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phareous
08-04-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm a homeowner looking to build my own manifold. I've read most of the posts on here and everyone has an opinion on how to do it. Since all of you have a lot of experience in this area, can you provide any advice on how I should do it? I've read to use female-threaded valves and not have any female fittings on the manifold itself. Also I've read I should use unions to make it easier to disassemble to repair (where should I put the unions - just on the input/ouput of each valve?). And I know I need to not make it too compact (I see the Boots manifold picture posted a lot). Thanks in advance for any help

DanaMac
08-04-2008, 08:58 AM
And I know I need to not make it too compact (I see the Boots manifold picture posted a lot).

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: yes! yes! yes!!!!! :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 09:01 AM
Naysayers!! :) Compact manifolds can be a mixed bag. Mine can be serviced. I see that Rainbird is offering a version of their DV-series valve with a female-threaded-union inlet and outlet.

Waterit
08-04-2008, 09:02 AM
Compact manifolds can be a mixed bag. Mine can be serviced. I see that Rainbird is offering a version of their DV-series valve with a female-threaded-union inlet and outlet.

Tried one of those last week, had trouble with unions leaking, cut it out and went to straight PVC. No leaks.

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 09:09 AM
Tried one of those last week, had trouble with unions leaking, cut it out and went to straight PVC. No leaks.It probably depends on O-rings and some consistency on the male threads on the manifolds. The latter might be too much to hope for. It does seem like the union-type manifolds have a better shot, because the MPT valve inlets are probably more consistent.

Kiril
08-04-2008, 09:16 AM
Typically I build my manifolds out of SCH80 pipe & tees with SCH80 toe nipples or male adapters into the valves, with a SCH80 union on mainline. You don't necessarily have to use SCH80, I do for durability except when using crosses (cost) and on throw away fittings.

If the valve box is large enough, I might consider using unions on the downstream piping to facilitate valve replacement. Unions on the downstream piping are easier to fit into a valve box when you use angle valves.

Mike Leary
08-04-2008, 09:22 AM
Nice clean manifolds, Kiril. :clapping:

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 09:28 AM
Bricks?!! :dizzy:

Kiril
08-04-2008, 09:32 AM
Bricks?!! :dizzy:

Yes ... those manifolds are close to 18" deep. Have any other suggestions without leaving a tripping hazard on the surface or burying the box?

Mike Leary
08-04-2008, 09:34 AM
Yes ... those manifolds are close to 18" deep. Have any other suggestions without leaving a tripping hazard on the surface or burying the box?

I've done it the same way, though the unions are a moot point without
having them on the lateral side.

AI Inc
08-04-2008, 09:34 AM
[QUOTE=Kiril;2450191]Yes ... those manifolds are close to 18" deep. QUOTE]

Did someone tell you there was buried treasure down there somewhere?

Kiril
08-04-2008, 09:38 AM
I've done it the same way, though the unions are a moot point without
having them on the lateral side.

I put the union in on the mainline so I can pull the manifold without cutting into the mainline. Yes, no unions on downstream side does mean you will have to dig and cut, but at least you won't be cutting into constant pressure line.

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 09:39 AM
Yes ... those manifolds are close to 18" deep. Have any other suggestions without leaving a tripping hazard on the surface or burying the box?I think they call them "valve box extensions" :p

Mike Leary
08-04-2008, 09:40 AM
I don't know if I've ever had a valve body go south.

AI Inc
08-04-2008, 09:42 AM
I don't know if I've ever had a valve body go south.

Only ones Ive done were run over by a dump truck during pool/ septic/ect construction.

Even if the valves suck , we will cut in front of valve box thread of and thread on a new valve or valves.

Kiril
08-04-2008, 09:54 AM
I think they call them "valve box extensions" :p

I know what an extension is. If you don't have anything meaningful to say, then don't say anything at all. :rolleyes:

Wet_Boots
08-04-2008, 10:01 AM
I know what an extension is. If you don't have anything meaningful to say, then don't say anything at all. :rolleyes:

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/7747/triumphwekidrt9.jpg

phareous
08-04-2008, 10:17 AM
Well I'm a bit torn on whether or not to use unions

I know they make it easier to replace a valve, but in this thread it's been mentioned that valve bodies don't fail that often. And also I've seen elsewhere that unions increase the chance of leaks.

