Problems with TruGreen (Chemlawn)

[golftango]

I try and take great pride in my lawn. I normally do the four step "Scotts" treatment myself. But last year I decided to give TruGreen - Chemlawn a try since they were "professionals". Needless to say my lawn is a wreck. Crabgrass, dead spots, etc. It tears me up to see my lawn in such shape. Here are a few pics (sorry for the party scenes, those were the only photos I had of "before"). I'm in talks with the presidental office of TruGreen (ServiceMaster) now...but they are claiming that it's not their fault even though they have all the times I called to complain.

Before:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/BeforeSide.JPG

After:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterSide.JPG
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterSide2.JPG

Before:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/BeforeFence.JPG
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/BeforeFence2.jpg

After:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterFence2.JPG
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterFence.JPG

Before:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/BeforeFront.JPG

After:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterFront.JPG
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterFront2.JPG

Before:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/BeforeBack.JPG

After:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterBack.JPG

[Rtom45]

If the damage is directly related to work they did, I think I'd sue them. Thats the worst looking lawn I've seen in a long time.

[Valk]

Are the mowing procedures the same...same frequency, same height, still bagging/not bagging, etc...?

[mngrassguy]

Don't waste your time with the higher-ups at TG. Branch Mgr is the best you can get anything from. What are you asking them to do? What are they saying happened? Deal with one person there, pref the Branch Mgr, not the kids/girls who answer the phone. Look for names on the invoices and ask to speak to them personaly. Most important...BE CALM. Ask for a soil test, renovation at no charge. Good luck. Keep us up to date.

[Dunlaps LawnCare]

thats how a lot of trugreens lawns looks

[N&CLandscaping]

Biggest Mistake.... You used True Green. I have a few clients who used Truegreen and got the same results as you. They are horrible with personal service. They come and go and could give two Shoots about your property. They are just in it to make a buck and I would not recommend them to anyone. You are better off spending a little bit more on a good company in your area who will give you a little bit more attention to perfection. I seriously hate True Green. Just my two cents

[dKoester]

Check for grubs.

[bone1]

i used them once! called the company for the tech guy to call me back. he called and he was a idiot. dropped them fast!

[golftango]

Are the mowing procedures the same...same frequency, same height, still bagging/not bagging, etc...?

Yes, mower has been set on the same height for years. Same mowing patterns, using the bag, once a week.

[bug-guy]

looks like alot of time passed between before and after pics.
i bet those kids in photo 1 are driving now
the landscaping is way too different in the photos...
i have never seen a homeowner work hard to get his lawn to a great point to turn it over to a company
i have seen many get to a point where they started off good and were over their heads and called a company
i don't want to stick up for the big companies but i have heard so many.... my lawn look great until XYZ took over.
if things were going so great why change? i think things were set in motion and then a pro was called
ie crabgrass was coming in and i can't kill it

[ambersLawnmowing]

looks like alot of time passed between before and after pics.
i bet those kids in photo 1 are driving now
the landscaping is way too different in the photos...
i have never seen a homeowner work hard to get his lawn to a great point to turn it over to a company
i have seen many get to a point where they started off good and were over their heads and called a company
i don't want to stick up for the big companies but i have heard so many.... my lawn look great until XYZ took over.
if things were going so great why change? i think things were set in motion and then a pro was called
ie crabgrass was coming in and i can't kill it

Really???? You have never heard of a person "Customer" life change so they no longer have time to work in the yard? If that was the case i would have about half of the work i have now. I see alittle change in the landscapes but i couldnt tell if it was that long ago. People change there yards around here as much as they change there undies. You state that you dont want to stick up for Big Companies but it seems as though you are. I myself dont fert for my buss. I contract it out and let me tell you i have had the worse luck with TruGreen. It is all about them just doing it in Volume and giving the homeowner a little break in price, but they spray the same stuff for every lawn. Not all lawns are the same, they need to change for surtian lawns they completly killed 2 lawns on my route and i have since gotton the mowing and they told me to fert. So i contract it out to a buddy that is in the business. He is very detailed and has never killed a lawn. Trugreen is not the best at what they do but they have the best advertising around. If you want it done right then look at some of there work or talk to some customers they are out there. As for getting anything read the back of the contract or invoice it states about people's alwns that get damaged it says something like they are not liable but they are dont let that scare you go after them to Fix your lawn but reemember they will only make you WHOLE you will never be better then you where. Goodluck

[golftango]

looks like alot of time passed between before and after pics.
i bet those kids in photo 1 are driving now
the landscaping is way too different in the photos...
i have never seen a homeowner work hard to get his lawn to a great point to turn it over to a company
i have seen many get to a point where they started off good and were over their heads and called a company
i don't want to stick up for the big companies but i have heard so many.... my lawn look great until XYZ took over.
if things were going so great why change? i think things were set in motion and then a pro was called
ie crabgrass was coming in and i can't kill it

You're wrong. I purchased the home in 2004. The photos of the "party" were in 2006. I started using TG in 2007. Everytime a new week popped up after treatment, I called, they came out, retreated, etc. It is all documented.

