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ZX12R
08-08-2008, 09:42 PM
I checked flow with the bucket method. Meter is 5/8" to 3/4" copper to 3/4" backflow to 1" pvc. In 30 seconds,5.5 gallons of water came out which is 11 gpm.

Static pressure was 52 psi.

Can anyone help me with the lawn part of the irrigation system now? Based on earlier reccomendations,I was going to go with Hunter SS I-20's. I was going to use 4 heads per zone. Are my flow and GPM numbers fine for this?

Also,in reference to total GPM for each zone,do I use the number I got which was 11,or do I use 80% of that which would be 8.8?


By the way,the main will be 1"poly and all laterals will be kept 1" also.

Waterit
08-08-2008, 10:03 PM
It's always best to have some cushion - stay 9GPM or below. That should support your 4 I-20's per zone, although pressure is on the low side. What nozzle and spacing are you using? You have to factor in PSI loss in the piping. I have no idea about poly specs, I'm a PVC guy. If I was installing your system I'd be using a 1" main, 1" DV-100's, and breaking down to 3/4 pipe as fast as I can. Don't see the need for 1" laterals in this case.

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 10:03 PM
Use PGPs instead. Same gear drive. More useful range of nozzles for a newbie.

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 10:40 PM
"It's always best to have some cushion - stay 9GPM or below. That should support your 4 I-20's per zone, although pressure is on the low side. What nozzle and spacing are you using? You have to factor in PSI loss in the piping. I have no idea about poly specs, I'm a PVC guy. If I was installing your system I'd be using a 1" main, 1" DV-100's, and breaking down to 3/4 pipe as fast as I can. Don't see the need for 1" laterals in this case."


Thanks Waterit,maybe I will shoot for 8 GPM to stay on the safe side. A couple questions if you dont mind. What are DV-100'S? Why would you break down to 3/4" laterals? I thought that 1" laterals would have more water available to use than 3/4"? Am I wrong on that?

I do not know what nozzles I should use as I have not mapped out my lawn just yet. I was thinking of putting heads 20-25 feet apart to be safe.

You said you think my pressure is low.I went to hunters site and it looks like my pressure falls in line with their specs.Please take a look at the specs below and let me know what you think.Thanks

• Recommended pressure range:
40 to 60 psi (2.8 to 4.1 bars; 275 to 413 kPa)
• Operating pressure range: 20 to 100 PSI (1.4 to 6.9 bars; 137 to 689 kPa)

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 10:46 PM
Use PGPs instead. Same gear drive. More useful range of nozzles for a newbie.


Wet,you do not think these nozzles for the I-20 will suit my needs? See link below please.Thanks


http://www.hunterindustries.com/Products/Rotors/i20blueintro.html

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 10:49 PM
52 psi is not enough. Be kind to yourself and stick with PGPs.

Mike Leary
08-08-2008, 10:50 PM
Static pressure was 52 psi.
Static don't mean diddly squat; got to measure zone need + friction lossl

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 11:02 PM
52 psi is not enough. Be kind to yourself and stick with PGPs.


OK,I will take your advice.I am dissapointed I won't get to use the pretty I-20's. :cry:

What kind of spacing would you suggest? Also,should I stay away of full circles if I can?

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 11:04 PM
Static don't mean diddly squat; got to measure zone need + friction lossl

Do I measure zone need by figuring out my GPM usage for each zone?

Mike Leary
08-08-2008, 11:13 PM
Do I measure zone need by figuring out my GPM usage for each zone?

Yup, then you figure the pressure loss thru the pipes & fittings. 50 psi static
is not something to celebrate; be carefull. I bet you get around 6 gpm
@ 35 psi.

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 11:18 PM
Wet Boots,what about the Rainbird 5000 plus? Would that be in the same field of the PGP? If so,which would you suggest?

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 11:24 PM
Yup, then you figure the pressure loss thru the pipes & fittings. 50 psi static
is not something to celebrate; be carefull. I bet you get around 6 gpm
@ 35 psi.


OK,thanks Mike. Given my numbers,should I keep each zone at no more than 6 GPM? I think I can do that no problem,I am not watering a huge area.

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 11:26 PM
PGP has the better track record, as far as the head continuing to rotate goes.

ZX12R
08-08-2008, 11:36 PM
Ok Wet,pgp it is. I was just reading nozzle specs. It comes standard with red nozzles which operate at 30 psi.The blue nozzles operate at 25 psi. I should go with the blue,correct?

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 11:41 PM
You want to try for 30-35 psi at the heads. I never use the blue nozzles, because I never have pressures too low for the regular red nozzles.

Mike Leary
08-08-2008, 11:42 PM
You want to try for 30-35 psi at the heads. I never use the blue nozzles, because I never have pressures too low for the regular red nozzles.
He does........

Wet_Boots
08-08-2008, 11:46 PM
He does........No he doesn't. Just zone it for the appropriate amount of water, and keep the pressures up. Important during a wet summer install, where static pressures figure to be higher than in drier times.

