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Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 10:54 PM
Well, I am looking for some ideas. Take a look at the pictures, you can also see my original plan from way back when. Some things have changed, no beam right in front of hearth for up and downlighting and they didn't like the chandeliers. Beams are all 8"X16". I have four 12's up the center of the posts at two locations with 1.5" wire-ways milled through the centers of the posts. I have conduits going from below grade to the center of the posts.

Here is the kicker guys, Everybody involved would like to see recessed fixtures in the beams. I have already told them that we would be trying some type of mini-floods up and down lighting the fireplace from the first beam, but I would research the recessed possibilities. As always if I use your idea and or fixture I will send you some cash? $100.00

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 10:59 PM
More Pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PeteScalvo
08-08-2008, 11:03 PM
down lights over and in front of each corner post with frosted lenses. two spots to graze the fireplace below the mantle and 2 to graze above the mantle. 4 more to uplight and downlight the sides of the fireplace. Those 12" beams make it easy to hide fixtures. and 1 spot directly over the table. shouldn't need more than 20 watters If you have a budget then get 2 or 3 underwaters in that pond 35 watters each preferably

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:07 PM
Pics of past work

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:10 PM
The Plan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

PeteScalvo
08-08-2008, 11:10 PM
your gonna need mostly directionals on this one.

PeteScalvo
08-08-2008, 11:13 PM
just wondering why you light straight down on everything. I find it more interesting to hit em from different unusual angles avoiding glare of course

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:19 PM
down lights over and in front of each corner post with frosted lenses.

Must be recessed any ideas on fixtures?

two spots to graze the fireplace below the mantle and 2 to graze above the mantle.

No uplights ingrade due to glare issues. No beams can be added to graze the fireplace, must be done from current beam. See pic #1413

4 more to uplight and downlight the sides of the fireplace. Those 12" beams make it easy to hide fixtures. and 1 spot directly over the table. shouldn't need more than 20 watters If you have a budget then get 2 or 3 underwaters in that pond 35 watters each preferably

Side of the chimney are a go, six down lights for furniture thats being made. (Must be recessed remember) I already have Pentair Leds in the SPA.

Thanks

Chris J
08-08-2008, 11:21 PM
Eddie, I know you have more ideas about this kind of project than I do, so I'll just throw out a general idea "thinking out loud".
Could you core drill holes for recessed lighting (not all the way through the beams) and somehow create a mechanisiim to fix the luminares in place? A small hole the rest of the way to come out on the top, and make all your connections out of sight?
For the fire-place, have you looked at the top of it? Most of these fire pits have big voids right down the middle. You could easily uplight (from the mantle, recessed into the mantle) to up/down light the chimney area.. Again, thinking out loud in the moment. I'll reply again when I have a revelation. You are the man when it comes to this kind of retro fitting stuff, so I won't push much. Mucho Respecto Amigo!

PeteScalvo
08-08-2008, 11:27 PM
The uplights would be attached above the beams. I'd be afraid of installing anything inset in the wood beams. Too much potential for scorching of wood or problems if a short occurs inside the beam with the thin fixture wire. maybe someone might drive a nail though it who knows later on

ccfree
08-08-2008, 11:32 PM
take a look at the FX FC-20 with the brass ring. I know this is designed as a well light, but I don't see why it wouldn't possibly work for your recessed application. Check it out at FXL.com. Just an idea.

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:34 PM
Here is another job just like the original plan for this home and the installed day pics. The issue is there is no beam in front of the fireplace for several feet and again except for that area fixtures need to be stealth??????????????????? I have a idea I am going to mock on the fireplace idea, but i was looking for other ideas in case it is a Bomb.

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:40 PM
Eddie, I know you have more ideas about this kind of project than I do, so I'll just throw out a general idea "thinking out loud".
Could you core drill holes for recessed lighting (not all the way through the beams) and somehow create a mechanisiim to fix the luminares in place? A small hole the rest of the way to come out on the top, and make all your connections out of sight?

Thanks for the comments, this is what I want to do. Any ideas on the fixtures? rated for in wood? I will be looking some over the weekend.

