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View Full Version : First time, critique appreciated. *PICS


viet_jon
08-09-2008, 09:31 PM
All Permacon products

Celtik Wall
Celtik Steps
Bergerac Pavers


Took us about a week to get this far. Tomorrow if it doesn't rain, we're renting a concrete saw with diamond blade to cut pavers. Once all pavers are in, we'll compact.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07625.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07624.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07623.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07622.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07620.jpg
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07619.jpg






Any suggestions on how to do the stairs? We are planning to place the stairs on the long side of the smaller deck.

Then once that is done, we're putting 5 pillars on the large deck, and three on the small. Haven't decided on the fencing from pillar to pillar yet, any suggestions? I don't like normal steel bar fencing, rather I'm looking to add those wood privacy type of panels ( What are those things called? ), but don't know where to buy them.

Then we're doing the same pavers as a walkway from the front of the house leading to the stairs. Then steel fencing around our property.


Again, any suggestions\comments\criticism is appreciated. I know the job isn't perfect, but the only way I learn is by making mistakes.

Cheers!!!

viet_jon
08-09-2008, 09:35 PM
Discovered two major flaws last night:

1) the large deck isn't a perfect square! :wall..... The width along the house is smaller than the other width by 2.5 inches


2) we messed up the screeding of the small deck. With the pavers in, the middle is a little bit raised compared to the edges to the wall.

scenicexcellence
08-09-2008, 09:37 PM
It looks good One thing i would suggest is to have the paver a bit higher then they are because once you compact they will settle down and be below the top of the cap.

Think you should use some sort of natural stone for steps. Or rosetta stone precast natural look.

Also did you glue all those caps? if not you might want to do that because of people standing there will knock them off.

Looks great though.

viet_jon
08-09-2008, 09:53 PM
It looks good One thing i would suggest is to have the paver a bit higher then they are because once you compact they will settle down and be below the top of the cap.

Think you should use some sort of natural stone for steps. Or rosetta stone precast natural look.

Also did you glue all those caps? if not you might want to do that because of people standing there will knock them off.

Looks great though.

yup, caps glued already.

We bought the stones for the steps already...... I was looking more for suggestions on how to lay them, things I should watch out or/be aware of etc.


Possibly pictures don't do the justice?
We're installing primarily using the Permacon install manual, and it says; 1 inch of screening will compact 3/8 an inch....and that's the height of the pavers we have sitting over the caps... Will it compact more?

Liquidfast
08-09-2008, 09:53 PM
Discovered two major flaws last night:

1) the large deck isn't a perfect square! :wall..... The width along the house is smaller than the other width by 2.5 inches


2) we messed up the screeding of the small deck. With the pavers in, the middle is a little bit raised compared to the edges to the wall.



With your comment and by the looks of the homes, you may be close to me. Y rent a saw when I have one for sale??? CHEAP and only used 3 times...... PM me if you can.

I am in Thornhill

CALandscapes
08-09-2008, 09:54 PM
I'm far from a seasoned hardscaper but I'll still chime in:

Wouldn't it be easier (not to mention look better) to make those cuts w/a wet saw w/diamond blade than an AP saw?

JimmyStew
08-09-2008, 10:03 PM
Not to familiar with the Belgard pavers but, I don't think you should have to make any field cuts if you lay your "random" pattern correctly. Not a major deal, but something to consider for next time.

zedosix
08-10-2008, 10:59 AM
I would of....

Built the columns at the same time as the patio, and had them integrate rather than having them sit on top of the patio.
Watch your bond lines, some look a bit long and should be broken up and also looks like you may want to run a string and make sure they are straight.
Should always have brick starting from the same place even with a raised patio those lines should match. (I think you tried to do that)
With mega bergerac you may have to remove the edge pieces because there is only 3/8" of screed between bottom of brick and celtik block, it may not compact flush. Those half pieces are a pita, the more you have the harder it will always be to keep lines running straight. I don't bother with them anymore, we just lay the brick and make it work with out the half stones.
Building a step would be easy to do after, just decide where you want it to go and start from ground up obviously. Would a semicircular step work with your plan. I wouldn't do the whole lenght just a section in the middle and maybe have the railing come up to the edges.
I can't tell which way your slope is running but typically I would crown the middle of the patios and have the water run off in all directions, except towards the house.

Looks good if its your first project.

