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View Full Version : New Holland skid steers/CTLS


Bleed Green
07-30-2008, 10:26 PM
Has anyone ever tried the New Holland skid steers or CTL's and if so what do you think of them? They don't seem to get much market play.

Mowingman
07-30-2008, 10:28 PM
Yes, I have noticed that too. We are looking at getting a new CTL and have a price from the local New Holland dealer. I see a lot of New holland rubber tire Skidsteers, but no track machines.

Junior M
07-30-2008, 10:34 PM
Yes, I have noticed that too. We are looking at getting a new CTL and have a price from the local New Holland dealer. I see a lot of New holland rubber tire Skidsteers, but no track machines.
we have one at work and it is just so far behind technologically wise... i am not sure what year it is but it only has like seven hundred hours on it and it was bought with five hundred hours so it isnt that old but the throttle is on a cable not a linkage,, there is no seat bar just a seat belt... and what dash is there is almost like a case dash but it is extremely crammed... i just dont really like it... control and ride wise i am not sure.. they wont let me run equipment alot anymore since i showed up one of there operators....

Scag48
07-31-2008, 03:10 AM
New Hollands are part Case, how much they share with Case I'm not entirely sure. (Cue PowerTan fanatic) I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the undercarriages of the tracked Case machines and NH's are the same, can someone verify?

New Hollands have always been a workhorse, no frill machine. They are generally longer in overall length than competitors given the boom linkage and engine compartment. I've noticed they are typically favored for use in heavy lifting applications, at least that's been my observation. They seem to be a good choice in heavy lift applications given their geometry, one can't argue too much with that component. They pack a seemingly greater amount of weight further behind the rear wheels when compared to comparable sized machines available from others.

ksss
07-31-2008, 09:38 AM
New Hollands are part Case, how much they share with Case I'm not entirely sure. (Cue PowerTan fanatic) I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the undercarriages of the tracked Case machines and NH's are the same, can someone verify?

New Hollands have always been a workhorse, no frill machine. They are generally longer in overall length than competitors given the boom linkage and engine compartment. I've noticed they are typically favored for use in heavy lifting applications, at least that's been my observation. They seem to be a good choice in heavy lift applications given their geometry, one can't argue too much with that component. They pack a seemingly greater amount of weight further behind the rear wheels when compared to comparable sized machines available from others.


They share some commonality such as engines (although they are set at a lower hp), instrument clusters tend to be the same. The pilots I was told were different. I know that even though machines are built in the same factory they pursued the Pilot controls individually. The running gear, drives are all different. The tracked units run the same undercarriage.

NH skid steers are popular, much to my amazement. They are big here with concrete guys. Although you don't see as many new ones as there used to be. Some guys prefer to grade with them because of the long wheel base, the bucket tends to dig in better. It apppears that NH has worked hard to update their machine, the cab is supposed to be improved although not pressurized. They seem to be very reliable. I have not seen anyone out here with a CTL NH.

bobcat_ron
07-31-2008, 10:45 AM
I have yet to see a NH skid of any type here, I've seen more Case's and Deere's.

stuvecorp
07-31-2008, 02:43 PM
I had a 665 and 170. They were fine just no frills and underpowered. They are an overachieving machine I think. I don't like their seatbelt arrangement, I want a seatbar. It was a major pain when you are in and out. The 170 had foam filled tires and steel Grouser tracks and it graded very well and only being 66" helped on the tight jobs. If I keep getting hardscape work I might get another one because they lift alot. They sell alot around here (Wisconsin and Minnesota).

SinjonAssociates
07-31-2008, 07:57 PM
I have an 05 LS 185.b and have been very happy with it. It is a no frills machine with a high lift capacity and very easy to dig and grade with. The new version L185.b is a four cylinder vs a three and more powerful. The cab has had huge improvements done to its interior to bring it closer to the competition. I would love to buy a new one but I can't justify the expense. Out here they are very popular with concrete and landscape contractors. The only other skid I have used is a John Deere so I can't compare them to any others but if I had a choice I would buy another and the others who have them would do so too.

