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DVS Hardscaper
08-06-2008, 04:53 PM
My hat's off to Moose River Media for not only providing us with a forum that is full of valuable information, but for allowing us the opportunity to post freely.

For those of you that get upset with the repetitive start up questions on this site, be glad that the owner(s) and / or moderator(s) are not allowing their personal, biased emotions effect the quality of the content here.

It's truely a breath of fresh air to be able to share trade experiences, business practices, opinions, and thoughts without having to look over your shoulder.


Thanks again, and keep up the GREAT work Moose River!



.

TJLANDS
08-06-2008, 07:45 PM
My hat's off to Moose River Media for not only providing us with a forum that is full of valuable information, but for allowing us the opportunity to post freely.

For those of you that get upset with the repetitive start up questions on this site, be glad that the owner(s) and / or moderator(s) are not allowing their personal, biased emotions effect the quality of the content here.

It's truely a breath of fresh air to be able to share trade experiences, business practices, opinions, and thoughts without having to look over your shoulder.


Thanks again, and keep up the GREAT work Moose River!



.

Wow the Hardscaping forum is like a shark tank. I bet 90% of the first time posters to this forum never post again. They get chewed up and spit out with their first work pictures. Some of the guys on here can find something wrong with anything. Too many of them seem to like to see their words in print. I think it is a shame.

cudaclan
08-06-2008, 09:08 PM
Ladies and Gentleman, though neither from occupation nor of industry I am often bewildered by some posts. It is apparent that some requests are from novice DIY’s. Hardscaping requires expensive equipment, stamina and perfection. I can attest to the comments and withheld comments by professional industry members. Projects that are completed in days or weeks require me years. I am realistic and schedule projects months and years in advance. Yes, I am a DIY and spend a considerable amount of time educating myself. However, I have shaken my head and often comment if some of these posters did any research. I tip my hat to all of you.

PaperCutter
08-07-2008, 01:25 PM
Wow the Hardscaping forum is like a shark tank. I bet 90% of the first time posters to this forum never post again. They get chewed up and spit out with their first work pictures. Some of the guys on here can find something wrong with anything. Too many of them seem to like to see their words in print. I think it is a shame.

ok, seriously? I learned how to lay pavers and block from a boss who could spot the smallest imperfection from the street, and would rip you up one side and down the other and make you rip out and redo the whole thing, and stay working under the lights till it was done (ah, family). So someone on the internet gives you negative feedback- take a hard look at your work and decide if what they've said is valid or not, and be grateful. Better to find out early on, than to make a habit of sloppy work practices and become an easy target for those trying to outsell you on quality.

Having someone pat your head and tell you everything you do is wonderful doesn't help you succeed, if it's not all wonderful. I've been at this long enough that I can say that most of the criticisms I've seen here are spot-on and really helpful.

**sorry if I came across a little harsh- I just got back to the office from an appointment where I looked at the scariest deck I've seen in a while. And I bet the guy who built it would say "I did a good and the homeowner's happy, what's the big deal?"

DVS Hardscaper
08-07-2008, 07:27 PM
ok, seriously? I learned how to lay pavers and block from a boss who could spot the smallest imperfection from the street, and would rip you up one side and down the other and make you rip out and redo the whole thing, and stay working under the lights till it was done (ah, family). So someone on the internet gives you negative feedback- take a hard look at your work and decide if what they've said is valid or not, and be grateful. Better to find out early on, than to make a habit of sloppy work practices and become an easy target for those trying to outsell you on quality.





LOL - it sounds like you just described myself! I am one of those bosses that CAN spot imperfections, in a heartbeat. My guys always say I have "laser eyes", as I can tell if anything is out of grade or out of level by 1/4-inch. And yep, I iam notorious for making them rip out their work and re-do, even if it means they stay until 7:00 PM. I do this because I iwant them to KNOW that they better do it perfect, and if they don't - they're not getting away with it.

I seldom look at pictures that most here display. Not to sound arrogant, but I don't have time to critique other's work. Once in a while if I really see something wrong, I'll respond with the intent of helping to better them.

My interest is in numbers and business management. I've been in business since 1990 and have been doing hardscapes for 12 years and 4 months now (but who's counting!).