[Newt*]

Golftango, you've already gotten advice about the lawn, so I won't repeat that. I would like to mention that it appears your tree has too much mulch piled against the trunk.
http://www.mortonarb.org/deeptreeroots/index.html
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/Garden/02926.html
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/trees_turf.aspx
http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/mulching.aspx

Newt

[Valk]

Everytime a new week popped up after treatment, I called, they came out, retreated, etc. It is all documented.

Are you saying they spot~treated these new weeds...or retreated the whole yard (fertilizer and all)?

IFF the latter is true, then your lawn may just be overtreated...plain and simple.
.02

[TScapes]

My $0.02 is to talk directly to the Branch Manager. He has the ultimate and final say in whether you will get any credit or repair work done on your lawn.

It also looks as though your lawn is on the small side, so I would think that he/she will more than likely just spray out the existing turf and then "Slit-seed" the turf. You will probably be better off this way. If they in fact treated your lawn from Round 1 on, you have a legitimate complaint, as it looks as though your lawn is full of crabgrass! However, as with every lawn care company, their product is the same.... but the service is only as good as the Tech that puts it down.

Push for them to kill out your lawn and just reseed it. Make sure that you get it in writting that they will guarantee your seeding. Give this as an option for them as opposed to having it sodded by a professional landscaper and sending them the bill. They will jump at the opportunity to reseed!

[mnturfmaster]

I hate to say it but good luck trying to get anything out of them. They have a great reputation for stuff like this. Go on the internet and look up consumer reports complaints on truegreen/chemlawn. You will be surprised what you find. Truegreen is good for one thing, sending me new customers every year. And we are probably twice the price of them, if not more.

[LarryF]

Golftango,

I doubt if you'll ever get satisfaction from TruGreen, but I appreciate the fact that you've let others know what happened. I hope the result will be that many others will never consider calling TruGreen. I'm a homeowner who prefers to do his own lawn work, so it's unlikely that I would have been a possible candidate to consider TruGreen. But after seeing those photos, I can assure you that now it will never happen. Seems to me that your only course of action is to kill everything including all the crabgrass and plant a new lawn for next year. You can do that by following the instructions provided in other threads in this forum or hire someone who knows what to do, has done it many times, and can show you examples of his success.

[hockeylvr]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that was watching their yard deteriorate quickly with Tru Green. I just cancelled my service. My favorite thing was watching the Tech complete my lawn analysis for both the front and backyards from his truck and then knock on my door and hand it to me as if he'd done a thorough walk around. It really is true that they just don't care if they do a good job. It's easy and quick money for them. Back to doing it myself.

[mngrassguy]

Please don't let their poor example reflect on the rest of us who truly do care about our customers lawns. If you get a bad meal in a restaurant, do you stop eating in restaurants? I hope you just never go back to the same place.

[LarryF]

Please don't let their poor example reflect on the rest of us who truly do care about our customers lawns. If you get a bad meal in a restaurant, do you stop eating in restaurants? I hope you just never go back to the same place.

Apparently it isn't just this one poor example that's reflecting. Here are dozens of other complaints about TruGreen.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/trugreen.html

And if any who are reading this have the patience to plow through all of them, there's a chance they might be blinded by the light. If you are a member of this TruGreen organization, mrgrassguy, and you truly do care about your customers' lawns, it sure seems like lot of your companion TruGreen operators aren't. What other explanation could there be for all of this reported dissatisfaction? I don't know about others, but I sure got the message.

[mngrassguy]

I agree with you Larry. I have known a few techs at TG that DO care but they are few and far between. My concern is with people who have a bad experience with them and think that you and I are the same way. I wouldn't have this many loyal customers if I didn't do my best job on their lawns everytime. We earn a living by providing the highest quality service possible, not by producing volume.

If I did something to a lawn like Golftango's I'd quit.

[mngrassguy]

Wait, I would fix it first, then quit.lol

[LarryF]

Wait, I would fix it first, then quit.lol

That seems like the decent thing to do, but it's not likely golftango's Trugreen guy will want to spend time and money on it. Buy the way, you seem to think I'm in some business related to this turf industry, but I though it was clear from my other posts that I'm on golftango's side of the fence, just another homeowner and have been on social security for a long time now. My Avatar showing the Exmark ZTR might have mislead you to think otherwise, but like most others who visit this forum, I like good tools.

[mngrassguy]

I just want to make it clear I do NOT work for TG nor do I care to defend them. I'm glad to hear you run good equipment. That tells me you truly care about your lawn!!!

[gosc123]

Is it the chemicals that they use, inappropriate usage of the chemicals, or unven application of the chemicals? As a kid my dad did our lawn. He wasn't a pro or anything, but it was never that bad.

