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View Full Version : Not to brag...........


bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 02:06 PM
***RANTING AND RAVING***


But, I was at my local Bobcat dealer with my Cat picking up a Landscape Rake for the day, as I was chaining down the skid steer, a local owner/operator pulled up beside me with his 335 mini. After he un-chained, he came over and gave my Cat 247 a good look through, his first comment was, “wow, that machine is built very stout”.

My reply was, “yeah, I used to be a Bobcat fanatic, but they just don't seem to stop breaking down.”

“Yeah, no sh*t, I know exactly what you mean!” he said laughing.

I asked him what is experiences were, and he told me that he owns a Komatsu and a Kubota excavator, both have cost him nothing in the years since he bought them, and never broke down, they get great fuel economy and they just keep on going.

His Kubota excavator, which is bigger than his Bobcat 335, has the same engine and gets better fuel economy and runs cooler, sure, it isn't built up as heavy as it should be, but it still keeps going.

His Bobcat however, a track spilt apart at 600 hours, it was in the shop for 2 weeks due to a cab problem that took awhile to be fixed, the windows are popping out of the frames and seals, the pins and bushings are all worn out, the quick attach sticks and doesn't always work, it runs hot (hydraulic and engine temps) it uses even more fuel than the Kubota, it vibrates terribly at idle and runs loud at WOT, it's shaky on the pilot controls and he really doesn't like it anymore. Once that machine hits 1000 hours, he's getting rid of it.

He also told me that everyone says that Cat was a higher price tag, but I told him, “at least they give you 24 hour service, these Bobcat buggers only work 8-10 hours and they go home, Finning has people on night shifts and on standby, that's what you pay extra for“.

I never asked why he bought it in the first place, I assume it might have been the dealer's low finance rates or a trade in value that was higher than anyone else, who knows, but he was not happy to be there again.

I didn't get much of a chance to talk with him after that, there was a sudden influx of owner/operators with their loaders/excavators (assumably all broke down) coming in, and I was taking up the best parking spot. As I drove away, I thought, “I'm glad I don't own a Bobcat skid steer or mini excavator, I love my Cat, it never breaks down.”

Gravel Rat
08-08-2008, 02:38 PM
Where was this at Bobcat Country or Surfwood ?

bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 03:20 PM
Bobcat Country, but I'll bet my third nut there are more customers like that at just about every Bobcat dealership.

JohnnyRoyale
08-08-2008, 03:24 PM
I wont be the one to ask but I'm sure someone else on this forum is going to want to see a pic of that 3rd nut of yours.

SiteSolutions
08-08-2008, 03:31 PM
Not to rain on your parade but how long have you had your Cat? It's nice and all but how many hours are on the meter? :rolleyes:

I was all giddy about everything new I've ever had in the first few months... it's called the honeymoon. And it always wears off.

I hope your machine runs for 4000 hours without a single issue. But let us know when you get to 500 hours.

bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 03:33 PM
Don't we all have a third nut? I have a third nipple.

But on a serious note, I don't know how anyone can justify buying a Bobcat product after reading something like this now or in the past, even as I was walking around the yard after dropping off my rake this morning, there were at least 25 new machines, some skid steers ranging from the S130 to a T320, not one of those machines had the SJC option, that should be a dead give away to Bobcat's problems, and the rest were mini excavators, not the least bit impressive to me with all their "eye candy".
And every time I come to the dealer for rentals, the shop is jammed to the walls with mostly new machines and older units in for minor and major repairs, and every mechanic is working on something.

That is one Compact Equipment company that will never have to worry about a failing economy, their crap is always breaking and leaking, kinda like getting into the Funeral Home business, that's one line of work that never ends!! http://deephousepage.com/smilies/eusa_dance.gif

Gravel Rat
08-08-2008, 03:39 PM
Well I heard Finnings sales are so bad they are pulling out of B.C. completely :laugh:

Bobcats quality has been going down hill for quite a few years who knows what is going to happen when Daewoo takes over.

bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 03:40 PM
Not to rain on your parade but how long have you had your Cat? It's nice and all but how many hours are on the meter? :rolleyes:

I was all giddy about everything new I've ever had in the first few months... it's called the honeymoon. And it always wears off.

I hope your machine runs for 4000 hours without a single issue. But let us know when you get to 500 hours.

