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TPnTX
08-14-2008, 09:49 AM
Wow, its easy to do nice lighting when youre working with such exquisite landscape. Who is the landscaper on this job?

Oh wait it's me. I only wish that I had put the wire in the ground when I did this job last June.

Anyways I set this up for them last night and they loved it. I have to also install dimmers for the pavilion lights so they can blend everything together nicely.

I think they will buy it.

TPnTX
08-14-2008, 09:56 AM
I not sure about the columns though. Those lights of course flood everything but since the are on a switch by themself I may be able to graze them while the light is dim. The fireplace and down lights in the pavilion alsl have a switch for each.

klkanders
08-14-2008, 11:19 AM
Nice setting. One thing that caught my eye right away was all of the path lights are on the same side of the walk-way. If you want some input I would alternate them from side to side for a more natural look. Try it you will like it. If you don't want any input then nevermind. :) Also I would replace those coach lights with an up-down type of fixture like the Unique Chamberlain or the Vista ? that allows you in this case to use a smaller wattage lamp on the top then the bottom. And finally if you have an open budget some of those larger trees would look great with some up and down lighting. :) I hope you get the job!

Keith

JoeyD
08-14-2008, 11:56 AM
I agree with Keith, our Orion or Chamberlain fixtures would be great lights to replace those coach lights with. My first option would be the Orion 9 or Orion 12, 120v. Then you can put as bright or as soft a lamp you want into it. If you go with an Orion 12 you will have an up and a down socket to use 2 lamps. The Orion 9 120v will have a single down socket. Same goes for the Chamberlain's. But I think the Weathered Brass look would be much better than the copper.

Let me know if you have questions.
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/ORION4.htm

http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/Chamberlain.htm

TPnTX
08-14-2008, 12:26 PM
oh no I am open to suggestions. Thats why I'm here actually. "use your resources" I always say.

I agree with you on the path lights, however I also like seeing the creekbed. So thats why the aren't alternated. What I don't want to do ,for several reasons, is both creek and path lights unless the creek light can from a tree and not drown the path light. Before install I'll alternate those and see if I still get a decent amount of light for the creekbed.

The thing is we had a large budget proposed. Lights, a bridge, more landscape. Some unexpected expense happened and it all got canned with the exception lights for the creek and pavilion landscape lights.

The customers happens to love the fixtures on the columns. As a matter of fact the very first thing he did when I called him to come out was walk straight to the switch and turn them on. It got tense for a moment when it completely flooded the area. So I assured him that a dimmer switch would midigate the conflict and that is why I'm grazing only the corners for now. I won't know until I put in the dimmer.
Not perfect but I think it will look fine.

If I did change to an up and down fixture, that would illiminate the need for the up light, correct?

TPnTX
08-14-2008, 12:32 PM
lol he also turned on his porch lights immediately. I was like, "Hey! you can't do that"

Lite4
08-14-2008, 12:47 PM
I agree with Keith, instead of uplighting the columns, just replace them with a wall sconce that conceals the light source. I think it would give it a cleaner look. Downlight from the trees where you can instead of using the pathlights.

Lite4
08-14-2008, 12:51 PM
You need to go over the whole oncoming headlight analogy with the homeowner. When driving an a dark 2 lane road your eyes are always drawn to the brightest oncoming light and you can't see anything else regardless of how much you don't want to look at it. I always use that analogy with my clients who have those glare bombs and then I begin to see them nod their head in understanding. They usually go bye bye glare bomb.

JoeyD
08-14-2008, 02:00 PM
Tims suggestion of eliminating the pathlights and just down lighting a good one. With those trees pathlights should be unneccesary!

Pro-Scapes
08-14-2008, 09:36 PM
I agree on the paths. I would definatly try to downlight instead. I find light so much more apealing when I cant tell where its coming from in situations like this.

Another way I have done a similar tree situation is to light the trees and allow that light to reflect back down on to the landscape. I created an archway of light with some trees over a walkway that was very inviting.

on the scones. Thoes coach lights look a bit high so I would either try to lower the prewire or do a little drilling on the scone to move the bracket and lower it as much as I could. The orions are a nice fixture and would look great there. Im guessing orion 9's there possibly 12's if you got the room.

Either way with as high as they are mounted you would need to lamp accordinging with the top and bottom facing lamps and use a clip and frosted lens for the bottom lamp. The orions come with a top frosted lens and a clear one but if you use the frosted top with out clipping a frosted on the bottom your colors will be noticably off.

TPnTX
08-14-2008, 11:15 PM
here is the deal with the trees.
and don't anybody take this the wrong way because this is some good advice I'm being given.
The trees appear to be good size and quality. How ever they are crap trees. Horse apple trees most of them. Ive given them a major trim and there really aren't a lot of favorable limbs. Limbs both big and small die off a lot more than other trees. I'm not saying there aren't a couple of good ones but most of them are pretty low. The limbs get real thin at any height.

