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ZX12R
08-03-2008, 10:01 PM
Anyone use thier products and if so,what do you think of them? Yesterday I was at my supplier.I told him that in the fall,I was going to install an irrigation system at my house and that I wanted a price on Hunter I-20's with the SS riser. Do you know he tried to talk me out of the I-20's? He wanted to sell me K-Rain rotors.He said they are identical to PGP's. Anyway he brought one out and they just looked really crappy to me,and I am not even in the irrigation business. The price was almost one third the cost of the Hunter SS I-20 rotor. I am not going to use K-rain but was just curious as to your input on them.

Thanks!

hoskm01
08-03-2008, 10:04 PM
They've been discussed a bit as of late. My conclusion is...

A. you get what you pay for.
B. They havent been around long enough to be proven.
C. They are sold at Home Depot, same ones you buy at the "pro" shops.

C should be A, in terms of relevance for me.

Mike Leary
08-03-2008, 10:06 PM
I-20 6" stainless "ultra" or Rain Bird 5000 6" stainless SAM w/"flow-stop". The rest is crap, except Toro "Stream-Rotors", which are not made in a 6" riser, not stainless, no low-drain check valve in the head.

ZX12R
08-03-2008, 10:16 PM
Mike,what about the I-20 with the 4" SS riser? If I recall,that also has flo stop. Quick question. At what point would you go from a 4" riser to the 6" riser? I was going to go with the 4" ,but,now you are making me think too much.:dizzy:

Mike Leary
08-03-2008, 10:22 PM
Mike,what about the I-20 with the 4" SS riser? If I recall,that also has flo stop. Quick question. At what point would you go from a 4" riser to the 6" riser? I was going to go with the 4" ,but,now you are making me think too much.:dizzy:

I'll make it easy....use 6'' in turf, period, end of discussion. :)

hoskm01
08-03-2008, 10:22 PM
10 more years of thatch before you have to worry about imperfect coverage due to low heads. Nuff said. 6" should be the norm, everywhere, always.

ZX12R
08-03-2008, 10:34 PM
Thanks Mike and Hosk01,I will heed your advice....Thank you!

TPendagast
08-03-2008, 10:39 PM
I used to install only Hunter. Then moved to Rain Bird.
Now we install K Rain.

The PGP was developed by two men, One wenton to sell Hunter, the other K Rain.
There is a lot of K Rain on the east coast.
I can run down a huge list of restorts that have only installed K Rain products.
Many athletic fields use the K Rain product as well.

K Rain is less expensive largely two to two things #1) they have perfected the manufaturing process #2) their name is not as established as Hunter or Rain Bird and therefor they cant get away with the ridiculous profit margins those other two companies get.

K Rain rotors are exactly the same as hunters (so are irrtrols for that matter)

K Rain is essentially The RC Cola to the Coke and Pepsi of RainBird or Hunter.

K Rain doesnt make a good clock yet.

I use Hunter, Rainbird (sometimes) or Acclima clocks.
Ive installed one Weathermatic before.

Im not sure why you would want an I20 stainless on your residential system?

Waterit
08-03-2008, 10:48 PM
We use their pump-start controllers, pump-start relays, and indexing valves, and do a lot of replacing when it comes to their heads, especially the Pro Plus.

hoskm01
08-03-2008, 10:52 PM
Why wouldnt you want stainless? It may not be neccesary in all apps, but it cant hurt. As I stated earlier, Krain has no track record in any book for me to put my name behind them yet. And, I replace many I see that were mistakenly installed in the field. There are ballfields with Orbit heads, doesnt make it right.

ZX12R
08-03-2008, 10:55 PM
Well,I really do not need SS,I am just kind of a nut when it comes to purchasing things. If I feel a product will last longer and is built to last longer over the competition,then I will spend the extra money.I realize SS is more of a benefit with sandy soils,which I do not have.I guess I just like the shiny look.:rolleyes:

From what I have read here, guys that have used them seem to have very little problems with them,and thats a major selling point to me. I also like the flo stop feature.

Mike Leary
08-03-2008, 10:56 PM
I can run down a huge list of restorts that have only installed K Rain products. Acclima clocks.Im not sure why you would want an I20 stainless on your residential system?

Get that huge list of "restorts" out, do they have Acclima clocks, too?
I-20 stainless do not fail.

hoskm01
08-03-2008, 10:58 PM
Well,I really do not need SS,I am just kind of a nut when it comes to purchasing things. If I feel a product will last longer and is built to last longer over the competition,then I will spend the extra money.I realize SS is more of a benefit with sandy soils,which I do not have.I guess I just like the shiny look.:rolleyes:

From what I have read here, guys that have used them seem to have very little problems with them,and thats a major selling point to me. I also like the flo stop feature.
As Leary stated. I20 or RB5K, as long as you get the plus on the RB, have flow stop, which comes in handy, whether you go SS or not. Both good heads, just personal preference.

Mike Leary
08-03-2008, 11:04 PM
[QUOTE=ZX12R;2449743.I guess I just like the shiny look.[/QUOTE]

"I have the simplest of tastes, I am always satisfied with the best."

ZX12R
08-03-2008, 11:05 PM
Hoskm01,what do you mean by "getting the plus on the rainbird? I am not familiar with that.:confused:

ZX12R
08-03-2008, 11:08 PM
"""I have the simplest of tastes, I am always satisfied with the best.""



So very true. Less downtime = more play time. :)

Mike Leary
08-03-2008, 11:11 PM
Hoskm01,what do you mean by "getting the plus on the rainbird? I am not familiar with that.:confused:

5000 "plus" has flow stop.

hoskm01
08-03-2008, 11:11 PM
You can get the 5000, or the 5000 plus, either with all of the other cool features (SS,SAM,PRS/FC or PC).

At my distributor, you can hardly buy the 5k without the plus anymore. But Ive seen plenty of them around other places.

The Plus is essentially just the flow control and I figure the non-plus model will no longer be around on short order.

hoskm01
08-03-2008, 11:12 PM
6k tonight, Mike?

Mike Leary
08-03-2008, 11:16 PM
6k tonight, Mike?

As long as I don't spill, mite be.

ZX12R
08-03-2008, 11:16 PM
OK,thanks guys,I have learned a lot here! :drinkup:

TPendagast
08-03-2008, 11:28 PM
Get that huge list of "restorts" out, do they have Acclima clocks, too?
I-20 stainless do not fail.

University of Maryland and Yale have fields with K Rain.
Emerald Bay Resort in the bahamas
and The royal mirage in UAE come to mind.

Just because something isnt as popular in the Us doesnt mean its no good.
Mostof whats new from Rain Bird is old hat in Europe before they sell it here.


what does it take for someone to "put their name" behind a product, everyone else doing it first?

Btw I wasnt aware of an issue with Pro Plus. I havent installed any of those.

bicmudpuppy
08-04-2008, 12:10 AM
The Home depot K-Rain's LOOK like CR500 irritrol or Toro S800's. They ain't. I don't install anymore, but the guys here know I have always been an irritrol nut at the resi scale. I sitll love the CR500. Bought some S800's instead (same head different rubber top) because I could get them through the Toro dealer to replace some Nelson heads that were installed around the club house. This is a 5" instead of 4", but no up sell to the 6". For the difference in price, I haven't seen a need for stainless or the extra 1". On that same note, if they could have gotten me 12" High pops w/o buying a case, I would have gone that route instead because of some planter boxes nearby where I want to add a head or two.

Unless your in a corrosive environment like sand, I think everything else is going to go bad just as fast and you will get no benefit from the stainless. PGP's are out there w/o stainless shafts that are still turning 30 years later. When they go bad, it is very rare in my experience that the cause is a scored shaft. They are prettier to look at WHEN they are running. I don't get up to watch them run at 4am very often though.

Since we are discussing heads, does the 5000 have a decent low flow nozzle now? One of the reasons for my love of the CR500 was the .5, .75, and 1.5gpm nozzle set for those areas with very poor water supply. I suppose the MP's fill that nitch quite nicely from what I'm hearing.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-04-2008, 05:59 AM
Bic try the RB rotators sometime. I prefer them to MPs. MPs have to run like friggin forever. MPs are great in revamps but I'd design installs with rotators. We switched from PGPs to RB 5000s. Better nozzle tree and I like the coverage better as well. My favorite residential rotor is the RB sam/prs 5000.

