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Gravel Rat
08-06-2008, 05:40 PM
The realestate market is almost non existant :laugh:

The greedy people are getting a reality check :hammerhead:

So it looks like I have made a good choice and got out of the construction industry 2 years ago. What is happening now is prooving to me what people told me to stick with a gauranteed gov't job was the right advice.

With realestate sales being non existant means new construction is almost non exsistant. With construction being slowest its ever been it looks like there will be quite a few guys not working this winter.

Boy its fun to see these people with overpriced houses get reality check that the market has turned off like a light switch. The people that bought overpriced houses are now stuck with them or end up foreclosing. I don't know how people can afford a 1800 dollar a month payment.

Realtors are saying its the worst they have seen it worse than the 1980s and it happened all of a sudden.

You guys said take a chance well I'am glad I didn't. I'am glad I didn't buy a tandem axle dump the guys with them are not working. You can't even give away a tandem axle dump.

The local excavation contractors are scraping the bottom of the barrel for work to keep working. I'am hearing some of them can't pay their bills or are way behind on paying bills. The equipement dealers don't want the equipment back because there is no sales for it.

Even the landscaping work has hit rock bottom the landscapers are looking for work. People can't afford a landscaper to do work on their property.

It sure is amazing what happens when the greed for money backfires :laugh:

The excavation contractors with equipment sitting but the payments for that equipment is still rolling in. They had no choice if they wanted the jobs they had to buy new equipment. The stress of 10 grand a month payments is taking the toll.

It will be a interesting fall/winter to see what happens.

What I find really funny is Vancouver/Lowermainland residents are going to realize the realestate bubble has burst.

What is happening now is justifying my decision to stay with a job I don't like. I may not like the job but atleast I'am employeed there will be lots of equipment operators unemployeed if the current trend continues. It is justifying the reasoning why people have said stick with the gov't.

You may have to do what you hate if you want to stay employeed.

RockSet N' Grade
08-06-2008, 06:01 PM
even an ostrich with his head stuck in the sand can justify his position........

bobcat_ron
08-06-2008, 06:30 PM
We just won't see the real estate prices fall to 1982 rates, but they might get close enough to get the new comers in, but that will drive the rates up, so it's going to be a roller coaster ride.

grassmanvt
08-06-2008, 06:57 PM
Yeah, and I and a bunch of other people took some chances a few years back, I now do what I want, still have work, and am enjoying life, have no payments and am looking forward to getting a good buy on some property. Why pizz on everyones parade. Things go up, things go down. We get it.

JB1
08-06-2008, 07:29 PM
Yeah, and I and a bunch of other people took some chances a few years back, I now do what I want, still have work, and am enjoying life, have no payments and am looking forward to getting a good buy on some property. Why pizz on everyones parade. Things go up, things go down. We get it.

yep, it takes is a big set of balls, and the will to make it work.

jefftb
08-06-2008, 09:25 PM
yep, it takes is a big set of balls, and the will to make it work.

Actually, for once, GR is right:dizzy:-the sky is falling. For some businesses.

If you read most of the business publications today (targeted to small business in landscape, septic handling/pumping, small electric service, etc.) they all have an article devoted to surviving in a slow economy or downturn right now.

One of the tenets generally is that now is the perfect time to expand. Yep its contrarian. Expand when its slow. Read it again, expand when its slow if you can. Yes you need the will to survive and a big set of balls to manage it. Your competition is shuttling equipment, people, services to the boneyard. If you manage your business, have profits built into your pricing, you can move beyond just survive. You can grow and fill the vacuum left by your competitors not servicing their accounts or performing their services. When the downturn swings up, you will be stronger, better positioned to gain market share expanding, with little competition left in the short run to deal with.

Keep your eyes open for deals on equipment and new work. There are people out there that have money to spend.

They exist.

stuvecorp
08-06-2008, 11:12 PM
Thats funny, I am in the middle of the biggest hardscape project ever(for me).

Screw the Economy!

Had to borrow that from BC Ron.

cddva
08-06-2008, 11:29 PM
The down turn in the housing market driven by greedy bank officers giving bad loans and people foolish enough to fall into it is certainly a prime cause of the current economic slow down (recession) but it also coincides with record high oil prices which has driven the cost of living up and reduced consumable spending. If you really want to talk greed, look at the oil company profits and yet they haven't built a new refinery in 20+ years. Housing has always had ups and downs and people can migrate to other sectors for work. But the two of these economic forces occuring simultaneously really puts the squeeze on everybody, not just the people with bad home loans. All we need now is someone to raise our taxes.................btw, keep your govt job GR!

turboawd
08-06-2008, 11:43 PM
so you were scared to take a chance and work for yourself, and are trying to make yourself feel better for the decision you made, by saying how screwed everyone is???

let me tell you, you'll never make anywhere near as much as you could when working for yourself. when you work for someone else, you know you're going to make xxx amount of dollars for the rest of your life. when self-employed, the sky is the limit.

not everyone out there is as broke as you think.

Scag48
08-07-2008, 01:33 AM
Yep, I'll be the first to agree that the economy is super slow this year. But, life is what you make it. I'll go back to landscaping or restaurant work before I go broke and give up. Actually, my biggest hurdle is getting through this winter, I'm not worried about next year at all. It can't be any worst than this year and spring work is being planned for right now.

Those of us not able to go out and fetch our own work in the field we work in are definately feeling it. The union has me strapped, I can't do anything I could've done a year ago in regards to running equipment. It does become a hinderance in slow times, especially for me right now because I can't even hustle a job with a union contractor until I have 1,200 working hours.

wanabe
08-07-2008, 01:47 AM
Thats funny GR. Every concrete plant in my area is having trouble getting rock and sand quick enough to keep up. The quaries are loading all the can every day. One is loading over 500 trucks a day. And there is 6-8 more quaries in the area loading at least 300 a day. Sand is hard to find, with three large pits in the area doing all they can. But the economy is bad? Then what do contractos do with all the concrete and rock that they buy?