For the fire-place, have you looked at the top of it? Most of these fire pits have big voids right down the middle. You could easily uplight (from the mantle, recessed into the mantle) to up/down light the chimney area.. Again, thinking out loud in the moment. I'll reply again when I have a revelation. You are the man when it comes to this kind of retro fitting stuff, so I won't push much. Mucho Respecto Amigo!

This is the hard part. Keep the ideas coming

Thanks again

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:46 PM
Here is the area that I am really stumped on.

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:48 PM
Cash only goes to real lighting pros, sorry.

PeteScalvo
08-08-2008, 11:49 PM
Your design is being dictated by the location of the beams for recess. It's impossible that they would all be in the right place unless designed and built that way

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:51 PM
take a look at the FX FC-20 with the brass ring. I know this is designed as a well light, but I don't see why it wouldn't possibly work for your recessed application. Check it out at FXL.com. Just an idea.

I took this client to see some properties and he crossed out my ingrades in front of the wood storage boxes early in the project.

Thanks for the ideas.

Chris J
08-08-2008, 11:53 PM
Again, check the void in the fire place. If there's a space to come up into, then your ideas are endless because you can then run your wires on top of the beams.

PeteScalvo
08-08-2008, 11:57 PM
anything mounted to or in set in the fireplace is going to create hot lighting. It can be very tempting but I think you should stay outta that hole if there is one already up in there

Eden Lights
08-08-2008, 11:58 PM
Your design is being dictated by the location of the beams for recess. It's impossible that they would all be in the right place unless designed and built that way


We have the green light on the area in post #14 to do what ever we like, it doesn't have to be recessed. I really didn't understand your posts #6 and #7. Sorry

Eden Lights
08-09-2008, 12:00 AM
Again, check the void in the fire place. If there's a space to come up into, then your ideas are endless because you can then run your wires on top of the beams.

We already have 4 12's up two of the posts to the top.

PeteScalvo
08-09-2008, 12:02 AM
what I meant was that you can adjust lighting where you need it after installation. Using staionery fixtures are a hassle if the customer needs adjustability

ccfree
08-09-2008, 12:08 AM
I took this client to see some properties and he crossed out my ingrades in front of the wood storage boxes early in the project.

Thanks for the ideas.

But you are looking for a light to recess under the 8x16's right?

Eden Lights
08-09-2008, 12:18 AM
But you are looking for a light to recess under the 8x16's right?

In the beams, not under them. If you meant in the underside of the beams? I am going back to check then out right now.

Thanks

Eden Lights
08-09-2008, 12:22 AM
take a look at the FX FC-20 with the brass ring. I know this is designed as a well light, but I don't see why it wouldn't possibly work for your recessed application. Check it out at FXL.com. Just an idea.

I just ordered one to check out. If the Unique Nova works for this maybe one of you guys can be the middle man for me and get me some.:)

Chris J
08-09-2008, 12:31 AM
I'll be the man for that one. I got good pricing on Uneek, you her me?

TXNSLighting
08-09-2008, 03:56 PM
Here is another job just like the original plan for this home and the installed day pics. The issue is there is no beam in front of the fireplace for several feet and again except for that area fixtures need to be stealth??????????????????? I have a idea I am going to mock on the fireplace idea, but i was looking for other ideas in case it is a Bomb.

now that is just plain gorgeous!!!

Lite4
08-09-2008, 09:21 PM
now that is just plain gorgeous!!!

I'll second that!

Lite4
08-09-2008, 09:40 PM
Eddie,
do you know someone with a large forstner bit to hollow out the cored holes in the beams? As I was looking at your photos I was thinking something in LED because of the direct heat with halogens being snuggled up in those beams, but you would have to mismatches in color though. The beam on the mantle would be an ideal place to core and flush mount some lights both above and below the beam to graze the fireplace, but how in the world would you get wiring to them? After seeing the photo of the completed job you did at the other residence I would probably mimick that as closely as possible if they let you. The lighting you did there literally has to be one of the very best compositions I have ever seen and I can't imagine anyone not wanting to have that in their back yard. It truly is stunning. I will ruminate on it some more and see what I can throw in to the mix. You said you had the area specifically over the fireplace figuired out. Were you just mainly looking for an ingrade conversion for the beams. Most MR 16 based well lights are fixed into a single focal position. Does it need to be adjustable? Vista has some that have a 25 degree range of deflection on the lamp base.

