PDA

View Full Version : Recommendations please – soil sample results >>


platinum
08-05-2008, 09:29 PM
Newbie to real lawn care so here is the scoop. I am looking for an overall healthier looking lawn and color.

History:
Columbus, Ohio (zone 6, I believe) New home, lawn was installed July of 07’. Watered to death the first couple of months, lots of weeds, crabgrass etc.. not much real grass. Called True-Green September of 07’, they came out and treated and “winterized”.

This spring 08’, grass came back fairly well. No weeds, etc.. 100% better than last season. True-Green has completed 4 or 5 treatments already this year with the latest being a post emergent weed control. Don’t know the application rates of NPK

I have been watering fairly deep at the rate of 3 times per week. I am using a cheap soil moister meter to determine when to water and how much. Even though grass has been fairly healthy at least compared to last year it always has a yellowish tint to it. Added some Lesco 0.0.0 20%fe granular iron which seemed to help and the lawn is at least on par with others in the neiboorhood. This lasted 4-6 weeks and I the yellowing started to come back.

I decided to get a soil sample. I have not picked up the datasheet yet, but here is what I was told.

Ph of 7.8 (very high I believe)
(n)Nitrogen and (k)Potassium were normal
(p) phosphorus was extremely low
Recommendations (n, 3.5-4.5lb per 1000, p, 3.0lb per 1000, k .075lb per 1000)

see attachments belowfor pictures of grass today.

Ideas

Drop True-Green. I am learning too much not to try it myself.
Finish off year with some starter fertilizer since it’s higher in phosphorus.
Aerate and over-seed and fertilize again in mid November/December
09’ follow lescos 5-step recommended turf program


Let me know what your thoughts are and anything else I should try.

Appreciate the help...

RigglePLC
08-05-2008, 09:54 PM
Amazing for a new lawn. I suspect you have a little dollarspot. Also look carefully at the lawn--is it greener in the shade? Then it is sunburn--needs more water in sunny areas.

At what level are you setting the moisture according to your meter? Low--medium--high?

I would not go overboard on the Phosphorus--grass doesn't need much (soil tests are sometimes designed for corn). 20 lbs per acre is probably adequate. The iron may be helpful when soil pH is high. Keep it up.

Remember you hired a professional company for their knowledge and their program and equipment. Don't be surprised if you have a few problems doing it yourself. Educate yourself-learn from your mistakes. Plan on crabgrass control in April and weed control about June and September.

PSUturf
08-05-2008, 10:09 PM
The first picture looks like drought stress. It's hard to tell from the pictures. Get yourself a soil probe instead of using a soil moisture meter, they're not reliable. Pulling a 4-6" soil core is the best way to check for moisture in the root zone; that's how a golf course superintendent determines if the turf needs to be watered.

New lawns usually take close to 2 years to mature. Many problems with new lawns have to do with the root system. There is usually a lot of compacted soil around a new house. Aerifying in spring and fall will definitely help grow more roots. Aerify after a significant rainfall or irrigation event so that the tines can penetrate to their maximum depth. Make at least 2 or 3 passes over the lawn with the aerifier; it won't hurt the grass to go over it multiple times.

If you are going to do the fertilizing yourself use slow release fertilizer. Polymer sulfur coated urea and Novex are the slowest release products that Lesco carries. They are probably the most expensive but are the best for the lawn. These slow release products release fertilizer uniformly over a relatively long period of time. Always try to avoid periods of feast or famine for the turf which occur when using cheap fertilizer or Trugreen. Ringer Lawn Restore is another good slow release fertilizer. It also contains beneficial micro organisms which have been shown to reduce the severity of certain turf diseases.

platinum
08-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Thanks for the feedback so far. The grass does look better in shaded areas but I feel like I water the heck out of it. The meter I use is a scale of 1 -10, 10 being wet. I wait until the grass is at a 3-4 which normally takes a couple days after watering. I water until its at a 8-9 but it very well could be the watering. I will look into a soil probe and hit the sunny areas more.

Any issues with the PH level? Im worried about the uptake of what True-Green has put down so far. My understanding is higher the PH the harder it is for the lawn to get the nutrients it needs.

thanks again!

CBramble
08-05-2008, 11:00 PM
"Any issues with the PH level? Im worried about the uptake of what True-Green has put down so far. My understanding is higher the PH the harder it is for the lawn to get the nutrients it needs."