AI Inc
08-04-2008, 06:08 AM
Btw I wasnt aware of an issue with Pro Plus. I havent installed any of those.

The springs were too weak in the pro plus,s and after 2-3 yrs 90% would not retract on their own.

bicmudpuppy
08-04-2008, 07:33 AM
Bic try the RB rotators sometime. I prefer them to MPs. MPs have to run like friggin forever. MPs are great in revamps but I'd design installs with rotators. We switched from PGPs to RB 5000s. Better nozzle tree and I like the coverage better as well. My favorite residential rotor is the RB sam/prs 5000.

Except for the dozen heads on the clubhouse lawn, I'm not interested in anything with less than a 60'radius anymore. If I end up doing a little side work, I might be interested. How do any of these choices handle low pressure, dirty water?

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-04-2008, 07:49 AM
Except for the dozen heads on the clubhouse lawn, I'm not interested in anything with less than a 60'radius anymore. If I end up doing a little side work, I might be interested. How do any of these choices handle low pressure, dirty water?

I don't deal with much dirty water but I'd use the RB rotators with lower pressure over the MPs. Mps really like 50psi or better. On the WM SL I set MP precip rates at .3"/hr and rotators at .7"/hr.

DanaMac
08-04-2008, 08:12 AM
I replaced 5 Krains in one yard this spring that the homeowner bought within the last year and a half. All stopped rotating. Still had the wrapping on it stating a 5 year warranty.

Mdirrigation
08-04-2008, 08:27 AM
well some 25 years ago the distributor got me to install a new unproven head from a company with a name nobody ever heard of. It was called a Hunter pgp . guys were still using rain bird impacts at the time . The toro 600 was THE gear drive rotor to use . I like the k rain . I havent had any more problems with it than I have had with hunter , rain bird or toro

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 08:29 AM
...and did the homeowner ask you to honor the warranty for the stuff he'd bought? ;)

AI Inc
08-04-2008, 08:34 AM
...and did the homeowner ask you to honor the warranty for the stuff he'd bought? ;)

I hope not, I hate having to bust out laughing in the customers face.

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 08:50 AM
well some 25 years ago the distributor got me to install a new unproven head from a company with a name nobody ever heard of. It was called a Hunter pgp . guys were still using rain bird impacts at the time . The toro 600 was THE gear drive rotor to use . I like the k rain . I havent had any more problems with it than I have had with hunter , rain bird or toroDistributors got them to be installed by giving the heads away. I remember 5 or 6 Series 075 rotors from Hunter I installed, but not right away, since they only came in fixed angles, and I was too late to get any 180-degree heads. I wonder how many series 075 rotors are still working today.

Rainbird also was doing giveaways for their Minipaw heads. I used mine on an also-ran zone in a system otherwise composed of sprays. I don't think any of those heads had failed when I last saw them.

Toro didn't give away any Super600 heads, but it was sort of a known quantity, combining the features of two existing heads.

DanaMac
08-04-2008, 08:56 AM
...and did the homeowner ask you to honor the warranty for the stuff he'd bought? ;)

Nope. I installed 5000s or PGP. I think PGPs because he already had some in the yard - along with about 4-5other models of rotors.

AI Inc
08-04-2008, 09:32 AM
Nope. I installed 5000s or PGP. I think PGPs because he already had some in the yard - along with about 4-5other models of rotors.

Funny , when I see that I ask " was this system installed in the fall "
and they usualy ansswer " yes how did ya know ? "
I tell em " just a guess " when in reality it was obvious the guy was cleaning out his truck before winter.

sprinklerchris
08-04-2008, 09:49 AM
We've had good luck with the K-Rain RPS (lookalike to PGP). We've installed them all season due to better price and have not had one return for manufacturing defect. The RPS head is only sold in the pro distributors, not in Home Depot.

As was said earlier in the thread, the K-Rain people seem to have perfected the manufacturing process but aren't charging the huge margins that Hunter seems to want for their stuff. That Hunter plant in California is impressive, but it's got to be a money pit.

My KRain rep said they're coming out with a new modular clock and sprays at the IA show this year.

Kiril
08-04-2008, 10:06 AM
Acclima clocks.

Interesting. Your opinion of them and are you using sensors?

TPendagast
08-05-2008, 01:38 AM
Yes I am using the sensors. Ive tried them on hunter pro c with the adapter as well as with the acclima sc6 plus.

I really like hunter clocks, but I like the acclima moisture sensor.

Where I am I usually use a hunter freeze click as a another sensor on the clokc as toward the end of the season at 4am when the cycle goes off, it is common for the temp to be around 30...even though it gets up to 78 during mid day.

With the acclima clock and sensors, I find its best to run a bunch of start times with light run times... (like 4 starts every day 10 min. per zone) the sensor just by passes if it doesnt need it, but wont turn on the clock if there isnt enough....so instead of guessing just over schedule the clock and the sensor interupts when it doesnt need any more. (kinda like an underground rain sensor)

bicmudpuppy
08-05-2008, 07:51 AM
well some 25 years ago the distributor got me to install a new unproven head from a company with a name nobody ever heard of. It was called a Hunter pgp . guys were still using rain bird impacts at the time . The toro 600 was THE gear drive rotor to use . I like the k rain . I havent had any more problems with it than I have had with hunter , rain bird or toro

25 years ago, that "unproven" head had been in the ground in many areas for over 10 years............You still get to replace one now and again. They didn't say PGP, they were G-types before that and...................

Boots, help me here, what where the very FIRST ones called? We are talking about the hard plastic top, not the rubber cap. Some PGP's had the hard plastic tops for a "short" period. I say "short" in terms of the life of this head.

Are there better heads out there than the PGP? I think so, I hope so, but beating the track record on THIS head is going to be hard. Those heads "with the same gear" etc. etc. etc. Are obviously NOT the same. You can make a head that LOOKs like a PGP and claim it is LIKE a PGP, but until it has rotated 30 years w/o any interference....................

DanaMac
08-05-2008, 08:16 AM
Are there better heads out there than the PGP? I think so, I hope so, but beating the track record on THIS head is going to be hard. Those heads "with the same gear" etc. etc. etc. Are obviously NOT the same. You can make a head that LOOKs like a PGP and claim it is LIKE a PGP, but until it has rotated 30 years w/o any interference....................

I will agree that the PGP has been the most reliable for a basic residential/small commercial head. There are better ones with more features and upgrades, but I rarely see them. Most homes here have the basic rotor head with no features. PGP has been the one that I replace the least. I will stick with it and the 5000, no knock offs for me.

TPendagast
08-05-2008, 09:43 AM
I will agree that the PGP has been the most reliable for a basic residential/small commercial head. There are better ones with more features and upgrades, but I rarely see them. Most homes here have the basic rotor head with no features. PGP has been the one that I replace the least. I will stick with it and the 5000, no knock offs for me.


"knock offs" hmmm the PGP is liscensed to hunter under US patent number 5,417,370 to Carl L.C. Kah Jr. Carl Kah owns K Rain. Hunter pays royalties to K Rain for the right to use the PGP.
K Rains is called the RPS75 and fits in the same can the PGP does.... I wonder why? Hmmm maybe its the same head, but Kah doesnt have to pay himself royalties,so his head is cheaper.

Now that 5000 of rain birds? Thats a PGP knock off. I like the rain bird though, the rain curtain nozzel is amoung my favorite.

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 10:18 AM
"knock offs" hmmm the PGP is liscensed to hunter under US patent number 5,417,370 to Carl L.C. Kah Jr. Carl Kah owns K Rain. Hunter pays royalties to K Rain for the right to use the PGP.Say what? The Hunter gear-drive rotor long predates any Kah patent connected with it. (it's first iteration was named "Series 075")
K Rains is called the RPS75 and fits in the same can the PGP does.... I wonder why? Hmmm maybe its the same head, but Kah doesnt have to pay himself royalties,so his head is cheaper.The reversing mechanism patent by Kah is licensed by Hunter, at least until the patent runs out. Hunter did have adjustable part-circle heads when Kah applied for his patent, so it isn't like it was an essential item, but figure Ed Hunter to be smart enough to see a good thing, and to be willing to pay for it.