[golftango]

Just wanted to give an update to my situation. I spoke with the Regional Manager, Chuck, and he said there was no way to prove that TG caused the damages. But, if I paid the amount due (I was holding pack one application payment until this was sorted) he would get someone out there to correct my weed problem. And once the fall comes, he will re-seed the dead spots. I got in writing (e-mail) that if my lawn is not improved with TGs services by next spring, they will be liable for the damages. So we will see...

[TScapes]

Just wanted to give an update to my situation. I spoke with the Regional Manager, Chuck, and he said there was no way to prove that TG caused the damages. But, if I paid the amount due (I was holding pack one application payment until this was sorted) he would get someone out there to correct my weed problem. And once the fall comes, he will re-seed the dead spots. I got in writing (e-mail) that if my lawn is not improved with TGs services by next spring, they will be liable for the damages. So we will see...

This is probably the best you can get from them. They are not admitting fault, however, they are willing to put forth the effort and money to keep you as a customer... er, make you happy.

My suggestion is to document EVERYTHING! Take pics before they seed, after they seed and the results of the seeding. This is only to cover your rear and for any legal documentation.

I hate that you have had this problem with TG, but as I said before, they are only as good as their techs. I have had the same problem with Scotts and Lawn Dr. However, I am sub-contracting my accounts to them simply bc I don't have the time or want the hassle of keeping up with the scheduling aspect of the apps. Everyone is different. I have had the best results with Lawn Dr. (in my region). However, their tech that did my accounts quit recently, and I can tell the difference in the quality of the service. I now have spurge, dandelions, and a couple of other broadleafs starting to come back in the turf. It simply goes to show my point about that your treatments are only as good as your techs. A good tech is rare, but one that cares in his quality.... not only quantity is a good find. They are out there, but unfortunately the guys that ghost or simply hurry through a yard are the ones that ruin it for everyone else.

[MarcSmith]

just tossing seed down wont be enough....make sure they put down the proper seed(fescue, blue or whether you have) and not some cheap rye. make sure they prepare the seed bed Ie tossing seeds on bare dirt wont do anything either, you'll get some germination, but not a lot.

[golftango]

Well, quick update. TG came and slit seeded my entire lawn in the fall. The new grass came in very nicely and all the bare spots are no more.

I told TG to bug off and I'm going back to Scott's four step and already winterized it. I'm be sure to give a good post-emergent crabgrass treatment in the spring and go from there. Thanks for everyone's insight and feedback.

[stressed]

Im glad to hear they took care of the new seeding at least.Now,questions for you,at what time of year did you start seeing the dying spots?Was it in midsummer?Was it a hot dry drought spell,cuz it was bad here in 07.If it was next time mow less and mow high(3" or higher)you have to shade the root.And also water frequently in drought situations.Another quetion,do you have a dog?That looks like a big dog usees the lawn as a urinal,dog urine will kill grass out quick.Looken at your pic of your after picture of your back lawn it appears to have a dogturd in it.Not saying thats what happened just given you some advise for next season.Its not grub damage i can tell that.Its one of these,dog spot,drought spot,or fertilizer burnThumbs Up

[golftango]

Im glad to hear they took care of the new seeding at least.Now,questions for you,at what time of year did you start seeing the dying spots?Was it in midsummer?Was it a hot dry drought spell,cuz it was bad here in 07.If it was next time mow less and mow high(3" or higher)you have to shade the root.And also water frequently in drought situations.Another quetion,do you have a dog?That looks like a big dog usees the lawn as a urinal,dog urine will kill grass out quick.Looken at your pic of your after picture of your back lawn it appears to have a dogturd in it.Not saying thats what happened just given you some advise for next season.Its not grub damage i can tell that.Its one of these,dog spot,drought spot,or fertilizer burnThumbs Up

Those are fertilizer burns IMHO. I have no dogs, nor do any of my neighbors. I do have a pine tree on my property, so the doo-doo is most likely a pinecone.

They slit seeded at the correct time, which was the early fall. I winterized (Scotts) the lawn mid-Oct. I water when necessary, and after the seeding I was watering once a day in the AM. I have set the mower to a 3" height for next year, but all the damage was TrueGreen.

[stressed]

Those are fertilizer burns IMHO. I have no dogs, nor do any of my neighbors. I do have a pine tree on my property, so the doo-doo is most likely a pinecone.

They slit seeded at the correct time, which was the early fall. I winterized (Scotts) the lawn mid-Oct. I water when necessary, and after the seeding I was watering once a day in the AM. I have set the mower to a 3" height for next year, but all the damage was TrueGreen.

sounds good to me:drinkup:

[Valk]

Established turf will do quite well with one deep watering/week...& that should increase to twice/week when conditions are stressful due to heat and drought.