AI Inc
08-04-2008, 10:19 AM
Well I'm a bit torn on whether or not to use unions

I know they make it easier to replace a valve, but in this thread it's been mentioned that valve bodies don't fail that often. And also I've seen elsewhere that unions increase the chance of leaks.

Ive installed over 1200 manifolds . Out of them ive replaced maybe 4. Ive never used a union on one and never intend to.

Kiril
08-04-2008, 10:38 AM
Ive installed over 1200 manifolds . Out of them ive replaced maybe 4. Ive never used a union on one and never intend to.

I have done it both ways, and have never had to replace a manifold I built.
Same can be said for the valve bodies, rarely even see those fail either.

For what it's worth, I almost never see a Spears SCH80 union leak
providing the mating surfaces are clean and the O-ring is in good condition.

phareous
08-04-2008, 10:51 AM
I guess I'm decided on not using unions. But should I get the slip valves or the ones with the threads? (A lot of the pictures seem to show the ones with the threads).

Kiril
08-04-2008, 10:58 AM
I guess I'm decided on not using unions. But should I get the slip valves or the ones with the threads? (A lot of the pictures seem to show the ones with the threads).

I like things I can take apart and repair/replace with a minimum of effort and waste. If a valve body go bad, and it does happen, it will be far easier to repair with threaded valves vs. slip

Dirty Water
08-04-2008, 11:16 AM
Yes ... those manifolds are close to 18" deep. Have any other suggestions without leaving a tripping hazard on the surface or burying the box?

Carson boxes stack, and that works a lot better than an extension box.

Kiril
08-04-2008, 11:37 AM
Carson boxes stack, and that works a lot better than an extension box.

Yes they do, however that is a pretty expensive option to raise a valve box a couple of inches compared to using bricks that are free. :)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using bricks to raise a valve box, especially in areas that will only see foot traffic. Heck, the city uses bricks for their curb side meter boxes.

WalkGood
08-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Yes they do, however that is a pretty expensive option to raise a valve box a couple of inches compared to using bricks that are free. :)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using bricks to raise a valve box, especially in areas that will only see foot traffic. Heck, the city uses bricks for their curb side meter boxes.

I do not have a problem with the bricks under the VB edges. Maybe it is regional soil situation but they also do keep a box from sinking into the soil.

Question tho, do you cut notches into the vb edges for the pipes? How do you keep the soil from back filling under the box? Again, maybe a regional soil condition situation.

Kiril
08-04-2008, 12:02 PM
Maybe it is regional soil situation but they also do keep a box from sinking into the soil.

I agree. Better weight distribution when dealing with compressible soils.

Question tho, do you cut notches into the vb edges for the pipes?

Only when necessary.

How do you keep the soil from back filling under the box?

geotextile

WalkGood
08-04-2008, 01:29 PM
geotextile





Any installed pics?

Kiril
08-04-2008, 02:08 PM
Install of the geotextile ... not really. If I have the time I'll take some pics of valves I'm working on this week when I backfill the boxes. This is one of the 8 valve setup after partial backfill.

Mike Leary
08-04-2008, 03:17 PM
This is one of the 8 valve setup after partial backfill.

Hey, how come no boots in the pic? Whops, my bad.:rolleyes:

WalkGood
08-04-2008, 03:48 PM
Hey, how come no boots in the pic? Whops, my bad.:rolleyes:

Is this better?

Waterit
08-04-2008, 04:07 PM
should I get the slip valves or the ones with the threads?

I likw slip - a correctly glued joint will never leak.

Yes they do, however that is a pretty expensive option to raise a valve box a couple of inches compared to using bricks that are free. :)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using bricks to raise a valve box, especially in areas that will only see foot traffic. Heck, the city uses bricks for their curb side meter boxes.

In commercial work they often specify using bricks on the corners of the VB's for support.

Hey, how come no boots in the pic? Whops, my bad.:rolleyes:

Right, like Kiril would have a pic of Boots anywhere other than down-range.:laugh:

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-04-2008, 10:40 PM
Kiril posted working pictures. Boots posted a cigar smoking dog.

Kiril 1 Boots zero

bicmudpuppy
08-05-2008, 12:32 AM
I don't know if I've ever had a valve body go south.

The one valve body I've had trouble with over the years is the silver bullet. They seem to like to split out at the bottom with some age. It is also very possible they don't winterize as well as some valves. (possibly a small amount of water left in the bottom could be the culprit).