Mike Leary
08-08-2008, 11:51 PM
Just zone it for the appropriate amount of water, and keep the pressures up.
" Gee, Uncle Boots, is that the whole irrigation deal?"

Kiril
08-09-2008, 12:38 AM
50 psi static is not something to celebrate; be carefull.

Ditto..........

AI Inc
08-09-2008, 06:45 AM
52 psi is not enough. Be kind to yourself and stick with PGPs.

Im with boots on this. Will I20,s work? Probably , Will pgp,s perform good with what you have to work with? Definatly.

AI Inc
08-09-2008, 06:49 AM
OK,I will take your advice.I am dissapointed I won't get to use the pretty I-20's. :cry:

What kind of spacing would you suggest? Also,should I stay away of full circles if I can?

You can space em at 30 ft, you can use full circles if you do it the old school way, no more then 4 on a zone , keep nozzles the same as half circles and double your run time.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-09-2008, 07:11 AM
Below 50psi I like maxipaws.

DanaMac
08-09-2008, 08:44 AM
You can space em at 30 ft, you can use full circles if you do it the old school way, no more then 4 on a zone , keep nozzles the same as half circles and double your run time.

If pressure is at 52 psi, I would keep the spacing at 24'-27' max. 30' you would still have head-to-head, but not much breakdown of the water stream.

Wet_Boots
08-09-2008, 08:46 AM
Of course, it still isn't known what backflow preventer will be used. An RPZ will complicate matters.

DanaMac
08-09-2008, 08:50 AM
Of course, it still isn't known what backflow preventer will be used. An RPZ will complicate matters.

True. And if there is major uphill travel for the zones.

If there is a PRV, see if you can adjust the pressure up.

jimmyburg
08-09-2008, 06:50 PM
use the pgp with the blue nozzels

Mike Leary
08-09-2008, 08:11 PM
[QUOTE=AI Inc;2458179 do it the old school way[/QUOTE]

Something wrong with that, punk? :waving::drinkup:

AI Inc
08-09-2008, 08:29 PM
Something wrong with that, punk? :waving::drinkup:

Not at all , I do it when I have to.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-09-2008, 09:26 PM
put in the 300

hoskm01
08-10-2008, 10:14 AM
How about a booster, if there's no PR to adjust up?

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 10:19 AM
It's a small property, and the odds are that it's heavier clay soil, so a guy can do just fine with head-to-head PGPs with small nozzles.

hoskm01
08-10-2008, 10:30 AM
It's a small property, and the odds are that it's heavier clay soil, so a guy can do just fine with head-to-head PGPs with small nozzles.
But that's no fun!

Kiril
08-10-2008, 10:48 AM
It's a small property, and the odds are that it's heavier clay soil, so a guy can do just fine with head-to-head PGPs with small nozzles.

Odds are the soils around Morris are sandy/stony loams

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 10:55 AM
Odds are the soils around Morris are sandy/stony loamsIn the southern part, perhaps. The recently protected Highlands are not so loamy. Really a chance thing, sometimes, depending on where the edge of the ancient ice sheet was. You can have pockets of gravelly sand in the midst of clay.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 11:01 AM
In the southern part, perhaps. The recently protected Highlands are not so loamy. Really a chance thing, sometimes, depending on where the edge of the ancient ice sheet was. You can have pockets of gravelly sand in the midst of clay.

Aren't assumptions great ............. :nono:

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 11:09 AM
Screw your charts. I got shovel time there.

hoskm01
08-10-2008, 11:26 AM
Screw your charts. I got shovel time there.
That gets points over charts any day.

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 11:38 AM
The moraines are kind of weird. You have soils tending toward rock and clay, and then you see sand so porous, that you can water 3-4 times as much as a few blocks away.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 11:44 AM
Screw your charts. I got shovel time there.

Responses like that just demonstrates your ignorance of what is involved in a soil survey. Nuff said.

hoskm01
08-10-2008, 11:49 AM
The moraines are kind of weird. You have soils tending toward rock and clay, and then you see sand so porous, that you can water 3-4 times as much as a few blocks away.
I dont know how things are "over there", but weve got heavy clay here in most places and a gravel pit for soil, next neighborhood over. Geological composition can be random, though typically reflected in surveys, to relative accuracy. I wouldnt bet my beer on any survey though.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 11:59 AM
I wouldnt bet my beer on any survey though.

And I wouldn't bet my beer on some ditch diggers visual observation :laugh:

hoskm01
08-10-2008, 12:05 PM
And I wouldn't bet my beer on some ditch diggers visual observation :laugh:
True... But the survey that says an area is primarily composed of one soil type versus the guy who's been digging the area for some time... Gotta believe the guy with the shovel, assuming he can distinguish between two different soil types, which I bet Boots can.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 12:17 PM
True... But the survey that says an area is primarily composed of one soil type versus the guy who's been digging the area for some time... Gotta believe the guy with the shovel, assuming he can distinguish between two different soil types, which I bet Boots can.

