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1998tahoe
08-01-2008, 11:18 PM
My dealer talked me into gettin the Stihl Ultra oil today when I got my NEW FS90. IS the oil that good. I always run the Stihl HP before.


Whats the difference???

AmsoilPower
08-01-2008, 11:25 PM
My dealer talked me into gettin the Stihl Ultra oil today when I got my NEW FS90. IS the oil that good. I always run the Stihl HP before.


Whats the difference???

Stihl Ultra is only rated JASO FB while Amsoil is rated JASO FD. Check out my thread I have going regarding the two in comparson. The Amsoil prices are now incorrect due to a new pricing effective today, but you get the idea. Amsoil is still cheaper.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=239907

eblankenship
08-01-2008, 11:27 PM
I hope to see a response to your question, I bought a BR600 today (for 429.00!!!) and my dealer to suggested I get the Stihl ultra grade. Whats up with two different oils??

jsf343
08-01-2008, 11:33 PM
others may know more on this subject, but here are my observations for what its worth.

1. it smokes much less
2. exhaust screen doesn't plug with the ultra oil
3. actually seems to run smoother and more consistent

I know it is only 3 observations but they are all big in my eyes and in my opinion makes it worth buying. Don't get me wrong the old oil isn't overly bad, I just see more benefits from the ultra.

Jeff

Herrick
08-01-2008, 11:34 PM
ultra (white bottle) is fully synthetic, while the other(black bottle) is only partially, and the orange bottle is regular dyno oil.

AmsoilPower
08-01-2008, 11:34 PM
I hope to see a response to your question, I bought a BR600 today (for 429.00!!!) and my dealer to suggested I get the Stihl ultra grade. Whats up with two different oils??

The 4 mixes run a little cooler and don't quite burn a regular 2-cycle oil well enough to prevent carbon build. Add that to the fact that a regular 2-cycle oil (Stihl HP) is prone to carbon buildup over time spells trouble for the little valves in those 4 mixes. You want a 2-cycle oil that does not cause carbon buildup!!!!

jfme
12-08-2008, 12:04 PM
I found some interesting literature on the HP Ultra oil. Stihl did a 500 hour engine test and compare it to other oils (although it does not say what brand they are) The Hp Ultra seems to keep the engine internals pretty clean.

http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.pdf

The one interesting thing I found by looking at the MSDS of different oils was their flash point:

HP Ultra 220C (428 F)
http://www.stihllibrary.com/pdf/msds/Stihl_HP_Ultra.pdf

Amsoil Saber Professional 114 C (237 F)
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atp.aspx

Mobil 1 Racing 2T 110 C (230 F)
http://www.mobil.com/Australia-English/Lubes/PDS/glxxenpvlmomobil1_racing_2t.pdf

Echo Power Blend Two-Cycle 68 C (154 F)
http://www.echo-usa.com/pdf/documentation/50to1Oil_062707.pdf

Since the HP Ultra has the highest flash point temperature, it seems to me it has great temperature resistance.

qualitylandscaping
12-08-2008, 12:39 PM
We run Ultra in our newer 2cycles. Remember to mix with a higher octane fuel, to get the best results.

karlgrooms
12-08-2008, 02:18 PM
I switched to Amsoil this fall and it seems my equipment doesn't mind. The ultra is great oil but I can get the Amsoil for about half the price. All my equipment get the same 100 to 1 mix and they all run great. The full synthetic mixes (Stihl ultra and Amsoil sabre) seem to perform to their billing, as all my equipment seems to have a little more pep since switching.

J.Gordon
12-08-2008, 02:24 PM
Stihl Ultra is a very good oil from what I have read about it. I think Castrol makes it for Stihl but don't quote me.

tamadrummer
12-08-2008, 03:27 PM
This is the only 2 cycle I use in my equipment. I used to use John Deere Premium FC rated synthetic blend and it would fill up the spark arrestor in no time.

93 octane and Stihl ultra HP. I am also fussy with the brand of fuel I use, Marathon or Sunoco are all I will fill my 2 cycle tanks with.

I may use Hess or Citgo sometimes for my mowers but it is not an emergency for me to wait and get the right fuel for my handheld gear.

Haven't had a plugged spark arrestor since before Mothers day.

jkilov
12-08-2008, 03:29 PM
I found some interesting literature on the HP Ultra oil. Stihl did a 500 hour engine test and compare it to other oils (although it does not say what brand they are) The Hp Ultra seems to keep the engine internals pretty clean.

http://www.dhequipment.com/Stihl_info/WhyBuyOilScreen.pdf


I have no doubt that Stihl ultra is quality oil, but when a manufacturer performs it's own tests, the "objectivity" is limited. Any idea why it does'nt meet JASO-FD standards?

It's just that these overstatements tend to back fire. I mean, take a look at the piston and exhaust valve. They look like they just rolled of the production line. If I pulled an exhaust valve that clean out of a 500hr engine, I would fell of my chair.

MJR_63
12-08-2008, 11:32 PM
I switched to the Stihl HP Ultra oil and run it in all my Stihl products - Backpack blower, String Trimmer, Edger and Chain Saw....I definitely saw a difference. My equipment starts up right away. I'm a believer! I would definitely use it in all their 4 mix motors.

AmsoilPower
12-08-2008, 11:39 PM
I have no doubt that Stihl ultra is quality oil, but when a manufacturer performs it's own tests, the "objectivity" is limited. Any idea why it does'nt meet JASO-FD standards?

It's just that these overstatements tend to back fire. I mean, take a look at the piston and exhaust valve. They look like they just rolled of the production line. If I pulled an exhaust valve that clean out of a 500hr engine, I would fell of my chair.

What's funny is they didn't show the valve that was tested with Amsoil. I was told by Stihl rep that there was a reason for that. Wonder what that reason is :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

jfme
12-09-2008, 07:34 AM
What's funny is they didn't show the valve that was tested with Amsoil. I was told by Stihl rep that there was a reason for that. Wonder what that reason is :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Do you have a scientific engine test with Amsoil? I would be very curious to see one as I have not been able to find it.

jfme
12-09-2008, 07:48 PM
I have no doubt that Stihl ultra is quality oil, but when a manufacturer performs it's own tests, the "objectivity" is limited. Any idea why it does'nt meet JASO-FD standards?

It's just that these overstatements tend to back fire. I mean, take a look at the piston and exhaust valve. They look like they just rolled of the production line. If I pulled an exhaust valve that clean out of a 500hr engine, I would fell of my chair.

I had the same question. Therefore, I decided to contact them and ask them about the famous JASO-FD certification.