RockSet N' Grade
08-07-2008, 02:04 AM
Scag.....here is the admirable difference. You have gone out and done something. You have been proactive, moving forward.......you are part of the solution. I have no doubt that you will end up shiny side up. That other individual, during the same amount of time has done nothing to better himself, continues to whine and look to be taken care of, justifies inaction as positive forward movement. That particular type of mindset is becoming systemic in our culture........and is the problem.

bearmtnmartin
08-07-2008, 02:40 AM
well, I haven't been to this site for a while. Been too darn busy. Theres only two of us, but we are both going flat out. My driver is getting burned out. 14 hour days all month, and no end in sight. I have a two week job booked for September and another one for October. Hate those because all the small stuff piles up and my regulars get mad at me. Sure hope you're right GR, because I really need a break.

bobcatuser
08-07-2008, 06:03 AM
well, I haven't been to this site for a while. Been too darn busy. Theres only two of us, but we are both going flat out. My driver is getting burned out. 14 hour days all month, and no end in sight. I have a two week job booked for September and another one for October. Hate those because all the small stuff piles up and my regulars get mad at me. Sure hope you're right GR, because I really need a break.

would be nice if things slowed to a reasonable pace, maybe I could spend some time on my new boat.

Gravel Rat
08-07-2008, 06:07 AM
The only industry in most areas of B.C. now is realestate sales. Bare land is sold and houses are built or people buy a house and tear it down and build new. Well the realestate market has dried up.

We may not see a 80s recession but it will be close with job losses and people so far into debt they are barely making it.

I find it surprising how quickly things have turned from the gravy train to sour milk. Contractors went from busy as h*ll with 2 years of work booked up to worried about finding work. The excavation contractors had people waiting a year to get a job done. Now the go day to day waiting for a job.

Going to be curious to see how many contractors will be doing next year. They are already squabiling over work a few contractors are moving out and going somewhere else.

The biggest problem is 10 years worth of work has been done in 5 years. Jobs that usually would have taken week to 2 weeks is taking 3 days. Contractors were working 7 days a week 12 hours a day.

No niche markets anymore a excavation contractor does it all. Landscapers have excavators and dump trucks.

Too many people in the pool its forced all the water out. Homeowners buying mini excavators to do their own work. Every Ritchie Bros auction homeowners are buying up used mini excavators.

The contractors that have been in the business for 25-30 years probably say enough is enough and retire. The good years are gone and excavating isn't profitable.

scholzee
08-07-2008, 07:27 AM
The realestate market is almost non existant :laugh:


So it looks like I have made a good choice and got out of the construction industry 2 years ago. What is happening now is prooving to me what people told me to stick with a gauranteed gov't job was the right advice.

.

Yeah your safe LOL

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans next week to slash the pay of more than 200,000 state workers to the federal minimum of $6.55 per hour to help ease the state's budget crisis, according to a draft executive order obtained by The Chronicle on Wednesday.

The governor also will order an end to overtime pay for all but critical services, a freeze on state hiring and the immediate layoff of nearly 22,000 temporary, seasonal and student workers.

Junior M
08-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Yeah your safe LOL

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans next week to slash the pay of more than 200,000 state workers to the federal minimum of $6.55 per hour to help ease the state's budget crisis, according to a draft executive order obtained by The Chronicle on Wednesday.

The governor also will order an end to overtime pay for all but critical services, a freeze on state hiring and the immediate layoff of nearly 22,000 temporary, seasonal and student workers.
is that true? cuz i just cant see that happening. you know how many people will go bankrupt.

scholzee
08-07-2008, 09:20 AM
is that true? cuz i just cant see that happening. you know how many people will go bankrupt.

Its true wether it happens is a big mess right now, Our Federal and State Govs have become so inept and with bickering they get nothing done. Arnold says the State of Cal is bankrupt and apparently can do it, I belive he is really trying to get the lawmarkers together and come up with a better solution so he is forcing their hand and getting the public in an uproar to put pressure on the politicians to do their job.

scholzee
08-07-2008, 09:27 AM
VALLEJO (CBS 5 / AP / BCN) ― The city of Vallejo filed Friday for bankruptcy protection to deal with a ballooning budget deficit caused soaring employee costs and declining tax revenue.

The Bay Area community of about 120,000 residents is the largest California city to declare bankruptcy, which will protect the city from its creditors while it develops a plan to return to fiscal health.

Mayor Osby Davis said the city's attorneys filed papers electronically seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection in federal court in Sacramento just after 11 a.m.

"Those city workers salaries comprise about three-quarters —$74 million— of Vallejo's general fund budget.

Gravel Rat
08-07-2008, 03:14 PM
The gov't company I work for is cutting costs but my wage is fixed for the next 4 years till the new contract comes up.

Working for a excavation contractor now isn't a lifetime career anymore. The way things are going you could be laid off tommorow.

Untill the cost of living comes down people can afford to do anything the work will be slow but I don't think anybody thought it would be this bad.

larryinalabama
08-07-2008, 03:16 PM
The SKY is falling

RockSet N' Grade
08-07-2008, 08:35 PM
And life just passes some of those by......I don't read GR's posts anymore, they have all been the same tune for the last, say, 3 plus years....We did hit a slow spot for a couple weeks (which has been typical for the last 10 years) and now we are revving up again to full throttle. It is the big push before winter. Just landed 3 more jobs in the last couple days and they are just dandies!!! The SKY is falling and it is raining MONEY........glad we are out there to pick a bunch of it up!!

Junior M
08-07-2008, 08:38 PM
it hasnt been to bad for me.. we have two pools to wire this weekend and then a lot clearing with lawn prep and seeding all in the same weekend! that will be a rush job.

lifetree
08-07-2008, 09:05 PM
even an ostrich with his head stuck in the sand can justify his position........

ROFL ... !!

