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americanlawn
08-01-2008, 06:11 PM
With the increased cost of P & K, several large fertilizer manufacturers are developing fert formulations that delete P & K. One example is a 50% slow release nitrogen product with full strength pre-emergent. Another is a 50-0-0 slow release. Seems the venders are trying everything they can to help us out.

Anybody else hear this news yet? Thanks. :usflag:

ICT Bill
08-01-2008, 08:03 PM
they are not helping you out they are being compliant with State laws

Florida has a N ban on until the end of September, Maryland and WI has banned P, etc, etc, etc

Believe me every fert company out there is scared to death right now, what if.......... providing fertilization to a customer becomes as expensive as a monthly Hummer payment???

You got it

group501
08-01-2008, 08:53 PM
they are not helping you out they are being compliant with State laws

Florida has a N ban on until the end of September, Maryland and WI has banned P, etc, etc, etc

Believe me every fert company out there is scared to death right now, what if.......... providing fertilization to a customer becomes as expensive as a monthly Hummer payment???

You got it

I agree and disagree with your above statement. I think that our suppliers are all too aware that the high fert prices are hurting alot of lco's and that everyone is price shopping their fert purchases like never before. I think that in an attempt to come in at a low enough price to secure our business our suppliers are being more creative in their formulations. That being said, I know that there have been some pretty restrictive regulations passed. Being located in Rockland County, NY we have to comply with some laws and restrictions that really complicate our business.

RigglePLC
08-01-2008, 09:22 PM
I never heard of a 50-0-0, I thought the maximum you could get was 46-0-0 (quick release). Of course you can always get anhydrous amonia at 82 percent n.

ted putnam
08-02-2008, 12:28 AM
My local Lesco came in with a 30-0-10 25% scu this year at a much lower price. However, with the recent increases it's within $1-3 of the 2 other staples in their line here 32-3-8 and 28-3-10....Hmmmm, let's see, should I pay $920/ton or $1000/ton. Not that big of a difference when you're talkin that kinda money. It does make a person want to cry to think last October I was payng $560/ton. Hummer payment or Lawncare...I wonder which my customers will choose?

Grandview
08-02-2008, 08:07 AM
Florida has a N ban on until the end of September, Maryland and WI has banned P, etc, etc, etc
You got it

Wisconsin has not banned P yet. Some proposals have been made but nothing statewide has gone through that I am aware of.

PHS
08-02-2008, 08:41 AM
they are not helping you out they are being compliant with State laws

It's nice that you have so much faith in the government and in some areas that's true that the changes are government mandated but by and large the free market responds much much faster than the government does and these changes are market induced. Within 6 months of cost increases they're responding with reformulations.

Hopefully if the price of nutrients stays up the overapplication of P and others will correct itself without the gov't getting involved. I'm glad they're around to look out for the environment but when it comes to trying to legislate corrections it usually ends up in a clusterF.

Real Green
08-02-2008, 09:30 AM
they are not helping you out they are being compliant with State laws

Florida has a N ban on until the end of September, Maryland and WI has banned P, etc, etc, etc

Believe me every fert company out there is scared to death right now, what if.......... providing fertilization to a customer becomes as expensive as a monthly Hummer payment???

You got it

Well if we were providing organics, it would cost as much as monthly Hummer payment!

:rolleyes: ITC Bill, you are in a forum for chemical applications. Just havin' fun with you, you asked for it! Haha. Take care.

ICT Bill
08-02-2008, 09:49 AM
Well if we were providing organics, it would cost as much as monthly Hummer payment!

ITC Bill, you are in a forum for chemical applications. Just havin' fun with you, you asked for it! Haha. Take care. no problems, we are registered as a fertilizer and have to go through the same compliance scenario's as everyone else, the bureaucracy is ...... well bureaucracy

A little off topic and I will stop here,
Spring of 2006 the USDA, USGA with EPA released a 6 year study on the source water that municipalities were pulling water from, it came back with some pretty stunning numbers, anyway the EPA said to the state regulators "you had better do something about this or we are going to step in federally"

As a result we are beginning to see states putting more and more restrictions on pesticides and nutrients
http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/2006/3028/ It says 2001 but was updated in Jan 2008

I am offically off my soapbox

heritage
08-02-2008, 12:34 PM
With the increased cost of P & K, several large fertilizer manufacturers are developing fert formulations that delete P & K. One example is a 50% slow release nitrogen product with full strength pre-emergent. Another is a 50-0-0 slow release. Seems the venders are trying everything they can to help us out.

Anybody else hear this news yet? Thanks. :usflag:

American,

This spring season, I formulated 100% slow release 44-0-0 into a "Custom Blend" I determined.