Barring exotic soil introduction, I'm placing my bet on the measured physical and chemical properties of the soils surveyed, not a visual best guess.

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 12:28 PM
Responses like that just demonstrates your ignorance of what is involved in a soil survey. Nuff said.I don't water soil surveys. I water lawns. With much of Morris county consisting of uplands, there isn't much to make you think you're looking at sandy loam.I dont know how things are "over there", but weve got heavy clay here in most places and a gravel pit for soil, next neighborhood over. Geological composition can be random, though typically reflected in surveys, to relative accuracy. I wouldnt bet my beer on any survey though.I haven't worked the extreme south end of that county, but I think you have to go even further south before you run into the sort of sand that the Pine Barrens region is composed of. I suppose there is a map of the Ice Age coverage, which would correspond to the sandy pockets today.

bicmudpuppy
08-10-2008, 01:38 PM
And I wouldn't bet my beer on some ditch diggers visual observation :laugh:

Major difference between ditch diggers and lab rat/LA/office types. Because some moron put it on a chart or in a book, and another moron published it for profit, that it must be the new gospel. A little time down in the ditches instead of playing high and mighty will illuminate your ignorance and lack of site. Come down a little. The view down here isn't as grand and it wreaks of reality, but is isn't as cloudy either.

I expect another lofty reply, and I've never used the ignore button, even in a yahoo game forum, but your close.

Waterit
08-10-2008, 01:42 PM
Kiril and Boots, go to your rooms and don't come out until you can behave.

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 01:52 PM
Someday I'll find and post my water-supply-estimating equation, and you can all have fun ripping it apart :)

This thread is, theoretically, about assisting the OP with his inquiries.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 02:28 PM
I don't water soil surveys. I water lawns.

Silly me, and here I thought the purpose of irrigation was to replenish soil water. :hammerhead:

With much of Morris county consisting of uplands, there isn't much to make you think you're looking at sandy loam.I haven't worked the extreme south end of that county, but I think you have to go even further south before you run into the sort of sand that the Pine Barrens region is composed of. I suppose there is a map of the Ice Age coverage, which would correspond to the sandy pockets today.

Same result for north end of the country (Woodstock & Petersburg area). Funny thing is, I've looked in 5 different areas in Morris County and the results are the generally the same, fine to coarse sandy loams dominate, no mention of clays.

Care to provide a specific area where you have observed these "heavier clay soils" so the OP can determine if your "observations" are applicable.

p.s. I wouldn't have even pointed this stuff out Boots if you didn't make it your mission in life to give me a hard time. How's that medicine tasting right about now?

Mike Leary
08-10-2008, 02:29 PM
I expect another lofty reply, and I've never used the ignore button, even in a yahoo game forum, but your close.

A few of us used it when CSR came busting through the door.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 02:30 PM
Major difference between ditch diggers and lab rat/LA/office types. Because some moron put it on a chart or in a book, and another moron published it for profit, that it must be the new gospel. A little time down in the ditches instead of playing high and mighty will illuminate your ignorance and lack of site. Come down a little. The view down here isn't as grand and it wreaks of reality, but is isn't as cloudy either.

I expect another lofty reply, and I've never used the ignore button, even in a yahoo game forum, but your close.

Another moronic response from the peanut gallery. FYI mudpup, 50-60% of my time IS spent in the ditches, and my hands get dirty every day, and have been for the past 15 years. Your cheap shots are getting old. You really want to go down this road, so be it.

On the other hand, please use your ignore button, but before you do you might want to re-read some of your posts ..... talk about high and mighty.

Mike Leary
08-10-2008, 02:36 PM
Another moronic response from the peanut gallery.

Pics of your systems, please.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 02:49 PM
Pics of your systems, please.

I'm not the one with the 24/7 presence on this forum now am I. You got your pics earlier this week, deal with it.

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 02:51 PM
Care to provide a specific area where you have observed these "heavier clay soils" so the OP can determine if your "observations" are applicable.When I was working in northrn San Diego county, I was seeing sandy lowlands, and heavy clay on the hills. Are there really any sandy hills to be found? I would think that rain would eventually erode them away, and take the sand to lower elevations. Jersey exists on a much smaller scale, but the same idea applies. The Highlands area is not likely to be washing away anytime soon, with the exception of the occasional afternoon with fifteen inches of rain.

p.s. I wouldn't have even pointed this stuff out Boots if you didn't make it your mission in life to give me a hard time. How's that medicine tasting right about now?My mission in life is to have fun when I'm on the internet, and not to be about 'scoring points' in disputes. Can I help it if all those charts and such make you out like Margaret Dumont to my Groucho Marx?

Kiril
08-10-2008, 03:09 PM
OK, so no location. :rolleyes:

My mission in life is to have fun when I'm on the internet, and not to be about 'scoring points' in disputes.

Could have fooled me, especially given the way you and mudpup come after me on just about everything I post lately. So if I understand it correctly, because I make use of my education and all the available resources at my disposal in order to make sound management and design decisions, this somehow makes me what ..... a piker ..... a personal whipping post for old and cranky irrigators who have nothing better to do than ***** and moan, or perhaps just smart.