The JASO-FC and FD (JASO stands for Japanese Automotive Standards Organization) certifications were created to reduce visible exhaust smoke as required by certain Southeast Asian countries with high pollution problems. Having a certification for low visible smoke is great as long as the testing parameters are specific for the 2-cycle engine tested. The certification for JASO-FD does not test engines designed for hand-held power equipment but instead they perform their low smoke tests on a specific Suzuki generator. A 2-cycle hand-held equipment engine runs at much higher rpms, temperature and tougher environments than a stationary generator. Therefore, their priority was to formulate an oil that meets the high demands in lubrication, detergency, performance and durability of their application engines. Even though an oil with a JASO-FD certification can claim low smoke and high detergency, the certification provides no warranty for proper lubrication and protection against piston scuffing and adequate detergency required by a 2-cycle hand-held power equipmentl engine. They said the Stilh HP Ultra oil is the best they make and it meets the JASO FB and API TC/TC+ which are rigorous standards on their own. However, these standards do not test demanding 2-cycle engines such as the one in a chainsaw. Stihl does.

My personal take is that there are many high performance synthetic oils out there that are great for hand-held power equipment. If you have any questions contact the manufacturers directly so you can make your own judgement. Since I already trusted Stihl by buying their products, I trust the oil they formulated to engineer and validate their products.

Kennedy Landscaping
12-09-2008, 08:16 PM
Hmm. I may look into this oil next time I get low. I just bought two cases of Husqvarna 2-cycle though.

Green Pastures
12-09-2008, 09:28 PM
Yes it's good oil.

Personally I would not break in new equipment on synthetic oil though.

I will not argue why or why not as I said it's just a personal thing. I break in all new equipment on dyno oil, then switch to fully synthetic.

jkilov
10-12-2013, 01:14 PM
I have been using Stihl ultra the past month to try it out.

It does not burn nearly as clean at the Castrol RS it replaced. Both hedge trimmers started smoking in confined spaces more than usual, one was fouling plugs and gummed up the exhaust port.

I can't say if it's all due to oil or something with the equipment but Stihl ultra is just not worth the hype.

Nredo
10-12-2013, 01:41 PM
I have been using Red Armor oil with great results

http://www.redarmoroil.com/Shindaiwa.aspx

GMLC
10-13-2013, 06:30 AM
Stihl HP Ultra is a very good oil. We ran it for many years but switched to Amsoil Saber to save $ and have gotten even better results.
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Ridin' Green
10-13-2013, 11:58 AM
Stihl HP Ultra is a very good oil. We ran it for many years but switched to Amsoil Saber to save $ and have gotten even better results.
Posted via Mobile Device

Totally agree with this.

jkilov
10-17-2013, 02:23 PM
The thing has been bothering me to the extent I have gathered data sheets of all oils I have ever used:

STIHL HP Ultra:
- density: 0.94 g/ml
- pour point: -57 oC
- plash point: 216 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 49 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 8,5 cSt

Shindaiwa Red Armor:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -42 oC
- plash point: 73 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 64 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 10.3 cSt

RedMax 2-stroke oil:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -42 oC
- plash point: 70 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 49 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 8,5 cSt

Castrol RS TTS:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -51 oC
- plash point: 73 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 51 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 7.6 cSt

Amsoil Saber Professional:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -43 oC
- plash point: 102 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 71 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 11.1 cSt

Motul 710 2T
- density: 0.86 g/ml
- pour point: -45 oC
- plash point: 88 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 46 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 8.9 cSt

While not a completely comparable method I can't get over how stihl's oil is designed not to burn easily, sort of like racing oil. In any case I'm going back to Motul or Castrol as they have served me great in the past.

Ormond32176
10-17-2013, 02:30 PM
Saber is the best bang for your buck on a quality oil. No two ways about it.

grass disaster
10-18-2013, 06:15 AM
Saber is the best bang for your buck on a quality oil. No two ways about it.

Amsoil saber is the bomb. No way would I ever pay and arm and a leg for that stihl oil.

I buy it in a quart bottle. Its practically free. I think its like $8-$10 for a quart.
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therock
10-18-2013, 10:47 AM
Don't let the "plash point" (Flash?) deter you.

Amsoil and the others are not to be knocked but do not let the higher flash point deter you if indeed that is not a type-o.

Lots of folks have a misconception of premium or higher octane fuels. It too has a higher flash point or say burns slower. It prevents pre-ignition or spark knock and allows more advance timing in some cases. Most of the time compression ratio dictates using higher octanes or not.

So.......... maybe, and I really don't know, that higher plash point may indicate it will lube at a higher temp before it burns eh?

For me its like going to a great restaurant for the 1st time. When the waiter recommends the specials, its usually a win-win to go with what they want to serve you that evening.

So, in learning about octane levels the hard way on my truck (http://alcphoto.net/radix/truck.html) with fuel and timing I will run the faster burning 87 octane from a Oil company service station in hopes its not at the Max ethanol mixture allowed. You can bet QT, RaceTrac and the like all have the max ethanol ratios allowed. Shell & BP the last time checked was a little more forgiving.

Ethanol doesn't scare me in running it as much as letting it sit in my system. It will attack or corrode parts unless Stihl has taken measures there.

TuffTurfLawnCare
10-20-2013, 09:50 AM
I run hp ultra in all my 2 strokes mixed 50:1 with AvGas. Have been doing this for years and never had a problem. No failures, no no-starts, hard starts or cracked fuel lines/primer bulbs. I don't have all the scientific data, just real world use and the only thing I have noticed is the exhaust smells different with HP Ultra and Stihl will double the warranty on new equipment if the oil is purchased at the same time as the equipment. That's worth something to me. Its been two years and I haven't even pulled a spark plug on any of my equipment and it still runs like new.

Some people will argue the science, but for me, my experience is worth more than an msds sheet.

Ditta&Sons
10-20-2013, 11:04 AM
I switched to stihl hp from their premium oil but wouldn't use anything but stihl oil.
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GrassGuerilla
10-20-2013, 11:18 AM
I run hp ultra in all my 2 strokes mixed 50:1 with AvGas. Have been doing this for years and never had a problem. No failures, no no-starts, hard starts or cracked fuel lines/primer bulbs. I don't have all the scientific data, just real world use and the only thing I have noticed is the exhaust smells different with HP Ultra and Stihl will double the warranty on new equipment if the oil is purchased at the same time as the equipment. That's worth something to me. Its been two years and I haven't even pulled a spark plug on any of my equipment and it still runs like new.

Some people will argue the science, but for me, my experience is worth more than an msds sheet.