George

KTM
08-01-2008, 09:31 PM
I have just purchased A L170 for a smaller machine, for the most part I like it, it was either Case or NH and I thought the NH was a better machine for the money. I would rather have a safety bar, and if it was a machine that I was going to be running a lot I would get the pilot controls as the standard sticks are stiff. Farmers and landscapers around here love NH and they have great resale around here

ssprtman12
09-13-2008, 09:25 PM
we have a NH C190 (CTL) at work. . .we used to have a wheeled machine too. I have run most company skid steers, and this is by far one of my favorites. It is the old style hand foot controls, but the thing is fast, powerful, and a workhorse. . .very few problems!

meets1
09-13-2008, 11:09 PM
Alot around my area as well but they are with concrete crews and farmers. I personally don't like the machine but I where I am at, my options are BC or NH or I drive 2 hours to get something different ie CAT. So there are alot of NH and BC around and after demoing both units this spring I went with BC.

One construction crew we work for as a sub has one wheeled and one track NH. The guys hate em. There only a year old and the owner just bought 2 new case machines, 1 wheel and 1 track. All is other equipment is also case so I would guess he got a good deal.

I guess I don't understand why you need rubber bumper guards on the lift arms? It seems that whenever I run/ran one the arms area always banging the side of the cab??

ksss
09-14-2008, 12:26 AM
Alot around my area as well but they are with concrete crews and farmers. I personally don't like the machine but I where I am at, my options are BC or NH or I drive 2 hours to get something different ie CAT. So there are alot of NH and BC around and after demoing both units this spring I went with BC.

One construction crew we work for as a sub has one wheeled and one track NH. The guys hate em. There only a year old and the owner just bought 2 new case machines, 1 wheel and 1 track. All is other equipment is also case so I would guess he got a good deal.

I guess I don't understand why you need rubber bumper guards on the lift arms? It seems that whenever I run/ran one the arms area always banging the side of the cab??


I noticed that the NH machines are specing along side the CASE machines now for power. Kinda scary. The machines are built or at least were when I toured the factory sometime ago, alot lighter. The L190 weighs 1000 pounds less than the 465. As I were. I happened to check the only model that the above applies to the L190. Engine specs are identical. However it appears that the 190 is only model that gets the high hp/torque motor. The rest of the models are lesser powered than their CASE counter part. I never thought much of the NH machines, but you cant argue with their staying power in a very competative market.

Digdeep
09-14-2008, 10:25 AM
I never thought much of the NH machines, but you cant argue with their staying power in a very competative market.

NH had a much better market share nationally in 2007 than Case did. I can't remember the exact numbers but I'll call my contact at Bobcat to get the numbers on skids for last year.

meets1
09-14-2008, 05:51 PM
What is the market share for skids?

02DURAMAX
09-14-2008, 06:00 PM
Love New Holland They are the most bought Skid steers im this area....I did a job shadow at a company that has 252 New Holland Skids and just bought 15 New Holland CTL..and most every company just buys New Holland...My uncle bought a L190 Last summmer and My brother works For "CNH" which stands for CASE NEW HOLLAND! BIG A$$ Company!!

Tigerotor77W
09-14-2008, 06:10 PM
I did a job shadow at a company that has 252 New Holland Skids and just bought 15 New Holland CTL

What company is that?

ksss
09-14-2008, 06:52 PM
NH had a much better market share nationally in 2007 than Case did. I can't remember the exact numbers but I'll call my contact at Bobcat to get the numbers on skids for last year.


That would be surprising. Although prior to the merger the two have always been neck and neck in marketshare. I think with CASE releasing the series 3 machines they will increase marketshare, although a downturn economy will effect that. CASE has shored up their lineup. Prior to the S-3 machines there were some overperformers (440, 450 465) and some underachievers (420, 435, 445). Now with class leading torque in almost every weight class, they have a very competent machine for every ROC class. This is the machine they should have released with the intro of the 400 series. Reminds me much of the CAT B series.

Swampy
09-14-2008, 06:56 PM
Used a 865 NH for some snow removal last year, worked great for loading the trucks to haul it away and never got her to bog down when I was digging into ice. Just don't shut them off in cold weather (-20 with the wind chill) I'm guessing as they age they get harder to start in cold winters

02DURAMAX
09-15-2008, 12:57 AM
What company is that?

Acres Group!..They Have more than 252 White Trucks , Orange Lettering, And All Chevys..:weightlifter::weightlifter:..