Correct. Not necessarily higher though. Lower is just as bad. Optimum pH is roughly 6.8. Proper pH plays a vital part of nutrient uptake in plants. With a pH of 7.8 Iron is not readily available. Get the pH in the proper range and see what it looks like from there.

mngrassguy
08-06-2008, 01:58 AM
All above is good advise.

You say "deep" watering and using a meter tells me you don't know how much water it's getting. Measure each zone with a rain gage or a tuna can. Lawn should get 1/2-1" per week. Water in the early morning, NEVER in the evening. Grass should be dry before it gets dark.

How tall are you mowing? How often? Never cut shorter than 3.5" except spring and fall. Mow often enough so you never cut off more than 1/3 of the blade. Only bag first cut in the spring, last in the fall.

Seed between Aug 15 and Sept 15. Only use starter fert when seeding and first app after seeding.

Good Luck

heritage
08-06-2008, 05:42 AM
All above is good advise.

You say "deep" watering and using a meter tells me you don't know how much water it's getting. Measure each zone with a rain gage or a tuna can. Lawn should get 1/2-1" per week. Water in the early morning, NEVER in the evening. Grass should be dry before it gets dark.

How tall are you mowing? How often? Never cut shorter than 3.5" except spring and fall. Mow often enough so you never cut off more than 1/3 of the blade. Only bag first cut in the spring, last in the fall.

Seed between Aug 15 and Sept 15. Only use starter fert when seeding and first app after seeding.

Good Luck


All great advice here.

Also you need to know what is "Driving" your P.H. up???

I use Logan Labs LLC. and their methods show "Base Saturation Percentage" and tells you what element is driving the PH up.

They can help you read the result too and get the Cations in their proper % Balance.

This will help you a lot. They charge 20 bucks for a sample, and results available online in 2-3 days after they recieve the sample, so long as the dirt's not too wet.

Definatly mow higher....Measure "Actual" height of cut after mowing....3-3.5 June-Sept is what you want to see.

Don't trust mower Bench settings, as depending on mower weight and other factors, often wrong and run on the Short Side.

Pete

platinum
08-06-2008, 10:44 AM
good stuff guys...

What is the best way to lower ph correctly? I’m not sure if the soil sample i got will explain what is driving the PH up, but I will look once I receive the datasheet later this week. Since iron is not readily available at my ph level should i supplement with iron regularly. If so how much? can/will this interfer with what True-Green is putting down.

I mow at the highest mower setting I have (Honda HRX series) which I believe is 3.5”. If it’s not how would I get it higher since I am at the highest setting? I mow at least twice a week trying to only 1/3 of blade. I am sure it’s more or less sometimes though. I also do not bag the clippings.

I will try a rain gauge when water to ensure I am getting at least a 1” per week in various zones. If I am not already im going to need a deduct water meter. My water bill is already expensive. :rolleyes:

Frank Fescue
08-06-2008, 11:30 AM
Dont think too hard. Focus on the dollar spot first you have a ton of it. Read up on it. I think if you quell that you're going to be pretty happy with what you have.

platinum
08-06-2008, 11:51 AM
will do. are we sure its dollar spot though? I dont have any lesions and the whole blade is the yellow color not just portions. i have also checked the blades for fungus or cobweb looking blades in the early morning when dew is present.

platinum
08-06-2008, 01:29 PM
Was emailed my soil sample. see attachement below.

heritage
08-06-2008, 06:47 PM
Was emailed my soil sample. see attachement below.

Apply 10 lbs of "Granular Sulfur" per 1,000 sq Ft, soon as things start to cool off in sept. When the Sulfur converts to Sulfate, acid forms that will put the EXCESS Calcium in solution, with adaquate rainfall/Irrigation.....This Lower's PH.

Also consider using a fert like 24-5-11 50 PPSCU, as it will get your Potassium (K) up...(I think your test tells me LOW for my likeing) and it has over 3% "Free Sulfur" in it, and slowly raise up the Phos too, which has a large effect on Plant Energy.

Retest in the spring @ 6" soil depth @3 different area locations Minimum.


Pete

platinum
08-11-2008, 04:23 PM
OK... quick update. Probably won’t have another until next application.

I got some timers for my sprinklers so I can water in the early morning and more frequently. Using a rain gauge during watering your assumptions were correct on not enough water in the sunny areas. I was watering 2-3 times a week but only at .2 inches each time. I still would like to get a soil probe for more accurate readings. Do you have suggestions for a cheap residential one?

