PDA

View Full Version : Dosatron or Chemilizer?


PHS
07-31-2008, 05:56 PM
Anyone using a Dosatron or Chemilizer as a portable spray rig?

Have been looking at these things and wondering if I could rig one up in the back of my truck for low pressure apps. Two hose reels, one reel to connect to the water source and one for the spray hose. I don't do apps all day so if it takes a few extra minutes to set up it's not that big of a deal and I could use the extra space in my truck not having to haul around a tank full of water. Any comments?

greendoctor
08-01-2008, 04:44 AM
I use a Mixrite injector on a cart for liquid fertilizer applications on large ornamental beds. This injector adjusts from 3%-10% injection ratios. VERY IMPORTANT. The inlet to the injector/connection to the hose bibb has an RPZ on it. I will not connect such a device to public water without backflow protection. Also, quite a few products contain prohibitions against application through an irrigation system or if it is allowed the water supply must be separated by a water tank. Having said this, it works extremely well for high volume, low pressure applications to turf and ornamentals. I put a 3GPM Chemlawn nozzle on the end of a watering wand and go to it. In public areas, this set up is great. There is no indentifiable "spray machine". This is important in my area. There is a vocal minority that wants to mandate "green". The fewer of them that know someone is applying chemical pesticides and fertilizers the better. I would check with your pesticides enforcement division. I know mine does not allow any hose-end sprayers. So all my set up is used for is high volume application of fertilizers.

greendoctor
08-01-2008, 05:14 AM
I can hook up the cart at a hose bibb or QC at some far out-of-sight corner of a property and no one walking past knows I am doing more than hand watering. The watering wand with the sprinkler head at the end does not raise any red flags.

PHS
08-01-2008, 08:53 AM
If they consider it to be an irrgation system then that throws a monkey wrench in my idea. I could still use it but pre-m's are high on my list of uses and they aren't labeled for that. I can see how it would be an irrigation system and I can also see how it wouldn't be. Maybe I'll put in a call today and see if I can come up with an official answer. With the cost of fuel and everything else, utilizing a technology like that might really help keeps costs down (keep me from having to buy a larger truck just to haul more water).

Ric
08-01-2008, 10:27 AM
PHS

I have a Chemilizer injector set up on a 50 gallon skid sprayer with a feeder hose keeping the tank full. I use a float valve and have a 2" siphon break for filling the tank. I use the 1/128 pump but also have the 2/128 pump.

My rig is on a trailer, pulled by a 27 MPG Ranger works great. I use it only for straight Insecticide Application. Yes it will someday be the standard once the injector systems are perfected. For now they must be watched very closely to ensure they are working properly.

PHS
08-01-2008, 10:45 AM
I have a Ranger too with a box trailer. When I put the sprayer in the bed then I barely have enough room for other stuff. Then I take it off and put it on a flat trailer and it's a pain to not be able to spray while doing other work. Eliminating the pump, engine, and water tank would be really nice.

What kinds of problems do you run into with them?

Az Gardener
08-01-2008, 11:13 AM
I have used chemilizer, dosatron, dosamatic, mazzi, you name it on residential irrigation systems. The chemilizer is good if you have high enough flow rates I forget the exact number but on my properties with small drip zones I could not get it to operate.

The Dosatron and Dosamatic are identical and they seem to operate without a problem regardless of flow rate. They are also the standard at nurseries across the country that are doing hand watering and want to put down some fert too. I have seen them everywhere here and also in New Mexico, Calif, Ind, Ohio, Louisiana, anywhere I have been and looked around at nurseries or big public gardens I have seen a Dosasomething.

The only down side to the dosa's is you have to replace the o-rings about once a year, not that big of deal. You will also need to get a very fine screened wye strainer. I forget the #/screen size but as I recall they are about $ 200-250.