Im sure you have seen them around!!

stuvecorp
09-15-2008, 11:33 PM
NH had a much better market share nationally in 2007 than Case did. I can't remember the exact numbers but I'll call my contact at Bobcat to get the numbers on skids for last year.

I would like to see the market numbers for the last twenty years. Is that info out there?

Digdeep
09-16-2008, 12:15 AM
I would like to see the market numbers for the last twenty years. Is that info out there?

I don't have the last 20 years but my buddy did cough up AEM numbers for2007 and the first half of this year.

2007
Bobcat 34%
CAT 17%
NH 16%
Case 11%
JD 10%
Gehl, Mustang, Komatsu, Volvo, and a bunch of others make up the rest.

2008 through June
Bobcat 38%
CAT 17%
NH 14%
JD 12%
Case 9%
Gehl 6%
Mustang, Komatsu, Volvo, JCB and a bunch of others make up the rest.

stuvecorp
09-16-2008, 12:20 AM
Thanks, Digdeep. I am surprised that NH was more than Case and was surprised that Bobcat hold that much lead over everyone. The twenty year history would be interesting to see(trends).

Digdeep
09-16-2008, 12:29 AM
Thanks, Digdeep. I am surprised that NH was more than Case and was surprised that Bobcat hold that much lead over everyone. The twenty year history would be interesting to see(trends).

I've always liked the Case machines for their power and performance. They were a formidable opponent when I was selling Bobcats. My personal opinion is that the 400 series just hasn't been accepted and I do believe that they are a step back from the XT machines. A guy I sold Bobcats with now works for a large Case dealer here in Wisconsin and he really isn't a fan of the new machines. He said that Case should have spent more time working on some of the machines faults instead of coming out with needless cab improvements such as trying to pressurize it- he said it doesn't work worth s@#t and the factory high flow and cooling is worthless with a mulcher and the good BIC after market option costs around $4000. I've always liked their high hp and big displacement engines.

ccstrebe
09-16-2008, 01:16 AM
Wow, I had no idea Bobcat had that big of a market share.

Construct'O
09-16-2008, 08:55 AM
I don't have the last 20 years but my buddy did cough up AEM numbers for2007 and the first half of this year.

2007
Bobcat 34%
CAT 17%
NH 16%
Case 11%
JD 10%
Gehl, Mustang, Komatsu, Volvo, and a bunch of others make up the rest.

2008 through June
Bobcat 38%
CAT 17%
NH 14%
JD 12%
Case 9%
Gehl 6%
Mustang, Komatsu, Volvo, JCB and a bunch of others make up the rest.

Where is ASV :confused:

ccstrebe
09-16-2008, 09:26 AM
I've always liked the Case machines for their power and performance. They were a formidable opponent when I was selling Bobcats. My personal opinion is that the 400 series just hasn't been accepted and I do believe that they are a step back from the XT machines. A guy I sold Bobcats with now works for a large Case dealer here in Wisconsin and he really isn't a fan of the new machines. He said that Case should have spent more time working on some of the machines faults instead of coming out with needless cab improvements such as trying to pressurize it- he said it doesn't work worth s@#t and the factory high flow and cooling is worthless with a mulcher and the good BIC after market option costs around $4000. I've always liked their high hp and big displacement engines.

Just curious, I dont have any experiance with the XT Cases, why would the 400 series be a step back?

Digdeep
09-16-2008, 02:34 PM
Where is ASV :confused:

gosh i love it when I have "planning hours" between classes. Last year it was at the tail end of the luch hour. Want hard work? Try keeping 6-8th graders in line during luch hour!

The information I was given only covers skid steers. I'm not sure if OEMs report CTL sales yet. I know they didn't when I was a salesman.

Digdeep
09-16-2008, 02:36 PM
Just curious, I dont have any experiance with the XT Cases, why would the 400 series be a step back?

My impression is that people don't like the loader arms as much, and before the recent improvement in engine hp on the Series 3 I would argue that a few of the smaller skids were underpowered.

mrsops
09-16-2008, 05:21 PM
GO BOBCAT!!! wait until ksss sees how good his case did :laugh:

stuvecorp
09-16-2008, 07:22 PM
I've always liked the Case machines for their power and performance. They were a formidable opponent when I was selling Bobcats. My personal opinion is that the 400 series just hasn't been accepted and I do believe that they are a step back from the XT machines. A guy I sold Bobcats with now works for a large Case dealer here in Wisconsin and he really isn't a fan of the new machines. He said that Case should have spent more time working on some of the machines faults instead of coming out with needless cab improvements such as trying to pressurize it- he said it doesn't work worth s@#t and the factory high flow and cooling is worthless with a mulcher and the good BIC after market option costs around $4000. I've always liked their high hp and big displacement engines.