True-Green was terminated and 18-24-12 put down to help increase the phosphorus. Talking with a local Lesco rep this also has 3% free Sulfer which will help with my high PH level.

Ill keep you posted…

heritage
08-11-2008, 07:15 PM
OK... quick update. Probably won’t have another until next application.

I got some timers for my sprinklers so I can water in the early morning and more frequently. Using a rain gauge during watering your assumptions were correct on not enough water in the sunny areas. I was watering 2-3 times a week but only at .2 inches each time. I still would like to get a soil probe for more accurate readings. Do you have suggestions for a cheap residential one?

True-Green was terminated and 18-24-12 put down to help increase the phosphorus. Talking with a local Lesco rep this also has 3% free Sulfer which will help with my high PH level.

Ill keep you posted…


Great.

How many pounds of the starter fert per 1,000? 3 or 4?

Also keep your watering times between Midnight and 6am. This helps keep the extended leaf wetness period under 10 hours and less disease :)



Pete

platinum
08-11-2008, 10:16 PM
A little over 4lb per 1000. First time using the spreader so I believe that is right. I used half the 50lb bag on a little under 6000 sq foot. The recommended applicatoin rate was 4.2

your thoughts?

heritage
08-11-2008, 11:12 PM
A little over 4lb per 1000. First time using the spreader so I believe that is right. I used half the 50lb bag on a little under 6000 sq foot. The recommended applicatoin rate was 4.2

your thoughts?

So applying @ 4 Lbs per acre and 3% Free Sulfur is minamal S.......5.25 Lbs Actual S per Acre.

So Plan on an app of Granular S (90% Sulfur), at least 5 lbs per 1,000, upwards to 10 Lbs per 1,000 In Early Sept when it cools a bit more.

Then in Early October apply 24-5-11 50%PPSCU @ 4 Lbs per 1,000.

By Mid Oct thru Mid November you will see a deeper and deeper GREEN, and A big part will be the Fe,Mn becoming More "Soluable" and available to the turf, with the xtra N and K to go right along with it!

Follow this and STOP irrigation Early to Mid October.



Enjoy and can't wait to see the Before and After Pic's too :)

Pete

Plant Wizard
08-12-2008, 12:24 AM
Look up "brown patch". You have some blue-green blades in a circle, with the tan blades in the middle. Circles are 4 to 8 inches in diameter. Is your soil sandy or clay like?
Brown patch= sign of too much water. Improve soil structure with a gypsum application at 40 lbs per 1,000 sq ft. Clay soils will require more applications. Change your watering time to early evening. This gives the lawn all night to perk or drain before the morning sun comes up and cooks the roots. Yes people, a foliar dissease could occur but at least you still have a plant under it, to mow off another day.
pH= airify this fall and apply elemental sulfur at 5 lbs per 1,000 sq ft. This will drop a sandy soil about 1.0 on the pH scale. Clay soils will drop 0.5, and require more applications after airating. Thats why a complete soil test that measures Ca, Mg, Fe, MN, Zn, ect. is better. All metals are commonly combined with sulfer (FeSO4, your question on iron) and will lower the pH but to a lesser extent than the elemental sulfur. In MN we have an abundent supply of iron in the soil, but its tied up with the phosphorous. Dropping our pH makes both of the nutrients more available. Then we find from the soil reports that Manganese is deficient and once added to the soil, disseases are less frequent.

Plant Wizard
08-12-2008, 12:49 AM
Did you bring in top soil? How deep?
From your soils report, it seems you have very poor drainage. A CEC of 22 that is acting like a CEC of 50 or straight clay.
A soil remediator like these non hazerdous acids people are talking about (Eximo) would be my first application. (You don't need the gypsum according to the soils report.)
P=1.5 lbs/1,000. If you are using Lesco's starter 18-24-12 apply upto 5 lbs per 1,000.
K=6.3 lbs/1,000. Try using a 1:1 ratio of nitrogen to potash fertilizer.
pH=25 lbs sulfur/1,000 sq. ft. No more than 5 lbs per 1,000 per application.
This may drastically change after the acid treatments. Re soil test a couple weeks after you've made a couple of treatments.

platinum
08-12-2008, 10:22 AM
Heritage,
So I was planning on aerating and over seeding in mid September. Should the rest of my applications for this year look similar to below?