Overwatering in frequency helps to support shallow rooting as the turf will essentially get lazy and stay shallow rooted. Kind of like welfare, huh! :laugh:

[Woody82986]

Funny story... A client of mine asked what I thought of Trugreen. I simply told him I never have and never would recommend them to anyone I know based upon not only things I have heard here, but things I have witnessed their techs do (or not do). So 3 weeks later, what do Isee in the lawn but a Trugreen marker. So I called my client and just told him to be careful and watch the tech like a hawk. He says okay... okay. So about 6 weeks or so later, I happen to pull up to this clients house and see the Trugreen guy getting out of his truck to spread some fertilizer. I drive by the house pretty slowly like I'm headed down the block to another house. He grabs his spreader, pours about 2 pounds worth of fertilizer in the spreader and starts walking around the front lawn 100mph. Keep in mind this lawn is well over an acre. So I turn around in time to watch him run out of fert at the end of the first pass and he just keeps going! Pass after pass with absolutely nothing in the spreader. So I park and I walk up to him right after he gets to the back yard... with nothing in his spreader.He starts walking and I holler at him to ask him what he thinks he is doing. He says he's fertilizing. So I ask how he thinks he is fertilizing with nothing in the spreader. He looks down and says, "Oh, I guess I just ran out. Thanks for catching that." Keep in mind he's maybe treated 2,000 sq ft of the acre+ property with actual fertilizer. I call him out on it and he denies it. So he goes back to his truck. Empties the rest of the bag in the spreader and goes and does the back yard and hurries up and leaves. I took pictures of the areas he missed in the front lawn and I called and told him what had happened. He told me he'd call and get it sorted out with Trugreen. 2 days later I got an e-mail from my client that said Trugreen refunded his money for the treatments he had already gotten because that tech already had 2 complaints on him alleging the same thing that I had witnessed. I don't think he works there anymore... Just one personal story about Trugreen I thought I'd share.

[NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC]

Good Story, that really doesn't surprise me, I have a neighbor who uses TruGreen and her lawn really looks horrible, as if it were never fertilized, LOL. I guess that's one thing you can't defend against is an employee who doesn't care, but I guess we can't totally blame Trugreen, because I've seen some yards done by them that look incredible, so I wonder if those yards that look horrible are employee's matching your story?

[Chilehead]

Here's what you can do to "motivate" TruGreen. Send them a letter via certified mail stating that if they don't remedy the damage/reimburse you, that you will file a formal complaint with the Federal Trade Commision, as well as your local state's trade commission. Also indicate that you will notify the consumer action lines at all of your local news stations, and will show them pictures of the damage and that you will persuade them to air the pictures/complaint. Then threaten to boycott in front of one of their locations. Write down all of this in the letter. Clearly state a deadline that you demand satisfaction. If not met, commence with exposing them to the above mentioned authorities. Good luck.

[thomsoutdoor]

I am not defending TG thats for sure but the one thing that I have noticed is that is an awful lot of crabgrass for just one year. Crabgrass likes compact soil and it located through out the lawn and not just near the sidewalks and driveway. Tells me that , like your pictures, you have a lot of traffic , parties kids playing etc. They may have been weak on the pre emergent applications and got caught playing catch up.

[GreenmanCT]

Its funny reading all this, since i worked out of that branch. I wouldnt put this on the tech, Antoine has worked there more then 10 years and knows and cares what hes doing. You must remember that in 2007 there was a drought and lawns suffered because of it. I know in Manchester there was even a lawn watering ban.If you didnt seed in the spring, you cant expect that stuff to recover. Also the ground looks really compacted from the pictures. When was the last time you aerated? May have even cut it to short while it was stressed out.

[Marcos]

Today is December 15th.
10 days until Christmas...
A cold front is on its way to Ohio, with snow in the forecast.
(And snow is still on the ground, in isolated places.)

Trugreen Chemlawn pulled up to one of our nearby neighbor's house as I was getting Saturday's mail out of the community mailbox.
As I walked by, I smiled & politely asked him: "What is it that you apply this late in the year"?
Half startled, he grunted, "uh...this, straight potassium", as he whipped out an empty plastic bag of 0-0-46 to show me.

He then drove off, leaving the neighbor's driveway & sidewalk covered with a noticeable "film" of potassium prills.

I just continued walking toward my house slowly shaking my head, realizing that my neighbor, sadly, had just gotten a better value with ice melt than he did with lawn fertilizer! :cry:

[JMiller08]

Today is December 15th.
10 days until Christmas...
A cold front is on its way to Ohio, with snow in the forecast.
(And snow is still on the ground, in isolated places.)

Trugreen Chemlawn pulled up to one of our nearby neighbor's house as I was getting Saturday's mail out of the community mailbox.
As I walked by, I smiled & politely asked him: "What is it that you apply this late in the year"?
Half startled, he grunted, "uh...this, straight potassium", as he whipped out an empty plastic bag of 0-0-46 to show me.

He then drove off, leaving the neighbor's driveway & sidewalk covered with a noticeable "film" of potassium prills.