The K-rain version of the PGP will have to have a good track record to compete with Hunter. Sometime next decade, we will see.

DanaMac
08-05-2008, 12:06 PM
"knock offs" hmmm the PGP is liscensed to hunter under US patent number 5,417,370 to Carl L.C. Kah Jr. Carl Kah owns K Rain. Hunter pays royalties to K Rain for the right to use the PGP.
K Rains is called the RPS75 and fits in the same can the PGP does.... I wonder why? Hmmm maybe its the same head, but Kah doesnt have to pay himself royalties,so his head is cheaper.

Now that 5000 of rain birds? Thats a PGP knock off. I like the rain bird though, the rain curtain nozzel is amoung my favorite.

KRain may have had the original idea or patent or what ever. But Hunter has been the one manufacturing it for 30 years. Now that Hunter has captured the market, KRain wants to piggie back on the success of what Hunter has done the last 30 years on that particular head. So yes I am calling it a knock off.

Mike Leary
08-05-2008, 03:17 PM
5.30 am this morning. A 5000+ 6" stainless with MPR nozzle. Also, a view southeast
from the beach of my crummy job site. :rolleyes:

irritation
08-05-2008, 03:23 PM
Looks like you need a LA nozzle in that "hi-pop". :waving:

Mike Leary
08-05-2008, 03:46 PM
Looks like you need a LA nozzle in that "hi-pop". :waving:

Tried them earlier in the season, too much front load. These are throwing
30' with 60 psi at the head. I'm very pleased with the coverage. Notice how
high the lawn crew is mowing? 4" would not clear, even with these standard
angle nozzles.

Tom Tom
08-05-2008, 03:51 PM
Now that 5000 of rain birds? Thats a PGP knock off. I like the rain bird though, the rain curtain nozzel is amoung my favorite.

and no special tool needed.........

That hunter radius adjusting screw is a POS.

Mike Leary
08-05-2008, 04:04 PM
and no special tool needed.........

That hunter radius adjusting screw is a POS.

Yup, and continue to be able to be adjusted, the 5500 can be adjusted
both ways. The Hunter key works once.:hammerhead:

DanaMac
08-05-2008, 04:34 PM
and no special tool needed.........

That hunter radius adjusting screw is a POS.

Exactly. A little sand gets in the hex screw and it sucks to clean out.

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 05:38 PM
Of course, one hopes to have adjusted the hex screw correctly the first time around...

irritation
08-05-2008, 05:42 PM
Of course, one works on other's junk. :rolleyes:

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 05:53 PM
Of course, one works on other's junk. :rolleyes:Only if they ask real nice (and throw money) payup

irritation
08-05-2008, 05:56 PM
Only if they ask real nice (and throw money) payup

And they almost always do. :)

Mike Leary
08-05-2008, 07:05 PM
And they almost always do. :)

They have to, called the contractor, no return call, plants croaking, call you, show up and they know you care. Client for life.

greenmonster304
08-05-2008, 07:28 PM
Exactly. A little sand gets in the hex screw and it sucks to clean out.

today i installed my first 5000's. originally i was going to use pgps on this job but after yesterday pulling my hair out trying to get the hunter key in a head that was not even a year old i thought its time for a change. as it turns out i got a better price on them.

Mike Leary
08-05-2008, 07:37 PM
today i installed my first 5000's.

You'll like them, they look overkill on the front load, but my moisture meter
on the new site I'm monitoring, shows perfect application with MPR nozzles.

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 07:43 PM
PGPs can almost always be 'cleaned up' by prying back the rubber cover. Returning the cover to its original position is a bit tricky, but not too difficult.

hoskm01
08-05-2008, 07:55 PM
"knock offs" hmmm the PGP is liscensed to hunter under US patent number 5,417,370 to Carl L.C. Kah Jr. Carl Kah owns K Rain. Hunter pays royalties to K Rain for the right to use the PGP.
K Rains is called the RPS75 and fits in the same can the PGP does.... I wonder why? Hmmm maybe its the same head, but Kah doesnt have to pay himself royalties,so his head is cheaper.

Now that 5000 of rain birds? Thats a PGP knock off. I like the rain bird though, the rain curtain nozzel is amoung my favorite.
So every rotor is a PGP knock-off? Ok.

greenmonster304
08-05-2008, 08:03 PM
PGPs can almost always be 'cleaned up' by prying back the rubber cover. Returning the cover to its original position is a bit tricky, but not too difficult.

My trick is (don't laugh) I pry the rubber cover off with the sprinkler running, stick my face in front of the stream, get a mouth full of water, then squirt it into the alan screw and force all the debris out (only if I know the water is clean).

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 08:05 PM
You can curl your fingers in front of the nozzle and guide the water to the hex screw.

Mike Leary
08-05-2008, 08:12 PM
My trick is (don't laugh).

::Loss for words::::

greenmonster304
08-05-2008, 08:12 PM
i have tried that but found better results with my method on the ones that are really packed

Wet_Boots
08-05-2008, 08:14 PM
Toro recommended packing a squirt gun.

Waterit
08-05-2008, 08:45 PM
today i installed my first 5000's. originally i was going to use pgps on this job but after yesterday pulling my hair out trying to get the hunter key in a head that was not even a year old i thought its time for a change. as it turns out i got a better price on them.

On sale at Ewing this month for a little over $6 a pop, case quantity!

My trick is (don't laugh) I pry the rubber cover off with the sprinkler running, stick my face in front of the stream, get a mouth full of water, then squirt it into the alan screw and force all the debris out (only if I know the water is clean).

You're a sick man, but that's what we like about you!

sprinklerchris
08-06-2008, 06:38 AM
[QUOTE=Wet_Boots;2451991]Say what? The Hunter gear-drive rotor long predates any Kah patent connected with it. (it's first iteration was named "Series 075")
]


It can take up to 10 years for a patent to issue even though the product has been in production. That's the concept of "patent pending".

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 07:31 AM
[QUOTE=Wet_Boots;2451991]Say what? The Hunter gear-drive rotor long predates any Kah patent connected with it. (it's first iteration was named "Series 075")
]


It can take up to 10 years for a patent to issue even though the product has been in production. That's the concept of "patent pending".Kah's patent was received in 1995, and was applied for in 1986, and there were adjustable part-circle Hunter rotors on the market before 1986, so Kah's idea was not essential to the existence of the PGP (but it undoubtedly was worth Hunter's paying for)

TPendagast
08-06-2008, 08:20 AM
[QUOTE=sprinklerchris;2453296]Kah's patent was received in 1995, and was applied for in 1986, and there were adjustable part-circle Hunter rotors on the market before 1986, so Kah's idea was not essential to the existence of the PGP (but it undoubtedly was worth Hunter's paying for)
However it is still proof positive (and the other 49 patents specific to the irrigation industry he holds) that what he makes isn't "cheap junk"
And certainly Kah isn't "copying" or "knocking off" someone else's designs.

I dont believe it was the 'PGP' back in those days anyway.

1986 also predates 90% of the people posting on here's experience in the irrigation industry at all. So Kah and his products are not some newbie albatross POS just because they arent familiar with him and his product line.

Truthfully he probably sold his product patents to hunter due to the fact that hunter already had in place the manufacturing facilities to mass produce the idea in sufficent quanitites to mak farming out your patent pay off enough to make your own manufacturing facilities over a decade.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-06-2008, 08:25 AM
The FRain PGP thing is dead horse beating. Who cares anymore. Just use the rotor you like.

Wet_Boots
08-06-2008, 08:28 AM
Uhhh, you probably want to edit your post a bit, not that I want quote credit, but that's one thing that can tick off the mods.