I am considering it though. It just that they aren't really the kind of tree to put money into or on.

Regarding the coach lights, again I'm telling he loves these lights. I will not even attempt to talk him out of them. A it won't work and B its not worth it to me to attempt to talk him out of something he so adamantly favors. When I designed the bridge which will be seen in the the backdrop(if the deal comes around) the first thing he did was ask to change the lights to match these.

The dimmer switch is going to have to do. So maybe now it makes more sense why I got what I have in place. Path lights, I do need to alternate them.

As far as the up lights on the columns. I going to wait until I install the dimmer to see what to do. I do think I need to graze the stone one way or another.

Again, I think these are all good valid points. Circumstances have lead me to what we have.

TPnTX
08-14-2008, 11:22 PM
it may be my confidence level in downlighting it showing here as well. I've done one job with DL and it was up high yet still wasn't hidden well. Here I could get high at all.

pihta
08-15-2008, 03:21 AM
I agree with Keith, our Orion or Chamberlain fixtures would be great lights to replace those coach lights with. My first option would be the Orion 9 or Orion 12, 120v. Then you can put as bright or as soft a lamp you want into it. If you go with an Orion 12 you will have an up and a down socket to use 2 lamps. The Orion 9 120v will have a single down socket. Same goes for the Chamberlain's. But I think the Weathered Brass look would be much better than the copper.

Let me know if you have questions.
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/ORION4.htm

http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/Chamberlain.htm
BTW if problem is with high voltage, we have used two high voltage (220V) MR16 in Orion9-12V. Plus grounding of course. However all high voltage MR16 we found are chinese crap. But...

Here they are

Pro-Scapes
08-15-2008, 09:48 AM
what size lamps are in the coach lights now ? are they candelabra based or regular based where you could change out to an MR or par type lamp the shoots up ?

TPnTX
08-15-2008, 11:06 AM
not sure. I looked up the term candlebra and it seems to refer mostly to the fixture type rather than a lamp type or base of a lamp. I assume you mean something that is basically a screw in light bulb in various sizes.

Anyway as you can see the stucture of the fixture itself limits what can be used and definately prevents any down or up lighting.

Clearly this will require outside the box thinking in an effort to blend what he has with the landscape lighting. I take it installing a dimmer isn't anyone's first choice. I can't stress it enough, he loves these lights.

NightScenes
08-15-2008, 12:04 PM
I wonder if he would be willing to have you frost the lenses of that fixture? You can get a can of the stuff at the home improvement store and do it in a few minutes. I would at least use frosted lamps and the dimmer.

Good luck on this project. I am currently working with a client who loves his fixtures on the home so I am changing out the guts to allow for up/down lighting in those fixtures. This should work very well and he'll be a very happy client.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
08-15-2008, 10:49 PM
not sure. I looked up the term candlebra and it seems to refer mostly to the fixture type rather than a lamp type or base of a lamp. I assume you mean something that is basically a screw in light bulb in various sizes.

Anyway as you can see the stucture of the fixture itself limits what can be used and definately prevents any down or up lighting.

Clearly this will require outside the box thinking in an effort to blend what he has with the landscape lighting. I take it installing a dimmer isn't anyone's first choice. I can't stress it enough, he loves these lights.

Try this: If the socket is MED base, try this: Screw in a PAR20 Halogen, 35W WFL lamp and enjoy the results. No more glare, lots of internal reflection and the fixtures will have a glow to them that most people love.

If hte socket is Candleabra base (smaller then MED base) then get yourself some 4 or 7 watt Silicone Dipped lamps from Westinghouse or Standard Products. This will make the fixtures look as if they have candles inside them. Also a very well received effect.

Regards.

TPnTX
08-16-2008, 09:35 AM
okay thanks guys.

I realized yesterday why he likes these lights. The are several of them on the front of his house.

Anyway I installed the dimmer and I was very disappointed. I did it's job allowing me to match the brightness of the lamp to the LV, however they are very yellow in colour :) I know...I know...I told-you-so's. Sometime you just have to see for yourself.

At least the problem is less than before. It's not good though. I have the uplight grazing the column which is white and the coach light above that is yellow.

I created a moving target. I can of course not hit the columns with the mr16, put in a filter to try and yellow up the mr16(not good) or try one of the other lamps as suggested.


thanks again
TP

JoeyD
08-18-2008, 03:07 PM
why not leave these lights on a switch or put them on a seperate timer. This way they dont compete with your landscape lgithing. They only come on when the customer wants them on or when the LV goes off.

TPnTX
08-18-2008, 06:27 PM
joey, they are on a switch. I replaced the switch with a dimmer/on-off toggle.

JoeyD
08-18-2008, 07:32 PM
gotcha........