Gravel Rat
08-08-2008, 05:43 AM
I do find it ammusing how much american citizens are in denial that the USA is crumbling like a cheap cookie.

The most forclosed houses in the world is the USA. Banks in the USA are going bankrupt :dizzy:

The USA is so far into debt and owe countries like Japan and China so much money they might aswell own the USA :eek:

The USA is exporting more jobs overseas. The USA imports more goods from China than any other nation :laugh:

Walmart is taking over the USA :hammerhead:

I guess you machine operators will be getting used to wearing a blue smock and talking on a loud speaker saying Welcome Walmart shoppers :laughing:

All I can say is good luck and take off the rose colored glasses.

grassmanvt
08-08-2008, 09:56 AM
I do find it ammusing how much american citizens are in denial that the USA is crumbling like a cheap cookie.

The most forclosed houses in the world is the USA. Banks in the USA are going bankrupt :dizzy:

The USA is so far into debt and owe countries like Japan and China so much money they might aswell own the USA :eek:

The USA is exporting more jobs overseas. The USA imports more goods from China than any other nation :laugh:

Walmart is taking over the USA :hammerhead:

I guess you machine operators will be getting used to wearing a blue smock and talking on a loud speaker saying Welcome Walmart shoppers :laughing:

All I can say is good luck and take off the rose colored glasses.

Nobody said it was perfect, but some have the foresight to plan ahead for a rainy day. I can't say my business has changed all that much though. Maybe you should take off your s$%^t colored glasses.

bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 07:52 PM
For any of you that suffer from the same affliction that bothers Gravel Rat, here's a song just for you:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=aKd-63cIchU&feature=rec-fresh

Junior M
08-08-2008, 08:01 PM
haha like your comment on that song bobcat ron! haha is that your problem?

bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 09:29 PM
haha like your comment on that song bobcat ron! haha is that your problem?


Never, I just know of a friend who suffers from that......uh...he was too shy to post that comment there......uh, yeah, that's it.

Junior M
08-08-2008, 10:18 PM
would that friends name happen to be roncat? hahaha that is a funny song tho

murray83
08-08-2008, 10:30 PM
Out east its full steam ahead for me....

3 subdivision roads to build complete with water/sewer and storm sewer,one holds around 100 lots,another 80+ and the next on my list is an extension onto a previous garden home development to add another 20 units starting monday.

other than our lil' companys doings...new oil refinery in the works...5-10 years work there,talking about a second neculear reactor here,new condos along the waterfront,Irving oil's new office complex,8 story hotel,new provincial justice complex and city police station and lockup facility,new canadian tire,new costco.....just off the top of my head.

Now I'm not like others here with 10's of thousands invested in their little empires I'm solo and plow in winter and rent a backhoe part time in summer to do small stuff for my personal fun but I can't see why its so doom and gloom.My truck is bought and paid for and for now I rent my machine on an as needed basis why can't you do similar out in BC? whats a mini rent for? get your name out there any means necessary get into septics,water/sewer,build pads for trailers or baby barns,remove rubbish from sites go seal driveways for $100-200 a driveway after hours each night get your name out there doing whatever and find a niche market as most others on here found and capitolized on.

Look at KSSS he seemed to built his empire around a skid steer and doing anything he could get,Minimax has a decent niche in mowing and brush cutting,Others made decent on retaining walls or hardscaping if you find it jump on it and pound the pavement getting yourself known its not hard man BC may have 1000 contractors but the ones who aren't busy are probably f*ckups and have a bad name around the area and sit idle its the same anywhere you screw up a few times your done nice gear or not your rep is what puts cash in your pocket.

Go get a one ton with a dump and rent a mini or skid and start advertising

Sorry for the long post but eh its not hard to say stuff on here and suck it up and give it a try sure your trucking company didn't work out but doesn't mean BC sucks your just not your in a niche market yet go find it

As a family member who has done well excavating said.."put up or shut up you don't make it bitching like a woman only you can create your own destiny"

Gravel Rat
08-09-2008, 03:38 PM
Guys that have been in the business since the 60s are says its bad when you have companies around for 30 plus years saying its not looking good. These guys have been through the 70s-80s and 90s boom cycles and they all say the 2002 to 2007 cycle is the worst ever.

The largest steady income supplier for B.C. is dying. Forestry supplied thousands of jobs and guess what they are dissapearing like a fart in the wind.

More sawmills and pulp mills they close down less revenue is floating around. There is so many used trucks on the market right now guys are dumping brandnew gravel trucks like you wouldn't beleive. Equipment dalers and sales people are worried not much equipment sales. Companies like Brandt Tractor are cutting back on their mechanics to save money.

What the B.C. gov't doesn't say is the 10,000 jobs lost in the forestry and after the 2010 Olympic construction ends you will be looking at 10,000 or more construction workers looking for a job.

B.C.s economy is running on realestate hype there is no sustainable industry like Forestry, Mining or Oil.

People are bracing for a recession come 2009 its already started with the realestate market falling like a rock. Tourism is really slow the tourist based businesses are feeling it one of the worst years on reccord.

You guys say niche market there isn't any anymore because homeowners buy their own equipment. Any homeowner with acreage has bought a excavator and doing their own work. Homeowners buy mini excavators and use them for their own jobs. My parents neighbour bought a excavator did all his own work and saved 30-40,000 dollars the machine paid for itself.

One of the contractors said there is so many mini excavators in the area and its getting worse. Mini excavating used to be a niche market it isn't anymore. Skid steers used to be a niche market not anymore a homeowner can rent a skid steer cheap.

It doesn't matter how good of a name you have if the other person gives a cheaper price and makes less profit they are going to get the job. Its getting to the point these guys are working for expenses. Homeowners are starting to do work for other homeowners with their machines looking at making some extra money.

I knew the problems started when contractors that have been in business for 30 years advertising work work. These guys never had to advertise they get the work from word of mouth.

