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BostonBull
08-12-2008, 09:21 PM
Is there an easy organic way to get rid of crabgrass? With all the rain lately I have crabgrass growing where there is a lot of compaction and normal grass wont grow.

Suggestions?

ICT Bill
08-12-2008, 09:57 PM
I have heard cinnamon bark but I have no personal experience with it and do not know the way to apply it

I believe smallaxe has used it with great success, hopefully he will chime in

Barefoot James
08-12-2008, 10:41 PM
We have a huge problem with these grasses this summer - even lawns that had pre-emergent applid in spring have this problem this year. Showcase lawns included. Any help organically or any help at all - even synthetics don't work??? next year I'm going to tret my lawn with corn gluten in early spring and again in early summer to try to negate this. Only problem is the price - soooo expensive - ICT we can use your product - get to work and watch what comes out of your mouth - LOL.

treegal1
08-13-2008, 12:24 AM
Crab and Nut Grass - Huge problem, so sorry to hear that. lolol, we got that beat and dollar weed to. lolol corn thats a freakin joke, we almost went broke with that stuff.LOLOLOL:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Barefoot James
08-13-2008, 12:41 AM
Composting and seeding and ?????

treegal1
08-13-2008, 12:58 AM
no Its easy you just mix some-------- and a little ( ) and then, yeah sure, this one is not getting let out of the bag, I would be better off posting my bank acc# and a photo id.LOLOL maybe trials will start in dec.

NattyLawn
08-13-2008, 11:03 AM
I have heard cinnamon bark but I have no personal experience with it and do not know the way to apply it

I believe smallaxe has used it with great success, hopefully he will chime in

I'd like to know as well, because I don't think Crabrass Alert is labeled for cool season turf.

http://www.crabgrassalert.com/

It will take 3 shots in 4 weeks, but the Green Guardian will kill crab.

Kiril
08-13-2008, 11:53 AM
For TG .................


http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105405&d=1207491628

+

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117013&d=1218639062

=

SOLUTION

wallzwallz
08-13-2008, 05:07 PM
NattyLawn can you spot spray or is this treating the whole lawn? I am not that familiar w/ this product, but it is a fertilizer right? Doesn't the lawn grow real fast or no? thanks

ICT Bill
08-13-2008, 05:28 PM
We have a huge problem with these grasses this summer - even lawns that had pre-emergent applid in spring have this problem this year. Showcase lawns included. Any help organically or any help at all - even synthetics don't work??? next year I'm going to tret my lawn with corn gluten in early spring and again in early summer to try to negate this. Only problem is the price - soooo expensive - ICT we can use your product - get to work and watch what comes out of your mouth - LOL.

Mr Barefoot good to hear from you, we will have a liquid CGM in the spring, 1 liter treats 1000 sq ft, what the pricing will be is anyones guess at this point, we should be competitive priced against synthetic Pre-M. It will make it much easier to apply though, that is for sure. You should be able to get more consistent results too

One liter represents 20 lbs of solid CGM, it also has a 1.5% Nitrogen so you don't blow your nitrogen budget for the year. If you put down solid CGM (10% nitrogen) at 20 lbs per 1000 that is 2 lbs of N 1000 sq ft. NOFA only allows 3 lbs of N per year

The price of corn is a roller coaster right now, you guys do bring up a good point about carbon footprint of CGM. One month they say the floods wiped corn out, now they are saying bumper crop, who knows

wallzwallz
08-13-2008, 08:43 PM
Bill, sounds good on the liquid CGM. Will it sell as liters or 5 gallon jugs? That's why I didn't use CGM this year, blowing 2/3 of my N in spring when I need very little then.

ICT Bill
08-13-2008, 10:06 PM
Well 1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liters, almost 4 liters

5 gallons would be 18.9270589 liters or 18000.9 sq ft roughly

NattyLawn
08-13-2008, 11:02 PM
Well 1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liters, almost 4 liters

5 gallons would be 18.9270589 liters or 18000.9 sq ft roughly

Hopefully you'll have it in 55 gallon drums or bulk totes.

treegal1
08-14-2008, 12:28 AM
6600K x ............ or the train tanker.lolol. how bad is this going to hurt the budget????or are we on the corn roller-coaster??? can it be stored??? maybe a hedge against $$ inflation???