Early September – Sulfer, 5lbs per 1000
Mid September – aerate and over seed with 18-24-12 application
Mid October – 24-5-11 application
November – Stop Irrigation


Jerry,
I did not bring in topsoil and I would agree with the poor drainage. Will the aeration help with this?

heritage
08-12-2008, 11:45 AM
Heritage,
So I was planning on aerating and over seeding in mid September. Should the rest of my applications for this year look similar to below?

Early September – Sulfer, 5lbs per 1000
Mid September – aerate and over seed with 18-24-12 application
Mid October – 24-5-11 application
November – Stop Irrigation


Jerry,
I did not bring in topsoil and I would agree with the poor drainage. Will the aeration help with this?

Looks good :)

Post some pics one beginning each month...Sept,Oct,Nov.

You will be happy.

What seed are you seeding with?

Pete

platinum
08-12-2008, 12:03 PM
Dont know yet. I would assume some blend of bluegrass, fescue and ryegrass.

any recommendations?

heritage
08-12-2008, 12:26 PM
Dont know yet. I would assume some blend of bluegrass, fescue and ryegrass.

any recommendations?

Looks like you have an existing stand of KB and Tall Fescue.

Even though it IS NOT "Blue Tag Certified" I would use the Lesco Double Eagle Rye blend.

It comes up fast, and has a Dark Green COLOR and low growth habit :)

If you decide to seed in KB insted, use a blend that has 3 or more different KB's in it, and dont expect to see the results of the KB till next June....It's a slow starter.

I would go with the double eagle 2-3 lbs per 1,000 overseed.

Pete

platinum
09-03-2008, 07:51 PM
As promised here is the Monthly update. The following has taken place.


watering early morning, 4am-8am with about 1.2-1.5 inches of water per week.
80% sulfur, 3.5FE, 1.5 MN down about a week ago.


Grass looks better but still has some yellow blades throughout. It has rained once in the past 6-7 weeks here with 85+ days, so I guess I should expect some yellow.

The blades almost look like my mower blade is not sharp enough but it’s a new blade as of 10 cuts ago.

Regardless of water applied it does not get deep into soil. Seems like the soil is very compacted and rocky. I am hoping aeration will help with this.

Attached is a pic of the yard compared to 95% of the neighbors and a close up.

Aeration and overseeding should be within a few weeks.

platinum
09-03-2008, 07:54 PM
and the attachments

Plant Wizard
09-03-2008, 11:18 PM
I had recommended 5 applications of elemental sulfur at 5 lbs per 1,000 sq ft.
You only show one application in your fall program.
I guess you like yellow turf. :hammerhead: Make at least 2 applications this fall.
Also sounds like the Lesco rep really needs you to apply the 24-5-11.
Two applications of a 15-0-30 or a 1 to 2 nitrogen to potash ratio would be the best choice for this fall. Otherwise before the heat of 2009 hits, make two applications of 0-0-50 (sulfate of potash) at 5 lbs per 1,000 sq ft.:weightlifter:
Also in 2009 make 3 more applications of elemental sulfur.
Even the Lesco seed will look better once the pH is lowered.
But then your original seed was probable just as good. Lesco makes another sale.:dizzy:

platinum
09-04-2008, 08:16 AM
Since I just put down the sulfur app can I do it again or should I wait a certain period before another app?

Lesco has not recommended any fert. I have been going off information received here. Should I change out my fall app to something with less N and more K. I thought you wanted a higher shot of N before the winter.

Thanks for the reply!

Plant Wizard
09-04-2008, 09:21 AM
Leave 2 weeks between the sulfur treatments.
Its ok to apply your 18-24-12 at the same time.
Always water in fertilizers.
Other fertilizer, use a 1 part nitrogen to 2 parts potassium, two times this fall.
That will balance your soil. Example: 15-0-30, 13-0-26.
Just keep the turf as green as possible for as long as possible this fall.
I steer customers into fast release so that all the fertilizer is available for the roots. Slow release is not a problem.
If you can't find a 1:2 ratio fertilizer, plan on making 2 applications of 0-0-50 at 5 lbs per 1,000 sq ft between now and June of '09. This is a potash treatment which is your dissease and drought resistence. Also make 3 more sulfur treatments next year.
Your lawn is looking good! Change your watering time to evenings. :usflag:

platinum
09-04-2008, 10:47 AM
Good info...

You recommend watering in the evenings? My understanding is if the blades stay wet for more than 8-10 hrs it will increase the chance for disease and water at night would be conducive of that.

Sorry for the questions, just trying to learn.

