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jondcoleman
08-12-2008, 01:19 PM
I was at one of my larger properties yesterday and I am concerned about the amount of crabgrass. Right now, my program includes only one app of pre-emergent in early spring. Do most of you apply again in late spring/early summer?

Anybody apply pre-emergent in the fall or late summer? Thanks!

TforTexas
08-12-2008, 01:56 PM
We do down here, but in your neck of the woods a fall app won't do much of anything for crabgrass. Might prevent a little Henbit, Chickweed or Poa Annua but that's about it.
Depending on the Preemergant you use, determines how many apps you need in the Spring. Pendimethalin requires 2 apps where Stonewall (Barricade) or Dimension you can get away one.

jondcoleman
08-12-2008, 02:43 PM
Dimension you can get away one.

I use dimension. Maybe I applied too little on this property?

NINER
08-12-2008, 02:48 PM
I use dimension. Maybe I applied too little on this property?

TWO APPS DIMENSION AT FULL RATE TIMING IS THE KEY

RAlmaroad
08-12-2008, 04:58 PM
Back when I was using Dimension, we put down a strong application(.21) between February 15 and March 15 at full strength according to bag. Dimension will last up to around 90 days or a little longer for strong applications. Somewhere around the end of May-1st week in June, another lighter .10 per bag instructions was put down. These would take care of the summer seeds. Crabgrass in Tennessee becomes active in July. This split application worked well. The only problems with Dimension is the root pruning. This did cut down on the number of weed treatments to only one in June and a few spots later in the year. The TN growing season or first frost could be as early as the end of September or 1st of October.
Long dissertation short--Yes two application are needed.
Now the SC properties--all together different. All liquids and Gallery
Roy

n-green
08-12-2008, 05:37 PM
Dimension .10 X 2 @ 4lbs. per m2ft in spring.

jbturf
08-12-2008, 06:10 PM
excess watering/rainfall has proved to shorten the effective control of
some products like dimension,

im curious if split apping or two apps of pre-emergent- with 2 different
products would be more effective than just 1 product
such as pre-m for 1st and dimension for 2nd

RigglePLC
08-12-2008, 07:50 PM
There is no money to support this type of research. Very good question. Nobody knows.

b121774
08-12-2008, 08:35 PM
I do 2 full apps., one early Feb. and again early May with pendulum or dimension. Only do fall apps. for bad poa problems.

mngrassguy
08-13-2008, 02:55 AM
2 apps Dimension .10 @ 4lbs/k in spring, 4-5 weeks apart.

daveyo
08-13-2008, 07:05 AM
I use two apps first app .15, second app .10 dimension both app @ 4lbs, if for some reason I get some hot spots along sidewalks, pool etc I'll spray with Drive at a very early stage. Remember crab grass will germinate again like nuts in later July into August in South Jersey anyway.

jondcoleman
08-13-2008, 07:31 AM
I think it is this later July germination that is killing me now! :dizzy:

Thanks for the replies!

LawnTamer
08-13-2008, 09:26 AM
Your season may not be much different from ours. I do split apps of prodiamine (barricade). I do one early spring, Mar 15-April 15, then I do a second in May. I know I could just go at a higher rate and do 1, but it makes more sense for me to run it with the first 2 rounds, as I usually pick up quite a few new accounts well into round 2, that way they at least get one hit. Last year it worked great, this year, between heat, and heavy irrigation, I am getting more break through than I would like to see.

Frank Fescue
08-13-2008, 03:19 PM
Before worrying about adding a second app of Dimension to the lawn look at your situation and practice IPM.


How dense is the turf? If the turf is thin you're going to get crabgrass, run a soil analysis, go over the results and see if theres anything additional you can do for the lawn to get the most out of it.

And where is the crabgrass? Roadstrips, edges? Welcome to lawncare. Edges and roadstrips are usually crud to begin with.

If your situation is lack of desntiy offer a fall seeding to thicken up the lawn. You'll see a hell of a lot less crabgrass in the spring. I have lawns I dont even use pre-emergents on because the lawn is so thick and strong they don't really need it.

jondcoleman
08-13-2008, 03:58 PM
Before worrying about adding a second app of Dimension to the lawn look at your situation and practice IPM.


How dense is the turf? If the turf is thin you're going to get crabgrass, run a soil analysis, go over the results and see if theres anything additional you can do for the lawn to get the most out of it.

And where is the crabgrass? Roadstrips, edges? Welcome to lawncare. Edges and roadstrips are usually crud to begin with.

If your situation is lack of desntiy offer a fall seeding to thicken up the lawn. You'll see a hell of a lot less crabgrass in the spring. I have lawns I dont even use pre-emergents on because the lawn is so thick and strong they don't really need it.

Frank,

The turf is definitely not very dense. This is the first year they are doing anything for it and with an app of broadleaf in the spring, a lot of bare spots resulted. I am definitely going to recommend the fall seeding. Would you kill the crabgrass now and then seed? I guess the crabgrass will die off in the cooler weather...should I just aerate and overseed then, and not worry about doing anything about the crabgrass now?

