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worx
08-10-2008, 09:31 PM
What is the best way in multi trans. installs to have all lights come on together? Could this put too much load on the breaker?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-10-2008, 10:20 PM
It is pretty rare that in a multiple transformer installation that any two transformers would be powered by the same circuit. Usually the LV transformers are located such that they tap into different 120V circuits.

However, if this is not the case, and you are loading up multiple LV transformers onto a single 120V circuit, then you have to be congnizant of the max amp load of the transformers you are using and ensure that you do not exceed the rating of the breaker that is protecting the 120V circuit. Remember that you should not load more then 12 Amps onto a 15 Amp Breaker.

There are a multitude of ways to control and synchronize multiple transformers. It all depends on the layout, the circuitry and the budget.

Have a great day.

The Lighting Geek
08-10-2008, 10:53 PM
What is the best way in multi trans. installs to have all lights come on together? Could this put too much load on the breaker?

The NEC says you can only use 80% of the capacity of any device or in this case a breaker. You need to calculate the loads accordingly and use more circuits if necessary. You can get all the transformers to come on together regardless of how many circuits by using Unique's Sequencers. Basically you use one transformers as a controlling unit and the rest become slaves. There is no limit to how many transformers that can be controlled. The Sequencer plugs into the transformer just like a timer but is activated by 12 volts from another transformer.

Pro-Scapes
08-11-2008, 12:18 AM
sequencers can come in real handy sometimes but depending on a layout they can become alot of extra work.

We tend to use a upb device in each trans with a central timer located inside the dwelling or garage.

Keep in mind a sequencer needs 12 volts run to it from the primary system. This can be a lead from a hub on the primary into the "slave" or sequencer controlled system or a direct line off the appropriate tap.

By the time you figure the price of wire and the sequencer you can often times just install a second UPB control device inside the other transformers.

There are other options out there

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-11-2008, 08:00 AM
Up until this year I had been using Relay Modules (Nightscaping "Islander Module", T-SS-12V is the part number and as a side bar, Nightscaping was the first to introduce the inter-transformer relay... Thanks to Mike and Kevin Islander)

They worked pretty well, but Billy is right.... by the time you account for the relay module, the extra wire required to hook them up, and the labour to install said wire, you are pretty much in the ball park of adding UPB controls. This year it is UPB all the way... "I'm Lovin it".

worx
08-11-2008, 08:37 AM
I am sorry about the load question from multi trans. on a circuit,....just not thinking clearly. :hammerhead: But back to the UPB. It sounds to me that this device is wireless...? Do you need one control device centrally located and receivers in each trans. that will be controlled?

Pro-Scapes
08-11-2008, 09:25 AM
yes you have a timer or schedualer centrally located then UPB sends a signal over the power lines to moduals you install in transformers.

There are plug in moduals that will go in the timer plug of most transformers. There are also a host of controled relays...recepicals...switches and other devices to help you integrate all the exterior lighting into your plan.

Since we have began integrating existing outdoor lights into our overal scene it has taking our projects to a new level. It does come with a learning curve tho.

I would suggest you start with controlscape system and then once you get upb down you can decide if you want to integrate with multiple links in upstart computer software to achieve different scenes and light levels.

The Lighting Geek
08-11-2008, 09:42 AM
I would agree that UPB is a better option because it offers more options. Controlling the outdoor house lights is a great idea especially with dimming modules on the house.

JoeyD
08-11-2008, 11:42 AM
you can use UPB to the first unit then use Sequencers for the rest on that zone. The Sequencer works expecially well if you have 2+ transformers banked side by side. But if UPB is not something you want to spend the time and money on or your client is not interested then the Sequencer is your BEST option for automating the system affordably and reliably without having to use a computer interface or by buying expensive components.

Let me know if you have any questions on the Unique Lighting Sequencer!!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/SequencerandUniBracket010.jpg

Pro-Scapes
08-11-2008, 12:29 PM
They can be a great tool Joey but what happens if you have a trans a couple hundred feet from the nearest 12v source on the main ? or what happens if you cant find a conduit across a 30 ft driveway? By the time you over come these obstacles you can buy the controlscapes system and install 2 mods.

JoeyD
08-11-2008, 12:33 PM
I'm not saying its the end all. If there is a lot of concrete or distance between the first and second TF then it isnt always the best solution. But if running a wire from one unit to the next is not an issue then they are very useful!! Plus you can use really small and inexpensive cable for this! If it is new construction and you build it into the layout it makes things really easy regardless of the landscape. In a retro situation though you need to be aware of what it will take to the get the wire from one unit to the next.

worx
08-11-2008, 02:52 PM
Soooooo,.... TF #1 gets a timer and TF #2 gets the sequencer which is hard wired from the 12 volt tap of TF#1. What size wire? Does it plug in where the timer would normally sit? How many can you sequence?

The Lighting Geek
08-11-2008, 04:21 PM
We use 18 or 16g wire because it has almost no load. It plugs in like the timer would and there is no limit to how many sequencers you can have. I have had 10 with no problem. You can use a nearby hub to power the sequencer too like Billy said.

JoeyD
08-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Soooooo,.... TF #1 gets a timer and TF #2 gets the sequencer which is hard wired from the 12 volt tap of TF#1. What size wire? Does it plug in where the timer would normally sit? How many can you sequence?


You are correct here..........TF#1 gets the timer or automation device, TF#2 gets the Sequencer. Now what you will do is take a piece of cable from TF#1 no smaller than 18/2 and wire one half to a common and the other to the 12v tap just as you would a home run. You will then run that wire to TF#2 where you will wire one half to the red knob and the other half to the black knob. Now when TF#1 fires it will send the voltage signal through the cable to the relay in the Sequencer causing that TF#2 to fire as well.

Like Tomy ad Billy eledued too, you can also pull a wire from a Hub or homerun tied to TF#1 and route it back to the Sequencer at TF#2. The only thing the Sequencer needs is the Voltage, how you get it there is up to you!!

The Sequencer does get plugged in right where a timer normally goes. And you can sequence as mnay as you want!!!

jshimmin
08-11-2008, 05:46 PM
When's the sequencer going to go wireless with a digital ID?

JoeyD
08-11-2008, 06:58 PM
Not any time soon. But we should be finally releasing our UPB Sub Panel in the next month or so. More to come on that.................................

worx
08-12-2008, 02:07 PM
Joey will the sequencers work with the 24 volt systems?

JoeyD
08-12-2008, 02:12 PM
Yes they will and do!!!