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View Full Version : When is somebody going to make a gear drive Stander??


tb8100
08-01-2008, 11:47 AM
Gravely could do it. Imagine a gear drive Pro Stance with the quick adjust deck and Pro Steer controls. Thing about a gear drive Pro Stance would be, they would be able to sell it at like $3200-$3500 for the 32"/36" machines. That would be pretty Snazzy huh??

buttaluv
08-01-2008, 12:20 PM
I have to disagree..based on my experience with Belt drives (my experience alone) the extra money for a hydro is WELL worth it!

tb8100
08-01-2008, 12:27 PM
I have to disagree..based on my experience with Belt drives (my experience alone) the extra money for a hydro is WELL worth it!

Down here, virtually nobody uses hydros. There's a big market for something like that here.

mag360
08-01-2008, 01:26 PM
I'd try one.

Richard Martin
08-01-2008, 02:42 PM
Be the first. It's not that hard.

1: Remove handlebars and associated blah, blah, blah.
2: Fashion a platform to stand on out of 3/4" angle iron and expanded metal. Put it as close the back of the frame as possible.
3: Reinstall handlebars and associated blah, blah, blah about 1 foot forward of where they were. It may take a few tries to get it right. You may (will) need to fashion a plate out of 1/8" steel to mount the handlebars to and attach it to the old rear frame where the handlebars mounted before.

I think that this would only be about a 6 to 10 hour job. Think outside the box when you fab stuff up like this. I'm currently working on steering for SD drive mowers like the Ferris and Quick mowers. Think Go Kart.

lawnboy dan
08-01-2008, 05:29 PM
there allready is one -its called a sulky

Richard Martin
08-01-2008, 05:41 PM
Yeah. That's too easy. We build stuff just to build stuff. Like converting a gear drive Crapsman mower to hydro. That was pretty easy. Some stuff works and some stuff don't. I keep my best, most productive invention to myself. It's never been seen or talked about here at Lawnsite.

LindblomRJ
08-01-2008, 05:43 PM
there allready is one -its called a sulky

That is kinda what I was thinking.

MJS
08-01-2008, 06:27 PM
Yeah. That's too easy. We build stuff just to build stuff. Like converting a gear drive Crapsman mower to hydro. That was pretty easy. Some stuff works and some stuff don't. I keep my best, most productive invention to myself. It's never been seen or talked about here at Lawnsite.

Until now. . .:laugh:

A gear driven stander would also be a good deal cheaper than a hydro. . . I'd definitely be interested.

South Florida Lawns
08-01-2008, 06:28 PM
there allready is one -its called a sulky

hahah NICE!

SNAPPER MAN
08-01-2008, 06:43 PM
Ya most people here dont use hydros but I think im getting ready to upgrade. The belt drive is kicking my ass.

KGR landscapeing
08-01-2008, 06:46 PM
Until now. . .:laugh:

A gear driven stander would also be a good deal cheaper than a hydro. . . I'd definitely be interested.

i think some of these guys are off there rockers. Why in the world would you want a sluggish cheap stand on mower????? hydro is the way to go

Roger
08-01-2008, 07:52 PM
I have not operated a stand-on mower, but have extensive experience with a hydro w/b and a hydro ZTR. I think one of the great features of a stand-on machine is the maneuverability, being able to make quick K-turns. Also, the ability to adjust to any ground speed condition, and having an instant reverse with full power, with the hydro system is a huge advantage.

A gear driven machine would only offer spin-turns, lacking an instant and full power reverse. Also, having a fixed ground speed with a specific gear would make such a combination very tedious.

Am I wrong on these counts?

Jay Ray
08-01-2008, 08:15 PM
I used belt drive exclusively for too long. Pretty good on flat ground and fairly wide open props. If all properties were like that the tradeoff of low purchase cost and low maint cost might make it worth staying with belt drive. But add complications like some slopes and ditch banks, and add to & tighten up the obstacles, and then belt drives become tedious work.

I've never used a stander but one of the selling points is they are very good on fairly steep slopes and banks. But take away the hydro and that may not be the case. imho a belt stander would be less stable.

Still there would probably be a niche for belt standers. But could enough units be sold to make it profitable?

dishboy
08-01-2008, 08:21 PM
What a ignorant idea, the air must be smokey down there and I don't mean forest fires.

ponyboy
08-01-2008, 08:59 PM
jay ray was correct how would you turn them, what abot hills and wet lawns i ran gear drives for 15 years and i finally switched to hydros wow i would never go back and how would the tranny hold up, i do not know how or why people put velkes on gears seems like a waste to me a hydro will same you a lot of time and be easier on your body and increase your productivity why would you use the slower gear machines?? and a stander gear seems like a waste to me

Happy Frog
08-02-2008, 12:58 AM
The Step Saver attaching to the new Quick Dually has two caster wheels and act as a fix platform attached to the mower.
It is just like a Stander for much cheaper...

mag360
08-02-2008, 01:45 AM
The Step Saver attaching to the new Quick Dually has two caster wheels and act as a fix platform attached to the mower.
It is just like a Stander for much cheaper...