Too late, I guess, and truly, WTFC ~ If the me-too head is worthwhile, it will be known sometime next decade, when it might have a track record comparable to the PGP.

I wonder if anyone will ever reintroduce a ball drive rotor.

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 03:29 PM
K-Rain don't make something like this bad boy....I-40, 14 gpm @ 80 psi,
chucking 53'.

TPendagast
08-06-2008, 07:47 PM
K-Rain don't make something like this bad boy....I-40, 14 gpm @ 80 psi,
chucking 53'.

Actually K Rain makes a stainless ProSport 14003
40-90psi ,40' to 65'
5.9 to 32.5 gpm

AND what I like about K Rain Rotors is that if you set them to 360, they are continuous, they dont reverse and go back

TPendagast
08-06-2008, 07:48 PM
Uhhh, you probably want to edit your post a bit, not that I want quote credit, but that's one thing that can tick off the mods.

Too late, I guess, and truly, WTFC ~ If the me-too head is worthwhile, it will be known sometime next decade, when it might have a track record comparable to the PGP.

I wonder if anyone will ever reintroduce a ball drive rotor.

I just hit the quote button like i just did now. Havnet a clue what happened, must be a glitch

Mike Leary
08-06-2008, 08:04 PM
I just hit the quote button like i just did now. Havnet a clue what happened, must be a glitch

Dump the list of your stuff when you post on this forum, you can click
before the post & we'll be more interested.

sprinklerchris
08-06-2008, 08:36 PM
K-Rain don't make something like this bad boy....I-40, 14 gpm @ 80 psi,
chucking 53'.


Yeah, the K-Rain ProSport is more like the Hunter I-35 rotor. It will still do those specs, but has the advanced features of Hunter's latest.

http://www.krain.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=rotors.proSport&CFID=124074739&CFTOKEN=93265521

TPendagast
08-06-2008, 10:20 PM
Oh, Ok I Didn't really see that button down there.

bicmudpuppy
08-06-2008, 11:16 PM
Be carefull. Dr. "K" is NOT a GOD. It was my understanding that he gets credit for that pulse pause mechanism that was in the Hardie XL heads that never took off. When you talk irrigation patents, 90% of them belong to about 4 guys. Hunter and Dr K are two of them. The Home depot version of the K-rain rotor is junk. Worse than Orbit. Possibly even worse than Nelson. Who gets credit for the drive mechanism in the Nelson rotors we all "love" so much.

When you want to make a point, you can't just shout the obvious success. Even Nelson made a few good products. That doesn't mean I'm going to buy stock in the company. K-Rain as a COMPANY doesn't make squat from ANY other manufacture. Dr. K's decedents will never lack because of his success.

TPendagast
08-06-2008, 11:34 PM
Be carefull. Dr. "K" is NOT a GOD. It was my understanding that he gets credit for that pulse pause mechanism that was in the Hardie XL heads that never took off. When you talk irrigation patents, 90% of them belong to about 4 guys. Hunter and Dr K are two of them. The Home depot version of the K-rain rotor is junk. Worse than Orbit. Possibly even worse than Nelson. Who gets credit for the drive mechanism in the Nelson rotors we all "love" so much.

When you want to make a point, you can't just shout the obvious success. Even Nelson made a few good products. That doesn't mean I'm going to buy stock in the company. K-Rain as a COMPANY doesn't make squat from ANY other manufacture. Dr. K's decedents will never lack because of his success.

Curious as to what you think are Obvious successes, seeing as people who were posting about K Rain were clearly aware of none of them?
My point was it isnt a "new" company "copy-catting" something else that worked or a company making cheap knock offs.

Id dont shop at home depot so I wouldnt know what they sell there.

Waterit
08-06-2008, 11:50 PM
I dont shop at home depot so I wouldnt know what they sell there.

Me either - Lowe's logo colors are much cooler.

Seriously, I can't get into the product argument too much as I know little of the history. I DO know that you can't touch KR for pump-start controllers, relays, and indexers, nor can you fault Carl Kah for wanting to broaden his product line.

I just wish he'd done it with a rotor head that didn't get replaced so often.

Mike Leary
08-07-2008, 12:05 AM
Me either - Lowe's logo colors are much cooler.

:::PM's job application form::::

bicmudpuppy
08-07-2008, 12:08 AM
I can Kneel and bow to the throne that Dr K has earned the right to sit on in this industry. I no of ZERO contributions that K-Rain as a company can claim. I would not call the K-Rain design of being a "knock off". I'm not sure anything except possibly the Orbit line is. The assumption that the k-Rain head is "just like the PGP" is flawed as well. The K-Rain uses the same gear/slip clutch in their rotor that Irritrol and now Toro first put in theirs. And, Yes, I'm fairly sure that combo of pieces was used by Irritrol first.

Show some technology/Patent that can be attributed to the COMPANY that is K-Rain, and not Dr. K. Or, even a new patent of his since K-Rain and not from his past associations.

AI Inc
08-07-2008, 06:25 AM
Me either - Lowe's logo colors are much cooler.

Seriously, I can't get into the product argument too much as I know little of the history. I DO know that you can't touch KR for pump-start controllers, relays, and indexers, nor can you fault Carl Kah for wanting to broaden his product line.

I just wish he'd done it with a rotor head that didn't get replaced so often.

Figured you would know a bit about them. They are from your state. Riviera Beach aka murder town.

Wet_Boots
08-07-2008, 07:00 AM
K-rain didn't invent any relays. They just put an existing product in a box.

DanaMac
08-07-2008, 08:20 AM
OK I was the one that made the "knock off" comment. I retract it. BUT I will call the KRain head a copy cat riding on the coat tails of a product that has been out there by another company. I don't care who created the gear mechanism. Hunter may have bought the patent, BUT HUNTER produced this best selling product, not KRain. HUNTER manufactured it. HUNTER promoted it. HUNTER gained the success and now KRain wants to ride the coat tails. THAT, my friend, is the problem. If KRain wanted the success from it they should have produced it years ago.

sprinklerchris
08-07-2008, 11:04 AM
OK I was the one that made the "knock off" comment. I retract it. BUT I will call the KRain head a copy cat riding on the coat tails of a product that has been out there by another company. I don't care who created the gear mechanism. Hunter may have bought the patent, BUT HUNTER produced this best selling product, not KRain. HUNTER manufactured it. HUNTER promoted it. HUNTER gained the success and now KRain wants to ride the coat tails. THAT, my friend, is the problem. If KRain wanted the success from it they should have produced it years ago.

Dr. Kah's biggest failure was not to start manufacturing and selling his own ideas. The company tried too long to sell index valves to people that didn't want them and didn't get around to making decent rotors for ages. By then, Hunter was long past them.

But god bless them for introducing a quality, competitive product. Whether you're using it or not, it's certainly pressuring distributors to get real about pricing their rotors.

It's got to be sad for the Hunter employees in California though, the days of the posh facilities, fully-equipped fitness center and all that have to be coming to an end.

Wet_Boots
08-07-2008, 11:11 AM
Uhh, the Hunter rotor owes none of its existence to K-Rain or Kah - it was around for half a decade before Kah's patent application was filed for the improved reversing-mechanism. Adjustable-arc gear-drive rotors were working for years in the field before Hunter even produced a single head.

Dirty Water
08-07-2008, 11:16 AM
I don't deal with much dirty water

Aha, the truth comes out! You don't like me!

:laugh:

Tom Tom
08-07-2008, 12:13 PM
OK I was the one that made the "knock off" comment. I retract it. BUT I will call the KRain head a copy cat riding on the coat tails of a product that has been out there by another company. I don't care who created the gear mechanism. Hunter may have bought the patent, BUT HUNTER produced this best selling product, not KRain. HUNTER manufactured it. HUNTER promoted it. HUNTER gained the success and now KRain wants to ride the coat tails. THAT, my friend, is the problem. If KRain wanted the success from it they should have produced it years ago.

Exactly.

The name K-Rain is just too much like a certain store. Customers without much knowledge of sprinklers probably think they are sold there.