On another hardscape forum, where I shared our DETAILED hardscape proposal. It was posted with the intent to provide others with either the proposal itself, or to provide ideas.

LOL - one of the owners / mods, didn't like that our agreement amount is contigent to itemized quantities of certain materials. He rode my tail and rode my tail. Finally I responded to his comments. And my response was straight inline with what HE directed toward me. The truth can be brutal! LOL - and he bans me!

Seriously, I think it's great that Moose River gives us our freedom. And I'm thankful for that :)

PlatinumLandCon
08-07-2008, 10:47 PM
Andrew, I think you're really taking the PH thing too seriously. You were a touch too agressive, they were a touch too defensive, and thats what results from that since they have all the power. Take it with a grain of salt and don't get all worked up over it.

DVS Hardscaper
08-08-2008, 06:42 PM
certainly NOT worked up :)

It's rather comical!


Again, lets not stray off here, be be glad Moose River isn't concerned if we used 1x4's or twigs to retain our pavers!

Humble Earth Mover
08-09-2008, 10:47 AM
Andrew,

I've always thought you were a pretty good guy......BUT.....You come over to this site to sing the praises of Moose River in an attempt to backhandedly take a jab at the owners of another site. That seems like some passive aggressive, pseudo good guy bs. Why is it such a good thing that Moose River allows unfiltered information to spill into the industry? I don't see why it's such a bad thing if the information that is perpetrated on a site is kept in check by moderators who are knowledgeable, certified and passionate about the industry. Moose River has one goal regarding this site and that's to make money. They want to maintain a high membership so that they can charge top dollars for advertising......they certainly don't give two sh-ts about the integrity of industry. There is so much bad information mixed into this site, that it is hard to discern the difference between what's correct and what's faulty. Andrew, you are probably one of the most knowledgeable and informative people I've come across on these sites and this made you a great member of p r o h a r d s c a p e r . c o m. (I'm sure I'll be banned or deleted for saying that name while in the house of Moose) It's a shame that things ended the way they did over there, but why continue the drama on this site? I would hope that this issue could be resolved, or at least put to bed. I know myself and the other guys on the other site will miss the information that you were willing to share about the business end of things, but after your series of inflammatory posts, I'm sure the owners had to weigh the good with the bad and decided to temporarily forbid you to post. I'm sure you'd do the same if the roles were reversed. just my .02

Adam

DVS Hardscaper
08-09-2008, 04:26 PM
Adam,

jus' pointing out thats it's nice to be able to participate without havin to look over your shoulder :)

DVS Hardscaper
08-09-2008, 08:18 PM
....I'm sure the owners had to weigh the good with the bad and decided to temporarily forbid you to post. I'm sure you'd do the same if the roles were reversed. just my .02

Adam


I wasn't going to respond, but I think what I have quoted above is worthy of a response.

What Adam asks appears very level headed. But letz think about it

If the "roles were reversed" there would be nothing for me to weigh.

And here's why:

When someone makes to the effort to share something, or give something to others - I would NEVER, EVER bite the hand that feeds me, even if I disagree with it. If I was a moderator or owner it would be wrong for me to obsess over someone else's beliefs, so much so that it gets to the point where I'm banning and deleting. Doing so would be pig headed.

We Gotta be greatful that the folks at Moose River possess the integrity and maturity to not let their personal emotions interfere.

etwman
08-09-2008, 10:04 PM
.....exactly.

Adam's Lawn and Garden
08-10-2008, 11:24 PM
I don't know much about what happened with other sites and all that. However. I have asked and nagged certain people on this site to explain practices and what is done where and so on. With that being said, in hardscaping it HAS to be perfect the first time. If it isn't, it doesn't only look bad, it will probably fall apart. You shouldn't be out doing jobs that your not capable of doing and then posting asking for advice saying this is my first time doing the job so it's ok if it looks bad. At the end of the day it's still a clients house that it's being installed at, and theres no reason that your first clients should loose quality. I believe it's hard for some of the more experienced guys on this site to see jobs like this being done. If you want to do hardscaping, learn to do it right from legitimate sources and companies. Don't go testing it on customers houses. I'm not sure if that made any sense.

Adam