-programing, I either cut the percentage to 25 or I reduce the times to 25% of what I had programed and then plug in 4 identical starts. I still water a total of 100%, but it happens in four short pieces. Many top end systems will do this for you automatically. My current site pro system ASKS me how many repeats I want within every program I set up. 3-repeats means the program gets split into 4 parts. I am NOT going to ever EVER ever attempt to manually program the 2-3,000 nightly events that take place every day. (I am down to just over 2K events per night due to some much appreciated rain last weekend) It does feel very good to be running less than 500,000 gal a night for a while (actually just over 1/3 of a mil). With August coming, I will be back to 2/3 of a mil per day very soon.

Mike Leary
07-30-2008, 08:34 PM
Welcome back to the forum.