AI Inc
08-05-2008, 05:48 AM
I had em become so coated in ironthat even rebuilding it , it will have problems again within a yr or so.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-05-2008, 06:58 AM
The one valve body I've had trouble with over the years is the silver bullet. They seem to like to split out at the bottom with some age. It is also very possible they don't winterize as well as some valves. (possibly a small amount of water left in the bottom could be the culprit).

Ditto... I've also had the RB PEB valve get body cracks as well. Only plastic valve that I know of that I didn't have to replace the body for some reason is the venerable 205. I do prefer reverse flow though. We use the DVFs.

Kiril
08-11-2008, 10:25 AM
Any installed pics?

Took some pics using geotextile to keep soil out of your VB for ya.

Fill soil in around pipes outside the box to make it easier to settle without voids.

1) Cut for fitting around VB. If your cuts are accurate, the geotextile will fit like a glove
2) fitting the geotextile, initial backfill and tucking/filling in voids
3) backfilled, watered, and compacted
4 & 5) VB interior shots, ready for final wiring and gravel

londonrain
08-11-2008, 12:45 PM
I would rather have dirt in the valve box than try and dig that geotextile out in a few years .
I tried digging some geotextile out but ended up having to cut it out and that was not even easy. I cussed the installer, whoever he was, for installing it. NOT service friendly stuff......

Kiril
08-11-2008, 01:13 PM
Agreed .... not the most service friendly unless your planning on pulling the entire VB.
Nothing a box knife won't cure in a hurry though. :)

WalkGood
08-11-2008, 01:24 PM
Took some pics using geotextile to keep soil out of your VB for ya.



Thanks for remembering! :drinkup:


Ever lay the fabric UNDER the valves and box too, up the sides (on outside) and then gravel ontop?


Someone here (last year maybe?), posted pics with 1/4" wire mesh under the VB to (try to) keep rodents out.

Kiril
08-11-2008, 01:35 PM
Ever lay the fabric UNDER the valves and box too, up the sides (on outside) and then gravel ontop?

No. Problem with that is getting it around all the pipes entering/exiting the VB.
I might add I would rather have a clean VB for servicing valves than the occasional hassle of dealing with fabric outside the box.

Someone here (last year maybe?), posted pics with 1/4" wire mesh under the VB to (try to) keep rodents out.

Don't really have many burrowing rodent problems around here, so no mesh for me.

lowvolumejeff
08-11-2008, 01:49 PM
Very neat and looks easy, and may be just the thing for my glacial till soils.

Thanks for sharing. Jeff

Waterit
08-11-2008, 01:55 PM
Someone here (last year maybe?), posted pics with 1/4" wire mesh under the VB to (try to) keep rodents out.

It only feels like it was last year.

The pic was a recent Leary post, I forget what thread it was under.

We use 1' wide tyvek that I found at a building supply (not a big-box) to block off the sides of the VB and control the infill. It's worked out pretty well, not too bad to dig up, either.

Kiril
08-11-2008, 01:58 PM
It only feels like it was last year.

The pic was a recent Leary post, I forget what thread it was under.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=2454094&postcount=24


We use 1' wide tyvek that I found at a building supply (not a big-box) to block off the sides of the VB and control the infill. It's worked out pretty well, not too bad to dig up, either.

How does that stuff hold up in the soil?

WalkGood
08-11-2008, 02:25 PM
It only feels like it was last year.

The pic was a recent Leary post, I forget what thread it was under.



I had forgot about that post from last week. Actually I was recalling a different post from last year or maybe two years ago, heavier gauge mesh was used. Longer discussion about rodents/gophers chewing on VB and stuff.

Waterit
08-11-2008, 02:33 PM
[QUOTE=Kiril;2461394How does that stuff hold up in the soil?[/QUOTE]

Holds up pretty well, as long as it has no UV exposure. I've gone back to systems I did 15+ years ago when I first started using the stuff and dug it up intact, then just re-buried it. The only negative is that it doesn't let the water OUT of the VB. Usually put some gravel in bottom of pit for that.

Started out using shingles, but they got brittle. Next tried erosion fence - PITA. Weed mat - PITA. Saw the tyvek when picking up materials for a home-addition project, tried it, have used it ever since.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 06:04 PM
Nice Vb kiril...I would don't care for the Geo stuff but hey...