I just continued walking toward my house slowly shaking my head, realizing that my neighbor, sadly, had just gotten a better value with ice melt than he did with lawn fertilizer! :cry:

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::hammerhead::hammerhead:

[lawntec2r]

Of course considering i work for a XYZ i have to agree, I meet alot of people and deal with alot of issues "turf & attitude" When I take on someones lawn care they have to
understand it is a team effort. For one I do have some lawns that look terrable, but I can tell you they were not my fault communication is a big part of the program both ways. Right now i am dealing with alot of root rot & a warm winter has causd the mole crickets to become active. In a short time they do alot of damage and especally with centipede grass it takes time to rebuild. Where i am at we also have Bermuda, st.aug & zoysia as the popular turfs.
centipede is the cheapest turf so that is what is use in new construction. It is a very weak type of turf, it needs to reseed its self to survive for more than a few years. being cut happy will make it desintigrate over time if not grown out for the seeds. establishment is an ugly prossess due to parts that do not take, it is almost enevitable that it will look bad for a while because of slow growth. I have written warnings about gutterless homes, moles, mole crickets low areas that retain water causing root rot or fungus issues with the reply that it will be taken care of then come back to a lawn i don't want to put my name on it has happened more times than you could believe, then expect me or my company to do the repairs on it when it has been documented for 3,4,5 applications then start to slander my work to everyone because they are mad. Guess what i am too. Honestly i could make my money selling insecticides ,fungicides or fire ant treatments to who can or will buy them to make a buck, Or i can (try "if there is team work" ) to make your neighbor jelous and sell full programs and make good money then when i have alot of stops in small areas i hit my goals earlier in the day and go home earlier with more money do to getting more work done instead of driving around to get from house to house. Which would you do? i take alot of pride in my name and my work. show me teamwork i'll stop over to help you with it off the clock because i want the lawn bette than any you can see from it.if you make a percentage of what you sell do you want to sell a fire ant treatment for your goal or a full program.With any brains you will invest the time to make the results best they can be depending on soil type, sod job, land levelness, client cooperation, season ,traffic lawn damaging issues (insects, animals digging for food tunneling, fungus an other factors . And do it 20 to 30 times a day 10 to 15 miles on foot pushing a spreader with 80 lbs of fert or dragging the hose to the end of the property which gets to be "my estamate is done from being an atv guy and pushing broken ones out of the trails" close to 600 lb mabie more. especially whenit is 110 or so. Any way if you have done the job you know how it is and if you haven't give it a shot getting 500+ people to do the same practices all year is a blast an dwhen you pull up to a bad lawn it is an instant migrain because you know the potencal to sell neighbors is gone. have a great new year and stop turf damage before its bad. good night

[lawntec2r]

Don't waste your time with the higher-ups at TG. Branch Mgr is the best you can get anything from. What are you asking them to do? What are they saying happened? Deal with one person there, pref the Branch Mgr, not the kids/girls who answer the phone. Look for names on the invoices and ask to speak to them personaly. Most important...BE CALM. Ask for a soil test, renovation at no charge. Good luck. Keep us up to date.

This is actually what i was agreeing with " good advise" I've had corporate send me notes about my clients complaints and had no contact to my office for me (which can be direct to me now) with our company/personal(mostly company)phones. No one likes the boss asking for answers why a client isn't happy. I do care about the turf i treat i am an honest person that likes happy people and like i was saying my goal is to have happy neighborhoods . I do apoligize if i came off in a bad mannor, but as for many life is just not smooth right now. i hope that everyone gets the results that they deserve and the negative comments that give me headaches i see everywhere cease to exist because it is easy ot cause fear of the new & hard to gain trust.Happy to say i have done well in that and it will not change. The times are changing and lawncare is evolving. Hope it helps you all. Have a good night all.

[hustler king]

I have been working with tru green for a few years and they have been handaling most of all my accounts. I have had nothing but success with them in fact ive had the oppurtunity for several hoa sign 3 to 4 year contracts. If you work with a company get to know whos doing the work. Build a professinal relationship. Ask the right questions and youll be surprised on what happens from there on out.

[Bru75]

I worked for Trugreen for about four years. Our lawns didn't look like that, except during severe drought conditions in '98 and '99.
I remember hearing a lot of complaints about the corporate owned branches, but I worked for a franchise with the owner as the manager. This makes a difference because he had a real stake in the business as opposed to a branch manager hired by the company.
I am no longer affiliated with Trugreen, so I have no reason to defend them, just an observation.
And, yes, I did care about the customers.
It's been a while, but if i remember correctly, we used 46-0-0 in late fall, high nitrogen.

[NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC]

I worked for Trugreen for about four years. Our lawns didn't look like that, except during severe drought conditions in '98 and '99.
I remember hearing a lot of complaints about the corporate owned branches, but I worked for a franchise with the owner as the manager. This makes a difference because he had a real stake in the business as opposed to a branch manager hired by the company.
I am no longer affiliated with Trugreen, so I have no reason to defend them, just an observation.
And, yes, I did care about the customers.
It's been a while, but if i remember correctly, we used 46-0-0 in late fall, high nitrogen.