Mike Leary
08-10-2008, 03:14 PM
I'm not the one with the 24/7 presence on this forum now am I. You got your pics earlier this week, deal with it.

Valve boxes doth not tell me squat, unless I missed something.

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 03:15 PM
OK, so no location. :rolleyes:Try "Lincoln Park"
Could have fooled me, especially given the way you and mudpup come after me on just about everything I post lately.Naww, it's just shtick with me, so don't take it too seriously.

Kiril
08-10-2008, 03:20 PM
Valve boxes doth not tell me squat, unless I missed something.

Nor do picture of controllers and silver bullets. :rolleyes:

Mike Leary
08-10-2008, 03:28 PM
Open wide......

Kiril
08-10-2008, 03:43 PM
Try "Lincoln Park"

And here you go, along with soil types for the entire county in second doc.

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 04:39 PM
And here you go, along with soil types for the entire county in second doc.There seems to be some problem with terminology here. Any soil I would connect the word 'sandy' with will have to be very permeable. Or, in practical terms, soil you could easily draw water from with a well point, water table permitting. Little of the soil I encounter is in the same league as California adobe, but the watering requirements are definitely from the 'clay soils' group. No question that some of the soils have some sandy 'feel' to them, but they behave more like clay, as far as watering needs go. And well points won't work in every shallow-water-table area that might have the word 'sandy' in its USDA description. As far as I'm concerned, any soil that won't drain can be described with the word clay, even if a government agency wants to describe it as 'silt loam' ~ I know it's a big deal whan it comes to agriculture, but for sending water to grass roots, I'm willing to dumb it way down.

Mike Leary
08-10-2008, 04:58 PM
for sending water to grass roots, I'm willing to dumb it way down.

Not too far, you'll spoil the children.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-10-2008, 07:16 PM
Oh brother.............East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet.

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 07:26 PM
Oh brother.............East is east and west is west and never the twain shall meet.Hey, I give this round to Margaret Dumont

Kiril
08-10-2008, 10:41 PM
There seems to be some problem with terminology here. Any soil I would connect the word 'sandy' with will have to be very permeable. Or, in practical terms, soil you could easily draw water from with a well point, water table permitting. Little of the soil I encounter is in the same league as California adobe, but the watering requirements are definitely from the 'clay soils' group. No question that some of the soils have some sandy 'feel' to them, but they behave more like clay, as far as watering needs go. And well points won't work in every shallow-water-table area that might have the word 'sandy' in its USDA description. As far as I'm concerned, any soil that won't drain can be described with the word clay, even if a government agency wants to describe it as 'silt loam' ~ I know it's a big deal whan it comes to agriculture, but for sending water to grass roots, I'm willing to dumb it way down.

Priceless. The world according to Boots and to hell with everyone else.

It is simply a matter of sand, silt, and clay percentages .
Call it what you want, however that doesn't make it right. Is that dumbed down enough for you?

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 10:57 PM
Hey, if water won't drain from it, I'll call it clay soil and be done with it, even if the USDA doesn't agree. I don't recall the watering guidelines including silty loam in their tables.

Congratulations on 4000 posts!Dumont wins again!

Mike Leary
08-10-2008, 11:00 PM
Priceless.

Congrats on 4K posts!

Kiril
08-10-2008, 11:11 PM
Hey, if water won't drain from it, I'll call it clay soil and be done with it, even if the USDA doesn't agree. I don't recall the watering guidelines including silty loam in their tables.

And I suppose if something is wet you call it water. Boots knows better than a well established science.

FYI, taxonomic classification of soils is generally accepted world wide.

http://www.fao.org/ag/agl/agll/wrb/default.stm

Kiril
08-10-2008, 11:12 PM
Congrats on 4K posts!

Oh my, another year at 24/7 thread hijacking and I might just catch up with Boots. :laugh:

Wet_Boots
08-10-2008, 11:27 PM
FYI, taxonomic classification of soils is generally accepted world wide.I'll just bet you made silty loam pies instead of mud pies when you were a kid :p

Mike Leary
08-10-2008, 11:38 PM
Oh my, another year at 24/7 thread hijacking and I might just catch up with Boots. :laugh:

Gotta get by purple, dirty & me first, bub.

AI Inc
08-11-2008, 06:22 AM
So Kirl, what can yo tell us about adding lava rock to that Cali clay soil?

hoskm01
08-11-2008, 08:06 AM
I'll just bet you made silty loam pies instead of mud pies when you were a kid :p
ROFL:):):)

Kiril
08-11-2008, 08:34 AM
So Kirl, what can yo tell us about adding lava rock to that Cali clay soil?

What size and for what purpose?

AI Inc
08-11-2008, 12:10 PM
I sold a system to a landscape art. from Concord mass last week . He does a lot of work in the Morgan Hill area of Cali and was telling me they have been adding lava rock to the clay soil to get it to hold water better. I had never heard of that before an was kinda hoping to get a little free education.