Ric
08-01-2008, 11:14 AM
PHS

When I first bought the Chemilizer I tried hooking it to a Garden Hose just as an experiment. Sorry just not enough pressure and volume to push all that length of hose IMHO. May be it would work for you? Try a PestJet hose end sprayer from Rittenhouse if you want a better hose end sprayer. Or go with a Herbi and no hose to drag. My chemilizer is a second unit used only on a few straight insecticide jobs. I use a Cab Over 98% of the time.

BTW There are Complete Termite rigs that work off a dual hose reel setup with a motor and pump. They are expensive and have no holding tank. However they are designed to put down 100 gallons per 1,000 square feet, or termite rate.

Ric
08-01-2008, 11:32 AM
Az Gardener

The reason I went with Chemilizer was my Irrigation supplier. They claim to many problems with Dosatron. All their customers seem to be happy chemilizer and don't have to replace them as often. Sewage Treatment plants are the hardest on injector pumps because the chemicals eat them up. Fertilizer does a great job of eating them up also. The Viscosity of the Material limits what you can inject. I am sure Herbicides would work, But I only do insecticides in mine. If my injector messes up a little with insecticides, I don't have the Liability that I would with Herbicides. I see Injectors as the wave of the future, but they still need to be perfected.

greendoctor
08-02-2008, 04:46 AM
If you are thinking about using an injector for applying pre-emergents, the other issue is agitation of the concentrate tank. I do not know of any clear liquid preemergent herbicides other than Betasan, Dimension EC and Pre-M 3.3 EC. The rest are all insoluble suspensions of some kind. Many of the insecticides and fungicides are also not true solutions either. I only feel truly safe injecting soluble fertilizers. I rather apply everything else through an engine driven sprayer with some kind of agitation.

PHS
08-02-2008, 10:26 AM
Try a PestJet hose end sprayer from Rittenhouse if you want a better hose end sprayer. Or go with a Herbi and no hose to drag.

I'm not looking for a hose end sprayer. I'm exploring alternatives to the two hydraulic sprayers I have. I've used Herbi's, that's not going to work.

If you are thinking about using an injector for applying pre-emergents, the other issue is agitation of the concentrate tank.

I build my own electric backpack sprayers and was thinking I could attach the same pump and battery for agitation. If it's truck mounted I could wire the pump to the truck pretty easily.

I don't have cash in hand and ready to buy one of these things. I still have a lot more research to do. Just kicking the idea around for a wintertime project.

Here's one of the sprayers I'm using. It's disassembled right now as I'm mounting it on a new frame, there's a second cone tank that mounts next to the other one and the unit sits sideways in the truck so the hose reel faces the house. 116030

ICT Bill
08-02-2008, 10:36 AM
can see how it would be an irrigation system and I can also see how it wouldn't be. Maybe I'll put in a call today and see if I can come up with an official answer.

PHS, Interesting, I would not have thought of that. Isn't a spray rig a spray rig. I did not know there were different definitions for irrigation, pesticide applications, etc.

I can understand about the hose end sprayer and hooking spray tanks to the municipal water source, back feed contamination, not good. Let us know if you find a solid definition

PHS
08-02-2008, 11:36 AM
Interesting, I would not have thought of that.

I didn't think of it either till Green mentioned it. I'm leaning toward it not being considered an irrgation system. If an inspector has a problem with it it would probably be for other reasons, difficulty of proper calibration, etc.

I can understand about the hose end sprayer and hooking spray tanks to the municipal water source, back feed contamination, not good. Let us know if you find a solid definition

Unless somebody removes them, all faucets here have backflow preventers plus on the Doastron website, along with filters and such there a additional backflow preventers that are mounted up stream of the unit. The designs are a little different but the way the materials are mixed into the water flow it would be very difficult to have a backflow situation regardless.

Ric
08-02-2008, 01:57 PM
PHS

I am curious about the Cone shaped Tank?????? What is it and where did you get it??????? BTW looks like you have a Beam Pump?