I know I'm on the Honeymoon stage, but as I recall, after 200 hours on my Boobcrap, I was already cleaning out the radiators and changing fuel filters, the cab needed major sealing (I found the real big gap in the frame)the bolts from the main tilt pins had to be tightened and I had already replaced 3 grease fittings on the tilt-tach because they snapped off when a rock clipped them.
It was the little things that had to addressed on the Bobcat's Honeymoon period.
This morning, after I got home, I grabbed the water hose and gave the engine bay and radiator a wash out, pulled the air filter out and tapped it clean and pulled the cab filters out and washed them out with soapy water.
Bobcat discourages tapping the air filters and using water to clean the radiators, you need to use compressed air and remove the top radiator to get the bottom 2 rads clean, very time consuming and it burns if the rads are hot!

bobcat_ron
08-08-2008, 03:43 PM
Well I heard Finnings sales are so bad they are pulling out of B.C. completely :laugh:

Bobcats quality has been going down hill for quite a few years who knows what is going to happen when Daewoo takes over.


That was one item I talked about with one of the owners, I asked them if they had heard about the new Bobcat changes, he said no, they were going to stick with the tried and tested, side engine and side pumps, that's what works, and that's the best. :laugh:

I do recall something here about inline pumps and engines for the new Doocats?

SiteSolutions
08-08-2008, 03:44 PM
I would like to have a look at one of the solid u/c Cats, maybe when the C series cabs come to the medium frame loaders. And maybe after I get caught up on my rent-to-own payments on the harley rake I am buying from the Cat dealer... they probably don't want to try to sell me anything else right now.

Gravel Rat
08-08-2008, 03:59 PM
Surfwood Supply should get rid of the Bobcat and try get the Takeuchi line up.

There is still lots of die hard Bobcat people out there :laugh:

Junior M
08-08-2008, 07:20 PM
he had that many problems with a 335?the pins and bushings are probably the owners fault from not greasing but they could be faulty to but i love that machine we rent one with a cab from our bobcat when we can and we never had a problem with it we have put over a 150 hours on it by ourselves and never a problem with it. my dad has been friends with one of the mechanics there for a long time and he said it has never been in for anything other than regular service and fixing the stuff stupid people break. every brand has its lemons every now and then.

stuvecorp
08-09-2008, 12:51 AM
***RANTING AND RAVING***


But, I was at my local Bobcat dealer with my Cat picking up a Landscape Rake for the day, as I was chaining down the skid steer, a local owner/operator pulled up beside me with his 335 mini. After he un-chained, he came over and gave my Cat 247 a good look through, his first comment was, “wow, that machine is built very stout”.

My reply was, “yeah, I used to be a Bobcat fanatic, but they just don't seem to stop breaking down.”

“Yeah, no sh*t, I know exactly what you mean!” he said laughing.

I asked him what is experiences were, and he told me that he owns a Komatsu and a Kubota excavator, both have cost him nothing in the years since he bought them, and never broke down, they get great fuel economy and they just keep on going.

His Kubota excavator, which is bigger than his Bobcat 335, has the same engine and gets better fuel economy and runs cooler, sure, it isn't built up as heavy as it should be, but it still keeps going.

His Bobcat however, a track spilt apart at 600 hours, it was in the shop for 2 weeks due to a cab problem that took awhile to be fixed, the windows are popping out of the frames and seals, the pins and bushings are all worn out, the quick attach sticks and doesn't always work, it runs hot (hydraulic and engine temps) it uses even more fuel than the Kubota, it vibrates terribly at idle and runs loud at WOT, it's shaky on the pilot controls and he really doesn't like it anymore. Once that machine hits 1000 hours, he's getting rid of it.

He also told me that everyone says that Cat was a higher price tag, but I told him, “at least they give you 24 hour service, these Bobcat buggers only work 8-10 hours and they go home, Finning has people on night shifts and on standby, that's what you pay extra for“.

I never asked why he bought it in the first place, I assume it might have been the dealer's low finance rates or a trade in value that was higher than anyone else, who knows, but he was not happy to be there again.

I didn't get much of a chance to talk with him after that, there was a sudden influx of owner/operators with their loaders/excavators (assumably all broke down) coming in, and I was taking up the best parking spot. As I drove away, I thought, “I'm glad I don't own a Bobcat skid steer or mini excavator, I love my Cat, it never breaks down.”