I will be doing a soil analysis soon.

Thanks!

jondcoleman
08-13-2008, 03:59 PM
I know I could just go at a higher rate and do 1, but it makes more sense for me to run it with the first 2 rounds, as I usually pick up quite a few new accounts well into round 2, that way they at least get one hit. Last year it worked great, this year, between heat, and heavy irrigation, I am getting more break through than I would like to see.


So for these people you pick up later on do you do a heavier app?

junior091273
08-13-2008, 08:11 PM
I've alway done two heavy apps of Dimension early with 08 5lbs per 1000.

Most of the CG we do end up getting is along streets and walkways due to all the heat.

philk17088
08-13-2008, 08:17 PM
How can you guys afford to do 2 apps of crab preventer? THat application is about break even for me. I couldn't handle two apps at what the material costs. I am also charging much more than my competitors. My breakthroughs are curbs strips. also any bare ground spots. I spot with post or do blanket post if needed.

Frank Fescue
08-14-2008, 09:35 AM
Frank,

The turf is definitely not very dense. This is the first year they are doing anything for it and with an app of broadleaf in the spring, a lot of bare spots resulted. I am definitely going to recommend the fall seeding. Would you kill the crabgrass now and then seed? I guess the crabgrass will die off in the cooler weather...should I just aerate and overseed then, and not worry about doing anything about the crabgrass now?

I will be doing a soil analysis soon.

Thanks!

Kill it now, kill it again when it starts to grow again. Aerate and overseed when temps get cooler. Two apps of Dimension aren't going to yeild the results you're looking for next year and you'll hear a lot of "But you put down crabgrass control in the spring right?"

People assume crabgrass control is a definite. The lawn needs to be thick, a lot of customers dont want to pay for the extra treatments, but they're probably not going to be long term customers anyway and will eventually just keep shopping around for the lower price.

Let them know you're in it for the long haul and your concern isnt to put a band aid on the problem, but to solve it and make sure they get the best value from you.

TforTexas
08-14-2008, 09:59 AM
One other thing to realize is that if the chemical companies can realize 95% control at lable rates they are very happy with the product. Well on a 10,000 sq ft lawn that means you might have 500 sq ft of crabgrass, mostly along the sidewalks and curblines. A victory for the chemical company but a service call for us. Always remember what we offer is weed CONTROL, not elimination or eradication and have your Drive 75 handy to catch the ones that got away. But catch them early, Drive is not nearly as effective against mature plants as it is before mid-July. And Drive needs to be watered in after about 10 hours on the plant. It requires both modes of absorption to be truely effective.

lilmarvin4064
08-15-2008, 09:05 PM
premium program consists of...

RD1: all liquid, very low rate of 3:1:2 urea triazone solution, iron citrate, prodiamine at 5 month rate.

RD2: granular Dimension at 0.35# ai/A + liquid Dimension 2EW BP sprayed along hard surfaces. Liquid WC.

summer: Iron citrate + biostimulant

jondcoleman
08-29-2008, 08:46 AM
2 apps Dimension .10 @ 4lbs/k in spring, 4-5 weeks apart.

A lot of people are saying that they put down dimension at 4lbs./M and this seems like a lot. Is this with a fertilizer because I was looking at lesco and the lowest fert they have with .10 or .15 is 19-0-6 I think. That would mean you are putting down .76 lbs. of fert. Isn't that too much for a spring app?

mngrassguy
08-29-2008, 10:55 PM
Not at all for KB. 1lb is max but imo that is too much. 4lbs of N per year is what's recommended around here.

kratzsc
08-30-2008, 03:11 PM
Timing is everything in Pre-M control. Crabgrass germinates when soil temp. reach 55F. No reason to put down chemicals in March when they will not be needed until later in the season.

RigglePLC
08-30-2008, 05:53 PM
Too much nitrogen? Probably not if you are in bluegrass country. Only about a half pound is available--the rest is slow release. Even in cool weather bluegrass would be up and growing. Growth will be slow because of low temperatures, excess growth should not be a problem. Nitrogen in hot weather is more problematic--in the mid south this might cause disease from what I have heard--no personal experience here.

Shop around--find a lower nitrogen fert or more slow release with a good crab control, if you need it. Also do not do lime application if not needed--do a few soil tests.

turf hokie
08-30-2008, 06:02 PM
A lot of people are saying that they put down dimension at 4lbs./M and this seems like a lot. Is this with a fertilizer because I was looking at lesco and the lowest fert they have with .10 or .15 is 19-0-6 I think. That would mean you are putting down .76 lbs. of fert. Isn't that too much for a spring app?

You can get them on 007 or 13-2-5 as well as the 19-0-6 all three are pretty standard sku's

But @ 4lbs /k the 19-0-6 is putting down 3/4 N which to me is fine depending on what you did for you winter round.