RigglePLC
09-04-2008, 01:16 PM
Good advice Heritage Pete. IMHO--you will be happy with Lesco 24-5-11. September and October--apply November also for maximum thickness and green. Disease problems, like dollarspot, will disappear when weather cools down below 80. And I think you are right Platinum, you do not want the grass wet all night--because of the chance of disease (dollarspot). Your moisture meter is a good idea--for best results keep moisture a little higher--say at about 7--representing about 70 percent of saturation--very roughly. And your original seed was probaly an inexpensive blend. You want vigorous, dark green, multiple disease resistant, insect resistant. The Lesco Double Eagle is excellent--HOWEVER--if you are a perfectionist (you guys know who you are), The National Turfgrass Evaluation Program just came out with test results for for over a hundred perennial ryegrass cultivars. The National Champion was Allstar3. Almost tied with Allstar3 were, Amazing, Uno, Zoom and Derby Xtreme. Silver dollar had a great dollarspot resistance score. http://ntep.org/

heritage
09-04-2008, 07:01 PM
As promised here is the Monthly update. The following has taken place.


watering early morning, 4am-8am with about 1.2-1.5 inches of water per week.
80% sulfur, 3.5FE, 1.5 MN down about a week ago.


Grass looks better but still has some yellow blades throughout. It has rained once in the past 6-7 weeks here with 85+ days, so I guess I should expect some yellow.

The blades almost look like my mower blade is not sharp enough but it’s a new blade as of 10 cuts ago.

Regardless of water applied it does not get deep into soil. Seems like the soil is very compacted and rocky. I am hoping aeration will help with this.

Attached is a pic of the yard compared to 95% of the neighbors and a close up.

Aeration and overseeding should be within a few weeks.

Platinum,

You are on your way to better turf.....Good Job! :)


The few yellow blades will be gone soon, and Don't water past 6AM....You DO NOT want to extend the leaf wetness period.

Looks much improved.

Wait till Oct 15th........It should be DARK DARK GREEN :)

Great Job again,

Pete

Plant Wizard
09-04-2008, 08:41 PM
Good info...

You recommend watering in the evenings? My understanding is if the blades stay wet for more than 8-10 hrs it will increase the chance for disease and water at night would be conducive of that.

Sorry for the questions, just trying to learn.

Gee, if the blades are wet the leaf could get a dissease. But you mow the leaf off because the grass grows from the crown sitting at the soil surface.
According to the Mitchell company, while working on a new product to reduce dew formation (called Dew Cure) turf wetness runs from 10 pm through 10 am. What concearns me is when you water upto 6 am, then the sun comes out, what do you have? Water, Roots, Heat...Root Soup.
No roots, no blades of grass. Buy more seed. :walking:
Air is the best insulator in the world. So having the sprinklers shut off say by 2 am gives you 4 hours for the water to drain creating an air gap between the surface and the roots. No heat trafer, no root soup.:)

heritage
09-04-2008, 11:02 PM
Gee, if the blades are wet the leaf could get a dissease. But you mow the leaf off because the grass grows from the crown sitting at the soil surface.
According to the Mitchell company, while working on a new product to reduce dew formation (called Dew Cure) turf wetness runs from 10 pm through 10 am. What concearns me is when you water upto 6 am, then the sun comes out, what do you have? Water, Roots, Heat...Root Soup.
No roots, no blades of grass. Buy more seed. :walking:
Air is the best insulator in the world. So having the sprinklers shut off say by 2 am gives you 4 hours for the water to drain creating an air gap between the surface and the roots. No heat trafer, no root soup.:)

Jerry,

The midnight-6am is RUTGERS University's standard. Their Tufrgrass Science Professors are Regarded as some of the Best.

Never heard "Root Soup" before.

AnAerobic soil conditions are bad, agree But LOOK at ALL the Reflective Heat Sources on that parcel of turf..........Do you think there is lots of Evapotranspiration going on with that Lawn......You Betcha :)

The lawn will drink AND exchange O2 and Co2 (in the soil) with 1-1.5 inches of H2O weekly, and an off day or 3 on the irrigation.


The person following advice is doing well!

Pete

platinum
09-10-2008, 07:30 PM
Just aerated, overseeded and fertilized. Should I water the grass twice a day to keep the soil most until germination?

Also how do I mow the exsisting grass, wont I remove the seed.

thanks

heritage
09-10-2008, 09:36 PM
Just aerated, overseeded and fertilized. Should I water the grass twice a day to keep the soil most until germination?