Ya gotta put the Kool-Aid down.

That 190 cost you dearly though, I remember when you posted all the repairs and wondered how you made any money. Hope your Kitty does better but why pay more to start with? Don't really want to start anything, just my .02

YellowDogSVC
08-09-2008, 02:22 AM
Not to rain on anyone's honeymoon, but my CAT barely made it through the first day of a paid job without overheating. The AC problems came later and stayed. For the state of the art C series that it was supposed to be, it gave me more trouble than my 1997 863c Bobcat which was a total headache.

I was all sold on CAT until all the problems about sunk my company. Add in lousy service and it drove me back to Bobcat even though it is a step back in comfort.
Yes, I finally picked up my s330. Had some modifications done. Took 2 weeks in the shop and more than 5 weeks since I ordered it. I have to remember all the Bobcat idiosyncrasies while I test it over the weekend. So far, so good. Took about 8 hours to seal up everything I could find and it still leaked dust when I grinded but not as bad as the pressurized CAT the day after it was back from the shop and "fixed".

I didn't think the C series machines were built all that solid. Lift arms yes. Frame, no. Too flimsy if you ask me. Felt like the machine needed a thicker hull and firmer sides. Though the cab is comfortable in the C series, there is too much of it and too little meat on the frame. I think there will be a D series sooner rather than later after Bobcat releases its ultra large frame machines with upgraded cabs and hp.

BrandonV
08-09-2008, 10:16 AM
Not to rain on your parade but how long have you had your Cat? It's nice and all but how many hours are on the meter? :rolleyes:

I was all giddy about everything new I've ever had in the first few months... it's called the honeymoon. And it always wears off.

I hope your machine runs for 4000 hours without a single issue. But let us know when you get to 500 hours.

our 287b has 1600hrs on it now and the only mechanical problem we've had to date it the radiator hose came loose. They are undoubtly the best engineered skids out there in my opinion. I can understand concerns about the undercarriage and tracks but as far as the workings go I couldn't be happier. We too had a bobcat 864 still have it infact and it has been nothing but a slew of electrical/sensors/idlers/wheel barring problems one after another. The cat was a real breath of fresh air to me. Now that being said my bobcat dealer in Asheboro is top notch in their service department.

bobcat_ron
08-09-2008, 10:38 AM
You need to remember one fact, Cat's quality of steel is far higher and stronger than the steel that Bobcat calls "American Steel" even though it might look like it needs to be thicker, it's extremely strong and resilient.

I still think I can fix the dust issues on a C Series, my Cab is sealed tight, the only dust I now get is from opening/closing the door, I am also using pre-filters on my cab filters.

I am glad I wasn't the only person to have problems with a Bobcat, I still laugh every time I remember what one of the Bobcat dealer's head field mechanic told me, "Bobcat's always leak, I don't know why, 80% of my repairs are due to burst lines or leaking oil".

Built In United States of America with Pride, yeah, right, no thanks. Cat sure has been around a lot longer than Bobcat, and they know how to build a hydraulic system (with some Japanese influence) that works and lasts.

BrandonV
08-09-2008, 12:27 PM
the cats are assembled here in NC I get to see truck loads of skeletons heading from the frame assembly plant (I think up in the mountains) heading towards the final assembly plants out towards to coast. Reason enough for me to buy them i guess. keep that $ in NC

YellowDogSVC
08-09-2008, 12:47 PM
Any machine is only as good as the service and support it receives.

bobcatuser
08-09-2008, 02:03 PM
Any machine is only as good as the service and support it receives.

That’s what I think.

I have just over 3000 hours on my 334 excavator. The only repairs I have done are.

Replaced muffler under warranty at 700 hours, Replaced hydraulic thumb at 2200 hrs (I do a lot of work with rock/concrete and it was getting worn out) Rubber tracks at 1400-1500 Hrs.

Fix the broken glass and left all the scratches/dents bent canopy handle from hired help, lesson learned NO EMPLOYES.

I get the PM service work done close to the intervals, Grease ALL the fittings as needed, wash the machine inside and out when I have time.

I have owned used machine that were abused and not serviced, they all cost more in the long run. That’s why I buy new.

