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View Full Version : fiber optics...in this situation?


irrig8r
08-07-2008, 01:11 AM
I have a customer who wants lights in the waterfall that spills into the pool. Most of the time there's no water running over it. They just turn it on when the pool is in use.

Someone before me installed a NS Flipper behind one of the boulders. When I got there it was yellowed and cracked and I ditched it and pulled the cable out of the area.

LV transformers are only 15 feet away, but do any fiber optics run on LV systems?

Google gets me to a lot of crappy sites that sell mostly to DIYs, and then other outdated info (like maybe three years old) referring me to companies who have moved or changed names since.

Where's a good site for contractors to buy from? Are there any fiber optics manus that provide training?

Anyone know anything about IlluminFX? Fiberstars? Something better?

NightScenes
08-07-2008, 07:25 AM
Gregg, I don't know of any low voltage fiber optics but if you have power just 15' away there shouldn't be an issue. IlluminfX works very well and you can get it from Terradek. Gerry is very knowledgeable about the product and if you can comb your hair in the morning, you can install that stuff (VERY SIMPLE).

Good luck,

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-07-2008, 08:44 AM
Nexxus lighting makes the waterfall back light that is awesome...I dont have time right now to send you direct link but go to www.nexxuslighting.com and follow the links to pool and spa division and then go to specialty lighting

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-07-2008, 08:45 AM
Does anyone get the feeling that Paul is now on Gerry's payrolll...what ever happened to Longhorn, you used to work for Longhorn didnt you Paul...lol...

NightScenes
08-07-2008, 08:48 AM
I do almost all of my puchasing through Longhorn but they don't carry the IlluminFX and Gerry is the one who turned me on to it also. Besides, Gerry is a great guy and know his s**t when it comes to lighting.

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-07-2008, 08:54 AM
your bat is turning the same time as my recycle thing...stop it...

I'm just teasing about Gerry...he is a good guy...just havent seen you send leads to longhorn lately...

NightScenes
08-07-2008, 09:07 AM
My bad, I guess I'll have to put together an add for Rich Swor and Longhorn Irrigation Supply in Texas. They do great by me, that's for sure.

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-07-2008, 09:11 AM
I'd just like to see those guys share some knowledge to us commoners more often..they only chime in when they are brought up or see a potential to get a client...they can share ideas here...I know they can I used to...Gerry, Rich, stop lurking and start sharing ideas and helping strangers out then you can...lol...I see you!!!!

JoeyD
08-07-2008, 09:25 AM
IlluminFX is a great company and make a great and very user friendly system. I have sold many of them and have installed a handfull. They work really well!

NiteTymeIlluminations
08-07-2008, 09:41 AM
I guess we need to klnow what kind of waterfall...big, small try type, etc...i never sugggest a side glow fiberoptic unless you are a fiber master...they just end up being a waste of money...if you are talking end glow, IlluminFz is very user friendly yes, but I think if you are serious about making a statement you'd be better off using Nexxus and getting some really nice fittings etc...its up to budget I think

irrig8r
08-07-2008, 10:18 AM
I'm sure they don't want it to look like Las Vegas... the waterfall is all rocks... I'll see if I can take pictures this week... and see how much water volume the pump puts out too.

End glow is probably what I want.

Thanks.

S&MLL
08-07-2008, 04:28 PM
I just finished an illumin fx system. Turned out real nice. Went with 12 strands all end emitter. 150watt metal halide bulb. Ordered the rm6000 controller. Not to satisfied with the range but it still works good. I wanted to sync the pools lights with my waterfall lights but wasn't going to happen. There lights had at least a 6 color wheel. Where mine is 4. Plus motors spin at different speed. It actually makes the waterfall stand out a lot better being different colors. I did a custom order kit....quite expensive but turned out amazing. Just remember to use hydraulic cement in water and back fill the holes with proper silicone. Also make sure you can fit the hilti in where you want the lines to come in. My client did not want to see a line or emitter anywhere so it was kind of hell to hide all the lines but it worked. A lot of drilling. Had to get a 1" * 36" bit. Well 235 dollars and 45 minute drive to Hilti I finally got through it. I wanted to put a side emitter in the waterfall drop box. But you can only order in sets of 4.