I remember when the small frame XT's came out, I believe I called it a 'battering ram'(not complimentary). The XT's just didn't win over any one, yet the 70XT(and now 440) is a monster and nobody knows it. Wonder if the Case dealers dropped the ball too.

stuvecorp
09-16-2008, 07:23 PM
My impression is that people don't like the loader arms as much, and before the recent improvement in engine hp on the Series 3 I would argue that a few of the smaller skids were underpowered.

I would like the 450 style loader arms on the 440.

ksss
09-16-2008, 08:10 PM
My impression is that people don't like the loader arms as much, and before the recent improvement in engine hp on the Series 3 I would argue that a few of the smaller skids were underpowered.


Some were underpowered. The 420 and the 435 specifically although they still were competative with other machines on the market, just not as dominate as CASE usually is in engine performance. The 435 and 445 had the same loader arms which was a carry over from the 75XT. Other than that there has not been a loader arm change in any of the machines from the XT series. Now the 435 has the same loader arms and the 445 which is the old 85XT have the 95XT/465 loader arms like they used to.

ksss
09-16-2008, 08:16 PM
I've always liked the Case machines for their power and performance. They were a formidable opponent when I was selling Bobcats. My personal opinion is that the 400 series just hasn't been accepted and I do believe that they are a step back from the XT machines. A guy I sold Bobcats with now works for a large Case dealer here in Wisconsin and he really isn't a fan of the new machines. He said that Case should have spent more time working on some of the machines faults instead of coming out with needless cab improvements such as trying to pressurize it- he said it doesn't work worth s@#t and the factory high flow and cooling is worthless with a mulcher and the good BIC after market option costs around $4000. I've always liked their high hp and big displacement engines.


I think to appreciate the 400 series over the XT you have to run it every day. The 400 series is an improvement at least in the machines that I run. The 70XT I had, I traded for the 440 and the 95XT I traded for a 465. The performance improvements of the 440 are greatly improved over the 70XT which was a good machine. The 465 the improvements are not a noticeable. I am not sure what the issue that the sales guy is having with the high flow cooling and why it would be different with a mulcher. Even at high elevations with the older system they never get warm, even with these guys running 50" tree spades with tracks and 2K worth of counter weight.

If I a complaint it would be that improvements in the Series 3 machine had come with the intro of the 400 series. There was no reason for the cab to have taken that long to release.

ksss
09-16-2008, 08:20 PM
GO BOBCAT!!! wait until ksss sees how good his case did :laugh:


CASE is doing fine in marketshare and remember these are numbers to which we don't know the origin of. That is not meant deragatory to Dig Deep but they differ from the numbers I had this Spring. I don't know how to verify the numbers so I don't pass them.

There is no doubt that BC still sells a lot of skid steers. Just like Ford sells a lot of trucks, but I don't buy those POS's either.

Junior M
09-16-2008, 08:26 PM
GO BOBCAT!!! :laugh:



I second that!!!

bobcat_ron
09-16-2008, 10:05 PM
Whatever happened to the Case skid steer that came with that neat dual tire/track system?

stuvecorp
09-16-2008, 10:10 PM
Whatever happened to the Case skid steer that came with that neat dual tire/track system?

Cat was pushing that real hard a couple years ago here, there is many running around.

We demoed a 85XT or 95XT that had that track system on it, the salesman dropped it off Friday night and it had a flat tire when we were looking at it so we never got to try it out. The salesman got beat for it, felt bad he was a nice guy.

ksss
09-16-2008, 10:16 PM
Whatever happened to the Case skid steer that came with that neat dual tire/track system?


You know I am not sure. There was a tree company that had one equipped like that. The first thing they learned that the tires had to be solid. Flats really sucked. I spoke with another guy who had 3 90XT's equipped like that. He loved them. I also spoke with a guy that had that system on a 95XT with the 5K high flow that did a lot asphalt grinding. He said that system made the machine more solid when grinding. The popularity of the CTL was likely the nail in the coffin.