As for my work doing clean up and removal work that is almost non existant home owners are doing it themselves. They bought a utility trailer and haul it away or hire a landscaper that is starving for work that will do it cheap.

Homeowners are broke they want work done but they don't want you to make a profit. Or they hire you and either not pay you or take 3 months to pay you. Contractors can't pay their bills because they haven't been paid for jobs. Contractors have been cut off from suppliers until the bills are paid the suppliers are giving the contractors as much credit as they can.

It is getting cut throat territory now myself I'am not going to work for little to no profit not worth it. I know the contractors don't speak to each other.

Like I said 10 years worth of work was done in 5. There was enough landcleared and developed its unbeleiveable. Everything was rush rush rush get it done don't care what it costs. Developers spent tripple of what it cost if they waited. They couldn't wait it had to be done now trying to get into the realestate market. Now there is building lots on the market that are not selling. The developers want a premium price because they paid premium price. Millions of dollars spent and not much return.

With my truck all I need is to get a hydraulic pump for the hoist but I'am not rushing to spend 700 dollars when the work has dropped off. I was hoping to get some topsoil hauling but with landscaping slow not much demand for topsoil.

Oh ya there is a big difference between the West Coast and East Coast in machine rates and realestate prices.

For 500,000 on the East Coast you can buy 100 acres or more here on the West Coast that buys you a 1/2 acre. A tandem axle dump truck makes 110 dollars per hour I charge my F-450 out at 70 dollars per hour. Rubber tired backhoe rate is 90-100 dollars per hour. A 16 ton excavator is 120. Labourer rate is 20-22 per hour.

bearmtnmartin
08-09-2008, 03:56 PM
Well Gravel Rat, do you not ever find it strange that you are the only one on this board that has such a negative outlook? You say over and over and over how bad it is in BC, and how we are all going broke, only we are too stupid to know it. Stop reading the papers and stop worrying(gloating) about everyone elses problems. Every time you complain about how bad things are in BC, other BC contractors refute what you say. Then you tell all the Americans that they are about to go broke, only they too are too stupid to know it. Meanwhile, the world goes around, we all get up in the morning and go too work and make a living, and you pull your paycheck and tell us how dumb we all are. Why are you even on this board? You are obviously not a contractor, you are just a career complainer.

bearmtnmartin
08-09-2008, 03:57 PM
why do I even read your posts? Its like watching a slow motion train wreck. I think I have read and replied to the last one.

bobcat_ron
08-09-2008, 04:24 PM
why do I even read your posts?


It's just like rubber necking through an accident scene on the road!

Junior M
08-09-2008, 05:16 PM
i think this thread has gone as far as its goin to go

Gravel Rat
08-09-2008, 05:19 PM
Oh I will laugh when the lowermainland contractors get hit with the job losses.

Have a look around Vancouver the trucking companies are starving to death. The olympic spending is the only thing keeping Vancouver contractors going after that what is left.

The interior of B.C. is really slow the logging contractors are pulling the plug. They were making money off the beatle kill wood now there is no market for that. One of my relatives works in the Interior and says is pretty slow not much going on.

I don't think you guys realize with Forestry going down its dragging the province with it. Ritchie Bros has sold more contractors equipment for a loss because these guys are going broke.

There are logging companies that have been in the business since 1950s shutting down going out of business. The forestry contractors are making more money cutting up equipment and selling it for scrap. Lots of old iron has headed to the scrap yards why not no work for it.

I'am not the only one that figures there will be a recession in 2009.

Read the facts they are written on the friggin wall. The realestate market is falling fast. B.C. is so expensive now that rich Albertans won't buy realestate they can't afford it. Albertan developers that are in the area can't even get people from their own province interested to buy a in B.C.

The july auction at Ritchie Bros in surrey stuff was selling so cheap the auctioneers had a heck of a time getting a decent price out of some of the stuff.

Like I said when you have people in the industry for decades saying its bad you believe it to be.

When you have companies that had 30-40 employees going under and ones that are on the verge of going under. Sawmills and pulp mills that used to employ 1000 people going down.

B.C. runs off of selling resources not selling realestate and landscaping. Alberta is the richest province in Canada because it has oil if it didn't have the tar sands it wouldn't have anything.

There will be a reality check and Vancouver/Lowermainland and Valley will get a slap in the face. Vancouvers realestate market is down 40% already. Realestate sales in B.C. are down 50% from last year.

The high cost of fuel is killing tourism in B.C. . Marinas and boat traffic is down considerably nobody can afford to go out in a boat. The high CND dollar is cutting back on the USA tourists. Even Albertan tourists are down because its expensive in B.C. .

I really don't care if you beleive me or not I don't get my info from the newspaper I get it from the contractors and what I see. I have contractor friends that have been in the business since the 60s.

You guys might be busy now but wait 6 months and see what happens. What is going to happen if you do a job and the homeowner or developer screws ya because they went broke and can't pay. It is happening there are homeowners now its COD only. Contractors that are not paying their employees.

Don't be so stupid and ignorant thinking your invinsible you turn your back for second your going to get burned. Do you think forestry contractors that have been in business for 30-40 years figure their business and livelyhood would end "NO" .

Jobs that used to provide generations worth of employment, poof gone for good.

Companies like Brandt Tractor, Wajax, Finning and Conneco are already feeling the effects of no equipment sales. When your not selling large equipment that hurts. Truck sales are down so companies like Inland Kenworth are hurting. I seen they have a 2008 T-800 dump brandnew selling for the same price of a Sterling.

All my owner operator friends are saying dealers like Peterbilt are trying hard as h*ll to sell new trucks. The used truck market is flooded with trucks. The repair shops are laying guys off because the lack of work.

Like I said only the stupid think the economy is going good. Too many think the gravy train was going to keep rolling.

The one repo company told my old man that they have lots of work repoing equipment they said this is only the start they will be busy all year.