NightLightingFX
08-07-2008, 06:46 PM
Get some pics of your job and show us what you did.
~Ned

The Lighting Geek
08-07-2008, 08:30 PM
we just did a couple of very trick installs with illuminfx and it was very smooth. I also bought the 56 hilti and a couple 36" bits for fiber work. That thing drills like it's butter. I will post some pics later this week.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-07-2008, 08:46 PM
Gotta Love the Hilti Hammer Drills for sure. I do a LOT of custom rock mounted fixtures here (The Canadian Shield is the oldest rock on earth... lovely stuff)

I have a TE2-S and Tommy is right... drills holes as if you were going into butter.

S&MLL
08-08-2008, 06:38 PM
I will be going back to take pictures plus video hopefully.

Chris J
08-08-2008, 08:30 PM
(The Canadian Shield is the oldest rock on earth... lovely stuff)


Huh? I would think the oldest rock would be buried WAY underground somewhere. How did they come up with the conclusion that this was the oldest rock in the world? Interesting stuff; but then again, you always seem to exaggerate everything. No offense intended, of course. Everything seems to always be the best, biggest, most innovative idea in the world if it came from Canada; eh?

The Lighting Geek
08-08-2008, 10:45 PM
OK, here is a couple of pics from my last fiber optic job. We still need to add a couple of lights to fill in the middle dark section. we drilled the outer ring of the planter so people would not hit it.

Chris J
08-08-2008, 10:48 PM
Nice. Very nice..................

klkanders
08-08-2008, 11:26 PM
She's a beauty Tommy!

Chris J
08-08-2008, 11:38 PM
Although the pic is awesome, what is between the fountain and the pathway? Seems like there is about a 5' space that has foliage that is not visible. It would really set the scene off if that was visible in the overall portrait. Just thinking out loud.

The Lighting Geek
08-08-2008, 11:43 PM
your right, I need to add about 5 or so stellars to add light to the middle area. I wanted to see the fiber first to see how much ambient light it had outside of the fountain. It's dark there in the middle.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-09-2008, 08:27 AM
Huh? I would think the oldest rock would be buried WAY underground somewhere. How did they come up with the conclusion that this was the oldest rock in the world? Interesting stuff; but then again, you always seem to exaggerate everything. No offense intended, of course. Everything seems to always be the best, biggest, most innovative idea in the world if it came from Canada; eh?

Chris, its called Carbon Dating. Look into it. I'm not making anything up.

http://www.cbc.ca/geologic/eg_can_shield.html

TXNSLighting
08-09-2008, 03:10 PM
As usual, fantastic looking lighting Geek! ha!

Lite4
08-09-2008, 07:38 PM
Hey Tommy,
Where did you hide the fiber going to the bowl? Is it running up the central support? How are the endglows mounted in the bowl? Looks awesome brother, very nice work once again!

The Lighting Geek
08-09-2008, 10:10 PM
I had to have the customer go shopping before I peppered the fountain with holes. I ran the fiber up through the middle after taking it apart. That sucker was hella heavy! I used curly mounts from IlluminFX in the big bowl and putty on the upper two. Key is drilling exactly where you want the light to point and having an extra $8,000 for a new fountain in case you make a mistake.:)

irrig8r
08-09-2008, 10:29 PM
Hey Tommy,
Where did you hide the fiber going to the bowl? Is it running up the central support? How are the endglows mounted in the bowl? Looks awesome brother, very nice work once again!

I had the same questions. Looks great Tommy! Do you use a color wheel or just white?

The Lighting Geek
08-09-2008, 11:05 PM
i use the color white only, but they come with a 4 color wheel. I have another job with a 18 foot high waterfall that I used fiber optic and some nautilus together. looks very cool. i am waiting for the pond to be plastered and filled. i will post pics from it when it is done.

JoeyD
08-11-2008, 12:02 PM
Thats awesome Tommy! You know what else might work well for that dark area around the fountain is some taller area lights. Maybe something on 24" stem liek the Centaurus 6......you know the deal! It isnt your first rodeo!!! LOL

irrig8r
08-11-2008, 07:40 PM
Any of you see the new Tadpole LED Fiber Optic kits from IlluminFX yet? Not on the website, but last week I contacted them and they sent an info CD-ROM and some fliers.

I'm going to try to scan and attach it. My HP 7680 is supposed to be able to scan and save an a PDF file.... I'll see.

Voila!