Kiril
08-11-2008, 12:58 PM
I sold a system to a landscape art. from Concord mass last week . He does a lot of work in the Morgan Hill area of Cali and was telling me they have been adding lava rock to the clay soil to get it to hold water better. I had never heard of that before an was kinda hoping to get a little free education.

Adding hort grade lava rock/perlite/course sand/ etc... will provide better infiltration/drainage/aeration/aggregation/porosity/etc..., however IMHO compost is the better amendment (in any soil) to increase your WHC, and it comes with a host of other beneficial properties.

If I were to use lava stone (which I wouldn't), it would be to help prevent a clay soil from staying in a state of saturation for extended periods following an irrigation/rain event.

Compost is hands down the best (and in most cases the only) soil amendment you need.

Compost does a soil good. :)

hoskm01
08-11-2008, 06:22 PM
Compost does a soil good. :)



mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 09:18 PM
"You can space em at 30 ft, you can use full circles if you do it the old school way, no more then 4 on a zone , keep nozzles the same as half circles and double your run time."

What do you mean I can use full circles if I do it the "old school way"? Also, are you suggestiong that I keep full circles on their own zone if I double the run time?

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 09:22 PM
"If pressure is at 52 psi, I would keep the spacing at 24'-27' max. 30' you would still have head-to-head, but not much breakdown of the water stream."


Ok,I will space them no more than 24" apart.

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 09:25 PM
"If pressure is at 52 psi, I would keep the spacing at 24'-27' max. 30' you would still have head-to-head, but not much breakdown of the water stream."


Ok,I will space them no more than 24" apart.24 inches is probably a tad too close.

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 09:26 PM
Of course, it still isn't known what backflow preventer will be used. An RPZ will complicate matters.


Backflow preventer is a 3'4" Watts. Attached is a pic. By the way property is flat as a pancake.

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 09:28 PM
24 inches is probably a tad too close.

Lol,I see you have not lost your sense of humor. I sent you a pm a few days ago,did you get it?

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 09:31 PM
use the pgp with the blue nozzels


OK, I will.





Captain,what do you mean by put in a 300?

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 09:33 PM
How about a booster, if there's no PR to adjust up?



You think I will need a booster pump.I know my pressure is not the highest,but,I do not think its that bad.:confused:

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 09:34 PM
It's a small property, and the odds are that it's heavier clay soil, so a guy can do just fine with head-to-head PGPs with small nozzles.


Correct,soil is clay here.

CAPT Stream Rotar
08-11-2008, 09:39 PM
OK, I will.





Captain,what do you mean by put in a 300?

http://www.irrigationtutorials.com/reviews/rotor/toro-stream-rotor.jpg

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 10:05 PM
Lol,I see you have not lost your sense of humor. I sent you a pm a few days ago,did you get it?I only answer PMs from Hot Russian Women. You should have decent zone pressure with a PVB, if you watch the flows. Red nozzles should give you a few more low-flow options. Blue nozzles were invented for those hapless installers who screw up and don't have enough pressure at the heads.

Try not to look at the stream rotor picture that Rotar posted. You can't have those. They need pressure.

ZX12R
08-11-2008, 10:19 PM
Ok Boots thanks,so,I guess its ok to mix and match blue and red nozzles as long as I do not go over my target flow number,right? I was going to keep my laterals at 1" poly. Will that help me a little,rather than using 3/4" laterals?

hoskm01
08-11-2008, 11:02 PM
You think I will need a booster pump.I know my pressure is not the highest,but,I do not think its that bad.:confused:
Need is a strong word. Want, maybe. You can make it work, but a pump might make it easier if it came down to it.

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 11:02 PM
I am underwhelmed with blue nozzles, because Hunter got the (red) nozzles right sometime in the last century. By now, it's a marketing game with people wanting the prettiest stream of water from a nozzle. If you do use head-to-head spacing, the nozzles won't matter.

Hunter won't mind if you use blues. They spray less distance, so you will buy more heads. Works out well for them.

Mike Leary
08-11-2008, 11:15 PM
If you do use head-to-head spacing, the nozzles won't matter.

Logic rules.

Wet_Boots
08-11-2008, 11:51 PM
I wish I had video of an old system with about 30 psi on the zone I saw. 4 or 5 Toro 602 flat-top gear-drives by a driveway, and no stream breakup at all, so the water leaves the round nozzle and lands about 20 to 30 feet from the head. Doughnut City, EXCEPT, the heads were spaced closer than head to head, and the overlaps evened out the coverage, with a bonus of allowing the heads to be about 5 feet from the drive (escaping snowplow damage) ~ looked weird, but was probably the most effective way to parcel out a limited amout of water and cover the strip of lawn.

ZX12R
08-14-2008, 09:54 PM
Well,tonight I walked my back yard (will figure front yard later)and figured that I need 12 heads for the lawn area. Based on your advice,I will use Hunter PGP's isntead of the I-20's.There will be 4 zones,head to head spacing no further than 24' apart.