Just for the record, AVgas contains lead. Probably not something you should be breathing. Ill effects or not, you are ingesting some amount of lead. I'm not screaming that you must stop polluting the environment, I just want you (and anyone considering that path) to know the risk.
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exmarkking
10-20-2013, 02:56 PM
What about opti-2?
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Valk
10-21-2013, 10:22 AM
I've used Opti-2 (a blend) in the past with good results. I switched to Stihl Ultra to go with a full synthetic 2-stroke oil instead of a blend.

exmarkking
10-21-2013, 11:16 AM
So would you prefer the ultra over the opti?
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44DCNF
10-21-2013, 12:31 PM
I've used Opti-2 (a blend) in the past with good results. I switched to Stihl Ultra to go with a full synthetic 2-stroke oil instead of a blend.


Check the MSDS. It is not a full synthetic product. It contains petroleum distillates. So Does Amsoil, but with Amsoil it is in a small enough quantity it is not required to be listed on the MSDS. They used to list it on their label that it contained petroleum distillates and was never advertised as a full synthetic product. Stihl uses a high enough quantity it is required to be listed on MSDS. I don't know if Stihl has ever called theirs a full synthetic product.

Who told you it was full synthetic? Sounds like you are mixing up two stroke and four stroke oil technology/terminology.

Ridin' Green
10-21-2013, 12:58 PM
Check the MSDS. It is not a full synthetic product. It contains petroleum distillates. So Does Amsoil, but with Amsoil it is in a small enough quantity it is not required to be listed on the MSDS. They used to list it on their label that it contained petroleum distillates and was never advertised as a full synthetic product. Stihl uses a high enough quantity it is required to be listed on MSDS. I don't know if Stihl has ever called theirs a full synthetic product.

Who told you it was full synthetic? Sounds like you are mixing up two stroke and four stroke oil technology/terminology.

Valk is technically right. Sounds like you didn't do your homework before posting. It's right here in large print on Stihl's site. Look at the first line at the top-

http://www.stihlusa.com/products/oils--lubricants-and-fuels/oils-and-lubricants/oilhpultra/

44DCNF
10-21-2013, 01:25 PM
And yet their msds say it contains petroleum distillates. Go figure.

Ridin' Green
10-21-2013, 01:29 PM
All the different lubes and their ratings, and the way that companies go about achieving them these days makes keeping track of what's really what kind of hard to do sometimes.

Valk
10-21-2013, 05:49 PM
Amsoil Saber and Stihl Ultra are the only 2 "non-blends" I'm aware of. (If there are others, I'd like to know what they are.) Of these two, I find the Stihl Ultra to be less distinctively odoriferous & more unobtrusive when operating my 2-strokes.
The Amsoil Saber is not bad smelling imo, but it is more distinctive. Reminds me of the pencils I burned as a kid. :laugh:

Ridin' Green
10-21-2013, 06:03 PM
IMO, the Stihl smells stronger, though not by much.

It may have to do with the machines it gets burned in though. In my BR380 and the 320 and 600 I had, Both Saber and HP smelled distinctly different than they do in my strato-charged Husky.

exmarkking
10-21-2013, 06:59 PM
What's it smell like? I have the strato redmax
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ZX12R
10-21-2013, 07:55 PM
I recently bought a case of Redmax 2 stroke oil for $105.00 thru dealer. The case will make 120 gallons. So now,I am reading about Amsoil Sabre and I see at the 100:1 mix,5 quarts will make 120 gallons but at half the cost (5 qts. at retail price of $11.10)of the Redmax coming in at $55.50. :hammerhead:

Guess I will be switching to Amsoil when Redmax is used up.

exmarkking
10-21-2013, 09:02 PM
For comparison,
Opti-2 is $20.00 for 25 gallons.
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Ridin' Green
10-21-2013, 09:06 PM
What's it smell like? I have the strato redmax
Posted via Mobile Device

It's hard to describe really, but I like the smell of both Amsoil and HP Ultra in my 570. Sorta like racing fuel.

exmarkking
10-21-2013, 09:51 PM
I like racin fuel!!
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Will P.C.
10-21-2013, 10:36 PM
It's hard to describe really, but I like the smell of both Amsoil and HP Ultra in my 570. Sorta like racing fuel.

I can't stand the smell (coming from exhaust) of the orange Stihl oil. Looking forward to using this amsoil with ethanol free gas

Anyone know what oil Tru Fuel uses in those overpriced premixed cans. That stuff burns clean? I would only buy that if they were much much cheaper. I know a medium sized arborist who only uses Tru Fuel in his chainsaws. It is a good formula but can't be much better than something like Amsoil or Stihl Ultra in ETOH free gas. I don't believe they use any stablizers or other additives. Hell, every Stihl manual I own calls for regular 89 gas min 10 ethanol and there 2 stroke Stihl Ultra oil.

Ridin' Green
10-22-2013, 12:36 AM
No, I don't care for any of the non synthetic oils when running the BP for longer than a few minutes.

My 570's exhaust has a unique smell that I can only surmise is due to the strato charged engine. regardless, it doesn't bother me with either HP or Saber, but at 80:1, the Saber is a lot less noticeable.

GrassGuerilla
10-22-2013, 07:54 AM
I can't stand the smell (coming from exhaust) of the orange Stihl oil. Looking forward to using this amsoil with ethanol free gas

Anyone know what oil Tru Fuel uses in those overpriced premixed cans. That stuff burns clean? I would only buy that if they were much much cheaper. I know a medium sized arborist who only uses Tru Fuel in his chainsaws. It is a good formula but can't be much better than something like Amsoil or Stihl Ultra in ETOH free gas. I don't believe they use any stablizers or other additives. Hell, every Stihl manual I own calls for regular 89 gas min 10 ethanol and there 2 stroke Stihl Ultra oil.

I'm told that Tru-Fuel uses a Klotz synthetic oil. Reputed to be "the best" oil available.

I do use Tru-fuel as a prophylactic of sorts. Probably overkill, but I have a handful of chainsaws that don't see regular use. I keep an 026 stihl ready to run. All other saws get the ethanol laden mix dumped after use. Put In a splash of Tru-Fuel, fire the saw up to run the good stuff into the carb, then dump the tru-fuel, and store them dry (with no trace of ethanol in the tank or carb.)

If stored with ethanol mix, good for about a month. Stored with tru-fuel, good for a year or so. Run dry with no ethanol residue, good for years at a time.

Btw, I haven't had to putz around with any carbs, or even diaphragms since adopting this technique. Stuff works, kinda like the old days.
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ZX12R
10-22-2013, 08:01 AM
No, I don't care for any of the non synthetic oils when running the BP for longer than a few minutes.

My 570's exhaust has a unique smell that I can only surmise is due to the strato charged engine. regardless, it doesn't bother me with either HP or Saber, but at 80:1, the Saber is a lot less noticeable.