As for researching Injector system, I have been looking at them off and on for 10 years now. First ones I looked at were $ 2,500 to $ 3,500 and that was only the Injector to put on my Skid sprayer. The only reason I took the plunge now was I bought the Chemilizer for 10% of that price. I look at it as a affordable toy that I could trash if it didn't work. While my Cab Over has 3 tanks pumps and Reels, None of them are used for straight Insecticide. There is a large Fire Ants only Market (fleas & Ticks also) That I was not touching. While a very competitive market, It does have some great advantages. Very little Chemical inventory and no great Education requirements for the spray Jockey. Low Ball pricing is not a Production issue as much as a Marketing issue expense wise.

Part of my Research was to call the Chemical Manufacture and talk with one of their chemist. My concern was mixing high concentration of Insecticides and surfactants and still having Efficacy as well as shelve life. Viscosity was also a concern for proper calibration. I found I had to decrease my normal higher rate of surfactant to the standard 0.25% for proper injection.

Green Doctor brings up some good points about agitation of certain products. Unless we are deal with Pure Solutions agitation is an issue. Because I am mixing chemicals in a very small jug I use a Battery powered Drill to mix with. But this is done by hand and not constant. Therefore an other thing to consider is a mechanical agitator for certain products.

I feel Injectors are the wave of the future but still have a long way to go before in general use. Chemical Manufacture must jump on the band wagon and make injection favorable chemicals. As for the Double hose reel and Customer water use, I think we will see more of that as Fuel prices increase for the big tanker truck. I also want to point out the increase Time of not only hooking up to customer water but the perception by the customer and the marketing of a better job at a lesser cost. I think the Big Boys will not go customer water use because of production and customer perception. I feel if you run the numbers Big tanker truck are still more economical on the bottom line when dealing with large volume accounts. However the small account volume I have at present time for straight Ant control, Customer Water is a winner. Should My market take off, I will reconsider Customer water.

BTW If In didn't say it before I use a tank that is filled with a float valve and has the 2" anti siphon break above the tank as per my states law. Check valve are ban by the way the law is written.

heritage
08-02-2008, 02:17 PM
PHS

I am curious about the Cone shaped Tank?????? What is it and where did you get it??????? BTW looks like you have a Beam Pump?


As for researching Injector system, I have been looking at them off and on for 10 years now. First ones I looked at were $ 2,500 to $ 3,500 and that was only the Injector to put on my Skid sprayer. The only reason I took the plunge now was I bought the Chemilizer for 10% of that price. I look at it as a affordable toy that I could trash if it didn't work. While my Cab Over has 3 tanks pumps and Reels, None of them are used for straight Insecticide. There is a large Fire Ants only Market (fleas & Ticks also) That I was not touching. While a very competitive market, It does have some great advantages. Very little Chemical inventory and no great Education requirements for the spray Jockey. Low Ball pricing is not a Production issue as much as a Marketing issue expense wise.

Part of my Research was to call the Chemical Manufacture and talk with one of their chemist. My concern was mixing high concentration of Insecticides and surfactants and still having Efficacy as well as shelve life. Viscosity was also a concern for proper calibration. I found I had to decrease my normal higher rate of surfactant to the standard 0.25% for proper injection.

Green Doctor brings up some good points about agitation of certain products. Unless we are deal with Pure Solutions agitation is an issue. Because I am mixing chemicals in a very small jug I use a Battery powered Drill to mix with. But this is done by hand and not constant. Therefore an other thing to consider is a mechanical agitator for certain products.

I feel Injectors are the wave of the future but still have a long way to go before in general use. Chemical Manufacture must jump on the band wagon and make injection favorable chemicals. As for the Double hose reel and Customer water use, I think we will see more of that as Fuel prices increase for the big tanker truck. I also want to point out the increase Time of not only hooking up to customer water but the perception by the customer and the marketing of a better job at a lesser cost. I think the Big Boys will not go customer water use because of production and customer perception. I feel if you run the numbers Big tanker truck are still more economical on the bottom line when dealing with large volume accounts. However the small account volume I have at present time for straight Ant control, Customer Water is a winner. Should My market take off, I will reconsider Customer water.