What would be the purpose of a high Nitrogen fertilizer right before the soil temps drop and the grass goes into dormancy?? I could see a 0-0-46 as a winterizer, and please correct me if my logic is incorrect?

[Bru75]

What would be the purpose of a high Nitrogen fertilizer right before the soil temps drop and the grass goes into dormancy?? I could see a 0-0-46 as a winterizer, and please correct me if my logic is incorrect?

Like I said, it's been a while, and I haven't done lawn maintenance for almost ten years. I'm pretty sure that is what we used, though. I can't help you with the science behind it, we got our marching orders from the boss and applied what we were told.
I'll check with one of my friends who still works there and let you know.
Anyway, I'm not defending the whole company, just saying that at my particular branch we had much better results than the subject of this thread.

[NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC]

Yeah, I agree totally, no one can really blame Trugreen, it really comes down to the staff, I mean how many times have we gone to Wendy's or McDonald's and had just crappy service, but it doesn't stop us from going back.

[Bru75]

Yeah, I agree totally, no one can really blame Trugreen, it really comes down to the staff, I mean how many times have we gone to Wendy's or McDonald's and had just crappy service, but it doesn't stop us from going back.

My point exactly.

[Valk]

Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Even though top-growth has decreased or stopped in late Fall it's my understanding that the roots are still actively up-taking nitrogen until the soil temps drop to true Winter dormancy levels. Quick release types are preferred at this time...and provide for a quicker green-up in Spring.

[NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC]

I'm not real sure on the science of it, but isn't the Autumn blends coated differently to have a slower release over the winter cool season without the risks of premature or excessive release common to other fertilizers?

I'm sure there's a fertilizer expert on this site that can jump in and give us the precise information.

[Marcos]

Please correct me if I'm wrong...
Even though top-growth has decreased or stopped in late Fall it's my understanding that the roots are still actively up-taking nitrogen until the soil temps drop to true Winter dormancy levels. Quick release types are preferred at this time...and provide for a quicker green-up in Spring.

And please, Valk, don't forget to emphasize that those el-cheapo quick-release N's used in late fall are absolutely notorious for their track records of inspiring early to mid-season disease problems in finer-bladed turf, particularly dollar spot and brown patch!!!

You are 100% correct in that the roots take up N in late fall.
The rates of between 1 to 1 1/2# of N/ 1000 sq ft during the periods of late October thru early December are typically used here in the Midwest, by people who use 46-0-0.

Potential problems are:
Applied closer to early October- the more chance of late summer burning, and/or unneccessary surge growth due to (unforeseen) indian summer.

Applied too late (early December)- A certain % of the N is indeed taken up by root system (assuming it isn't frozen :cry:). The rest of it is washed into the storm sewers, or into the groundwater table.

The following spring....the turf emerging from dormancy reacts with a vengeance because of the super-dose of N in it's roots.
The cell walls within each individual grass plant wall expand, e-x-p-a-n-d and e--x--p--a--n--d at such a rapid rate, that other supporting "reinforcing" nutrients cannot keep up the pace!
What happens? :confused:
These cell walls begin to EXPLODE at the easiest of provocations, sometimes with no provocation at all! (Envision balloons inflated to the max, ready to pop!)
Indeed, it is the simple chemical process of osmosis that, in these instances, enables disease pathogens to enter "exploding" cell walls, with the helping hand of .... WATER!

This is precisely why a heavy lawn mower's tires will often spread brown patch around a lawn in mid summer, like peanut butter on bread.
In these "perfect" conditions for the brown patch pathogen, heavy ZTR tires will crush grass cell walls en masse.
But if you'd mow in the evening, when b.p. conditions are no longer.... "perfect", seldom will you have the same magnitude of problem!

[golftango]

Just wanted to give an update. Last fall TruGreen came out and slit seeded my lawn. I started using the Scott's 4-step products with great results. So here are some new before and after photos.

Last summer from Google Street View Maps:
http://home.cshore.com/wlombardi/Lawn.jpg

And now from this morning (sorry, crappy cell phone photo):
http://home.cshore.com/wlombardi/Lawn2.jpg

No more crabgrass, or weeds. So I have learned my lesson, stay away from TruGreen and stick to fertilizing it yourself!

[Newt*]

Golftango, it's looking so much better... except for that 'tree coffin' you have going. You might want to review my post on page 2 of this thread.

Thanks for the pics and update.

Newt

[golftango]

Golftango, it's looking so much better... except for that 'tree coffin' you have going. You might want to review my post on page 2 of this thread.

Thanks for the pics and update.