Gravel Rat
08-09-2008, 02:22 PM
What helps is regular maintenance and a daily inspection. If you run the same machine long enough you can spot problems before they happen.

YellowDogSVC
08-09-2008, 04:02 PM
What helps is regular maintenance and a daily inspection. If you run the same machine long enough you can spot problems before they happen.

Yep. It's funny, though. You get so used to a machine that you may not notice when it's finally got a small problem. Helps to take a day and just go over everything or get a 2nd set of eyes. I do a lot of PM myself but will have a service call a few times a year just to see if I missed anything. My machines are still like new after 1000 hours other than scratches because I don't let anyone operate. Not saying I'm perfect, I back into stuff with the best of them, but it's my investment so I take a little extra diligence when operating. It's the only way to protect my investment from my point of view. I have seen and rented too many machines that were abused.

ksss
08-09-2008, 06:47 PM
You need to remember one fact, Cat's quality of steel is far higher and stronger than the steel that Bobcat calls "American Steel" even though it might look like it needs to be thicker, it's extremely strong and resilient.

I still think I can fix the dust issues on a C Series, my Cab is sealed tight, the only dust I now get is from opening/closing the door, I am also using pre-filters on my cab filters.

I am glad I wasn't the only person to have problems with a Bobcat, I still laugh every time I remember what one of the Bobcat dealer's head field mechanic told me, "Bobcat's always leak, I don't know why, 80% of my repairs are due to burst lines or leaking oil".

Built In United States of America with Pride, yeah, right, no thanks. Cat sure has been around a lot longer than Bobcat, and they know how to build a hydraulic system (with some Japanese influence) that works and lasts.


Where do you get this CAT steel is stronger than BC steel? BCron you need to back off the pipe, or pay more for better sh!t.

bobcat_ron
08-09-2008, 07:52 PM
Where do you get this CAT steel is stronger than BC steel? BCron you need to back off the pipe, or pay more for better sh!t.

It's true, look at their buckets on the skid steers, used machines come back with over 2000 hours and the cutting edges aren't even ready to be turned, Bobcat buckets come off Bobcat rental skid steers after 1000 hours, and they are bent in the middle and dented.
My Bobcat combo bucket has only been used on my T190 for barely 4 years, it has scalloping between the teeth, and the teeth were only on that bucket for the last year, I spent 1 month in the gravel and the bucket has seen more wear than it has ever seen in it's life, it's bent and severely rounded on the front, and the sides of the bucket is over 5/16" thick, and it wears fast. The pictures I posted (quite awhile back) showing a new cutting edge that was welded to the bucket even show how weak Bobcat steel is, I hardly ever used that clam edge, and yet it wore down to nothing.



Go to the gravel pits and take a close look around at the rock buckets that are on the Cat loaders, they are Cat factory buckets, but around here, any gravel pit that has Deere, Komatsu or Case loaders, all have buckets from outside companies like CWS, DESTEC, DAEQUIP and QUAD, but everyone who runs the Cat loaders will tell you the same, their steel is tough, they don't need special buckets to cut down on wear.

NHMan
08-09-2008, 10:47 PM
Wow..its getting deep in here.

Gravel Rat
08-10-2008, 05:20 AM
The other thing to keep up is the engine clean so you don't have dirt frosting all over your engine. Its too hard to see oil leaks etc.

Everyday you kind of do a pre trip on the machine seeing if there is chaffing of hoses or you have something bleeding. Then you have lots of stuff you just can prevent like the engine blowing a rod :laugh:

When you do alot of wrench pulling like I do you get used to looking at the usual places and using your hands pulling on things.

Its just second nature even when I'am looking at somebody elses truck I look and spot either a loose lug nut or a broken part. I say to them oh you have a cracked leaf spring and they say no we don't they go check and its oh crap we do have a cracked spring :cry:

I can't stand it when people just run their equipment and don't do any PM. For me if I spot something on a machine I'am working with I will write it down keep a eye on this part. I hate working on a machine that has blown a hose that should have been changed a lont time ago. Now you have a oily mess to contend with.

You nose is a important tool especially when it comes to coolant and hydraulic leaks.