PerfiCut L&L
08-10-2008, 08:17 PM
Aside from whats been mentioned, the only thing that jumps out to me is a lot of 2x2 cuts for a random pattern. I think if you played with the configurationa little you could minimize those small pieces.


You'll definately want to do something with the low spot near the house. Pull them up and add some more sand if need be. Otherwise you'll have standing water and regrets.

Otherwise looks prety good from this angle.

viet_jon
08-10-2008, 09:28 PM
Liquidfast:
thankx for the offer, but it'll probably be more easier if we just rented.

CALandscapes
That's what we're planning to get, a wet saw with diamond blade.


JImmystew:
We should have layed out a better plan, I agree. Even the Celtik walls, if we had planned the deck by 2 foot increments, it would have saved us time cutting blocks.

Zeo:
Tried our best to keep paver lines straight, but tis was impossible because we screwed up the wall caps; they don't line up 100% straight, therefore throwing off the pavers.
What (if there are any), long term repurcussions if the lines don't run straight, weaken interlock?
The slope of the pavers on the small deck is actually higher towards the house, so I should be good with water buildup.

Perficut:
Will keep that in mind for the walkway pavers, thankx.

viet_jon
08-10-2008, 09:34 PM
Close up of paver height

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07634.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07635.jpg



A few more shots with nice weather

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07628.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07633.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07638-1.jpg

viet_jon
08-10-2008, 09:40 PM
question:



Permacon does not sell corner pieces for the walls: how the heck do you chisel them to get the finish look? If you look at the last picture above, the large corner piece is flat on one side. We've tried a wood chisel, and a cement chisel, but it doesn't give a nice finish.

zedosix
08-10-2008, 10:26 PM
question:



Permacon does not sell corner pieces for the walls: how the heck do you chisel them to get the finish look? If you look at the last picture above, the large corner piece is flat on one side. We've tried a wood chisel, and a cement chisel, but it doesn't give a nice finish.

You've used the mega-celtik as you are aware they are a hollow block. Just curious why you didn't use the 135mm module all the way thru. To rough up the ends you could use a 2lb sledge and use a side striking motion to rough it up a bit. Or plant a shrub there.:)

viet_jon
08-10-2008, 11:16 PM
You've used the mega-celtik as you are aware they are a hollow block. Just curious why you didn't use the 135mm module all the way thru. To rough up the ends you could use a 2lb sledge and use a side striking motion to rough it up a bit. Or plant a shrub there.:)


We opted to use all three modules because it matches the stone on our house, which has three similar sizes.


k, gonna grab a small sledge tomorrow..... if it doesn't look right, we'll just plant a shrub. :laugh:


and those plastic pins, won't they disintegrate after say 10 years? Seams kind of flimsy to me.

PlatinumLandCon
08-11-2008, 12:19 AM
You really need to plan ahead like chess with your layout.

Where are you located?

viet_jon
08-11-2008, 12:38 AM
You really need to plan ahead like chess with your layout.

Where are you located?

Hamilton....


We knew almost nothing about hardscaping attempting this. When the stones came, we didn't even know how to stack them. We scoured the internet, printed out some documentation, and worked from there.

So far so good....


except, I'm a little concerned after reading the 'tamping bed' thread. I think I might have the wrong sand/concrete dust. I'm gonna post a picture tomorrow.

PatriotLandscape
08-11-2008, 05:15 PM
Looks nice. There are a few things to improve with the next project.

1. Get better at the random patterns they can be installed without all those 4x4's

2. Add a soldier course around the patio

3. The drop off around the patio seems very high and maybe out of code. Which would require a railing.

SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES
08-13-2008, 01:04 AM
the only thing to add that looks funny to me is the pitch looks a little strong. it looks like it is a little too steep. could be the photos though.

PlatinumLandCon
08-13-2008, 07:57 AM
Hamilton....


We knew almost nothing about hardscaping attempting this. When the stones came, we didn't even know how to stack them. We scoured the internet, printed out some documentation, and worked from there.

So far so good....


except, I'm a little concerned after reading the 'tamping bed' thread. I think I might have the wrong sand/concrete dust. I'm gonna post a picture tomorrow.

Thats one hell of a project to start with!

viet_jon
08-13-2008, 10:06 PM
Looks nice. There are a few things to improve with the next project.

1. Get better at the random patterns they can be installed without all those 4x4's

2. Add a soldier course around the patio

3. The drop off around the patio seems very high and maybe out of code. Which would require a railing.



yup, railing going on once we put together the pillars.
What do you mean a soldier course though?