TPendagast
08-07-2008, 08:31 PM
OK I was the one that made the "knock off" comment. I retract it. BUT I will call the KRain head a copy cat riding on the coat tails of a product that has been out there by another company. I don't care who created the gear mechanism. Hunter may have bought the patent, BUT HUNTER produced this best selling product, not KRain. HUNTER manufactured it. HUNTER promoted it. HUNTER gained the success and now KRain wants to ride the coat tails. THAT, my friend, is the problem. If KRain wanted the success from it they should have produced it years ago.

So does chevy ride on the coat tails of Ford because Ford created the first pickup truck?

Wet_Boots
08-07-2008, 08:36 PM
Chevrolet has been around long enough to build a track record. Different animal entirely. Shelve the topic, and come back in ten years.

DanaMac
08-07-2008, 08:36 PM
So does chevy ride on the coat tails of Ford because Ford created the first pickup truck?

That point means nothing. if Ford designed first pickup, patented the entire idea, sold the idea, never built one for 30 years, then made the exact same pickup with a different bumper, or different color, then you would have a point.

KRain has let Hunter go through all the R&D and all the growing pains and all the problems and now wants a larger piece of the pie. With no grunt work. How hard is that to understand?

TPendagast
08-07-2008, 08:37 PM
None the less I still say K Rain is aviable useful and quality product.
AND if K Rain is 25% less than Hunter. I'll buy it. K Rain makes their rotor so It drops into a PGP can and makes theier pop up so It drops into an 1800 rain bird can.
Makes repair/replacement cheaper and easier. Ilike the fact Krain sells just the insert and I dont have to pay for/throw away another can.

Pump start relays? Hah I could make one of those with spare parts from my step sons RC Car.

I use smart boxes by munroe pump for pump start relays. But Monroe is several states away... I might actually look into the K Rain product as my favorite venodr is a K Rain distributor.

DanaMac
08-07-2008, 08:42 PM
How hard is that to understand?

Sorry, that sounded b!tchy. Wasn't meant to. :)

Mike Leary
08-07-2008, 08:56 PM
Sorry, that sounded b!tchy. Wasn't meant to. :)

Piker.........

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-07-2008, 09:41 PM
The only thing this FRain arguing does is show me how clever FRain reps are getting at disguising themselves as contractors.

Wet_Boots
08-07-2008, 09:44 PM
And they persuade just about nobody.

hoskm01
08-07-2008, 09:46 PM
And they persuade just about nobody.
But theres a baseball field with them, who woulndt run out and buy a case?

irritation
08-07-2008, 09:54 PM
They both suck, and I use to think the Hunter PGP was the best for an economical residential rotor.
RB 5000 is all I use now.

hoskm01
08-07-2008, 09:57 PM
They both suck, and I use to think the Hunter PGP was the best for an economical residential rotor.
RB 5000 is all I use now.
Quick learner.

TPendagast
08-07-2008, 10:03 PM
Dont like the rain bird 3500?

hoskm01
08-07-2008, 10:05 PM
Dont like the rain bird 3500?
I like that too, for small apps.

Got a Krain for that too?

TPendagast
08-07-2008, 10:09 PM
Yea its called a mini pro.
But is more like a PGJ.

What I dont like about K rain is they dont have a 6" mini pro. OR a 6" pop (which i think is ******ed)

and they're RPS75 (PGP compare) is 5" (no 4s or 6s) kinda 'tarded too

hoskm01
08-07-2008, 10:11 PM
5 is not bad, I like 5.

10 years and Im sold.

TPendagast
08-07-2008, 10:13 PM
If K Rain has been around since '74, what were they buildingback then?

bicmudpuppy
08-07-2008, 10:57 PM
and they're RPS75 (PGP compare) is 5" (no 4s or 6s) kinda 'tarded too

That could be because the K-Rain was NEVER a PGP, but a copy of the IRRITROL CR500/ Toro S800 that has always been a 5" pop-up. I made the mistake ONE time of grabbing 3 K-Rains to finish a job so I could get that glorious final check instead of waiting for Monday..........I ate all three on the walk through and didn't get paid until Tuesday anyway because all 3 were junk out of the plastic they came wrapped in. The Irritrol head was the first head I ever experienced in the res/com lines with the slip clutch. Hunter has never picked up using said slip clutch.

bicmudpuppy
08-07-2008, 10:58 PM
But theres a baseball field with them, who woulndt run out and buy a case?

Nelson wants to talk to you........................

DanaMac
08-07-2008, 11:13 PM
RB 5000 is all I use now.

My choice too, but it really wasn't in the discussion.

DanaMac
08-07-2008, 11:15 PM
Dont like the rain bird 3500?

Junk. Replaced too many already. Don't like the spray patterns, application, overall feel of how cheap it is.

Waterit
08-08-2008, 12:20 AM
I use smart boxes by munroe pump for pump start relays. But Monroe is several states away... I might actually look into the K Rain product as my favorite venodr is a K Rain distributor.

Hunter's pump-start cabinet is better than K-Rain's.

Waterit
08-08-2008, 12:23 AM
If K Rain has been around since '74, what were they buildingback then?

Pump-start controllers, relays, and indexing valves.:hammerhead:

AI Inc
08-08-2008, 06:21 AM
Yea its called a mini pro.
But is more like a PGJ.

What I dont like about K rain is they dont have a 6" mini pro. OR a 6" pop (which i think is ******ed)

and they're RPS75 (PGP compare) is 5" (no 4s or 6s) kinda 'tarded too

I was there when they came up for the name for that. Like all mini rotors , it sucks too , right along with pgm, pgj , 3500.

sprinklerchris
08-08-2008, 12:25 PM
KRain has let Hunter go through all the R&D and all the growing pains and all the problems and now wants a larger piece of the pie. With no grunt work. How hard is that to understand?


Exactly. I need a bigger piece of the pie too.

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 12:33 PM
I like pie
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:rf5h5oTMHTVU4M:http://www.channel4.com/video/images/mb/Channel4/video/2008/week4/Fat_Mans_Warning_001_001_002_001.jpg

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 09:17 PM
Will someone kill this thread already.:dizzy:

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 09:28 PM
You started it, and it goes on your Permanent Record.

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 11:54 PM
Watching the Olympics hoopla

ZX12R
08-09-2008, 12:02 AM
Anyway,I know thats not you in the pic.You have no boots on!

Waterit
08-09-2008, 01:20 AM
LOL,u must be bored tonight.

Nah, he always acts like that. Needs to change his sig to Threadjacker Supreme.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
Funny. The biggest fear for most any contractor is the fear of change. That's all this seems to be.
Some corrections to stated info here. There was a single dollar exchanged for the licensing of the shared patent. Mr. Hunter gave Mr. Kah $1. It was something they both developed. Mr. Hunter started making PGP's when he left Toro. Mr. Kah started making indexing valves on the side while he was still working at Pratt & Whitney as an aerospace engineer 34 years ago.
K-Rain is a ISO 9001:2000 Certified Company all the way through. The only rotor manufacturer completely head to toe with this certification.
All K-Rain rotors carry a 5 year warranty. K-Rain is not the first company to have issues with products in the past. K-Rain's manufacturing process and quality control changes in the last 3 years allows them to have the least return rate in the industry-less then half of a percent.
The mid range rotor -MiniPro is soon to be 6" and 12"
The RPS75 is no different than the PGP mechanically, function, performance, reliability. The difference? You pay for the fancy buildings, catalogs, points, etc. with PGP. Look at the advertisement by Hunter in the Irrigation & Green Magazine. "They may look like us, they may act like us, but they are not us." Confirming? The RPS75 has been out for 3 years w/o issue. If it doesn't work, then why is your favorite distributor dropping your cost for the PGP or giving up points? Still can't touch the price of the RPS 75.
The Pro Sport is eating the I40's lunch. So Hunter came out with the I35 Sierra to directly duplicate the features of the Pro Sport. The sports turf industry is a small network. The Pro Sport works w/o issue and it's taking off!
Mr. Kah has over 60 industry related patents. K-Rain is tapped into every manufacturer, with the exception of Hit and WM, in some shape or form.
K-Rain makes a great 1" valve as well. Great for dirty water app's, low flow, and high flow.
There are a lot of new products coming to market from K-Rain within the next 12 months.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 04:52 PM
It's pretty clear that there isn't one particular product that EVER SINGLE contractor uses. Some are happy using the 5004. Others are happy using the PGP while the next will be happy with saving money with the RPS75 w/o sacrificing quality, function and support.
I can't imagine what happened to some here when they came out with computers and the internet.
Most that sell on brand name are doing the same as their competitor. Sell your service's, company, history, etc. Differentiate yourself from the next.