BTW If In didn't say it before I use a tank that is filled with a float valve and has the 2" anti siphon break above the tank as per my states law. Check valve are ban by the way the law is written.

http://www.watertanks.com/products/0155-010.asp


You can click on "View Product Drawing" Ric, for dimensions.

Pete

Ric
08-02-2008, 02:57 PM
http://www.watertanks.com/products/0155-010.asp


You can click on "View Product Drawing" Ric, for dimensions.

Pete

Thanks Pete

There are advantages and disadvantages to a tank like that. You can get the last drop, But you also get all the trash.

PHS
08-02-2008, 08:07 PM
The cone tank is a 15gal, the one that mounts next to it is a 30. This winter I was thinking about swapping in a 60g cone but we'll see. Most of the reason I like cone tanks is for the complete drain out (less cross contamination) and the ease of mixing small batches. Right now the only herbicides I spray out of them are pre-m's (gallery, dimension, prodiamine) so I can clean them out well after the round and switch back to insect's and fung's for the rest of the time. I'd like to set it up so I have two seperate systems...one of these days.

The pump is a Bean R10 and it runs like a champ. I have an R2020 on my tree spraying rig but I don't use that a whole lot. It's on a seperate trailer that I keep at the shop.

The only reason I took the plunge now was I bought the Chemilizer for 10% of that price. I look at it as a affordable toy that I could trash if it didn't work.

That's kinda how I'm looking at it too.

Ric
08-04-2008, 10:20 AM
Green Doctor

About 6 years ago I had the opportunity to raid a TG/CL truck Junk Yard. I paid for all the parts but had to strip them myself. If I remember correctly I spend close to a $ 1,000 but got a ton of good junk. Besides several Hydracell 25 and SS Hose Reels I also got a 25 gallon injector tank with both Mechanical and By Pass agitation. This is the tank used on the double hose set ups where the gun has two triggers. I still use the tank as a stand alone herbicide tank and love the mechanical agitation for 4L Atrazine. If I don't empty tank the first day I leave the Mechanical agitator on pulse over night and I am good to go the next day. But the point is many years ago TG/CL set up agitation for injecting chemical. While we all seem to be very down on TG/CL techs, TG/CL has people who have forgotten more about this business than we know. They do try and build equipment and programs that are Idiot proof since all there Techs are in fact Fools hired right off the street. I am not sure what was used in the second hose and whether it was insecticide or Herbicide, But TG/CL has done spot treatment of both while liquid ferting a lawn.

The reason I bring this up is to back up my statement about Injection systems still having a long way to go before becoming common place. I am not sure TG/CL still uses Double hose systems. At one time they used a Quart Jar hung off the applicators belt and injected at the Hose end with a Gun. In theory injection has many GREAT points and safety features. In practice Injection has many problems. So far My injector system has worked great. But then it is used for only one proposes and with one simple Chemical.

greendoctor
08-04-2008, 02:20 PM
At one time I had a lot of respect for CL because they knew their stuff and performed what I could call a professional application. Now I hear stories of poor weed control, high pressure sales instead of a high pressure spray application and running around the lawn with a spreader set on its lowest setting. Some of my clients remember when they had Chemlawn in the early 80's while living on the continent. They said they did a good job back then.

I do not think this type of equipment is used any more. It is now mostly granules and spot spray. Remember what I always say about not doing things the way a DIYer can. Now they do things that way in the name of being fast and cheap. I do not often combine fertilizer with chemicals and I maintain 4 different types of turfgrass. In order to not have to batch mix, my injector system would have to draw from 4 different fertilzer mixes and 8 different herbicides, which are applied at different rates, sometimes 3 or herbicides together.