Smallaxe
08-14-2008, 10:26 AM
Cinnamin bark works as a post-emergent crabgrass killer. Just dust it onto wet leaves. It does work but I haven't tried it on various lawns yet to see if it is safe for kbg,fescues, or the ryes.

ICT Bill
08-14-2008, 01:12 PM
Shelf life should be well over a year, testing coming back in a couple weeks, we should be able to start shipping by the end of September
we are working out the details on production as we speak, we are actually waiting for the corn crop to begin to come in, we should see the prices lower once they decide whether its a bumper crop year or not

We will have a much better handle on pricing and delivery at the beginning of September

wallzwallz
08-14-2008, 09:10 PM
NattyLawn did you see my question about the Green Guardian and spot spraying?How do you ship a 55 gallon drum and what would the cost be?

PSUTURFGEEK
08-15-2008, 12:15 AM
Every time I attend a conference and I see someone speaking about corn gluten I always have to sit and listen, and the one thing I always notice is they always say similar things, and usually it's something like this...If you go with two applications at a high enough rate you can amazingly get 75-80% crabgrass control, do these guys realize a lawn with 20% crabgrass is more than likely the worst looking lawn in the neighborhood.

lilmarvin4064
08-15-2008, 10:22 PM
I find it hard to believe that the organic guys still consider CORN products "green"; considering the fact that it is grown using synthetic urea shipped to us from the other side of the planet.

treegal1
08-15-2008, 10:25 PM
I find it hard to believe that the organic guys still consider CORN products "green"; considering the fact that it is grown using synthetic urea shipped to us from the other side of the planet.you see what i mean! the corn thing is so BS every one gets it, well every one except IS, they are trying to build a new wing with it

NattyLawn
08-17-2008, 01:09 PM
NattyLawn can you spot spray or is this treating the whole lawn? I am not that familiar w/ this product, but it is a fertilizer right? Doesn't the lawn grow real fast or no? thanks

NattyLawn did you see my question about the Green Guardian and spot spraying?How do you ship a 55 gallon drum and what would the cost be?

I didn't see either of these. You can blanket or spot treat. Livingsoils spots, and I blanket one app, then go back and spot treat a second time.

It's a weed and feed, with a 14-0-5 and 5-0-3 formulations. Imo, the lawn doesn't grow real fast and you can't see any difference in the treated areas excpet the weeds dying.

For pricing, you can go here and download the catalog. I believe the 2006 prices are still current. As far as shipping, I don't know what the prices are. We get the best shipping prices in the country, and usually pick them up and ship ourselves.

http://www.farmcropextracts.com/order.html

wallzwallz
08-17-2008, 03:11 PM
Thank you very much NattyLawns.

ALC-GregH
03-11-2009, 01:12 PM
I have crabgrass taking over my lawn from last year. I bought a bottle of MSMA to apply in hopes that it will stop it from growing. My questions are, when should I apply it? Can I over seed with fescue after it's applied? Will it kill the seeds I put down for over seeding? I had read that it should be put down early before the crabgrass seedlings germinate and start to grow. I don't want to mess up the lawn and waste money on over seeding my lawn if it will just prevent the seed I put down from growing. The bottle said something like you need to wait 3 months before you can over seed. Is this correct? If so, How can I apply it and get seed to grow? I don't have a pesticide license and I'm not really interested in getting it to be honest. I just want my lawn to be rid of the crabgrass and seed it with tall fescue. HELP....

Kiril
03-11-2009, 01:53 PM
Pre-emergents and seeding do not mix. It is an either/or proposition.
If you need to seed, you should have done it in the fall in order to allow the turf to sufficiently mature. You can seed now, then apply, but by the time the turf is mature enough to handle a pre-emergent application it will probably be too late to effectively control crab grass.