Newt

Interesting. I've had no problem with the tree in question; actually, it has really grown in the last three years. My father-in-law has pretty much the same set up for his cherry blossom trees too and has experienced no issues either.

[mowerdude777]

LOoks amazing, all I will use is the scotts 4 step program

[GreenmanCT]

hey golf tango, since you are in manchester, might as well give you a free quote for mowing, 35 a cut, let me know when i can start!

[golftango]

GreenmanCT, if times weren't so tough, I would say yes. Here are some additional photos. Those are not brown spots, but the sun reflecting through the trees.

http://home.cshore.com/wlombardi/Lawn3.jpg
http://home.cshore.com/wlombardi/Lawn4.jpg
http://home.cshore.com/wlombardi/Lawn5.jpg

And again, to recap, here are the before photos:
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterBack.JPG
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterSide.JPG
http://members.cox.net/wlombardi529/AfterSide2.JPG

[GreenmanCT]

Well your lawn is defineatly looking good, keep it up.

[tinman]

Trugreen is a large company that must be bureaucratic. I usually hear negative things from my mowing clients about them. But most everyone uses them since they are good marketers

[pharr1s]

the problem you are having is you need to reseed areas. that picture just shows the treatments do work to be honest. all dead crabgrass areas need to be reseeded..also nutsedge will do the same

[Branch manager]

As a landscaper/arborist, I don't mow/treat lawns. However, a few years ago, a LCO I know told me he witnessed the following. A TruGreen truck was stopped at a house near where he was mowing. He saw the applicator ring the doorbell, and nobody answered. He then proceeded to walk around the perimeter of property, placing the required notice flags/markers, get in his truck and leave! He noted number on truck and called the head office. Where it went after that, who knows...Again, some shmuck gives everybody in the business a blackeye. That occurs throughout our industry.

[LewisLawn]

two lawns i take care of have been treated by tru-green for several seasons. the one yard is weed free because the grass is so thick no lace for the weeds to take root....however the soil is so rich nasty clumps of various sorts of mushrooms are taking over. I had a neighbor also tell me that on several instances he has seen the truck come to the neighbors and place flags in the yard and drive off...that made me recall the days when I saw younger and we would come home and know the fertilizer company was there...little white balls all over the yard...now today before I mow it is not uncommon to see the tire tracks the fert comp made since I was last there....but it is much harder to tell with the companies that just spray from a hose and reel on a truck....
also on these yards if i mow too short they are the first to burn out

[ron mexico75]

Wow this thread is great. I have had NUMEROUS people tell me how unhappy they were with TruGreen and how their weed problem actually increased after using them. I actually picked up a customer who's entire lawn was crabgrass and bare. They fired TruGreen and brought me on in early August. I eradicated all of the crabgrass within about 10 days. Some Tru Green rep had sprayed for over a month....or so they said.

After I had gotten rid of all the crabgrass a salesman from TruGreen came back to them asking for them to come back. They said; do you see any crabgrass? He said; no, it's all gone. They said we had a guy spray and within 10 days he did what you could not do in over a month. His response was; well, you have to be gentle with nature.:confused: :confused:

These people now have "green carpet" for grass thanks to me and everybody says they can't believe what I was able to do with the mess they had. I swear, that TruGreen just blankets the whole neighborhood with door to door reps and you can tell several weeks later who signed up with them because the lawns don't look any better. Sometimes even worse.

I have to admit, I worked for them for 3 whole days. It was the biggest, most unorganized place I had ever seen. It was all about how fast you moved and how many you got done. No quality at all, just hurry and mark it as serviced.

The "training" program was watching a DVD which was very broad in what it taught. Most of the guys that worked there were more concerned with finishing their routes early so they could get home. I mean, you had to be there at 7am and gone no later then 7:30. The faster you finished the faster you got to go home. Why take pride in your work or pay any attention to what you're doing if you just want to get off the clock? Guys that worked there had no idea what they were spreading, spraying or even looking for. Just spread what the manager told you was on your truck and do it as fast as you could.

Those stories that I read about empty spreaders and just sticking flags in the ground without doing anything are based on what I just typed above. The faster you finish the sooner you can go home. If your name isn't on the work then why care? It's TruGreens name. That's what I gathered in the very short time I was there. Doesn't take long to see that.

[Marcos]

Wow this thread is great. I have had NUMEROUS people tell me how unhappy they were with TruGreen and how their weed problem actually increased after using them. I actually picked up a customer who's entire lawn was crabgrass and bare. They fired TruGreen and brought me on in early August. I eradicated all of the crabgrass within about 10 days. Some Tru Green rep had sprayed for over a month....or so they said.

After I had gotten rid of all the crabgrass a salesman from TruGreen came back to them asking for them to come back. They said; do you see any crabgrass? He said; no, it's all gone. They said we had a guy spray and within 10 days he did what you could not do in over a month. His response was; well, you have to be gentle with nature.:confused: :confused:

These people now have "green carpet" for grass thanks to me and everybody says they can't believe what I was able to do with the mess they had.