I see you use Saber at 80:1, are you not comfortable using it at 100:1? Just trying to get a feel for how most mix it and why.

TuffTurfLawnCare
10-22-2013, 09:24 AM
Just for the record, AVgas contains lead. Probably not something you should be breathing. Ill effects or not, you are ingesting some amount of lead. I'm not screaming that you must stop polluting the environment, I just want you (and anyone considering that path) to know the risk.
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes indeed AvGas is leaded fuel. The lead content has been lowered and is now considered 100 VLL (Very low lead) however the FAA has decided that 100LL and 100VLL can be sold under the same 100LL designation. Personally I am not concerned about the effects of the leaded fuel from my trimmer or blower. I rarely ever get whiff of it as I generally try to keep the exhaust from blowing in my face. The amount of lead being put into the environment from 2 strokes is statistically irrelevant. I probably get more lead exposure from the small aircraft flying over head as I live within 1 mile of a small municipal airport, and I know for sure I have gotten way more lead in me from time at the race tracks and drag strips.

The amount.t of lead I breathe is still far less than what our parents and grand parents were breathing in a daily basis back in the 60's and 70's when all fuel was leaded and the cars weren't nearly as efficient as as today's two strokes. Its a choice anyone would have to make for themselves, but exposure to the leaded fuel would be, and is, the lowest concern to me.

Ridin' Green
10-22-2013, 10:24 AM
I see you use Saber at 80:1, are you not comfortable using it at 100:1? Just trying to get a feel for how most mix it and why.

Many guys here do use it at 100:1 with no problem year after year. I did start off being cautious, thus the 80:1. Now it is just habit mostly, but it seems to be a good compromise and it helps keep that little voice in the back of my head quiet.:laugh:

Seriously, I feel more comfortable using it at 80:1 in my pro saws. I've read on the arborist sites many times that the 100:1 mix is to lean for the high revving engines on saws, especially for how long and hard they get worked at any one time compared to any handheld for lawn care.

therock
10-22-2013, 10:51 AM
I guess I need to be brought up to speed with letting my lawn power tools sit for more than 4 to 6 weeks and Ethanol in the fuel.

What I do is keep the tanks pretty full to avoid lots of air in there and run them every 4 to 6 week for a few minutes up to full operating temp and put them back.

How about Stihl's HP oil with the stabilizer in it? What is it stabilizing?
I run Oil company brand fuel in hopes for a lesser alcohol content Shell or BP mid grade.
Does it sound suitable for my above method? Or is there no other option than running it dry?
What is the longest no-run times you guys will go before draining the system?

Thanks

TuffTurfLawnCare
10-22-2013, 10:59 AM
Many guys here do use it at 100:1 with no problem year after year. I did start off being cautious, thus the 80:1. Now it is just habit mostly, but it seems to be a good compromise and it helps keep that little voice in the back of my head quiet.:laugh:

Seriously, I feel more comfortable using it at 80:1 in my pro saws. I've read on the arborist sites many times that the 100:1 mix is to lean for the high revving engines on saws, especially for how long and hard they get worked at any one time compared to any handheld for lawn care.

If by "lean" you are referring to the air/fuel mixture, then 100:1 is richer than 80:1 as the 100:1 will have more fuel in a single charge on the compression stroke. Since a single intake charge will be the same amount of fuel/oil mix, the 100:1 will have more fuel in the charge than the 80:1 as a larger portion of the 80:1 charge will have more oil, thus less fuel.

If you were referring "lean" to mean less oil than fuel, then yes you would be correct, however "lean" and "rich" are typically used to describe the air/fuel mixture, not the fuel/oil ratio. ;-)

Ridin' Green
10-22-2013, 11:09 AM
If by "lean" you are referring to the air/fuel mixture, then 100:1 is richer than 80:1 as the 100:1 will have more fuel in a single charge on the compression stroke. Since a single intake charge will be the same amount of fuel/oil mix, the 100:1 will have more fuel in the charge than the 80:1 as a larger portion of the 80:1 charge will have more oil, thus less fuel.

If you were referring "lean" to mean less oil than fuel, then yes you would be correct, however "lean" and "rich" are typically used to describe the air/fuel mixture, not the fuel/oil ratio. ;-)

Well, technically you are right, but anyone reading my post can see that I am referring to mix ratios.

As far as your last paragraph goes, you better straighten out Amsoil.;)

Amsoil uses the term " Designed for pre-mix applications as lean as 100:1 ratios". I do too because most of us here understand that's what we are talking about when discussing fuel/oil mixes and not carbs.:)

TuffTurfLawnCare
10-22-2013, 11:16 AM
Well, technically you are right, but anyone reading my post can see that I am referring to mix ratios.

As far as your last paragraph goes, you better straighten out Amsoil.;)

Amsoil uses the term " Designed for pre-mix applications as lean as 100:1 ratios". I do too because most of us here understand that's what we are talking about when discussing fuel/oil mixes and not carbs.:)

Never looked at their site to notice that. LOL. its one of those things that, as a mechanic, gets me... To me its like calling a gun magazine a clip while there are clear differences. :laugh:

Ridin' Green
10-22-2013, 11:21 AM
Never looked at their site to notice that. LOL. its one of those things that, as a mechanic, gets me... To me its like calling a gun magazine a clip while there are clear differences. :laugh:

I thought they only used clear clips in toy guns. :laugh:

I know what you mean, believe me.

TuffTurfLawnCare
10-22-2013, 11:29 AM
I guess I need to be brought up to speed with letting my lawn power tools sit for more than 4 to 6 weeks and Ethanol in the fuel.

What I do is keep the tanks pretty full to avoid lots of air in there and run them every 4 to 6 week for a few minutes up to full operating temp and put them back.

How about Stihl's HP oil with the stabilizer in it? What is it stabilizing?
I run Oil company brand fuel in hopes for a lesser alcohol content Shell or BP mid grade.
Does it sound suitable for my above method? Or is there no other option than running it dry?
What is the longest no-run times you guys will go before draining the system?

Thanks

Personally, if I was running fuel with ethanol in them, then it would be wise to run them dry and put them up for storage. Even if you run them, you still have ethanol in the fuel that will attack the rubber and aluminum in the carbs. I have very little faith in fuel stabilizers as the fuel still has ethanol in them. Plus the fuel you get at a gas station still has a shelf life of a few weeks without stabilizer additives, and as I said, I don't trust stabilizers.