Junior M
08-09-2008, 05:26 PM
so what it is bad but come on dont have a "glass half empty" look at things. sure it sucks but come on dont have such a negative freakn look on things. just get over it the economy sucks, work has come to a halt. you arent the one dealing with it you arent a logger, you dont seem to have any equipment to have repoed. so what if people are selling there trucks.

i am just so sick of the freakn whining and complaining... it doesnt do anything.... just think about this.. it could be another depression like in the 1930's so it could always be worse!!!!! so just quit complaining........

Gravel Rat
08-09-2008, 06:04 PM
Its pretty hard not to be negative when your friends are borderline loosing their jobs. The B.C. gov't doesn't give a crap its all about exporting jobs out of the province and the 2010 Olympics.

It would be good for B.C. to go into the 1980s style recession again it might smarten up the politicians.

murray83
08-09-2008, 06:42 PM
If the stuff is going dirt cheap why don't you snag a new toy?

Get a machine cheap or even bought and paid for if there is no work let it sit...its not costing you anything if its busy it'll put money in your pocket

grassmanvt
08-09-2008, 07:06 PM
Its pretty hard not to be negative when your friends are borderline loosing their jobs. The B.C. gov't doesn't give a crap its all about exporting jobs out of the province and the 2010 Olympics.

It would be good for B.C. to go into the 1980s style recession again it might smarten up the politicians.

Your friends must have the same lack of motivation and poor outlook as you, I wouldn't want to work with them either.

bearmtnmartin
08-09-2008, 08:22 PM
theres a story I remember reading about a hotdog seller with one cart who scraped a living together and eventually saved enough money to buy another cart, and so made more money. Then he saved enough to buy a third cart, and made a little more money, and eventually had enough carts and was making enough money to send his son to University, where he took economics. After he was done learning, he came home and told his dad he should downsize, because the economy was crashing, and if he kept all his carts he would go broke. So the dad listened to his educated son, and sold all the carts except the first one, and his income of course dropped right off, and soon was pretty much broke. So he told his son, You were right, things are really bad now. Sure glad I listened to you!

Junior M
08-09-2008, 08:33 PM
Its pretty hard not to be negative when your friends are borderline loosing their jobs. The B.C. gov't doesn't give a crap its all about exporting jobs out of the province and the 2010 Olympics.

It would be good for B.C. to go into the 1980s style recession again it might smarten up the politicians.
who isnt borderline on losing there job especially in construction or whatever you want to call what we do. the govenor of freakn california is dropping all state employees pay to minimum wage. you think you got it bad? how about them. there are goin to be people that made six figure incomes goin bankrupt because some freakn former movie star become politician thought he would save some money. and america is overall worst for exporting jobs. atleast they arent exporting your job.

bobcat_ron
08-09-2008, 10:19 PM
theres a story I remember reading about a hotdog seller with one cart who scraped a living together and eventually saved enough money to buy another cart, and so made more money. Then he saved enough to buy a third cart, and made a little more money, and eventually had enough carts and was making enough money to send his son to University, where he took economics. After he was done learning, he came home and told his dad he should downsize, because the economy was crashing, and if he kept all his carts he would go broke. So the dad listened to his educated son, and sold all the carts except the first one, and his income of course dropped right off, and soon was pretty much broke. So he told his son, You were right, things are really bad now. Sure glad I listened to you!

That made me laugh!! :laugh:

RockSet N' Grade
08-10-2008, 12:13 AM
Some good humor in this thread.......Attitude has alot to do with altitude......Isn't it interesting to note that some of the greatest fortunes/dynasties had their birth place in recessions/depressions ie:hard times.

tallrick
08-14-2008, 03:17 PM
I like the slowdown, never before have I seen so many good deals on stuff I wanted! Going to convert my soon-to-be-worthless savings into machinery for the future. I am currently negotiating on the entire contents of a hydraulics/machine shop. While construction has stopped for the most part, I see service demand increasing. If the real estate keeps losing value, I am going to be able to move and finish my alternative fuel project.Just have to get what I need before hyperinflation kicks in.

crab
08-14-2008, 08:57 PM
good for you rick ,its always how you look at it.

YellowDogSVC
08-14-2008, 10:06 PM
who isnt borderline on losing there job especially in construction or whatever you want to call what we do. the govenor of freakn california is dropping all state employees pay to minimum wage. you think you got it bad? how about them. there are goin to be people that made six figure incomes goin bankrupt because some freakn former movie star become politician thought he would save some money. and america is overall worst for exporting jobs. atleast they arent exporting your job.

I don't think you have your facts exactly right on this one.

Gravel Rat
08-15-2008, 01:51 AM
The realestate market is dead still not good for many people. Like I said a dead realestate market means for the construction industry is no work.

Then the construction industry is so over regulated you have permits on top of permits you need to see 50 different people to pass building permits.

The biggest thing is everything has to be engineered by a engineer so they are milking that to no end and charging lots for it. To build a outhouse or a tool shed you need a engineer aproval :rolleyes:

To get a building permit can take up to 2 months or more and a permit isn't cheap anymore I forget the price but its alot of money.

Building supplies like lumber is so high just to buy a 2x4 needs a bank loan.

So untill things come back to reality price wise in realesate and the cost of building the construction has stopped.

People are tapped out they can barely afford the bills they have. There is so many people out there with maxed out credit cards and personal debt so deep they are running in the red. You have to have two incomes to afford a house so yours and your wifes income has to be atleast 70 grand to afford a trailer in a trailer park :laugh:

You have the gov't sqeezing more money out of the tax payers.

Will be interesting to see what kind of deals equipment dealers will be promoting because new machine sales has dropped off. Not many contractors are going to be going out to buy a 140,000 excavator with the work situation the way it is. Equipment dealers were enjoying the last 5 years they must have sold more equipment in those years than ever.

This is only the start of the bumpy road ahead and don't expect the gravy train is going to continue.

When you have a insane amount of money being spent and I mean insane amounts of money. It was at one point where people were paying thousands of dollars more than it should have cost but they wanted it done now.