I'm not going to argue with you about TGCL. :waving:

Just curious, ron mexico, exactly what steps did you take to go about turning around a piece of ground that was "entirely crabgrass and bare" and turn it into a "green carpet" in such a short period of time? :confused:

[LarryF]

I'm not going to argue with you about TGCL. :waving:

Just curious, ron mexico, exactly what steps did you take to go about turning around a piece of ground that was "entirely crabgrass and bare" and turn it into a "green carpet" in such a short period of time? :confused:

Ditto! I'd like to hear about that too. I think thousands of others might want to as well.

[ron mexico75]

I'm not going to argue with you about TGCL. :waving:

Just curious, ron mexico, exactly what steps did you take to go about turning around a piece of ground that was "entirely crabgrass and bare" and turn it into a "green carpet" in such a short period of time? :confused:

Ancient Chinese secret :laugh:











Seriously, I sprayed 2 apps of MSMA. Killed the crabgrass like a sniper taking a head shot on one of those Somalian pirates!:laugh: Waited until the second weekend in September and scalped the remaining grass that was salvageable. I then aerated double...no, actually triple pass. I had delivered and spread a top soil compost turf mix, used a grading rake and filled in the aerating holes and spread the rest in the low/bare areas. Spread sol-u-cal, a good starter fert. and heavily spread the best seed you can buy around here. I then took a leaf rake and gently went over the entire yard to mix in the seed with the soil and cover it slightly.

I advised the customer to water 3 times a day for ten minutes each time for 12 days and to NOT ever let it get dry, just keep it damp like a sponge. Then once the seedlings appeared cut it down to morning and late afternoon for another 7 to 10 days. Once the seedlings were very visible cut down to once a day. I had them wait for 3 weeks before they cut. After that I put down another round of starter fert.at the 3 week mark. Now around Nov 22 a winterizer will be applied. I really take pride in my work so that's why it turned out so good. The irrigation also played a big roll too. This is a home daycare and the lady told me all the parents are in total awe and she gives my name out to everyone of them who inquires. And that's all she wrote! :laugh: :drinkup:

[LouisianaLawnboy]

Call the local paper.
Posted via Mobile Device

[rob7233]

Trugreen is a large company that must be bureaucratic. I usually hear negative things from my mowing clients about them. But most everyone uses them since they are good marketers

Yes, they are a marketing company that happens to do lawn care.
Low prices equals production based companies. The techs are poorly trained and encouraged to go as fast as you can in order to move up in the company. More lawns mean more $$ for the techs. I know they have short sprayed lawns in order to do side jobs for cash on their way back to the shop.
My mother was this type of "customer" till I found out. No rotation of chemical families contributing to resistant chinch bugs in my area. Find a reputable independent that builds their business on quality not the low price points of some troubled competitors. Pay more to get more!

[ron mexico75]

Yes, they are a marketing company that happens to do lawn care.
Low prices equals production based companies. The techs are poorly trained and encouraged to go as fast as you can in order to move up in the company. More lawns mean more $$ for the techs. I know they have short sprayed lawns in order to do side jobs for cash on their way back to the shop.
My mother was this type of "customer" till I found out. No rotation of chemical families contributing to resistant chinch bugs in my area. Find a reputable independent that builds their business on quality not the low price points of some troubled competitors. Pay more to get more!


Hey you got it right with that one! I said the same thing above and that was after working for them for 3 days. Fast fast fast fast!!!!!! No training, just a dvd you watch after filling out paper work. Then its hurry up, get going!!!!

[rob7233]

To be fair... After 3 years with them Ron, did they do anything right for the customer except to sign them up?

[ron mexico75]

To be fair... After 3 years with them Ron, did they do anything right for the customer except to sign them up?


Not sure what you're referring to. I worked for them for 3 days and that's all I needed to see.

In addition to that, how many people like them? Not sure because people are only going to post about bad experiences or complaints. Maybe it's the people that keep them are the ones who have no clue about lawns. Therefore, they have have no idea they are getting ripped off or what a good healthy lawn looks like in comparison to a mediocre lawn.

[rob7233]

Sorry Ron, I misread your previous post. Wow, 3 days is all it took and you were out of there! Regarding HO who use them. I guess with the low price they are really hoping it will work out for them. Most of them don't count on being up sold continually. "You don't know, what you don't know" applies here and some will never learn. Kind of reminds me of a sign I saw in a biz once:

Pick any Two:

You want it fast.

You want it good.

You want it cheap.

(Just two is all you can have)

[piste]

Being as you take pride in your lawn...do it yourself....no one will do it better if you are serious about it. Not TruGreen ...not anyone. Some may do it AS WELL as you ...but you'll pay through the nose and they are a needle in a haystack. And it's just not all that hard...more a matter of do you have the time to do it and the ability to do a little research which is pretty easy in this age of the internets and all...Good luck.