That being said, I am an advocate of using avgas in my 2strokes just for this reason. It contains no ethanol and has a shelf life of over two years. I run it exclusively in the 2strokes, and in everything that gets stored for over a month. The generator is filled with it all year until it is needed. if more than a single tank is needed I will fill up with regular fuel, but for storage it gets avgas. Everything gets stored with full tanks of it during the off season from the 91 john deer to the trimmers and chain saws. After two years of no use, my Husky 357xp saw fired right up and ran like it did before being stored.

The avgas is leaded, so some are afraid of it or dont like it, but for off season storage it is the best option as it wont let gaskets dry up, wont go stale, and doesn't contain and additives that could cause harm to the tiny carbs on these engines. Avgas can be found at nearly all small air fields and municipal airports. Locally it is $5.75/gal.

therock
10-22-2013, 12:50 PM
Thanks, We have a non-ethanol gas station here @ 90 octane. Guess I'll run that.

TuffTurfLawnCare
10-22-2013, 02:15 PM
Thanks, We have a non-ethanol gas station here @ 90 octane. Guess I'll run that.

You will still need to do something to preserve it as it will still go stale after a few weeks. Non ethanol fuel only takes care of half the problem. It will still have a short shelf life. Hence the reason I go for Avgas, long shelf life AND ethanol free.

Richard Martin
10-22-2013, 02:37 PM
If you were referring "lean" to mean less oil than fuel, then yes you would be correct, however "lean" and "rich" are typically used to describe the air/fuel mixture, not the fuel/oil ratio. ;-)

Welcome to Lawnsite where we regularly refer to the fuel/oil ratio as lean on a regular basis.

Someone wanted to know why we tend to use Amsoil mixed at 80:1? Because the 8 oz bottle of Amsoil mixed into 5 gallons of gas yields a 80:1 mix. It's easy and simple. :dancing:

Ridin' Green
10-22-2013, 02:42 PM
Welcome to Lawnsite where we regularly refer to the fuel/oil ratio as lean on a regular basis.

Someone wanted to know why we tend to use Amsoil mixed at 80:1? Because the 8 oz bottle of Amsoil mixed into 5 gallons of gas yields a 80:1 mix. It's easy and simple. :dancing:

True that, and a quart bottle makes a nice even 32 gallons.

ZX12R
10-22-2013, 04:23 PM
Many guys here do use it at 100:1 with no problem year after year. I did start off being cautious, thus the 80:1. Now it is just habit mostly, but it seems to be a good compromise and it helps keep that little voice in the back of my head quiet.:laugh:

Seriously, I feel more comfortable using it at 80:1 in my pro saws. I've read on the arborist sites many times that the 100:1 mix is to lean for the high revving engines on saws, especially for how long and hard they get worked at any one time compared to any handheld for lawn care.

Interesting,I will take that into consideration when I do make the switch.

GrassGuerilla
10-22-2013, 06:54 PM
You will still need to do something to preserve it as it will still go stale after a few weeks. Non ethanol fuel only takes care of half the problem. It will still have a short shelf life. Hence the reason I go for Avgas, long shelf life AND ethanol free.

Agree with everything else posted here but this. Ethanol free pump gas stored properly is good for a solid year easy. Two under most circumstances, but one to play it safe. It is the Ethanol that is so unstable as to cause the short shelf life. Straight 89+ ethanol free is quite stable.
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exmarkking
10-22-2013, 07:54 PM
I would like a straight forward answer to the question below from you guys that know about different types of oil:

Which is better? Opti-2 or the stihl ultra?
What benifits/differences would I noticed by using the better oil?
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Will P.C.
10-22-2013, 10:50 PM
Agree with everything else posted here but this. Ethanol free pump gas stored properly is good for a solid year easy. Two under most circumstances, but one to play it safe. It is the Ethanol that is so unstable as to cause the short shelf life. Straight 89+ ethanol free is quite stable.
Posted via Mobile Device

This was my understanding as well

therock
10-23-2013, 12:59 AM
Agree with everything else posted here but this. Ethanol free pump gas stored properly is good for a solid year easy. Two under most circumstances, but one to play it safe. It is the Ethanol that is so unstable as to cause the short shelf life. Straight 89+ ethanol free is quite stable.
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Just sayin, I have a supercharged vehicle (http://alcphoto.net/radix/truck.html) that will protest immediately to any kind of fuel issue. She is tuned to have little tolerance for bad fuel.
I keep 93 octane pump ethanol fuel in it for several months at a time with no protests. Mind you its a sealed system and I keep it as full as I can. As an example of how much it sits, she is a 2005 with only 65k miles on her. You guys are scaring me.

Anyways, my Stihl Trimmer FS85X, and the BR600 Magnum blower and my other blower and mowers will start getting the recommended treatment posted here. The non-ethanol fuel and the draining for long term inactivity.

My mowers seem OK but an Echo hand held blower has been protesting, and the trimmer has become a real pain to start and she will not idle well no matter what adjustments. I have a carb coming for her and perhaps blame it all on my fuel practices.

GrassGuerilla
10-23-2013, 07:03 AM
Somehow this turned into another "ethanol thread". Sorry for my contribution to "run it off track".

As to the OP's question: yes Stihl Ultra is good oil. Many swear by it. Never heard anyone swear at it. It is Jaso FB rated. So not as good as FD rated oils, but designed specifically to burn clean in Stihl's 4-mix engines. In other words, I'd run it if I was a 4-mix guy (probably in everything). If I didn't have 4-mix machines, I'd stick to an FD rated oil such as Red armor, Echo oil or Redmax (or whatever FD rated oil was locally available).
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Valk
10-23-2013, 10:21 AM
I would like a straight forward answer to the question below from you guys that know about different types of oil:

Which is better? Opti-2 or the stihl ultra?
What benifits/differences would I noticed by using the better oil?
Posted via Mobile Device

You'll get opinions. Here's mine: I prefer the Stihl Ultra...though I had no issues with Opti-2. I'm solo, so I'm not buying in mega-bulk to save money.

Really, the only 2-stroke oil I've ever had an issue with was Maruyama's...which you must buy WITH your Maruyama equip purchase to receive the extended 5-yr warranty. It is probably great oil for their equip...but my other 2-stroke equip definitely protested with carbon chunks found in the sparkplug gaps. (Will surmise/guess that Maruyama's have a catalytic converter in the exhaust/muffler requiring an additional additive/treatment...though I could be WAY off base on this.)

exmarkking
10-23-2013, 10:33 AM
So what's the difference in price between the opti-2 and ultra?
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Ridin' Green
10-23-2013, 10:35 AM
Valk- you brought up a good point just there with your comment about CC's.

My Stihl BR380 has a CC in the muffler. I use Saber, and everything from port to exhaust screen is clean enough to eat off of. That's another reason I like Saber. I like the HP, but it is too expensive and the Saber actually adds a little power since you are burning more gas and less oil per firing of the cylinder.