I have two final questions.....I think.

1)Main line is 1 ". With my not so stellar pressure,will keeping the laterals at 1" help me out a little bit more,rather than going to 3/4" laterals?


2)I will be using 4 full circles in the back yard.Will it be ok to keep them on one zone as long as I am careful of my flows or is it better to split them up?

Mike Leary
08-14-2008, 10:05 PM
Keep the 1" going, you'll beat the friction loss lag. Split the zones, you'll have more control of application.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-14-2008, 10:33 PM
I really think you should give the Maxipawa tribe another look.

Mike Leary
08-14-2008, 10:35 PM
I really think you should give the Maxipawa tribe another look.

:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

ZX12R
08-14-2008, 10:40 PM
I really think you should give the Maxipawa tribe another look.


http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/rotors/2045a_maxipaw.htm


Those things are ugly.They remind me of the sprinklers that I used to move around my lawn.:cry:

ZX12R
08-14-2008, 10:40 PM
Keep the 1" going, you'll beat the friction loss lag. Split the zones, you'll have more control of application.


Thanks M ike,I will do that.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-14-2008, 10:42 PM
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/rotors/2045a_maxipaw.htm


Those things are ugly.They remind me of the sprinklers that I used to move around my lawn.:cry:

# Adjustable arm spring for low-pressure and low-gallonage operation.
# Energy efficient, low pressure and low-gallonage operation.

Read the specs. They are buried. great heads for your situation.

Mike Leary
08-14-2008, 10:46 PM
They are buried.

Good point.......:hammerhead::hammerhead:

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-14-2008, 10:58 PM
Good point.......:hammerhead::hammerhead:

I think I'll go to bed and be spared your wrath. Open a good bottle of wine and kick up your feet Mike.

Wet_Boots
08-14-2008, 11:39 PM
He doesn't need Maxipaws, not with heavy soil and PGPs on 24-foot spacing. Twelve heads could be done in three or four zones. PGP #5 (red) could do for a half, and a #2 for a corner head. You could wind up with zones running less than 6 gpm, and wind up using 3/4 poly for the entire system.

ZX12R
08-15-2008, 12:11 AM
Above,I said I was using 4 zones with 12 heads.I meant to say that it willbe 3 zones with 4 heads per zone. Wet,which red nozzle would you suggest for the full circles?

Wet_Boots
08-15-2008, 12:16 AM
How many full circles, halfs, quarters? You might need more zones.

ZX12R
08-15-2008, 12:28 AM
4 Full circles

4 corners

4 halves

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-15-2008, 05:01 AM
He doesn't need Maxipaws, not with heavy soil and PGPs on 24-foot spacing. Twelve heads could be done in three or four zones. PGP #5 (red) could do for a half, and a #2 for a corner head. You could wind up with zones running less than 6 gpm, and wind up using 3/4 poly for the entire system.

You don't know what the soil is there. Sandy or clay I've seen maxis work well in both situations. A PGP with underwhelming pressure is a really pathetic looking head with poor breakup. A maxi will give much better coverage in a poor pressure situation. Only problem will be if the turf is too tall around the head. Another head I'd consider but you'll have to start from scratch are RB rotators on 6" popups.

bicmudpuppy
08-15-2008, 07:25 AM
I'm not picturing the layout that needs 4 90's, 4 180's and 4 360's, BUT If it is possible to group 2 90's and 2 180's together, OR group all 4 90's in one zone, and split the 4 180's into 2 zones, then you could use the same nozzles on the 360's as the 180's and have 2 full circle zones.

If aprox. 25' is your target spacing, get small on the nozzles. This will help. It means much longer run times, but your only running 4 zones, so 2 hours per zone should not be a problem. A 1,3,6 nozzle set should work and leave you lots of room so you can keep the flow up. Your stated specs SHOULD allow the 3,5,8 nozzle set to work, I would hope that you would see close to 28-30' and get just over head to head coverage until the wind starts blowing. Did you look at the RB 5000? They're small nozzle set might be better. I always liked the CR500 from Irritrol which is easiest to get now as the Toro S800. I know they're small nozzle set would leave you smiling. The .5gpm nozzle will throw nearly 30' at less than 30#'s inlet pressure AND that head will still pop-up. Head doesn't fail to pop-up until the inlet pressure drops to 25#'s or a little less.
I used a lot of .75,1,2 nozzle sets in very low pressure areas and would drop down to the .5 instead of the .75 if I needed the pressure that extra bit was stealing. When 5gpm becomes a LOT of water, these things get fun.

Wet_Boots
08-15-2008, 08:17 AM
Correct,soil is clay here.I'd say heavy soil. And it sounds like the yard is small enough for bite-size zones. Certainly more than three. Maybe two full-circles zoned together, and the rest grouped however.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-15-2008, 08:26 AM
I'd say heavy soil. And it sounds like the yard is small enough for bite-size zones. Certainly more than three. Maybe two full-circles zoned together, and the rest grouped however.