Also ... why MSMA? There are better chemicals that have less potential for environmental damage. Perhaps something with Dithiopyr would be better here if you are not going use CGM.

Here is a trial done on fescue using various chemicals for pre-emergent weed control applied 3 weeks after seeding the fescue ... maybe it will help you make the appropriate decision.

http://www.turf.uiuc.edu/research/summaries/1990/evalu_herb_pre.pdf

bicmudpuppy
03-12-2009, 02:00 AM
This is the nightmare I did NOT want to hear about. Soil temps were 60+ Monday PM. They say I might see 4" of accumulation by Sat. I have 15 gallons of Pendi left over from "before me" that didn't get applied last year. I'm going to put it down, if for no other reason than I don't want to have to figure out how to get rid of it later! The lower rate is 3.1pts/A I think. I have to read the label again. So, 1 gallon is 5 A. I have enough to almost do the entire property, except I can't spray it on the greens, won't spray it on the tees, and have some "project" areas I'm going to seed. I may have enough to do the late May/early June split app on most of the course. Now, if I'm just not to late when the snow melts :(

On a happier note, I'm almost assured of water in the irrigation ditch to feed my pond by lunch tomorrow. I can start watering something besides greens! That means I can start seeding. Apply the milorganite I squirreled away last fall to go with the seed, and hit everything with a shot or two of molasses as well!

ALC-GregH
03-12-2009, 08:48 AM
Thanks for the reply Kiril. In another thread someone said to apply the MSMA in June after the CG is growing. So I should be able to over seed in the next week or so and then wait until end of May into June to put the MSMA down. The reason I got this stuff is a guy on here last fall said it's very good on CG but I'd be wasting my time applying in the fall. I'll use it up (small bottle) to get rid of it. I'm mainly wanting to over seed to get the lawn thicker with Fescue. Lots of CG waiting to grow.

Dchall_San_Antonio
03-14-2009, 02:23 PM
Is there an easy organic way to get rid of crabgrass? With all the rain lately I have crabgrass growing where there is a lot of compaction and normal grass wont grow.

If I understand this you are only getting crabgrass where the grass does not grow. That makes sense but why does the grass not grow? What is causing the compaction? And I realize this message is from last year, but it might help someone else.

The easy way for the individual home owner to keep crabgrass out is proper cultural practices. Usually the commercial lawn maintenance people do not control home owner watering. If the lawn is watered once a day for 10 minutes it is going to sprout every seed on the soil. It is better for weed control to limit watering to every other week for most of the year and weekly for the hottest parts of summer. Of course you have to water for longer than 10 minutes. Soil type and humidity/evaporation should be considered when adjusting a watering schedule, but the objective is to allow the surface of the soil to completely dry out between irrigations. This will prevent almost all seeds from sprouting. The other cultural aspect is mowing at the tallest end of the spectrum for the grass. For most grasses that means mowing at 4 inches high. Once all the grass gets that tall, it looks extremely plush. The newer varieties of KBG perform better when mowed at 3 inches high so that is one exception. Bentgrass, bermuda, centipede, and some zoysias do better (more dense) when mowed at 1 inch or lower. These are the other exceptions to mowing tall. Whether mowing height adjustments present issues for the professional I do not know. For the conscientious professional with properly maintained equipment I would think it would not be a huge issue. But to summarize the best way to keep crabgrass out is to have grass growing dense and tall. The OP does not have that.

At the same time that Crabgrass Alert product came on the market there was some announcement out of Florida that simple baking soda worked against crabgrass. It may not be a coincidence that Crabgrass Alert contains baking soda. The suggestion from Florida was to put baking soda into a sock, wet the crabgrass leaves with a soapy water solution (crabgrass blades are hydrophobic otherwise), and bang the sock against your hand to allow only baking soda dust to fall from the sock. The point of that is to not over apply the dust. Someone on another forum wrote in to describe his crabgrass as having turned black almost overnight and dead and gone in 4 days. Supposedly that was in a St Augustine lawn with no harm done to the surrounding grasses. That was several years ago and the last I have read on the topic. Otherwise I have heard and read good things about Crabgrass Alert.