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TXNSLighting
08-05-2008, 11:39 PM
Ok so i got a pool area im lighting up next week, and i need fixtures to be pretty close to the pool, i heard this is ok if i get a water safe trans yes? Help on this would be great. out of all my light jobs i havent had one THIS close to a pool.

JoeyD
08-06-2008, 09:43 AM
No lights in or within 5ft of a body of water designed for human use PERIOD! If it is within 5-10ft then the fixture has to be grounded. Article 680 of the NEC was not written with LV in mind so there is grey area here. The best you can do is install fixtures OK for wet location or submersible, and utilize a Pool and Spa rated transformer on a GFCI bubble protected outlet. Before doing anything I would consult with your inspector to verify your plans and what he is going to require to pass inspection. In most cases the inspectors will understand this and pass inspection seeing that you are taking proper precaution and using a Pool and Spa rated unit which provides additional ground protection. Being that our systems are 2 wire we have to rely ont he transformers for our protection. Also explain your use of secondary fuse protection at your Hubs.

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-06-2008, 10:02 AM
To make things simple you could use fiberoptic or a pool light that doesnt have thermal protection. They are tough to find but there are couple out there. Check with Nexxus lighting on both.

Eden Lights
08-06-2008, 10:14 AM
No lights in or within 5ft of a body of water designed for human use PERIOD! If it is within 5-10ft then the fixture has to be grounded. Article 680 of the NEC was not written with LV in mind so there is grey area here. The best you can do is install fixtures OK for wet location or submersible, and utilize a Pool and Spa rated transformer on a GFCI bubble protected outlet. Before doing anything I would consult with your inspector to verify your plans and what he is going to require to pass inspection. In most cases the inspectors will understand this and pass inspection seeing that you are taking proper precaution and using a Pool and Spa rated unit which provides additional ground protection. Being that our systems are 2 wire we have to rely ont he transformers for our protection. Also explain your use of secondary fuse protection at your Hubs.

Remember there is a method for lighting pools 12 and 120V, Most all pools have a light in the water. No?

JoeyD
08-06-2008, 11:06 AM
Remember there is a method for lighting pools 12 and 120V, Most all pools have a light in the water. No?

They do but those pool lights are designed in with the construction and are completely encapsulated. They have there own set of guidlines and fall in with the construction of the pool or spa itself. It would be very hard to come in after the fact to add a pool light, in fact I think in most pools it would be impossible.

David Gretzmier
08-06-2008, 08:50 PM
what gets me about those pool lights already installed, they are high voltage and no more waterproof than our submersible fixtures. to change the bulb, you remove set screws and they have a silicone gasket, similar to many underwater fixtures I have seen. it is correct that they are grounded and to a gfci, but really, which one is more dangerous, a 12 volt feed water tight fixture or a 120volt water tight fixture? in the event of water, what will 12 volts exactly do? if both go to a gfci outlet, the low voltage system seems to me, by common sense, safer.

why is it safe to put 12 volt in water features? humans get in them quite often.

that being said, by code, I'll never install in a pool, or a waterfall that goes into a pool.

NightScenes
08-06-2008, 09:05 PM
The city of Austin, Texas now will only permit low voltage or LED lighting in pools. I'm sure that other cities ans states will soon follow suit.

Chris J
08-06-2008, 10:23 PM
It is my understanding that the typical "pool light" is equipped with something called an anti-syphon device. Also, the equipment must be installed in a manner which prohibits anyone from grabbing or stepping onto the device to get out of the pool. In other words, it must be flush mounted with no handles. Just because we don't understand the reasoning does not mean there isn't a good purpose for the rule.

The Lighting Geek
08-07-2008, 12:47 AM
the pool light is permitted because it is bonded to the ground along with the steel in the pool and anything within 5 feet of the water and is GFI protected. Low voltage lighting is not grounded at the fixture.

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-07-2008, 08:49 AM
yes...grounded...but I dont like 120volt in water at all...we use only 12 volt anywhere within the pool deck no matter how big the deck is...12 volt everywhere, except for in the swim up bars and that I have yet to figure out.

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-07-2008, 08:53 AM
Lumiere spot have anti siphon devices...you know what it is...lol...they didnt run insulation on the wires thorough the stem of the fixture...so inside the stem you had un- protected wires that could end up touching and shorting your system...was crazy!

Their reasoning was that the water couldnt get siphoned through the wires...lol...their ingrounds have some kind of valve to deplete moisture...none of those thing work I dont think...

gimicks...

NightLightingFX
03-10-2009, 12:37 PM
They do but those pool lights are designed in with the construction and are completely encapsulated. They have there own set of guidlines and fall in with the construction of the pool or spa itself. It would be very hard to come in after the fact to add a pool light, in fact I think in most pools it would be impossible.

I am bringing back an old put interesting thread.

I know a luxury pool guy. He has a project where there are two permanent planters right up next to the pool. He really wants to light the flora in the planters. I know low voltage lighting is out in this case. Fiber optics is an option - I am not impressed with the light output and cost. If we are in the construction phase is there any way we can incorporate 120v lighting in the planters similar to the concept of a light that is inside the pool?
~Ned

JoeyD
03-10-2009, 01:18 PM
I am not sure Ned, that will be a question for the local code authority. You may be surprised at the light you could get out of Fiber Optic!! Dont rule that option out entirely just yet!

NightLightingFX
03-10-2009, 01:38 PM
I am not ruling out fiber optics. It may work in this application. The problem I have with fiber optics is the qualty/lumins of light for the cost.

I had a Illumin FX unit in my hot little hands to try out and show to a client - client wasn't impressed. My personal opinion is that the quality of light didn't live up to the hype. I basically have a bad attitude toward fiber optic lighting now. I have to keep an open mind. I know some people on this forum have had success with Illumin FX.

The Illumin FX unit will probably work for this application and is probably the way to go.