Says it works with 12 V to 24 V, AC or DC... looks like one or two kits would fit a lot of fountains and small water features. At only 3 W per kit, I could see going with more (and custom lengths of FO cable) and have all the juice well away from the water.

Lite4
08-11-2008, 09:49 PM
I have looked at the fiber optic generators and you just aren't going to get as bright of a light as you do with the metal halides. I suppose it would work for fountains and such though.

S&MLL
08-11-2008, 10:39 PM
Firefly is right. The only demos I do are fo demos. I will normally bring a 150w metal system and the tadpole. Just the non led version. And by 12 ft or so there is barely any light output. If you can keep the cables short enough you should be alright

S&MLL
08-19-2008, 02:10 PM
Sorry it took so long to get photos.


here yah go

http://www.njlandscapelighting.com/fo11.jpg

http://www.njlandscapelighting.com/fo22.jpg

http://www.njlandscapelighting.com/fo33.jpg

http://www.njlandscapelighting.com/fo44.jpg

http://www.njlandscapelighting.com/fo55.jpg

NightLightingFX
08-19-2008, 03:07 PM
looks pretty cool!:cool2:
~Ned

JoeyD
08-19-2008, 04:24 PM
I am not big on colors but I will say that those pictures look awesome! I would do that in my yard!! Keep it white for most of the time but then turn the wheel on when I was entertaining or playing in the back! very cool!!

Mark B
08-19-2008, 04:45 PM
Keep it white for most of the time but then turn the wheel on when I was entertaining or playing in the back! very cool!!

What kind of playing are you planning when you need to colors?


Nice pictures.

S&MLL
08-19-2008, 05:08 PM
Thanks guys. I always take a bunch of pictures of every finished job. For something like this I normally use about 8 second exposure. But if i plan on using it for the cover of an ad i will use about a 30 second exposure rate. Yes the system turned out really nice. At first I was going to have a custom wheel made to math the pool but it stands out better being different colors. I will post another picture in a little bit to show how well the inside lit up.

S&MLL
08-19-2008, 05:21 PM
http://www.njlandscapelighting.com/fo66.jpg

Lite4
08-19-2008, 05:31 PM
The green remind me of an alien ship. Pretty cool. Nice photos. Did you use Illuminfx? What size? 150w metal halide generator?

S&MLL
08-20-2008, 06:03 PM
Yup Illuminfx 150w halide. With rm 6000 remote. 12 cables all end emitters. Had the custom lenths cut.

JoeyD
08-20-2008, 06:06 PM
What kind of playing are you planning when you need to colors?


Nice pictures.


The kind of playing that occurs once you are really hammered!!

:drinkup::drinkup:

Chris J
08-20-2008, 06:33 PM
Wow! That looks very cool! I don't like it at all, but it does look very interesting. If your client is pleased, then I have to say GREAT JOB!

irrig8r
08-21-2008, 05:00 PM
Wow! ..... I don't like it at all, but it does look very interesting......

Are you serious Chris?

I think it looks way cool.

I just want to know if you can synchronize it to music...

I'm looking forward to seeing that on youtube....

Chris J
08-21-2008, 07:14 PM
I'm just not a big fan of colors. I think it makes the property look overly dramatic and unnatural. I agree it does look very cool, but it's just not my thing.

S&MLL
08-21-2008, 07:25 PM
It's not every ones thing but if my client is happy then so I am. Pretty large estate. I wish I did the Landscape Lighting but the irrigation guy beat me to it. To bad his whole system is undervolted using nothing but 15310s and 15309s. Both very cheep looking fixtures IMHO. About 120 fixture running off 3 600Watt kichler trans. Not sure what the sprinkler guy was thinking but system looks like crap. Never adjusted a fixture. From every transformer i popped open everything was on the 12 volt tap. Oh well.

TXNSLighting
08-21-2008, 07:30 PM
It's not every ones thing but if my client is happy then so I am. Pretty large estate. I wish I did the Landscape Lighting but the irrigation guy beat me to it. To bad his whole system is undervolted using nothing but 15310s and 15309s. Both very cheep looking fixtures IMHO. About 120 fixture running off 3 600Watt kichler trans. Not sure what the sprinkler guy was thinking but system looks like crap. Never adjusted a fixture. From every transformer i popped open everything was on the 12 volt tap. Oh well.