You will lose a lot of traction that way. We had a 48inch hydro scag with a bullrider sulkie and the traction wasn't there to handle it. Ferris DD is the only walk behind that can handle that kind of weight on the back without a 60inch deck out front to counter it. (side slopes)

Roger
08-02-2008, 06:37 AM
... We had a 48inch hydro scag with a bullrider sulkie and the traction wasn't there to handle it. ...


My 36" Exmark Viking hydro wouldn't handle a BullRider in caster mode either. It works in trailer mode, but the machine wasn't heavy enough, not a wide enough footprint, to handle the caster BullRider.

hackitdown
08-02-2008, 07:49 AM
there allready is one -its called a sulky

Well...half the benefit of the stander or ZTR over a WB is instant/automatic reverse. A WB w/sulky can't reverse (easily). Being able to quickly change from forward to reverse and back is an amazing productivity boost.

A gear drive stander still makes no sense to me because again you lose the instant reverse.

A Hydro WB w/sulky doesn't make sense for me either when compared to a stander...since they are so close in price.

MJS
08-02-2008, 10:06 AM
i think some of these guys are off there rockers. Why in the world would you want a sluggish cheap stand on mower????? hydro is the way to go

Well, not exactly like that. . . I do think hydro is the best, but it's also the most expensive. I sure wouldn't mind having a hydro stander, but a gear driven model would be more accessible to more people.

If I went on only what I wanted, I'd have a 2008 Scag Z. But that ain't gonna happen :laugh:

tlb9596
08-02-2008, 10:08 AM
I have not operated a stand-on mower, but have extensive experience with a hydro w/b and a hydro ZTR. I think one of the great features of a stand-on machine is the maneuverability, being able to make quick K-turns. Also, the ability to adjust to any ground speed condition, and having an instant reverse with full power, with the hydro system is a huge advantage.

A gear driven machine would only offer spin-turns, lacking an instant and full power reverse. Also, having a fixed ground speed with a specific gear would make such a combination very tedious.

Am I wrong on these counts?

You are correct, Roger. However, I would liken the comparison of standers to walk-behinds. Standers are, after all, a logical walk-behind replacement. I can't think of many instances where one would use a walk-behind over a stander.

The reasons for a gear drive stander would be the following: shorter wheelbase, therefore smaller footprint. More fit on the trailer. Balancing is much easier vs a sulky. There are also fewer moving parts since there is no sulky. The biggest reason is that they would be $1500-$2000 cheaper than a comparable hydro. I can think of 1500-2000 good reasons why a gear drive Stander is better than a hydro, especially for guys just starting out.

olde_blue
08-02-2008, 11:02 AM
Most of the potential problems with a gear-drive Stander could be solved, with some clever engineering.

Problems:

#1: Belts slipping when wet. With a walk-behind, this can be dangerous, but you can retain some control by pulling on the handle; with a Stander, it would be very dangerous.

#2: No instant reverse, or ability to drive one wheel forward and the other backward.

The solutions:

A: Twin manual transmissions belt-clutched between the engine and transmission rather than belt-clutched between the transmission and wheels (no slippage in wet conditions).

B: A clever quad-lever style control which (from full speed forward) would "seamlessly" disengage the clutch, apply the brake, pass through a neutral center position with brake applied/full stop, then shift the transmission (on one side per lever) automatically into reverse as you move the quad lever backwards, then release the brake and engage the clutch for reverse. Since you have twin transmissions, one could be in forward gear while one is in reverse gear.

In order to fit such twin transmissions on a Wright small-frame Stander, you could mount them where the hydro pumps currently go, but you would have to use a chain drive to transfer the power to the wheels. I have a Honda walk-behind that uses twin manual transmission which are directly connected to the wheels and mounted below the engine deck, but this mounting would interfere with the operator's platform on a Stander. The Honda also does not allow you to individually shift the transmissions.

There is probably a patent owned by Honda on the twin-transmission setup, although no-one is currently manufacturing under it, so it probably could be licensed.

subs1000w
08-02-2008, 12:11 PM
sorry guys but i dont ever see a belt stander happening and that duel trans thing is just not a cost effective idea it wouldnt be worth it plus in my experiance the extra wieght of a stander would warrrent a heavier duty trans because ive had problems with my exmark belt trans 3 times and the peerless 700 series is the only type so they dont really exist so that would add more money to it which again why not just get a hydro they offer 0% financing for 12 months so an extra 2k shouldnt really matter an extra 180 a month big deal weel worth it or just buy a used machine for half the price of a new one

Richard Martin
08-02-2008, 01:31 PM
#2: No instant reverse, or ability to drive one wheel forward and the other backward.

The solutions:

A: Twin manual transmissions belt-clutched between the engine and transmission rather than belt-clutched between the transmission and wheels (no slippage in wet conditions).



Actually there is a belt routing that allows reverse of the drive wheels when you have the tranny in a forward gear. MTD roto tillers have used it in the past. It does require stacked pullies but it can definately be done..