Ridin' Green
10-23-2013, 10:36 AM
So what's the difference in price between the opti-2 and ultra?
Posted via Mobile Device

Around me, not much if any. Opti dealers seem very proud of their product in my area.

jkilov
10-27-2013, 12:12 PM
Wish I had taken a picture, but after cleaning the exhaust ports on both hedge trimmers I'm not looking at Stih'l Ultra again.

These seem to have the most problems, first one is a maruyama and the second a husqvarna with basically the same engine. When working in confined spaces, the engines breathe their own exhaust making them smoke. And both do it much worse on Ultra than other oils.

I doubt the oil itself is that bad, but it seems to be designed exclusively for the 4-MIX to address it's lack of exhaust valve lubrication.

In any case Motul 710 or Castrol TTS have worked much better for and are cheaper.

exmarkking
10-27-2013, 06:38 PM
Where do u get the motul and castrol?
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jkilov
10-28-2013, 02:53 PM
I can get both at the local motorcycle shop (Honda Grenada).

In general most 2-stroke motorcycle oils work better than products marketed for the green industry. Just be careful to chose a product with similar (or better) specifications to the OEM oil for your equipment.

Just to name a few good matches:
- Motul 510 2T: good semi-synthetic
- Motul 710 2T: one of the best full-synthetics out there
- Castrol RS TTS: not as good as Motul 710 but great value
- Shell Advance Ultra 2: another good full-synthetic

There are many others, but choose wisely and avoid racing oils. These are higher in viscosity (drops to normal in a hot-running racing engine) and often high flash points so as not to burn too quickly in racing applications and add some lubrication to power-valve systems. Running racing oil in handheld equipment can drag them down. I've tried it and it did it.

The good thing about the above oils is you don't pay for any re-branding procedures. Who makes it, sells it.

jkilov
10-28-2013, 02:59 PM
Forgot to mention: there are 2 minor drawbacks to motorcycle oils:

- most don't contain fuel stabilizers

- most have a faint dye/tint as premix bikes are very rare these days

exmarkking
10-28-2013, 06:17 PM
What about the motul 800? Also I'm trying to figure out cost per gallon. I think the opti-2 I was running is $20.00, and it made 25 gallons. What ratio would I mix the motul at and how many gallons could I get out of a quart? How do you mix it? The opti-2 had a measuring tool built into the container that you just squeezed.
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Ridin' Green
10-28-2013, 06:22 PM
Saber- $11.00 p/qt. 4 oz makes 2.5 gal at 80:1. That means a quart can make 20 gallons of mix at 80:1. 1 gallon of Saber would make 80 gallons of 80:1 mix for $44.

Pretty hard to beat that price and still get that kind of performance.

exmarkking
10-28-2013, 06:30 PM
so could I run the motul 800 at 4oz per 2.5 gallons?

Ridin' Green
10-28-2013, 06:37 PM
so could I run the motul 800 at 4oz per 2.5 gallons?

Not unless it is rated specifically for 80:1 or leaner mix ratios.

exmarkking
10-28-2013, 06:42 PM
I'm so confused!! Could you guys please help me out. I was looking on the motul website and I think they offer the premix in the motul 710 and 800. The 800 is race/off road. It comes in a 1 liter bottle which is a little more than a quart. But it's saying to mix 2-4% with gas depending on what ratio you want. If I remember correctly it was 40:1 or 32:1. Can someone give me some definite answers on what's safe to run? Because if I've done my math correctly, the opti-2 costs around $0.80 per gallon and the motul would be around $0.30 per gallon. That's cheaper per gallon and a better oil
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smallstripesnc
10-28-2013, 07:23 PM
No one has mentioned Echos' Red Armor oil. Any thoughts on it? www.redarmoroil.com

GrassGuerilla
10-28-2013, 10:33 PM
No one has mentioned Echos' Red Armor oil. Any thoughts on it? www.redarmoroil.com

Previously marketed as Shindaiwa Red Armor. JASO FD rated. Top shelf.
Posted via Mobile Device

jkilov
10-29-2013, 01:29 PM
so could I run the motul 800 at 4oz per 2.5 gallons?
Don't use either version of Motul 800, it's racing oil. With a 2-3x higher viscosity it will drag your engine when cold and a flash-point of 500+F just won't burn cleanly.

If you have to use Motul, go with 710 and mix at 50:1.

On the side note Shindaiwa red armor is good but at 70-80% synthetic content it's not as good as other full-synthetics.

WayneJessie
10-30-2013, 06:23 PM
There is no such thing as a "full" synthetic hence MSDS showing mineral oil content of up to 20%. Even oils marketed as full synthetics require up to 20% mineral oil content for it's additive carrier abilities. PAO as well as Esther synthetics are notorious for additive "fallout". They cannot keep antiwear and dispersant additive suspended in solution like mineral oils can. The distinction between "synthetic" and conventional oils is minimal today with the latest additives. A mineral oil with top-notch additives can outperform a "synthetic" with average or lesser additives. It's NOT the base oil that determines the oil's ability to get the job done nearly as much as whether the oil uses top-tier additives or not. Amsoil, Mobil, and others all have to use some mineral oil whether it's listed as such in the MSDS or not.

GrassGuerilla
10-30-2013, 06:51 PM
Don't use either version of Motul 800, it's racing oil. With a 2-3x higher viscosity it will drag your engine when cold and a flash-point of 500+F just won't burn cleanly.

If you have to use Motul, go with 710 and mix at 50:1.

On the side note Shindaiwa red armor is good but at 70-80% synthetic content it's not as good as other full-synthetics.

It's good enough to make JASO FD rating. I believe that is the highest standard on the market no? I've run a six pack of it. It's not my regular. I've actually run mostly Echo power blend (also FD rated) for a long time.

I have a couple Stihl 4-mix motors. Both one extended length hedge trimmer, the other a polesaw. Since so many have had issue with carbon build up, I've decided to try to run Stihl ultra through them since it was designed for them. I have several times ran both Shin red armor, or Echo power blend. Both burned fine. Neither machine objected.

I went so far as to make my own ethanol free fuel since none is available locally. While simple enough, it has some environmental negative impact (I.E. what to do with the ethanol laden water). I found it to be impractical for everyday use. I still do it for my 4-mix with Ultra mix.

In short, daily use stuff works fine on 89 octane pump gas and most any FD rated mix. The problems start with occasional use tools, or any long term storage. I'd attribute much more of the issue to the ethanol in the fuel than the oil.
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jkilov
11-02-2013, 03:24 PM
Chemistry aside, I agree most oils noted here are good, be it group III, V or whatever base stock and XYZ additive package.