Mark B
08-09-2008, 10:26 PM
That is a great work. That is awesome.
Tim If I understand, you are talking about driling out the top of the mantle to make the fixture flush. To bad Eddie didn't have a chance to run the wire in the cinder block (I would think they were hollow) before the rock face was installed. But the other question would how would you seal the mantle from the water. Unless you made a drain hole.

What about some really high up downlighting? Along with the lights that you are doing.

Eden Lights
08-10-2008, 12:40 AM
I did a mock up with mr's from the mantle and the setback just wasn't far enough for acceptable illumination. So I think that is out.

Recessed in the beams from the main columns and the center area is great, if we can get a small package that is rated for this type of install? Any ideas that we haven't discussed?????? (Fixtures)

Eden Lights
08-10-2008, 12:51 AM
Here is the area that I am really stumped on.

See post #14, My idea is to use a small bin-pin mini flood style fixture since the beam is set so far back. Several of them: some pointing up, some pointing at the mantle, and some pointing down. MR's just dont look good with such a far setback, there are pointing almost straight for the mantle with small angles when aiming up and down the fireplace. I am going to try some BK Saratogas and a couple of HK ZXF50's I have at the first of the week.

Thanks for all the comments and ideas.

Eden Lights
08-10-2008, 12:52 AM
Keep them cominig!

Mark B
08-10-2008, 02:17 AM
Sounds like you are on the right track. So what about the down lighting in the trees? Are they close enough that you can use them?

klkanders
08-10-2008, 02:39 AM
See post #14, My idea is to use a small bin-pin mini flood style fixture since the beam is set so far back. Several of them: some pointing up, some pointing at the mantle, and some pointing down.

Like the Unique Stellar for instance? Give it a look.
I like what you are thinking so far. Very nice project!

Keith

The Lighting Geek
08-10-2008, 02:53 AM
Nice challenging job, I love these.

JoeyD
08-11-2008, 01:26 PM
The stellar would work really well for the fire place for sure. You can knock the knuckle off if need be and flush mount it if need be to the lips of the fireplace. Just another option. Teh Nova would work great for recessing. If using going down then you will have to either use the wire to hold the light from falling or use some sort of a fabbed bracket. The comet may be another option to flush mount. It will give you a nice smooth look coming out of the beam to downlight the posts/columns. I will look for some pictures...........And Eddie, I can dial you in with a good distributor that can drop ship to you so you dont have to go through a middle man.

Heres an example of the Comet..
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/ApplicationShots015.jpg

Heres a Stellar with the knuckle knocked off and flush mounted....
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/StellarFlush.jpg

I will look for more pics..I know I have some of a fireplace we lit up during a UU that Chris J attended.

Lite4
08-14-2008, 03:03 PM
Eddie,
For the recessed fixtures, are you going to have to fab something for them? You will probably have to leave most of the wood cavity hollowed out behind the fixture as a sort of heat sink won't you? I guess I would be most concerned with dispersing the heat away from the outside of the fixture that is in direct contact with the wood beams. I had thought about large strand fiber but that probably won't give you enough lumen output and the lower heat LEDs won't match the color of your halos. whichever fixture you choose, I guess you could epoxy some sort of small spacer to the outside of the fixture housing so there is even at least a 1/16th inch space between the fixture and the surrounding wood. All I can say is it is going to be a bugger for sure. How come we can never get to put our lights in before they are put up and stained? Oh well, a challenge is good.

Eden Lights
08-14-2008, 09:27 PM
All recessed will be Winona Winscape Yumas w/AR 20W GBF lamps. They are rated for combustible materials with this lamp. Fireplace is a combination of BK Saratogas with various inserts and HK ZX11's behind the 1st beam in front of the fireplace, some are uplights and some are downlights. HK ZX16's uplighting on the sides of the fireplace chimney from behind beam. Install will be in mid Sept. so I will try to get some pics. Three transformers for multiple scenes with UPB dimmers.

Lite4
08-14-2008, 10:35 PM
That fixture looks identical to the fixture I was going to suggest. The Vision 3- WM11. That should look nice and clean in those beams.

HydroTerra
12-13-2010, 10:59 AM
VERY nice work!!!! I Love the recessed look!!! A+++