Lots of fun pulling wrenches you learn lots of ways to use the "F" word or just scream it at the top of your lungs :drinkup:

YellowDogSVC
08-10-2008, 01:36 PM
It's true, look at their buckets on the skid steers, used machines come back with over 2000 hours and the cutting edges aren't even ready to be turned, Bobcat buckets come off Bobcat rental skid steers after 1000 hours, and they are bent in the middle and dented.
My Bobcat combo bucket has only been used on my T190 for barely 4 years, it has scalloping between the teeth, and the teeth were only on that bucket for the last year, I spent 1 month in the gravel and the bucket has seen more wear than it has ever seen in it's life, it's bent and severely rounded on the front, and the sides of the bucket is over 5/16" thick, and it wears fast. The pictures I posted (quite awhile back) showing a new cutting edge that was welded to the bucket even show how weak Bobcat steel is, I hardly ever used that clam edge, and yet it wore down to nothing.
r.


I think that has more to do with the geometry of the bucket (the bending).Also, there are a number of different grades of bucket for Bobcat as you know. My CI bobcat buckets hold up really good. I have bent two doing stumps which led me to buy a blue diamond stump bucket but that's another story. That cat buckets are more shallow and not as much leverage to get one bent. I did not see evidence of better steel on my C series. In fact, I thought my bucket dented as well as any other make. Ditto for the machine. The underbelly of the CAT is not very thick and the clean out plates and inspection plate in the rear are real thin. The rental that was brought to me had less than 150 hrs and was bent to heck. Door, bottom plate, inspection plate beat up real bad.

I do think the CAT teeth on the rock buckets are a better type of tooth but can't vouch for differences in steel.

YellowDogSVC
08-10-2008, 01:37 PM
Lots of fun pulling wrenches you learn lots of ways to use the "F" word or just scream it at the top of your lungs :drinkup:

Especially when you tear the skin off your knuckles!!!!!!!!!

mrsops
08-10-2008, 02:10 PM
Not to rain on anyone's honeymoon, but my CAT barely made it through the first day of a paid job without overheating. The AC problems came later and stayed. For the state of the art C series that it was supposed to be, it gave me more trouble than my 1997 863c Bobcat which was a total headache.

I was all sold on CAT until all the problems about sunk my company. Add in lousy service and it drove me back to Bobcat even though it is a step back in comfort.
Yes, I finally picked up my s330. Had some modifications done. Took 2 weeks in the shop and more than 5 weeks since I ordered it. I have to remember all the Bobcat idiosyncrasies while I test it over the weekend. So far, so good. Took about 8 hours to seal up everything I could find and it still leaked dust when I grinded but not as bad as the pressurized CAT the day after it was back from the shop and "fixed".

I didn't think the C series machines were built all that solid. Lift arms yes. Frame, no. Too flimsy if you ask me. Felt like the machine needed a thicker hull and firmer sides. Though the cab is comfortable in the C series, there is too much of it and too little meat on the frame. I think there will be a D series sooner rather than later after Bobcat releases its ultra large frame machines with upgraded cabs and hp.

hey yellow how do you like your s330

Gravel Rat
08-10-2008, 02:42 PM
Especially when you tear the skin off your knuckles!!!!!!!!!

Been there stop work get some paper towel and electricians tape and back to work :laugh:


As for strength of steel the harder the steel more wear resistant but it is brittle. It used to be T1 was the strongest bucket material that isn't the case anymore.

ksss
08-10-2008, 03:56 PM
I think that has more to do with the geometry of the bucket (the bending).Also, there are a number of different grades of bucket for Bobcat as you know. My CI bobcat buckets hold up really good. I have bent two doing stumps which led me to buy a blue diamond stump bucket but that's another story. That cat buckets are more shallow and not as much leverage to get one bent. I did not see evidence of better steel on my C series. In fact, I thought my bucket dented as well as any other make. Ditto for the machine. The underbelly of the CAT is not very thick and the clean out plates and inspection plate in the rear are real thin. The rental that was brought to me had less than 150 hrs and was bent to heck. Door, bottom plate, inspection plate beat up real bad.

I do think the CAT teeth on the rock buckets are a better type of tooth but can't vouch for differences in steel.


The type of steel that CAT specs for their buckets and the thickness of its skid steer structure have nothing in common. I know, that you know, that to be the case. Unless you have proof that CAT steel in their frames is better than others I would lay off that claim. The claim has no basis of fact.