But there's clearly a difference in what some oils are designed for:

Shindaiwa Red Armor and Motul 710 2T seem to be designed for "normal running" 2-stroke engines, i.e. the one's we use. Their specifications are very close, both are JASO FD rated (hence burn clean) and deciding between the two is a matter of preference.

Motul 800 is designed for racing applications. Racing engines run hot, are warmed up on idle and don't need to be clean. I'm pretty sure the 800 is not FD rated (correct me if I'm wrong) in fact like many racing oils (i.e. Klotz) has no certification at all, except the usual label that it surpasses all existing standards (as to which they mean is anybody's guess). To put it shortly: would you put 15W-40 or SAE 40 oil in an engine that calls for 0W-20?

I have no idea where Stihl's Ultra fits in. It seems to be designed for the 4-MIX or whatever special need that engine has. It's not FD rated (probably because it wouldn't pass) and yes my hedge trimmers can tell the difference (as can my wife by the stench when I come home). Hedge trimmers sometimes work in situations where they ingest their own exhaust, for whatever reason Stihl Ultra does not suit that situation.

exmarkking
11-02-2013, 04:07 PM
I'm confused on how much motul 710 2t to mix with a gallon.
Posted via Mobile Device

exmarkking
11-04-2013, 10:57 AM
Anyone know how much motul 710 2t to add to 1 gallon?
Posted via Mobile Device

GrassGuerilla
11-04-2013, 11:02 AM
Anyone know how much motul 710 2t to add to 1 gallon?
Posted via Mobile Device

Your missing a key piece... What is your desired ratio? For 50:1 2.6oz/gallon. For 40:1 3oz/gallon. Ratio stays the same regardless of brand etc.
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exmarkking
11-04-2013, 11:05 AM
What ratio do you recommend for handhelds? The opti-2 I was running doesn't even list a ratio...I think someone said it was 100:1. I just want to mix it at a safe rate. I think for my calculations the motul 710 2-t will be cheaper than the opti-2 to run and probably better for the engines.
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exmarkking
11-04-2013, 11:42 AM
The opti-2 is mixed at 1.5 oz per gallon. Wonder is it would be safe to mix the motul at that rate?
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ProStreetCamaro
11-04-2013, 12:29 PM
Wish I had taken a picture, but after cleaning the exhaust ports on both hedge trimmers I'm not looking at Stih'l Ultra again.

These seem to have the most problems, first one is a maruyama and the second a husqvarna with basically the same engine. When working in confined spaces, the engines breathe their own exhaust making them smoke. And both do it much worse on Ultra than other oils.

I doubt the oil itself is that bad, but it seems to be designed exclusively for the 4-MIX to address it's lack of exhaust valve lubrication.

In any case Motul 710 or Castrol TTS have worked much better for and are cheaper.




Amsoil saber at 80:1 to the rescue. I used to have to clean exhaust ports and mufflers at least twice a year. Switched the saber about 5 years ago when we bought our BR600 and have no touched an exhaust port or muffler on anything. Haven't changed any spark plugs or adjusted the BR600 valves either. It is the only 2 cycle I will run in my equipment now. Many good oils on the market but when I have this much success with a product I stick with it because nothing else on the market can possibly provide any better results. The saber has made our 2 cycle equipment maintenance free.

jkilov
11-04-2013, 03:23 PM
What ratio do you recommend for handhelds? The opti-2 I was running doesn't even list a ratio...I think someone said it was 100:1. I just want to mix it at a safe rate. I think for my calculations the motul 710 2-t will be cheaper than the opti-2 to run and probably better for the engines.
Posted via Mobile Device

Motul 710 states from 25:1 to 50:1
Equipment manual (I'm assuming) states 50:1
Hence mix 50:1

The real problem with pre-mix fuel is there's no such thing as a correct ratio. As any modern 2-stroke motorcycle owner can tell you, bike engines these days come with a variable displacement oil injection pump. These mix oil from 1:120 - 1:100 at idle all the way to 1:32 - 1:20 at full load (WOT). There's a technical term called "oil migration" which covers this topic.

We landscapers have to live with simple engines and pre-mix fuel, which is a compromise at best. There are people on this site that do well with 1:100 ratios and I believe them, though putting that in a 13.000+ rpm ported chainsaw would probably shorten it's lifespan. I like to use 50:1 and find it a good compromise. You could go to 40:1 if you really trash your equipment.

Running more oil does expose some problems at prolonged idle. The oil will accumulate in the engine in process known as "puddling". Once you pull the trigger (after 1-2 min at idle) the excess oil gets flushed and your engine may smoke for a few seconds or in some cases die due to plug fouling. Some engines do it more than others with Shindy's C4 being the worst at it.

In any case, go with 50:1, give or take some ratio, depending on what you're comfortable with.

exmarkking
11-04-2013, 06:31 PM
I probably will try it at 50:1. I ordered the motul 710 2t from my local motorcycle shop. Can someone tell me how much oil per gallon to run or will the container tell me? Also I read somewhere that the opti-2 I was running for years was a ratio of 100:1 but I don't know if that's true because they don't tell you the ratio on the container...it just says to mix a certain amount per gallon. If it is 100:1 then I will eventually run the motul at 100:1 once I see how it performs.
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GrassGuerilla
11-04-2013, 07:04 PM
I probably will try it at 50:1. I ordered the motul 710 2t from my local motorcycle shop. Can someone tell me how much oil per gallon to run or will the container tell me? Also I read somewhere that the opti-2 I was running for years was a ratio of 100:1 but I don't know if that's true because they don't tell you the ratio on the container...it just says to mix a certain amount per gallon. If it is 100:1 then I will eventually run the motul at 100:1 once I see how it performs.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ok. Are you kidding? Trolling? If "they tell you how much to mix per gallon", do the math. http://www.csgnetwork.com/oilfuelcalc.html
Posted via Mobile Device

Good luck with 100:1 mixes. Playing with fire... I'll stick to 50:1. Even with the "good stuff".

exmarkking
11-04-2013, 07:23 PM
Trolling? What does that mean?? To the 100:1 ratio that I think opti-2 is, I've never had a problem so why would it be a problem with the good oil? Look I'm just trying to learn more about oil and possibly ways to save money with different oils. Carry on
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GrassGuerilla
11-04-2013, 07:34 PM
I'm not trying to beat up on you. But have you read this thread? The info your askin for has all been posted here already. If 50:1 = 1gal 89 (or better) octane gas + 2.6 oz. oil.
Than 100:1 = 1 gal gas and 1.3 oz. oil.