Bidding wars on houses people paying 10-20-30-40-100 thousand of dollars more to get the house. People buying houses or bare land that sat on the market for years because it was a pile of junk house or a lot that is hard to build on.

It was like a used car saleman selling a Geo Metro for the price of a Rolls Royce.

The people that bought tough property to build on didn't do any investigating on how much it was going to cost to develop the property. Realtors and contractors were banking on the stupidity of the people so they socked it to them.

Well thats over with people that have property that is tough to work on they can't afford to have anything done with it. If they have done something to it they increased the value so high they can't recover the costs. They still have a shined up turd of a property. When you have a tough property that just increases the cost to build especially if you have a property with a driveway that requires a sky hook to get building materials to the house site.

If you have to winch the contractors vehicals up the driveway so they can get near the house site that adds to the cost. I have looked at some of these places and its I'am not taking my truck there. Tradesman with 2wd vans or P/U trucks can't get into these places not because of mud or soft ground but a steep dirt driveway that is loose and slippery.

Alot of these new places built I don't even know if the honey truck is going get into to pump the septic tanks. If there ever is a house fire forget about the fire dept doing anything.

I can wait out this dry spell I'am not like the local contractors that have to clear 5-10 grand a month just to cover equipment payments. I don't have 300,000 dollars worth of equipment to pay for. I know a few of my contractor friends say they have a few sleepless nights and nighmares thinking about the payments etc.

Junior M
08-15-2008, 02:01 AM
I don't think you have your facts exactly right on this one.
well that is what some guy said on this thread earlier... i dont believe it either but he isnt the only one say that it is goin to happen....

Junior M
08-15-2008, 02:05 AM
Yeah your safe LOL

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans next week to slash the pay of more than 200,000 state workers to the federal minimum of $6.55 per hour to help ease the state's budget crisis, according to a draft executive order obtained by The Chronicle on Wednesday.

The governor also will order an end to overtime pay for all but critical services, a freeze on state hiring and the immediate layoff of nearly 22,000 temporary, seasonal and student workers.

Its true wether it happens is a big mess right now, Our Federal and State Govs have become so inept and with bickering they get nothing done. Arnold says the State of Cal is bankrupt and apparently can do it, I belive he is really trying to get the lawmarkers together and come up with a better solution so he is forcing their hand and getting the public in an uproar to put pressure on the politicians to do their job.

VALLEJO (CBS 5 / AP / BCN) ― The city of Vallejo filed Friday for bankruptcy protection to deal with a ballooning budget deficit caused soaring employee costs and declining tax revenue.

The Bay Area community of about 120,000 residents is the largest California city to declare bankruptcy, which will protect the city from its creditors while it develops a plan to return to fiscal health.

Mayor Osby Davis said the city's attorneys filed papers electronically seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection in federal court in Sacramento just after 11 a.m.

"Those city workers salaries comprise about three-quarters —$74 million— of Vallejo's general fund budget.


here is what i have been told.......

RockSet N' Grade
08-15-2008, 04:42 PM
Maybe there will be some "fat trimming" there too. How many city employee's do you know who hustle and get their job done quickly......seems they sink to the lowest common denominator and learn to look busy while doing very little. Some of the city guys I have seen would be overpaid making minimum wage, their work is not prideful and they are just marking time.

Junior M
08-15-2008, 06:34 PM
i am goin to do some diggin on it i have a feeling it is just a rumor that would put california in even more of a horrible financial state

wellbuilt
08-15-2008, 06:49 PM
Ok GR please stop being such a downer . You have to move off the island and come in where the money is. You need to break a move and get in the game with the rest of us . Just because things are bad it doesn't mean you cant make a buck , Just figure out what people need and give it to them . I'm working day and night now .I make the same money but have to work harder . I was around in 75 when we could only have 5 gallons of fuel every other day . Then there was black Monday 1987 that sucked .now 2008 we don't have a name for it but we will . This will pass . It like lifting weight's no pain no gain . Start pumping with the rest of us . break a move now before your to dam old .

grassmanvt
08-15-2008, 09:41 PM
Ok GR please stop being such a downer . You have to move off the island and come in where the money is. You need to break a move and get in the game with the rest of us . Just because things are bad it doesn't mean you cant make a buck , Just figure out what people need and give it to them . I'm working day and night now .I make the same money but have to work harder . I was around in 75 when we could only have 5 gallons of fuel every other day . Then there was black Monday 1987 that sucked .now 2008 we don't have a name for it but we will . This will pass . It like lifting weight's no pain no gain . Start pumping with the rest of us . break a move now before your to dam old .

Don't invite him over here, we have enough whiners.

Gravel Rat
08-16-2008, 01:59 AM
The down turn is province wide it may be busy in some areas but its not going to last long not with the realestate market falling.

BC has no meat and potatos economy anymore. The forestry is going down its at rock bottom. Manufacturing isn't doing good, sawmills closing down, mining is struggling along and other resource industries are slow.

When you don't have sustainable industry to provide jobs the economy is going to be rough. B.C.s economy is a oversized realesate office all running on realestate hype.

Alberta has oil which everybody wants, B.C. has trees and lumber that nobody wants.

With excavation industry there is so many contractors out there they are all fighting for the same job. With this down turn there might be lots of equipment being sold at a loss and the new contractors closing up shop. You can't pay for equipment if it doesn't get any work.

The amount of mini excavators in the area went from 5 to 25-30 maybe more in 3-4 years. Like I said homeowners have mini excavators in their back yards. Developers are buying their own equipment to develop the land they have the developer hires equipment operators to run the equipment.

It will be a interesting to see how many machines will be working next year. When you have had a X amount of contractors before the boom started and you double and tripple that amount in 5 years something is going to happen.

In the last 40 years there has been a the same amount of excavation contractors maybe 1 or 2 were added over the years but the number of contractors didn't increase. The amount of contractors was enough to support the the work load. The work load increased 100% in 5 years so there was a big demand for excavation contractors. The work dropped off now we are in a 1980s level of work with a glut of contractors. Too many guys for the amount of work the supply far exceeds the demand.