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 05:08 PM
Minimize callbacks - maximize profits

Now some guys won't ever support their work, so they've already minimized callbacks, and are free to use the cheapest stuff they can buy. But that isn't everyone.

The RPS75 is no different than the PGP mechanically, function, performance, reliability.Come back in ten years and tell the world.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 05:13 PM
I've mixed and matched all my so called career, never had any particular devotion to
a manufacturer, whatever fits the need. What I have paid attention to are my suppliers
and my (cough), reps. If I'm going to eat something, I'm taking them down with me.
When the Hunter PGMs started failing, Hunter admitted it, same with RB "T-Birds".
That's the point, if you're happy with the performance & support from branch, pick
any brand you feel like.

londonrain
08-11-2008, 05:13 PM
It's pretty clear that there isn't one particular product that EVER SINGLE contractor uses. Some are happy using the 5004. Others are happy using the PGP while the next will be happy with saving money with the RPS75 w/o sacrificing quality, function and support.
I can't imagine what happened to some here when they came out with computers and the internet.
Most that sell on brand name are doing the same as their competitor. Sell your service's, company, history, etc. Differentiate yourself from the next.
I just judge a company on its past history with products and we all know Krains past history with rotors.....enough said.....

bicmudpuppy
08-11-2008, 05:53 PM
The RPS75 is no different than the PGP mechanically, function, performance, reliability. The difference?

WRONG, You've been fed an advertising line. Whether your a rep, distributor, or brainwashed installer. The PRS75 has a SLIP CLUTCH. I'm not judging the product, good or bad. The product most like the rotor your pitching is the Irritrol CR500/ Toro S800. A site search will tell you I am a big fan of the slip clutch used in these heads and their nozzle set. There is (IMHO) nothing wrong with the gear mechanism being used in this rotor, but your telling tall tales if you say it is the SAME as a PGP, 'cause it just ain't so.

DanaMac
08-11-2008, 06:00 PM
If I'm going to eat something, I'm taking them down with me.

Like the WM solenoids :dizzy:

When the Hunter PGMs started failing, Hunter admitted it, same with RB "T-Birds".

Very true. Hunter and RB both stepped up and backed their products. I don't want to try another manufacturer, and possibly have their product fail (or not) when I KNOW the 5004 and the PGP have worked out most the kinks, and WILL be backed up be RB and Hunter.

It once again goes back to our companies as well. Customers will continue to use us even if we are higher than Company B, because they know we will back up our work. If we fail in doing that, they will then probably look around, and probably base their decision on price at that point.

DanaMac
08-11-2008, 06:11 PM
OK who has some experience blowing out systems with these KRains? Have they stood up to one or two years of blowing out the systems? How about with higher pressure? I know the PGP and 5000s hold up even with 120 psi.

Hee Hee - my first go round at getting a winterizing debate going

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 06:14 PM
OK who has some experience blowing out systems with these KRains? Have they stood up to one or two years of blowing out the systems? How about with higher pressure? I know the PGP and 5000s hold up even with 120 psi.

Hee Hee - my first go round at getting a winterizing debate going

Right here..

A few years back with my old company we blew out a 10 Z system with said K rain rotors...Blew it out with a 60 psi Lindsay,I swear zones of the rotors were stuck up....It took us a few minutes to get them all down..Every year that turn on was good for 2 heads that wouldn't turn or retract..

ill pass on the cheap stuff...

DanaMac
08-11-2008, 06:16 PM
Right here..

A few years back with my old company we blew out a 10 Z system with said K rain rotors...Blew it out with a 60 psi Lindsay,I swear zones of the rotors were stuck up....It took us a few minutes to get them all down..Every year that turn on was good for 2 heads that wouldn't turn or retract..

ill pass on the cheap stuff...

Thanks. That's all I need to hear. :)

brookviewlawncare
08-11-2008, 06:36 PM
OK who has some experience blowing out systems with these KRains? Have they stood up to one or two years of blowing out the systems? How about with higher pressure? I know the PGP and 5000s hold up even with 120 psi.

Hee Hee - my first go round at getting a winterizing debate going

I put K-rains in about 15 jobs about 12-13 years ago still winterize most of them They do stand up to 100-120psi and there is no doubt that i have replaced some but not all ! By percentage i don't think they are any worse than most of the other disposable products we are all putting in today.

hoskm01
08-11-2008, 06:40 PM
I put K-rains in about 15 jobs about 12-13 years ago still winterize most of them They do stand up to 100-120psi and there is no doubt that i have replaced some but not all ! By percentage i don't think they are any worse than most of the other disposable products we are all putting in today.
By "All", you must mean you and your crew, because I dont install disposable products, neither do most of the guys on here.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 06:50 PM
I've mixed and matched all my so called career, never had any particular devotion to
a manufacturer, whatever fits the need. What I have paid attention to are my suppliers
and my (cough), reps. If I'm going to eat something, I'm taking them down with me.
When the Hunter PGMs started failing, Hunter admitted it, same with RB "T-Birds".
That's the point, if you're happy with the performance & support from branch, pick
any brand you feel like.

Ding ding ding.....what does he win Johnny? This is the key to every manufacturer that not all manufacturers recognize. Support is key. We're talking about little plastic parts. Things happen. The relationship is between the contractor and the distributor...not the contractor and manufacturer. The manufacturer is the one the contractor deals with on a daily basis, finances, educates, etc. It's great to have a solid relationship with your manufacturer rep. that answers the phone, returns calls, comes to the table with solutions, not "I've never seen that before."

geardriven
08-11-2008, 06:50 PM
I just judge a company on its past history with products and we all know Krains past history with rotors.....enough said.....

No different than Hunter, RB, and Toro....well....Hunter and RB:)

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 06:52 PM
Hee Hee - my first go round at getting a winterizing debate going

Wrong, I mentioned it about three weeks ago. :hammerhead:
That's a good point you make about heads taking air; I've blown
quite a few (o.k., a lot of) heads to the moon. If you know what you're
doing with the compressor and the heads fail, they are junk.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:02 PM
WRONG, You've been fed an advertising line. Whether your a rep, distributor, or brainwashed installer. The PRS75 has a SLIP CLUTCH. I'm not judging the product, good or bad. The product most like the rotor your pitching is the Irritrol CR500/ Toro S800. A site search will tell you I am a big fan of the slip clutch used in these heads and their nozzle set. There is (IMHO) nothing wrong with the gear mechanism being used in this rotor, but your telling tall tales if you say it is the SAME as a PGP, 'cause it just ain't so.

No brainwashing here. K-Rain makes:
The 450r for Irritrol-like the PGP
The 6100 for Nelson-like the PGP
Part of the Super 800-like the Pro Plus
The CR500 for Irritrol-Like the Pro Plus
The mini-800 for Toro-like the mini pro
Various patents to everyone else

The RPS75 does not have a slip clutch in it as the Pro Plus has. The Pro Plus has the continuous 360', memory arch, slip clutch, 5" pop, center top adjust.
You can take a zip lock bag, take apart a RPS75 and PGP, shake it up, and put 2 totally new rotors together.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:04 PM
Right here..

A few years back with my old company we blew out a 10 Z system with said K rain rotors...Blew it out with a 60 psi Lindsay,I swear zones of the rotors were stuck up....It took us a few minutes to get them all down..Every year that turn on was good for 2 heads that wouldn't turn or retract..

ill pass on the cheap stuff...

RPS75?

Not a single winterizing issue to date.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 07:05 PM
Rep..........