OMG!! Seriously? You should probably let the homeowner know that one...

The Lighting Geek
08-21-2008, 08:28 PM
It's not every ones thing but if my client is happy then so I am. Pretty large estate. I wish I did the Landscape Lighting but the irrigation guy beat me to it. To bad his whole system is undervolted using nothing but 15310s and 15309s. Both very cheep looking fixtures IMHO. About 120 fixture running off 3 600Watt kichler trans. Not sure what the sprinkler guy was thinking but system looks like crap. Never adjusted a fixture. From every transformer i popped open everything was on the 12 volt tap. Oh well.

It always gets me when I don't get a job like that one and whoever did it, did it improperly, or worse yet, left it in an unsafe condition. But I have to tell ya, I love those guys! They make great opportunities for us to do the job over! And they will, someday. About 50% of our work lately has been redoing work by others. I don't trash the other guy, ever. I just state the facts and let the client come to his own conclusion. It really is pretty easy, especially if you bring along a copy of the NEC and show them why it is wrong or not working. Nate always says to put the substantiated facts out there and if the people are reasonable, you will win every time.

NightLightingFX
08-24-2008, 12:48 AM
I just finished an illumin fx system. Turned out real nice. Went with 12 strands all end emitter. 150watt metal halide bulb. Ordered the rm6000 controller. Not to satisfied with the range but it still works good. I wanted to sync the pools lights with my waterfall lights but wasn't going to happen. There lights had at least a 6 color wheel. Where mine is 4. Plus motors spin at different speed. It actually makes the waterfall stand out a lot better being different colors. I did a custom order kit....quite expensive but turned out amazing. Just remember to use hydraulic cement in water and back fill the holes with proper silicone. Also make sure you can fit the hilti in where you want the lines to come in. My client did not want to see a line or emitter anywhere so it was kind of hell to hide all the lines but it worked. A lot of drilling. Had to get a 1" * 36" bit. Well 235 dollars and 45 minute drive to Hilti I finally got through it. I wanted to put a side emitter in the waterfall drop box. But you can only order in sets of 4.

How many 12 strand end emitters did you use? I borrowed a illuminFX system from Terradek to show a prospect fiber optic lighting. I am starting to get an understanding of what and how you use the illuminFX system. Your pictures look great. And don't take any offense please, but from what I am seeing first hand on how bright fiber optics are. I am not too impressed. I think fiber optics are great for back yard water features. But I am not sure fiber optics will work very good in an area that needs a powerful beam of light.
~Ned

NightLightingFX
08-24-2008, 12:54 AM
FYI, here is a comparison of a 25 strand fiber optic end emitter vs. a 20 watt 35* OSRAM MR16. Both at 15 feet away from the side of the wall. I am sure you will be able to figure out which is which.
~Ned

S&MLL
08-24-2008, 01:46 AM
I see your pictures. Now are you running the 150watt metal halide system? I have pics of my waterfalls in white and they are much brighter then your picture. I normally use 25 fiber cables but for some reason i don't feel that your system is at full power. They also make a 250watt halogen bulb system. Also remember that being a foot under water is going to make a world of difference as well. I have just became a huge believer in fiber optic system. I have always been fasinated with fiber optics. So I guess I favor them more now then ever. Fiber optics is also very expensive. But its 16 fixtures and a transformer all in one. So it turns out to be the same. Maybe I'm just biased. Wait for some of the other guys to respond.

NightLightingFX
08-24-2008, 11:09 AM
It is the 250 watt halogen system. I was told there isn't a huge difference in brightness between the two - the metal halide is a little bit brighter. But from my first hand experience, fiber optics in general don't seem to be very bright. I am not against fiber optics I am just trying to learn what are good applications for them. You have proven they look great in a backyard waterfall. However, my conclusion is that they just don't have the brightness to be used in a commercial application where there may be a lot of ambient light. In your waterfall how many light emitters did you use?
~Ned

NightLightingFX
08-24-2008, 11:24 AM
OK, Tommy,
I forgot about your pics of your fiber optic fountain. I need some details on what you did on that job. What are the sizes of the bowls? How many light emiters did you use? And do you think the illuminFX system is bright enough to light a large commercial fountian where there will be some ambient light? Check out my threads regarding "Underwater Fixtures." I will also try to talk to you live about this situation.
~Ned