Hard to compete with a contractor that started 30 years ago they get all the work their name is more common it is the first person a person in need of excavation work thinks of. The new guy in the market gets the table scraps very rare gets the full meal deal.

Just the way it goes with a limited market which is residential excavation.

SuperDuty335
08-17-2008, 02:04 AM
GR, I bet prostitution is still doing pretty well. There is always money to be made my friend...

Gravel Rat
08-17-2008, 02:20 AM
The biggest money is in herb farming and nope I'am not interested in doing that.

The cost of living is hurting the economy big time. The cost of fuel the cost of food etc is hurting the spending and the gov't keeps adding taxes and we are being taxed to death.

bobcat_ron
08-17-2008, 11:44 AM
GR, I bet prostitution is still doing pretty well. There is always money to be made my friend...


You need a really good pimp for that line of work here. :laugh:

ccstrebe
08-17-2008, 02:02 PM
I'm new to this board so I'm still learning about the personalities of the regular posters, but after reading this post it sounds like alot of you feel that GR is a doom and gloom kind of guy. That may well be, I don't know, but I think everyone is missing the real reason for GR's post.


What is happening now is justifying my decision to stay with a job I don't like. I may not like the job but atleast I'am employeed there will be lots of equipment operators unemployeed if the current trend continues. It is justifying the reasoning why people have said stick with the gov't.

You may have to do what you hate if you want to stay employeed.


I don't know about anyone else but I had a job in my 20's that I hated and it was very hard to get up in the morning to go to work.

GR, I feel for you and I hope things work out for you.

bobcat_ron
08-17-2008, 02:13 PM
I'm new to this board so I'm still learning about the personalities of the regular posters, but after reading this post it sounds like alot of you feel that GR is a doom and gloom kind of guy. That may well be, I don't know, but I think everyone is missing the real reason for GR's post.





I don't know about anyone else but I had a job in my 20's that I hated and it was very hard to get up in the morning to go to work.

GR, I feel for you and I hope things work out for you.


GR lives a little more North and slightly East of where I live, the economy in his region is much like the scenery, dead and drying up.

Gravel Rat
08-17-2008, 09:19 PM
With this hot weather things are drying out I wish the freaking heat would go away I hate having a shower in my clothes :dizzy:

The slow down is going to hit all of B.C. it is just taking longer than other areas.

YellowDogSVC
08-17-2008, 09:40 PM
It is slowing down in the states as well. There is still work but not like last year or the year before. My wife works at a title company and her orders are down as well as the orders at other title companies she talks to. Ditto for other contractors I have been in contact with. Maybe it will weed out some of the fly by nights. Not sure though as I still see plenty of them.
I have work but now the rains have moved in. nearly a year-long drought and the rains came back this week only a week after having nearly 6 weeks off from losing my CAT. I'm going to have to employ some hand labor to keep the jobs doing until it's dry enough to move a machine in. I can't take any more time off. my butt hurts from sitting in front of the computer and my company's savings hurts from dipping in over the last few months. I know this won't last and I am grateful for the work I do have. I am also looking forward to a better 2nd half of 2008 and a much better 2009. I know the Good Lord will provide..it's just up to me to recognize it and make good with it.

Scag48
08-17-2008, 10:12 PM
The crew I'm working on is going to get cut in half in about 2 weeks once we finish the mass excavation side of the site we're on. We've been digging for about 3 weeks removing 200,000 cubic yards so when this finishes up, hard to say what's going to happen. There's 6 of us, only 3 will remain I'm told, doing what I'm not sure. Hoping I stay there, if not, I hope I get placed on another job within the company. We have stuff going on I hear, I've been told that when work is good we stay pretty close to the company shop and don't have to travel very far. Heard that there are bids in process or have been signed for jobs about an hour south of my place, hopefully the company just bites the bullet and starts bidding jobs further away to keep the crew busy this winter. Apparently this is something they haven't really done in years past but I'm with a good outfit with a rock solid reputation, I think that plays to our advantage when times get tougher. We're efficient and make things happen, the only thing that wouldn't keep our crews busy this winter is if management decides not to chase jobs futher from the shop, that's about it. My crew does everything dirt and works mainly on large commercial sites, this job we're on right now is a 2 year gig for a few people, so we don't do small jobs. We don't do any road work, which is a bummer, because the state is going fairly nuts with road improvement money right now and next year I hear a lot of gas tax money is going to hit the street. I would like to eventually be on a road crew, but I like where I'm at right now. We run some pretty big stuff, I don't fuel or grease anything, we have at least 5 service trucks and (3) 55 ton lowboys that I know of, so it's a good outfit to be working for. We're running (3) PC400's on this job and I have no idea how many more we have, let alone other sized hoes. I'm hearing the 400's get used a lot, I'm thinking we somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 or so. The lowboy driver who hauled my 580 away on Friday says we have a 750 somewhere and a couple 600's, can't wait for that action.

Junior M
08-17-2008, 10:21 PM
wow.. I hope i can get on with somebody like that one day... that would be awesome..

Gravel Rat
08-17-2008, 11:40 PM
The biggest thing is fuel consumption on the mass excavators. It is actually cheaper to run 2 400 size machines over 1 large machine.

The mines have found that they got rid of all their bigger machines and went with 400s. They are getting more production with less fuel running the 400s.

Scag48
08-17-2008, 11:53 PM
We don't have enough reach without the 400's. There's been times on this job when a 600 would have been nice. We have a D8 pushing material off a slope toward each of the 400's are sitting on while they are loading trucks. Since there are 3 excavators, the D8 will push a large enough amount of material to feed the excavator for a couple hours while it tends to the other 2 machines. If we were running 200's, we'd need another dozer and operator and the piles would need to be tended more often, the 200's would run out of reach before their piles would actually be expried. 200's just wouldn't do it, unfortunately. Not to mention you'd need twice as many 200's to even come close to the productivity of one 400, there just isn't enough room on this site to jam twice as many excavators in, let alone the labor to run them. The fuel consumption per hour of a 400 isn't that much more than a 200 to justify throwing another $45/hr. operator in the seat.