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 07:06 PM
::fires up flame thrower::

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:08 PM
If you know what you're
doing with the compressor and the heads fail, they are junk.

This goes for any rotor. We're talking about little water cooled plastic parts that burn up when you hit it with too much psi. The RPS75 has been through 2 seasons of winterization. If you winterize them the same as you would a PGP, you or anyone would not have issue...generally speaking.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:10 PM
No one is hiding anything. Better get whatever off your chest now while I can still post. I did originally post an introductory thread but was deleted.

I'm ready to take whatever anyone has to dish out.

IF you've installed RPS75's and have a legitimate problem, I'd like to know. K-Rain is not the same as the heads you've pulled out of the ground 5 years ago.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 07:20 PM
::fires up flame thrower::

Fire when ready, Gridley.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 07:22 PM
::fires up flame thrower::

I missed it, congrats on 3K posts without being on everyone's "ignore". :clapping:

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:22 PM
I'm ready when you are:weightlifter:

DanaMac
08-11-2008, 07:23 PM
Wrong, I mentioned it about three weeks ago. :hammerhead:


I said MY first shot at it. Ooooohhh - mikey gets a medal for being the first one this year. :)

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:29 PM
The RPS75 is not cheap alternative. When you buy the RPS, you're buying the impecable support that comes with it.:clapping: haha
It's simply the exact same rotor without the premium price. You're not paying for the development of other products (that's what OEM is for), or the points, etc. It's all up front. No 1099, keeping track of points, etc.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 07:30 PM
I said MY first shot at it. Ooo:)

Well, if I'm thinking winterize, you northern climes guys must be at least be considering thinking about it...the inevitable is coming...dum da dum dum.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:31 PM
right around the corner!

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:32 PM
well, it's getting hot in the flame suit. No questions or comments or is everyone waiting until I get booted?:drinkup:

geardriven
08-11-2008, 07:36 PM
CSR.....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=239478&highlight=krain

In the ground yet? Any thoughts?

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 07:36 PM
Write if you get work.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 07:39 PM
CSR.....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=239478&highlight=krain

In the ground yet? Any thoughts?

Nothing yet hoss.....

My neighbor is installing a system in 1 month where I will put in the valves and heads...@ least I am close to him so I can monitor it...

Im still open to it.but the old Krain is the suck...

DanaMac
08-11-2008, 07:42 PM
Well, if I'm thinking winterize, you northern climes guys must be at least be considering thinking about it...the inevitable is coming...dum da dum dum.

Oh yes. Taking compressors in next week for tune ups, leak repairs, etc. Thinking of how to break it to some people that rates are going up. new postcard, last year's postcard. Etc. Trying to find a THIRD compressor now as well.

Is it official? Why don't you start it...

brookviewlawncare
08-11-2008, 08:14 PM
By "All", you must mean you and your crew, because I dont install disposable products, neither do most of the guys on here.

All I am saying is that quality of all brands have gone down in the last 10 to 15 years

londonrain
08-11-2008, 08:27 PM
The RPS75 is not cheap alternative. When you buy the RPS, you're buying the impecable support that comes with it.:clapping: haha
It's simply the exact same rotor without the premium price. You're not paying for the development of other products (that's what OEM is for), or the points, etc. It's all up front. No 1099, keeping track of points, etc.
Every single rotor that krain has put out on the market has the exact same problems....90% leak, don't retract, quit rotating or all of the above, within a year or two....Krain puts out a new rotor every couple of years and its the same song and dance... now they have the exact same as a PGP... When you service several 1000 systems you know what a junk rotor is. I believe krain made the XL rotor for irritrol and I replaced 10 out of the 13 rotors today...

geardriven
08-11-2008, 08:45 PM
Every single rotor that krain has put out on the market has the exact same problems....90% leak, don't retract, quit rotating or all of the above, within a year or two....Krain puts out a new rotor every couple of years and its the same song and dance... now they have the exact same as a PGP... When you service several 1000 systems you know what a junk rotor is. I believe krain made the XL rotor for irritrol and I replaced 10 out of the 13 rotors today...

No...Toro comes out with a new rotor every year or two. The RPS75 was made 3 years ago. Before that, it's been atleast 7 years. Please enlighten me to the new rotors "every year or two" you speak of.
Have you installed a K-Rain rotor within the last 3 years? Did you read any of the previous posts in this thread? I think I covered all this.:confused:

Please let me know when you have one leaking, sticking up or quit rotating. If you pull the riser out of the can, the date code is stamped on the riser. The first digit is the year.
Let me ask you this. Are you taking them in for warranty if they are within the 5 year warranty? Are you replacing them on service calls and charging at the same time or replacing them under your warranty? If it's a year or two, then you're charging and taking the rotor in for warranty, no? IF that's the case, I'm sure you've never had any issues with the warranty. I wish I were in your area to see your concerns in person....I'm not sure if that would make much difference for you though.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 08:48 PM
Mod Alert>>>beep Beep>>>delete This Thread>

geardriven
08-11-2008, 08:52 PM
haha...Mike, I thought your MO was to modify your post with reasoning being REP?
Why would you call to delete this thread. There's some good information along with corrected false perceptions.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 08:54 PM
dont mind ML he thinks everyone is a piker.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 08:57 PM
haha...
:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 09:22 PM
The RPS75 is not cheap alternative. When you buy the RPS, you're buying the impecable support that comes with it.:clapping:the same support that Yugo automobiles enjoyed, no doubt.

Waterit
08-11-2008, 09:24 PM
haha...Mike, I thought your MO was to modify your post with reasoning being REP?
Why would you call to delete this thread. There's some good information along with corrected false perceptions.

Want to sponsor part of the Irrigator Reunion 2008 to be held somewhere out west later this year? In exchange, we'll do the RPS75-and-PGP-in-a-bag thing while blindfolded in a dark room.

TPendagast
08-11-2008, 09:28 PM
Well Ive winterized KRain systems (Before I even knew what the heck they were) and yea, once I saw the name on the head i thought "Not rain bird. not hunter, its junk"

OF the few Ive winterised.... Id say they dont fail any more or less than anything else.

Now dont get me started on irritrol HS series popups!! I think I can blow wiper seals by blowing through them with a soda straw!

Of course if you are running 120 psi through anything and you wander off to take lunch....anything is going to fail if left open with air going through a water cooled mechanism with high psi for too long.

londonrain
08-11-2008, 09:41 PM
No...Toro comes out with a new rotor every year or two. The RPS75 was made 3 years ago. Before that, it's been atleast 7 years. Please enlighten me to the new rotors "every year or two" you speak of.
Have you installed a K-Rain rotor within the last 3 years? Did you read any of the previous posts in this thread? I think I covered all this.:confused:
Krain makes or made rotors/parts for both toro and irritrol plus a few other and they all are junk and have since been discontinued and for a good reason...
I have installed a RPS75 and the first time I used the back key, adjusting the head it snapped..:rolleyes: How many irrigation systems have you installed or serviced and how many rotor heads have you adjusted or replaced? if you have serviced only a few with krain rotors you know they are junk..enough said....
I serviced a system today that I installed in 1999 with I-20s and every single I-20 is still working perfectly, so I know what a quality rotor is and know what junk is..

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 09:41 PM
I love blowing sprinklers out of the ground 30 feet in the air.

bicmudpuppy
08-11-2008, 09:48 PM
I thought there were RULES about selling products here w/o being a sponsor. Now if he pony's up and PAYS to stay, we are screwed and will have to listen to his tripe about the garbage he is pushing. IT AIN'T exactly like a PGP if you 've only been making them for 3 years. Add a zero to that three and stop back by and tell us what a great product you have. K-Rain reminds me of my OTHER favorite manufacturer...................
Case of NELSON's anyone????????