SOUTHERNGREENSCAPES:

it is a little high...we're contemplating wether not to take it off and redo it.



muclecarboy:

tell me about it....!!!....lol


In the original post I forgot to mention the pond were suppose to build also. Summers almost over, not sure if we'll have time.

viet_jon
08-13-2008, 10:12 PM
Update:


Wet saw with diamond blade

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07822.jpg



All pavers cut and into place

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07825.jpg

Short on Celtik Caps, we need about 7 more pieces to complete benches around two windows.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07826.jpg

Couple night time shots

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07845.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07846.jpg

viet_jon
08-13-2008, 10:16 PM
Walkway leading from fencing gate to deck & picture of half finished steps.


Question: What is the standard compacted gravel foundation for a walkway? 1 Feet correct?



http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07839.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07841.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07842.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z15/angelina_09_daisy/DSC07844.jpg

scenicexcellence
08-13-2008, 10:34 PM
that is looking good. keep up the work and you could do the neighbours and charge enough to cover the cost of this one.

shethinksmytractors_sexy
08-17-2008, 01:22 PM
i have one question. i am building a patio very similar to this one in the next couple weeks. did you put all gravel for backfill or did you use fill dirt in the middle and gravel also??? thanks.

Paver Gangster
08-19-2008, 01:13 AM
I have to counter one comment here. When installing random modular patterns I actually prefer to leave the little squares open and cut them in later, I think its a big time saver as opposed to sitting there and trying to get the pattern perfect with no little squares. It also gives the added benefit of making a three piece random modular system into a four size pattern, all with the simple cut of a chop saw.

One nitpick---- too many long bond lines, and four corners where the pieces touch. Not a big deal on a patio, however, but take care to try and avoid this on a driveway for future reference.

Not crazy about leaving gaps in the paver surface open for the rain to come in and saturate your setting bed, was this not avoidable.

Overall, however, a nice looking project with some really nice looking product.

PatriotLandscape
08-19-2008, 06:06 PM
I have to counter one comment here. When installing random modular patterns I actually prefer to leave the little squares open and cut them in later, I think its a big time saver as opposed to sitting there and trying to get the pattern perfect with no little squares. It also gives the added benefit of making a three piece random modular system into a four size pattern, all with the simple cut of a chop saw.

To me those 5 bricks in the patio jump out and it doesn't take much effort to just make it work the way it was designed.

Random patterns are a PITA but if your going to do it then do it right.

the ones he has to cut for that patio will not match the rounded edges or look nearly as good as a full paver. the time cutting that could also be more than the time spent using the modular system.

zedosix
08-19-2008, 06:10 PM
and those plastic pins, won't they disintegrate after say 10 years? Seams kind of flimsy to me.


Its plastic, it will be there after the block decays.:)

Paver Gangster
08-26-2008, 02:44 AM
To me those 5 bricks in the patio jump out and it doesn't take much effort to just make it work the way it was designed.

Random patterns are a PITA but if your going to do it then do it right.

the ones he has to cut for that patio will not match the rounded edges or look nearly as good as a full paver. the time cutting that could also be more than the time spent using the modular system.

We have an honest difference of opinion here I think. I agree on the mega pavers you have that issue with the roundness, I just take a brick hammer and chip off the cut edge to make it look more natural. Really little time at all. On dublins, if your guy can cut straight, no noticable difference when its sanded.

If you check out the Belgard technical guide, they have the Mega and Dublins with 3x3 and 4.5x4.5 squares cut in their sample patterns, which tells me this really was the way the system was intended, throw in the pavers, quickly, then cut in later. You also get more broken up joints and a better interlocking pattern that way.

Of course, IF that is what the customer wants, and I respect a contractor who can throw in a 3 piece system quickly without cuts. :D

viet_jon
08-26-2008, 03:35 PM
I have to agree with Paver Gangster.

It's not really noticeable at all...I actually think it looks better.


I'll post some update pics soon...

Mike33
08-26-2008, 11:22 PM
I had the same replies from my first paver job. 2 many lines, slivers, and 4 corners. But take the advise, i did and wont make same mistake twice. However it was for my self so i didnt have to worry weather or not i would get paid. My mistakes was cosmetic but i assure you the prep. exceeded ICPI. Good luck to you on future jobs.
Mike