Gravel Rat
08-18-2008, 12:09 AM
No I'am talking about running 400s over the 600s and 800 sized machines.

Even the loggers have dropped the 450 sized machines and running 350 machines for better fuel economy and higher production.

Scag48
08-18-2008, 12:39 AM
Gotcha, I misread what you posted. Having multiple machines on this job definately makes more sense than one big one. We can move material from 3 places at once and we're able to climb up and down the slopes as needed that would be a little sketchy with an 800. Plus, we're doing some vertical face cuts that would be impossible with anything bigger than a 400, it's already tough enough. We need a 150 for that stuff, but have yet to see one show up.

ksss
08-18-2008, 12:49 AM
Gotcha, I misread what you posted. Having multiple machines on this job definately makes more sense than one big one. We can move material from 3 places at once and we're able to climb up and down the slopes as needed that would be a little sketchy with an 800. Plus, we're doing some vertical face cuts that would be impossible with anything bigger than a 400, it's already tough enough. We need a 150 for that stuff, but have yet to see one show up.



Its cool your getting all that experience doing different types of jobs. All that will pay a dividend when you go off an do your own thing. I am jealous.

Chilehead
08-18-2008, 01:01 AM
Gee, Gravel Rat--that's too bad. I seem to have waaaaay to much work coming my way this year. Did I mention I had way too much work? By the way, I have way too much work. American Dream: Achieved by relocating/innovating and doing whatever is necessary to succeed. Canadian Dream: Rely on the local goverment, and blame circumstances for when things don't go well.

Gravel Rat
08-18-2008, 05:31 PM
I was doing some online job searching and you can see things are slowing down. The job postings are pretty sparce 2 years ago there was lots of job postings. The wages are dropping I'am not going to quit a 22 per hour job for a 15 dollar per hour job. H*ll if you don't make minimum 20 dollars per hour your going to starve to death with todays cost of living.

The realtors in the area figure it will be 2 years before the market comes back. With it currently slowest its ever been in 30 years its making people sweat a little. The people that took on too much debt buying another house and selling on the one they are living in to pay for it isn't working.

The house flippers are getting burned big time :laugh:

I feel bad for the people that got sucked into the 35-40 year mortgages and now with the house prices falling they are paying 100,000s of thousands more than the house is worth. They will have to live in the house till they die. The other worry is job loss or cut back in their annual income from the lack of work.

Alot of the guys in the trades won't be getting the hours like they were getting. There was a point where you couldn't get a plumber they were so busy same with electricians. Now these guys are waiting by the phone for the next job.

I still find it interesting what I was told back in 2003 that this cycle was going to hurt bad when it falls is becoming true.

YellowDogSVC
08-18-2008, 06:13 PM
Gee, Gravel Rat--that's too bad. I seem to have waaaaay to much work coming my way this year. Did I mention I had way too much work? By the way, I have way too much work. American Dream: Achieved by relocating/innovating and doing whatever is necessary to succeed. Canadian Dream: Rely on the local goverment, and blame circumstances for when things don't go well.

I don't think that is fair. I personally have noticed a slow down in Texas which is booming compared to the rest of the country. Orders are down at the title companies, the real estate agents agree sales are slow, new housing starts have slowed, and people seem to be holding onto their money more.

Maybe you are the guru or maybe you are just lucky but you have your head in the sand if you think the construction industry hasn't slowed. Innovation doesn't mean much if you have products people consider luxury items in times of financial uncertainty. Of course, this is just a cycle, those of us that are old enough have been through them before but things aren't as rosy as they were just a few years ago. Even post-Katrina some of us in Texas didn't even think about chasing storm work...we were too busy. Now that things have slowed a bit, nothing is off the table. I would be very careful about gloating...you get an innovative competitor or two and way too much work may part ways for not enough..

tedfrk
08-27-2008, 10:09 PM
i think the government should limit the amount of work that can be farmed out to other countries that we should be doing here.i use to live in pa there used to be steel companies all over but now there far and few,we have to stick together and have someone in the government step up and do whats right.

mrusk
08-27-2008, 10:18 PM
i think the government should limit the amount of work that can be farmed out to other countries that we should be doing here.i use to live in pa there used to be steel companies all over but now there far and few,we have to stick together and have someone in the government step up and do whats right.

What are you communist? Let capitilism work! We outsource because its cheaper. If everything was made in the US and nothing was ever outsourced, we would pay for it with our wallets!


If all good were made in the US walmart would not make less money. You would spend more.

The US is still the #1 producer of consumer goods in the world.

tedfrk
08-27-2008, 10:29 PM
no im not communist its pretty sad when an american flag is not even made in the usa!what was the last thing you picked up and it said made in usa?that does not bother anyone else

YellowDogSVC
08-27-2008, 11:11 PM
no im not communist its pretty sad when an american flag is not even made in the usa!what was the last thing you picked up and it said made in usa?that does not bother anyone else

It would be one thing if there was a level playing field. The sad truth is, the goods are outsourced because the other countries cheat. We have labor laws and consumer protection laws here. China, for example, uses slave-like child labor and sub standard components including but not limited to lead paint and toxin-laden proteins for pet food.

I think we should have strict import taxes like the other countries do. While we produce a lot of consumer goods, the market for our goods is impeded because of high tariffs on our goods when they enter other markets. It costs us more to produce goods because of labor and litigation issues that other markets do not have.

If it was a fair system, then we could be competitive but they other side cheats. They cheat at the Olympics and foreign policy and they cheat in the marketplace. How is that fair? We won't change anything until consumers demand it...maybe we need more lead paint and poison dog food before people say enough.