The product is 46-0-0 polymer coated, using "Polyon" technology.

Since the coating is "Thinner" than SCU coating, you get the 44% insted of the 38%.

What I really liked about the 44-0-0, is that is is very consistant with it's release pattern over 12 weeks through "Diffusion".

It is used by farmers on Corn and Wheat, that require N consistantly thru maturity.

They call the product ESN, or Enviornmentally Stable Nitrogen.


Mabey we can get a bunch of us together, and start a co/op of our own?

We would ALL benifit from bulk savings AND not one of us would be allowed to profit from the idea otherwise.

Also I suggest we only do this for 1 or 2 Rounds per season, so our "Suppliers" don't ofset our savings, by increasing costs of other products we like from them.

Your Thoughts,

Pete

FdLLawnMan
08-02-2008, 04:51 PM
they are not helping you out they are being compliant with State laws

Florida has a N ban on until the end of September, Maryland and WI has banned P, etc, etc, etc

Believe me every fert company out there is scared to death right now, what if.......... providing fertilization to a customer becomes as expensive as a monthly Hummer payment???

You got it

First of all, they are helping us out by reformulating the fertilizers. The habit of applying P & K on soils that already have enough is just down right silly and not agronomically sound.

Second, Wisconsin does not have a ban on phosphorous, only Dane county does. It is being talked about but is at least a year or two away.

What is most upsetting is that the vast majority of phosphorous loading comes from construction and agriculture, not lawn fertilizers.

americanlawn
08-03-2008, 03:28 PM
Pete -- sounds like a great idea. We sell to a few smaller LCO's that do work for us....they buy fert cheaper from us cuz they would pay more since they purchase smaller quantities.

FdLawn -- ditto.

UAP has recently confirmed new and more efficient formulatioins of fert in order to stay competitive. (in writing) My local John Deere rep says they will be doing something very similar.

Bottom line, we'll all be price shopping.

heritage
08-03-2008, 07:56 PM
Pete -- sounds like a great idea. We sell to a few smaller LCO's that do work for us....they buy fert cheaper from us cuz they would pay more since they purchase smaller quantities.

FdLawn -- ditto.

UAP has recently confirmed new and more efficient formulatioins of fert in order to stay competitive. (in writing) My local John Deere rep says they will be doing something very similar.

Bottom line, we'll all be price shopping.

Good stuff.

Seems like we always neet to stay ahead of the Strategy Curve, in order to do well in this business Larry.

I am thinking of a better way, every day.

The ESN 44-0-0 is an awesome product......Look into it.

Pete

coiclawn
08-04-2008, 03:47 PM
Fla. has not banned N. Some municipalities have but none in my area.

ICT Bill
08-04-2008, 09:44 PM
I swear Bill Cox told me there was an N ban, I cannot find the information though, here is all I found and it is local, I'll call him tomorrow

"The council applauds the growing number of communities that have enacted laws restricting the amount of, and periods when, fertilizers containing itrogen and phosphorus can be applied. The two nutrients cannot be used from June 1 through Sept. 30 in order to limit the amount of runoff that occurs during heavy rains or irrigation. Lee County enacted a strict fertilizer ordinance in midMay, joining Sarasota County, Naples, Longboat Key and Sanibel Island."

3 years ago could you have imagined buying a bag of 0-0-16 +8, you would have laughed

http://www.florikan.com/download_docs/Summer%20Safe%20SLC.pdf

cecropia11
11-28-2011, 11:23 AM
heritage

what rate do you put the ESN down at per 1000ft. I can get ESN for around 18 dollars per 50lbs through crop productions service where I live, does it keep grass greener longer than strait 46 urea, also from what I know, it is so post to last for 60 to 80 days for corn is that about what you found for turf grass.

CHARLES CUE
11-28-2011, 09:40 PM
With the increased cost of P & K, several large fertilizer manufacturers are developing fert formulations that delete P & K. One example is a 50% slow release nitrogen product with full strength pre-emergent. Another is a 50-0-0 slow release. Seems the venders are trying everything they can to help us out.

Anybody else hear this news yet? Thanks. :usflag:

So who has the 50%slow release fert with pre emergent. I have read about fert like this but no one carry's any thing like this. I would think that every one has seen fert like 30-0-0 no P K. May be some push from Gov and tree huggers but also a push for cheaper fert with less product and more filler to lessen the cost.

some of the syfi product have no P K and have pre emergent but they are 95% slow release.

Charles Cue o well this went to the wrong thread

DA Quality Lawn & YS
11-29-2011, 12:35 AM
Wouldn't bother me to see more N-0-0 products. MN doesn't do P now anyway, and K Potash is pretty tighly bound in our clay soil here, so the need for either of those macros is few and far in between.