If your LIFE depends on customer satisfaction, you learn to be twice shy AND when it comes to manufactures like Nelson and K-Rain the old adage ........."fool me once............" applies in spades.

bicmudpuppy
08-11-2008, 09:59 PM
Funny. The biggest fear for most any contractor is the fear of change. That's all this seems to be.
Some corrections to stated info here. There was a single dollar exchanged for the licensing of the shared patent. Mr. Hunter gave Mr. Kah $1. It was something they both developed. Mr. Hunter started making PGP's when he left Toro. Mr. Kah started making indexing valves on the side while he was still working at Pratt & Whitney as an aerospace engineer 34 years ago.
K-Rain is a ISO 9001:2000 Certified Company all the way through. The only rotor manufacturer completely head to toe with this certification.
All K-Rain rotors carry a 5 year warranty.

Orbit was offering 7 years.....Didn't buy any of those either did replace more than a few though, and unlike a quality rotor, I didn't return them for warranty, I tossed them.)

K-Rain is not the first company to have issues with products in the past.
NELSON comes to mind.......right off the top of my head.



K-Rain's manufacturing process and quality control changes in the last 3 years allows them to have the least return rate in the industry-less then half of a percent.
The mid range rotor -MiniPro is soon to be 6" and 12"
The RPS75 is no different than the PGP mechanically, function, performance, reliability. The difference? You pay for the fancy buildings, catalogs, points, etc. with PGP.
So, pony up and take shipping addresses and send everyone who will promise to install a system with them 2 or 3 full cases. Maybe, if they're still working next year, some of them will switch over to the better price point. BUT, if we have to FRONT money to buy what your pushing with K-Rain's track record, it is not only gambling, it is long odds gambling. That isn't fair to the customer, the guys digging the ditches who need their checks to cash next week or OUR own families who like to eat 365 days a year.........all three meals too.


Look at the advertisement by Hunter in the Irrigation & Green Magazine. "They may look like us, they may act like us,

And until your crap doesn't act like CRAP, they are right, with a valid point (see the previous comment. IF it doesn't work, are you going to bail out the guys who go under selling what doesn't work?)

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 10:03 PM
fwiw i think gear driven sent me 1 case valves and 1 case heads i will be putting in this fall....

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 10:14 PM
now if he'd only send you a case of beer....

geardriven
08-11-2008, 10:18 PM
the same support that Yugo automobiles enjoyed, no doubt.

lol...I could have sold Yugo's to the Yugoslavians...j/k

I'd like to think I have a bit more to offer than the sales people of the Yugo pos.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 10:19 PM
now if he'd only send you a case of beer....

I don't sell beer...I give it away:)

All I need are address's.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 10:20 PM
Want to sponsor part of the Irrigator Reunion 2008 to be held somewhere out west later this year? In exchange, we'll do the RPS75-and-PGP-in-a-bag thing while blindfolded in a dark room.

Forward me details.

It would take a couple beers to have the patience to put a rotor together. haha
Too many little freakin parts.:dizzy:

geardriven
08-11-2008, 10:29 PM
Krain makes or made rotors/parts for both toro and irritrol plus a few other and they all are junk and have since been discontinued and for a good reason...
I have installed a RPS75 and the first time I used the back key, adjusting the head it snapped..:rolleyes: How many irrigation systems have you installed or serviced and how many rotor heads have you adjusted or replaced? if you have serviced only a few with krain rotors you know they are junk..enough said....
I serviced a system today that I installed in 1999 with I-20s and every single I-20 is still working perfectly, so I know what a quality rotor is and know what junk is..

What parts does K-Rain make for them....seeing that you're in the know. What's been disco'ed?

I'd have to admit, I hate that key as well. It was made solely to fit in the tubes that are sent out as samples. The new key for the cases will be shipping here soon. Are you basing your decision on the Key alone???:confused: lol...keep using your PGP key to adjust if you desire. It's the same.:)
You don't know squat about me to question my knowledge. Do you keep count of how many heads you adjust or replace? At the same time, I realize you are going to use what you use and you don't like K-Rain. Feel free to have last licks. I suppose you've NEVER replaced an I20. I think I missed where someone has questioned your knowledge here.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 10:37 PM
So, pony up and take shipping addresses and send everyone who will promise to install a system with them 2 or 3 full cases. Maybe, if they're still working next year, some of them will switch over to the better price point. BUT, if we have to FRONT money to buy what your pushing with K-Rain's track record, it is not only gambling, it is long odds gambling.
IF it doesn't work, are you going to bail out the guys who go under selling what doesn't work?)

BTW...There are some installing them as you mention. PM me your addy. That's all I ask of people. Install them objectively as you would anything else you use.
K-Rain's track record? Please name ONE manufacturer that hasn't had an issue with any of their product.
Support is key. IF a contractor goes under b/c of a couple residential jobs, they were on their way out anyways. Did RB's DV recall, ESPM recall, Hunter's PRO C, etc. etc. etc. run you out of business? Some of you act like NOTHING fails out there except for K-Rain. Naive, yet loyal.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 10:38 PM
fwiw i think gear driven sent me 1 case valves and 1 case heads i will be putting in this fall....

That's all I ask.....is to give em a whirl!

DanaMac
08-11-2008, 10:51 PM
Are you going to pay us gobs of money to replace them, just as RB did with the TBirds? And give us new heads? Heck I even replaced some of the TBirds with PGPs that my supplier gave me instead because they knew how pissed we were. And was paid to replace them.

hoskm01
08-11-2008, 11:15 PM
Sorry for all the posts. I'm getting in what I can. The inevitable is near.*trucewhiteflag*
I'd give it a chance, were you to come to the Union (not a re-union since weve never been unionized before, kind of like having smores... how can you have s'more if you havent had any yet) ANYWAY.

Colorado, likely winter after blowouts. Some resortish town, scenery, and outdoor controllers to play with. Oh, and Beer.

Ive got maybe 10k rotors in the ground for next year, Im sure I could try some K here and there. Again, only if its backed with replacement cost including labor.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 11:27 PM
Haha...I've seen you post that before.:dancing:

I suppose it has your attention though.

geardriven
08-11-2008, 11:33 PM
You CO boys stick together huh. I was in CO last year for a show in Denver.
You lost me at smores:) I suppose you can't have S'More if you haven't had any...then again, you can always have S'more beer.

So which is it? You want free rotors to try or you want to purchase some with the support and backing etc? We can do either. LL Johnson sells K-Rain in CO.

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 11:38 PM
Umm, is there some reason for not simply signing up as a sponsor here? That would seem to be a more honest approach.

londonrain
08-12-2008, 12:17 AM
Send me a case and I will give a honest review....
Does krain still sell the dial a nozzle?

Waterit
08-12-2008, 12:27 AM
GUYS, YOU'RE MISSING AN IMPORTANT POINT HERE:


Want to sponsor part of the Irrigator Reunion 2008 to be held somewhere out west later this year?

Forward me details.

AI Inc
08-12-2008, 06:00 AM
So have the folks at Krain learned to ship the heads without a factory installed nozzle this time around? That always pissed me off that I had to take a nozzle out to put inthe 1 I wanted. A time waster. What about nozzle selection, does the nozzle rack include all the sizes that a pgp does?

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-12-2008, 06:33 AM
the dude will send you rotors.....and valves.

Wet_Boots
08-12-2008, 06:42 AM
They're sure to be worth every penny you paid for them.

hoskm01
08-12-2008, 08:31 AM
So which is it? You want free rotors to try or you want to purchase some with the support and backing etc? We can do either. LL Johnson sells K-Rain in CO.



So you want to hock your brand here, I am willing to TRY them, but I have to show you my receipt when I send the crappers back to you?

I'll stick with replacing same-same at our properties, and we aint got no properties with K-rain.

Wet_Boots
08-12-2008, 08:33 AM
"K-Rain - for a sprinkler that will almost last as long as this thread!"

TPendagast
08-12-2008, 08:41 AM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I was going to say something.

I thought this was dead a bit ago.

wasnt It started by a homeowner who was doing a self install and wanted to know opinions about them?

DanaMac
08-12-2008, 08:43 AM
wasnt It started by a homeowner who was doing a self install and wanted to know opinions about them?

Nope. OP has 500 posts. Joined LS in 2003.

To each his own on choice. I personally will use the products that I feel comfortable with, and have relied on.

Michael J. Donovan
08-12-2008, 12:59 PM
I think most will agree that this thread can be put to rest now