I stand corrected but why are you opposed to maxis in clay? Buckets don't drain? Plenty of old maxis in our clay that seem fine to me.

Wet_Boots
08-15-2008, 08:33 AM
Not opposed to Maxipaws. I think they're underappreciated, but I'd still give the reliability nod to a PGP in most applications. I don't think the OP will have much trouble zoning out the system for operation at 30+ psi.

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-15-2008, 08:59 AM
I have never used below 4 on a PGP tree. I just think that tiny 1,2,3 stream is a joke. You'd have to run them longer than MPs.

Wet_Boots
08-15-2008, 09:13 AM
They're fine for corners with head-to-head spacing. You'd really need a compelling reason to use #1 nozzles, though.

DanaMac
08-15-2008, 09:28 AM
I have never used below 4 on a PGP tree. I just think that tiny 1,2,3 stream is a joke. You'd have to run them longer than MPs.

We have one property that we took over last year, and my tech was called out there a few weeks ago. somehow the flow/volume has been drastically changed. older house, and I suspect it is the PRV, but it could be tree root choking supply to house. For a temp fix my tech changed all nozzles to #1-#3 just to get heads working. Also had to kick the run times up by 2-3 times normal. Spray is ok but definitely not great.

Kiril
08-15-2008, 10:02 AM
I'd say heavy soil. And it sounds like the yard is small enough for bite-size zones. Certainly more than three. Maybe two full-circles zoned together, and the rest grouped however.

Sigh ......... Guess someone trucked in a bunch of clay in that county. If only you people knew what a heavy clay was like.

Tom Tom
08-15-2008, 10:06 AM
. If only you people knew what a heavy clay was like.


enlighten us Obi-wan

Kiril
08-15-2008, 10:14 AM
enlighten us Obi-wan

A heavy shrink-swell clay just as it beings to dry out.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107431&d=1209391814

On a soil like this, you start to see runoff inside of 5-10 minutes with a typical spray setup.
This particular soil (pic) has around 55% clay content.

Wet_Boots
08-15-2008, 10:25 AM
Yeah, but Jersey isn't likely to dry out enough for that to show up. There is genuine clay there, and I mean even badass blue clay, but luckily for homeowners, they usually have something better for a top layer.

The following quote is from this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/23/dining/23toma.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2).

"Since 2001, Mr. Rabin has been the head of the Rutgers tomato project, responsible for identifying tomatoes that farmers can grow successfully and consistently. It is an awesome charge in a state where “Jersey tomato” is as prideful a phrase as “Jersey girl.” It is even more so this year, as Mr. Rabin helps to bring back to market a lost variety that was once virtually the definition of the Jersey tomato.

But what’s so special about the Jersey tomato?

“It can’t be the soil, because we’ve got sandy soil in the south of the state, and more clay and loam in the north,” said Pete Nitzsche, a Rutgers agent in Morris County. “What we’ve got here is a memory of how tomatoes used to taste.”

That memory is so powerful that when the seeds of a favorite tomato, the Ramapo, became unavailable in the late 1980s, the state’s gardeners began a letter-writing campaign, demanding that Rutgers bring it back."

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-15-2008, 10:31 AM
We have clay but Kiril where did you get that map for Lincoln Park/ Could you get one for Dallas & Tarrant county? I'd like to see what they classify us as. We are meant to be part of the great blacklands.

Kiril
08-15-2008, 10:46 AM
We have clay but Kiril where did you get that map for Lincoln Park/ Could you get one for Dallas & Tarrant county? I'd like to see what they classify us as. We are meant to be part of the great blacklands.

Attached soils and chemical properties. Do you actually want a map?

FIMCO-MEISTER
08-15-2008, 10:54 AM
Attached soils and chemical properties. Do you actually want a map?

Map would be great. I want to see how they split it up. What search words or site are you using specifically?

Kiril
08-15-2008, 11:06 AM
Map would be great. I want to see how they split it up. What search words or site are you using specifically?

http://soildatamart.nrcs.usda.gov/State.aspx

http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/WebSoilSurvey.aspx

You can generate a map using the second link, or you can get a shape file from the first.

Attached a couple more files that may be of interest.

Kiril
08-15-2008, 11:41 AM
Hey Fimco, here is more info on some soils listed as being in the Blacklands.

Branyon clay (http://www2.ftw.nrcs.usda.gov/osd/dat/B/BRANYON.html)

Houston Black (http://ortho.ftw.nrcs.usda.gov/osd/dat/H/HOUSTON_BLACK.html)

Wet_Boots
08-15-2008, 11:55 AM
Hey Fimco, here is more info on some soils listed as being in the Blacklands.

Branyon clay (http://www2.ftw.nrcs.usda.gov/osd/dat/B/BRANYON.html)

Houston Black (http://ortho.ftw.nrcs.usda.gov/osd/dat/H/HOUSTON_BLACK.html)Sounds like two characters from a western - Branyon Clay and Houston Blackie.