But if you read above, the Motul seems to be rated at 25:1-50:1. I don't see where it's recommended to use it at 100:1 do you? If that's the case (as posted in this thread) you will burn up engine(s). Opti 2 and Amsoil Sabre are both recommended to run at up to 100:1.

And again, check your owners manual of the engine in question. If it says 50:1 or even 40:1 or even richer in older gear (and Chinese imports). Than 100:1 mixes become even more dubious.

Read the thread. It's all there.
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exmarkking
11-04-2013, 07:37 PM
Dude, I started the thread and have read every post...must have overlooked the one you quoted but thanks
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Ridin' Green
11-04-2013, 07:57 PM
If you are running Stihl 2 stroke equipment, they say right on their site that even their older equipment that was originally designed for richer mix ratios, ie; 40:1 etc, are safe and fine with 50:1 with today's oil.

Unless the oil manu says it is OK to use their mix at a rate other than what is on their bottle, follow their instructions, not the maker of the machine.

exmarkking
11-05-2013, 07:20 AM
So what's the differenece in oils that allow one brand to run at 100:1 and another at 50:1? Thanks for all the good info by the way, I'm going to try the motul 710 2t at 50:1 because I don't want to burn up engines lol
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jkilov
11-07-2013, 01:40 PM
So what's the differenece in oils that allow one brand to run at 100:1 and another at 50:1?
I don't know, probably due to different chemical properties: viscosity, wetability and thermal stability.

Why study so much? Mix as stated by the manual and run fresh gas.

exmarkking
11-07-2013, 02:46 PM
I think it's more of just learning about oils. I'm going to try the motul 710 2t at 50:1 and see how it goes. I think it will be an upgrade from the opti-2 that I was using. Do you know what color the motul is?
Posted via Mobile Device

DXN1EL
11-07-2013, 04:46 PM
http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?catid=17&iid=290&loc=show

I have use many. This is the ONLY one that doesn't make my equipment puke.

jkilov
11-07-2013, 04:48 PM
Do you know what color the motul is?
When mixed with fuel it's light green, sort of the same color as straight gas :hammerhead:, a common downside of using bike oils primarily designed for oil injection.

Three more things not to like about Motul: it's expensive, has no stabilizer and worst of all ... it's French :eek:

exmarkking
11-07-2013, 05:23 PM
From my calculations it's only 3 cents more per gallon than opti-2. I wish it was a better color but I don't care who makes it honestly
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jkilov
11-07-2013, 05:42 PM
I didn't give it any thought at first but my friend who is a chemist and motorcycle owner said it's one of the best on the market.

What I like is it hardly ever smokes. I do a lot of hedge trimming in fall and logging during the winter. At both you sometimes run equipment near obstacles, i.e. when exhaust gases can't escape the work area. Clean burning oils really do wonders in such situations.

exmarkking
11-07-2013, 05:44 PM
I'll let y'all know how it is once I mix some up and try it.
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GrassGuerilla
11-07-2013, 06:44 PM
The undyed thing is a deal-breaker for me. Simply invites trouble.
Posted via Mobile Device

exmarkking
11-07-2013, 07:19 PM
I agree on the no dye thing...have to really watch it. I'd like to try the motul 800 because it's red but people above day it's no good for small engines/handhelds
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GrassGuerilla
11-07-2013, 07:56 PM
I just can't see it... (Pun intended). With all the choices on the market, why risk so much? If you screw up, and double dose it, everything should be fine. At worst might foul a plug. But if by chance you forget, or get distracted at the gas station and forget to add the oil. You won't even see the difference when you fuel up. By the time you realize what you did... Prolly too late. Then the couple bucks you saved will piss you off so bad you won't be able to see straight. Then you go to the Dr and find out you have high blood pressure. Just buy FD rated oil with Dye;-)
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dishboy
11-08-2013, 09:30 AM
The thing has been bothering me to the extent I have gathered data sheets of all oils I have ever used:

STIHL HP Ultra:
- density: 0.94 g/ml
- pour point: -57 oC
- plash point: 216 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 49 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 8,5 cSt

Shindaiwa Red Armor:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -42 oC
- plash point: 73 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 64 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 10.3 cSt

RedMax 2-stroke oil:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -42 oC
- plash point: 70 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 49 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 8,5 cSt

Castrol RS TTS:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -51 oC
- plash point: 73 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 51 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 7.6 cSt

Amsoil Saber Professional:
- density: 0.88 g/ml
- pour point: -43 oC
- plash point: 102 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 71 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 11.1 cSt

Motul 710 2T
- density: 0.86 g/ml
- pour point: -45 oC
- plash point: 88 oC
- viscosity at 100F: 46 cSt
- viscosity at 210F: 8.9 cSt

While not a completely comparable method I can't get over how stihl's oil is designed not to burn easily, sort of like racing oil. In any case I'm going back to Motul or Castrol as they have served me great in the past.
The number that jumps out at me is "- viscosity at 210F: 11.1 cSt".
When outside temps reach 100F+ I like seeing this number, especially from a oil that allows 100 to 1 ratio which gives you a fatter A/F ratio. Two good things in lean EPA engines if you are concerned with longevity.

Richard Martin
11-08-2013, 09:47 AM
The higher the flash point, the cleaner the oil burns. Stihl and Amsoil are hands about everybody else, with the Stihl HP oil so clean, you should be able to eat off of it.

exmarkking
11-08-2013, 10:51 AM
Ran the motul 710 this morning. First off, it is a slight green color which is somewhat noticeable in the tank. I really don't worry about the color because the only cans on the truck is mixed. All the mowers are filled up at the gas station, and where we live there is always a gas station a free minutes away. The smell is awesome. Kind of a sweet smell. The engine seems smoother at full throttle. I didn't notice any smoke what's so ever. But the equipment hardly ever smokes with the opti-2 also. The temp this morning was 35 degrees and the engine fired up on the second pull. I ran it in a 1 year old redmax ebz7500 blower. I mixed the oil with fresh 93 octane that has up to 10% ethonol in it. I'll keep running it and see how I like it. But so far so good. I'll keep y'all posted.
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Andyshine77
01-10-2014, 04:06 AM
710 is a great oil, but it's mostly made for oil injected engines, and is the reason it's so thin. Contrary to what some uninformed people have said in this thread, Motul 800 is the better choice. Motul 800 is used in VP's canned fuel mix, TruFuel also uses 800 in their two cycle fuels.

Stating Motul 800 will cause issues of any type is simply false.

exmarkking
01-10-2014, 08:17 AM
Good to know...I'm still running the 710 will great results but I want to run the 800 only because it's red!
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Jason Simmons
01-12-2014, 10:15 PM
is amsoil sabre ashless ?