Also how do I mow the exsisting grass, wont I remove the seed.

thanks

I always say not to mow for 10 days after an overseed with Rye.

You should have "Morning Dew" this time of the year, so I would say a 15' watering between Noon and 3P, 1 time a day, for the next 2 weeks.

Thereafter water as needed for 1-1.5 " weekly until Frost.

No water on Rain Days.

Going to look GREAT :)

Pete

tedfrk
09-11-2008, 08:10 PM
you better watch how good your lawn starts looking by the pictures your neighbors are going to start hireing you for there lawns,looks good

Plant Wizard
10-01-2008, 06:29 PM
"Root soup" :confused:brings up images of wet and rotting,... oh like pythium and phytophthora. Names only people that deal with this problem on an annual basis understand.
I did't want to bring up Civil Engineering, but yes ALL UNIVERSITY'S are recommending watering in the AM. Good reason. Most home fires occur in the early evening hours. The municipal water systems where designed for the average home water use, :nono:not the home irrigation system. If all the home sprinklers where running at the time of a fire, their would be no water pressure to help the fire department.
Lest we forget, the roots need oxygen too. I believe his yellow blades earlier where a sign of over watering.
Dark green turf ? Wait till he gets the rest of his sulfur applied!:waving:

platinum
10-02-2008, 09:29 AM
I will apply the rest of the sulfer in the next few days as well as get some new pics.

no yellow anymore...:)

heritage
10-02-2008, 10:58 AM
Very Good :)

Pete

platinum
10-05-2008, 04:27 PM
OK, monthly update...

5lbs per 1000 of Sulfer with 3.5%FE down and watered in. Hoping in the next few weeks it really darkens up. One more fert application left before winter going down at the end of the Month.

The rest of the nieboorhood greened up with the cooler weather, but my grass is very think and much healthier. I appreciate all the help recieved here. thanks again.

heritage
10-05-2008, 06:36 PM
OK, monthly update...

5lbs per 1000 of Sulfer with 3.5%FE down and watered in. Hoping in the next few weeks it really darkens up. One more fert application left before winter going down at the end of the Month.

The rest of the nieboorhood greened up with the cooler weather, but my grass is very think and much healthier. I appreciate all the help recieved here. thanks again.

Hey GREAT job again!

Should be the Darkest end of this month around haloween time :)

Plan on a "Spring Greenup" pic around April 15th.

Will give more tips :)

Pete

platinum
04-20-2009, 06:55 PM
As promissed here is the spring green up pics.

19-0-6 put down on 4/1/09.

I still have a couple of areas that look they have not come out of dormancy.

Attached is also the soil sample for this year so you can compair from last year's and continue to provide feedback.

Thanks again.

hmartin
04-20-2009, 09:48 PM
I really enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks Heritage, Platinum and others.

I hope your lawn is the envy of the neighborhood.

Plant Wizard
04-20-2009, 10:27 PM
Apply 1 oz of brown sugar with 1 oz of "stale" beer per 1,000 sq feet.
Use as much water as it takes per 1,000 to get it sprayed this spring.
Your pH still needs to be dropped one full point. This requires 4 applications of elemental sulfer at 5 lbs per 1,000 sq feet each time. Spread these out over the summer.
The last number is potash. I hope you can get at least 4 lbs per 1,000 sq ft this summer.
Apply light applications of nitrogen to maintain color, we don't want to promote thatch.

heritage
04-20-2009, 10:52 PM
As promissed here is the spring green up pics.

19-0-6 put down on 4/1/09.

I still have a couple of areas that look they have not come out of dormancy.

Attached is also the soil sample for this year so you can compair from last year's and continue to provide feedback.

Thanks again.

Thanks for the new pic!

I would apply 0-0-50 (potassium sulfate) at 3 lbs per 1,000 May 1st.

The rest of the Fert apps I would like to see you use a 1-0-1 Ratio fert, example 18-0-18, and would be a "Plus" if it has The N in Ammonical form as well as the Potassium in Sulfate form.


The Potassium like the N is a very mobile element in the soil, and will need to be replenished at each Fert application.

I like to keep K (potassium) in the High range, and apply 2-3 lbs a year.

Keep in mind also that a 50 lb bag of 18-0-18 has 9 lbs of Actual N, and 9 Lbs of Potassium, BUT you must Multply the Potassium by .83 to find out how much Elemental Potassium you are applying, as That is what is available to the plant.....In this case 7.47 lbs of Elemental K in this bag.