ZX12R
08-20-2008, 11:47 PM
"I'm not picturing the layout that needs 4 90's, 4 180's and 4 360's, BUT If it is possible to group 2 90's and 2 180's together, OR group all 4 90's in one zone, and split the 4 180's into 2 zones, then you could use the same nozzles on the 360's as the 180's and have 2 full circle zones.

If aprox. 25' is your target spacing, get small on the nozzles. This will help. It means much longer run times, but your only running 4 zones, so 2 hours per zone should not be a problem. A 1,3,6 nozzle set should work and leave you lots of room so you can keep the flow up. Your stated specs SHOULD allow the 3,5,8 nozzle set to work, I would hope that you would see close to 28-30' and get just over head to head coverage until the wind starts blowing. Did you look at the RB 5000? They're small nozzle set might be better. I always liked the CR500 from Irritrol which is easiest to get now as the Toro S800. I know they're small nozzle set would leave you smiling. The .5gpm nozzle will throw nearly 30' at less than 30#'s inlet pressure AND that head will still pop-up. Head doesn't fail to pop-up until the inlet pressure drops to 25#'s or a little less.
I used a lot of .75,1,2 nozzle sets in very low pressure areas and would drop down to the .5 instead of the .75 if I needed the pressure that extra bit was stealing. When 5gpm becomes a LOT of water, these things get fun."

Thank you mudpuppy for your detailed response! I am not crazy abut the thought of running each zone for 2 hours.If I HAD to do that,I think I would split the times up rather than running a zone for 2 straight hours. Most of the lawn is part sun,so,I think that will reduce the amount of water needed for a really nice lawn.Also,the 4 full circles are in the middle of the lawn and their spacing is 20' apart as opposed to the others which are 24' apart.

Yes,I considered the RB 5000 Plus,however,more people here favored the PGP,so,I followed on that advice.

I am still going to try and run 3 zones at 4 heads per zone. I may actually take a 1" poly line ,hook up 4 heads with certain nozzles,lay it on the lawn to mimic an entire run,turn the water on and see what happens.

I am also going to call the water company up soon to see if they will change my meter to 3/4" from the 5/8" that I currently have.That should all but guarantee that I will be fine....I hope.:dizzy:

Waterit
08-21-2008, 12:01 AM
[QUOTE=ZX12R;2475917I am also going to call the water company up soon to see if they will change my meter to 3/4" from the 5/8" that I currently have.That should all but guarantee that I will be fine....I hope.:dizzy:[/QUOTE]

Not a whole lot of difference between 5/8 + 3/4 - see how much a 1" is, if within reason go for it. You'll love the difference.

ZX12R
08-21-2008, 12:12 AM
"Not a whole lot of difference between 5/8 + 3/4 - see how much a 1" is, if within reason go for it. You'll love the difference."


I agree its not a lot,but it would be more than I have.The line coming into my current meter is 3/4".

In reference to a 1" meter in my town,I heard that the water company here charges you a significant amount of money each month just to have it. Of course this is hearsay,but,I will be sure to ask the water company when I call.What are your thoughts on running a seperate meter for the irrigation?

Waterit
08-21-2008, 12:25 AM
"Not a whole lot of difference between 5/8 + 3/4 - see how much a 1" is, if within reason go for it. You'll love the difference."


I agree its not a lot,but it would be more than I have.The line coming into my current meter is 3/4".

In reference to a 1" meter in my town,I heard that the water company here charges you a significant amount of money each month just to have it. Of course this is hearsay,but,I will be sure to ask the water company when I call.What are your thoughts on running a seperate meter for the irrigation?

All good, especially if separate meter had no sewer charge attached to it. Don't know how your area is set up, here you pay a gallon of sewer for each gal of water. So heavy watering=heavy bill. With separate meter you only pay for the water, which in most areas is still one of the best bargains around. As for the significant amount of money each month, there could be a minimum monthly charge. Worth checking into, though, if there is any savings to be realized that separate meter could quickly pay for itself.

ZX12R
08-21-2008, 09:20 PM
"All good, especially if separate meter had no sewer charge attached to it."


I beleive that would be the situation for me,but,I will surley look into it. Right now,all water running thru meter has that sewer charge.

I could kick myself.Last year the water company called us and asked if we were away? We were not away.Our water meter stopped working,so,they came out and replaced it. If I had irrigation thoughts on my mind,I would have told them to put a larger meter on.:hammerhead: Oh well,live and learn.

Wet_Boots
08-21-2008, 10:46 PM
You got a small yard, and you can live with a small meter. This isn't a race to get the watering done in a minimum time. You got hours to cover the lawn.

ZX12R
08-21-2008, 11:08 PM
Dam Boots,you are always talking me out of bigger things.:rolleyes:

OK,next week,I am going to get 4 PGP's,run a temporary 1" poly line from the POC with 4 heads attached to mimic a zone.It's killing me as to how it will perform with my pressure and flow.I will let you know what happens.