Apply 2-3 lbs of year of K in the Elemental Form AND be extra careful if you are applying Potassium in the Chloride form as it has a HIGH Salt index and will burn roots if applied heavy.....It must be used in smaller doses, unlike the Potassium Sulfate.

Potassium Sulfate is the Good One Sir.

Happy Spring,

Pete

platinum
04-20-2009, 11:06 PM
Apply 1 oz of brown sugar with 1 oz of "stale" beer per 1,000 sq feet.
Use as much water as it takes per 1,000 to get it sprayed this spring.
Your pH still needs to be dropped one full point. This requires 4 applications of elemental sulfer at 5 lbs per 1,000 sq feet each time. Spread these out over the summer.
The last number is potash. I hope you can get at least 4 lbs per 1,000 sq ft this summer.
Apply light applications of nitrogen to maintain color, we don't want to promote thatch.

Funny you mention that. I read that somewhere else and applied beer, magnesium sulfate and sugar to a small area in the backyard. Litterly overnight it was a darker green.

I was going to ask if I could apply to the entire yard without affecting other real fert apps.

platinum
04-20-2009, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the new pic!

I would apply 0-0-50 (potassium sulfate) at 3 lbs per 1,000 May 1st.

The rest of the Fert apps I would like to see you use a 1-0-1 Ratio fert, example 18-0-18, and would be a "Plus" if it has The N in Ammonical form as well as the Potassium in Sulfate form.


The Potassium like the N is a very mobile element in the soil, and will need to be replenished at each Fert application.

I like to keep K (potassium) in the High range, and apply 2-3 lbs a year.

Keep in mind also that a 50 lb bag of 18-0-18 has 9 lbs of Actual N, and 9 Lbs of Potassium, BUT you must Multply the Potassium by .83 to find out how much Elemental Potassium you are applying, as That is what is available to the plant.....In this case 7.47 lbs of Elemental K in this bag.

Apply 2-3 lbs of year of K in the Elemental Form AND be extra careful if you are applying Potassium in the Chloride form as it has a HIGH Salt index and will burn roots if applied heavy.....It must be used in smaller doses, unlike the Potassium Sulfate.

Potassium Sulfate is the Good One Sir.

Happy Spring,

Pete

Thanks for continuing to follow this thread.. as always great info. Couple questions though.
-If i apply the 0-0-50, dont I need some nitrogen for the 2nd app or can I wait to the 3rd?
-How do you know to multiple the K by .83? Is that a standard calc for K. What about the other nutrients?
-How do I know if it is Elemental or Chloride form?

Plant Wizard
04-21-2009, 12:01 AM
Go ahead and apply the beer / sugar to the whole yard. No Mag please soil have enough.
If you plan on fertilizing with 18-0-18, make 4 applications spread out over the year as needed. You will end up with 4 pounds N and 3.3 lbs K respectively. No need to complicate your life sulfate vs muriate or extra potash treatments. You are using a pre disposed turf blended fertilizer. You still have not tested for micro nutrients. So the only other nutrient required is Sulfur for lowering the pH. Elemental sulfur at 5 lbs per 1,000.

platinum
04-21-2009, 07:15 AM
Thanks Plant Wizzard.

Do I need to time the sulfur applicatons with the Fert or can I put it down anytime without harm?

Is it possiable that the high PH is related to the ratio of Ca/Mg?

Plant Wizard
04-21-2009, 08:16 AM
Your soil CEC is acting like 47, and not like the 18.9 because of bicarbonates.
Your soil is acting more like concrete than soil.:dancing:
Adding sulfur will help dissipate these bicarbonates.
Keep sulfur treatments about 2 weeks apart from the fertilizer applications.

heritage
04-22-2009, 09:29 AM
Bicarbonates will seal up the soil , and likely the water source there is Hard water.....

The S in your fert blends will keep at bay as the Wizard suggests, and Stick with a 1-0-1 Ratio fert IMHO.


The Beer,MgSo4,Sugar is a source of Yeast (N fixing) Mag Sulfate (Mg and S in Available Sulfate form) and Sugar (Carbon Source).....


Happy Greening...

Pete

Kiril
04-24-2009, 12:39 PM
OMG ... there is not enough time in the day to correct all the mis-information in this thread.

To the OP, please add some compost.

platinum
05-03-2009, 08:36 AM
0-0-38 and 5lb/1000 sulfur put down on 4/20/09. We had some serious rainfall over the past couple of weeks. 90% of the yard is looking thick and dark green. I still have 10% that look like the pictures above. Could they still be dormant, or most likely a problem with the soil in those areas?

Not much 1-0-1 ratio at my local center. Would 21-3-21 work for my maintenance fert.

Kiril, the information provide so far has worked good for me. I am looking into a topdress of compost as you suggested. I just need a compost spreader, or do you recommend another way to get consistant coverage?

Kiril
05-03-2009, 09:22 AM
I just need a compost spreader, or do you recommend another way to get consistant coverage?

For that yard, you don't need a spreader. Find a bulk source, a wheel barrow, shovel, & rake. 1 yard/1000 will give you approximately 1/4" layer of compost, which is the minimum I recommend as a yearly input.

Don't chase the pH .... you are not getting anywhere (note your soil tests). Keep up with your organic matter inputs, and the pH will tend towards neutral over time.

Also, if you are going to compare soil tests as you are in this thread, the tests should be done at the same time of year and from same area. I will assume you are taking a composite, not discrete sample.

Proper water management for your lawn is critical! Do NOT follow any generic recommendations when it comes to irrigation.

Plant Wizard
05-03-2009, 10:11 AM
:clapping:University's recommend replacing only the nutrients you harvest.
:dancing:Consultants recommend balancing the soil.
:dizzy: Environmentalist recommend organics. Its not just manure anymore, its a living. So wrap your arms around 70 cubic yards of compost and have at it. Lets see... compost adds micronutrients and humic acid. Humic acid not only acidifies, but helps create soil structure. It also chelates nutrients that where tied up in the soil, making them more available. The carbon is a fertilizer, I'm sorry a food source. We don't like the fertilizer word. You just need to wait for it to leach into the ground. So even though the soil test is dilluted by depth, the sulfur is helping, the pictures show the turf responding quite nicely. Yup everyone is right.

platinum
05-10-2009, 09:00 PM
OK... I think I am off an running for the year. Yard is looking great. I have put down 2 apps of sulfur and 2 apps of 0-0-38.

Have a question though. How do you tell how many lbs per thousand I am putting down of any given fert? For the 2 apps of K, I used almost a 50lb bag but I know that is not 50lbs of K. How do you calculate the acutal amount beside just reading the bag?

Thanks for everyones help so far this year...

heritage
05-10-2009, 09:08 PM
OK... I think I am off an running for the year. Yard is looking great. I have put down 2 apps of sulfur and 2 apps of 0-0-38.

Have a question though. How do you tell how many lbs per thousand I am putting down of any given fert? For the 2 apps of K, I used almost a 50lb bag but I know that is not 50lbs of K. How do you calculate the acutal amount beside just reading the bag?

Thanks for everyones help so far this year...

50 Lb bag of 0-0-38 is 50 X 38%....That gives you 19.

Multiply 19 X .83 is 15.77 Lbs of "Elemental Potassium"


Enjoy the GREEN :)

Pete

platinum
05-11-2009, 07:45 AM
thanks.. so on the soil sample it recommend .75lbs per thousand. If I am reading your calculation correctly, since I have a 6k sq/ft yard, I basicly put down 2.63lbs per thousand? isnt that way to much

Also the .83, does that work for NPK or just K?

Kiril
05-11-2009, 07:58 AM
thanks.. so on the soil sample it recommend .75lbs per thousand. If I am reading your calculation correctly, since I have a 6k sq/ft yard, I basicly put down 2.63lbs per thousand? isnt that way to much

If you follow the base saturation camp recommendations, yes. Your K was only off by a little.

Also the .83, does that work for NPK or just K?

Only potash (K2O)

platinum
05-11-2009, 08:41 AM
cool, so whats the calc for N and P.

Kiril
05-11-2009, 09:28 AM
cool, so whats the calc for N and P.

N is just the percentage (i.e. the analysis shows elemental N).
P & K are expressed as oxides and need to be converted to get your elemental basis.

P2O5 = 44% P or (2 * molecular weight of P) / molecular weight of P2O5

P = ((2 * 30.973 g/mol) / 141.9445 g/mol) = 0.43641000531898030568 = 44%

K2O = 83% K or (2 * molecular weight of K) / molecular weight of K2O

K = ((2* 39.0983 g/mol) / 94.20 g/mol) = 0.83011252653927813163 = 83%