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P.Services
08-18-2008, 10:19 PM
im on the excavating job i have been posting pictures of and wanted to pick brains. this is a very hard question to really answer but we can try to throw a few numbers around.

the site invloves digging out the clay/topsoil and then trucking it about 200 yards up a hill and dumping it then doing it over until a shallow boul is made. the "bowl" will be about 100'x100' and 4' deep so im figuring about 1,925 yards of dirt will come out. this really isnt that big of a project at all, i honestly belive with the pc200 and tiaxle it can be done in a 14 hour day no problem. ( it takes under 10 minutes per dump load return cycle). the dump zone requires no aditinal dozing or grading.

it will use about 500 dollars of fuel and the operator is not paid a wage (dad, part of his profit)

i have allready bid and got the job but my dad thinks its worth five times what i offerd to pay him.

any one ever keep a price per yard in mind? any one want to toss a... i think its worth.....

Scag48
08-18-2008, 11:40 PM
Figure 6 cycles per hour and by the looks of how you heaped that truck, I'd say you're getting about 14 yards in that truck. So 85 yards/hr X 14 hours = 1,200 yards. Even if you could get 100 yards/hr, you still would be shy of your goal.

I think it's going to take you about 20 hours to get this job done. We can work the numbers backwards, instead of bidding by the yard, we can figure roughly how long it's going to take and work from there to establish your cost per yard. You can't bid by the yard unless you have a pretty good idea of how much material you can move per hour. Every minute that machine isn't throwing material into the truck, you're losing money, just keep that in mind if you decide to bid by the yard.

Don't know what a 200 runs per hour out there, but around here they're about $140/hr.. $140/hr for 20 hours is $2800. Figure the truck at $80/hr and you tack on another $1600. Total bid price is $4,600. Your cost per yard is about $2.42, not too bad and that sounds about right.

P.Services
08-18-2008, 11:54 PM
the truck is actully hauling between 22-24 yards. i took mesurments of the bed to figure this.

michigan has a very slow economy thus the price of a 200 has gone down around 100 per hour (even lower if you know who owes what) i was giving him $4000 to do this job so that sounds about right to me.

he pulled his machines out of the sand box today because i told him thats what the job pays take it or leave it. looks like my ct332 is gona be humpin alot of dirt.

mrsops
08-19-2008, 12:12 AM
im on the excavating job i have been posting pictures of and wanted to pick brains. this is a very hard question to really answer but we can try to throw a few numbers around.

the site invloves digging out the clay/topsoil and then trucking it about 200 yards up a hill and dumping it then doing it over until a shallow boul is made. the "bowl" will be about 100'x100' and 4' deep so im figuring about 1,925 yards of dirt will come out. this really isnt that big of a project at all, i honestly belive with the pc200 and tiaxle it can be done in a 14 hour day no problem. ( it takes under 10 minutes per dump load return cycle). the dump zone requires no aditinal dozing or grading.

it will use about 500 dollars of fuel and the operator is not paid a wage (dad, part of his profit)

i have allready bid and got the job but my dad thinks its worth five times what i offerd to pay him.

any one ever keep a price per yard in mind? any one want to toss a... i think its worth.....

how do you figure on 1,925 yards of dirt coming out

P.Services
08-19-2008, 12:15 AM
100x100x4= 40000 cubic feet % 27= 1481 cubic yard x 1.3 = 1925 cubic yards

ksss
08-19-2008, 12:22 AM
how do you figure on 1,925 yards of dirt coming out


I get 1400 and some change. Factor in the swell and 1900 is a safe number maybe a little high. If the swell was 20% you would still be high by a couple hundred yards, but again better safe than sorry.

I have had several jobs this year that I have moved over 3000 yards with a skid steer (465 with 84" bucket with splash guard). Sometimes it is what it is. Not always the most efficient when your dealing with those kinds of yardages, but I have run into issues of space and getting wheel loader to fit on site is sometimes not an available option.

Scag48
08-19-2008, 12:22 AM
Yeah, 100X100X4 is 1,481 yards by my calculation, plus the fluff factor. Your 33% swell is more than enough I believe.

P.Services
08-19-2008, 12:26 AM
oh sorry i was always tought to use a 30% "fluff factor" thats why i said 1.3

P.Services
08-19-2008, 12:30 AM
I have had several jobs this year that I have moved over 3000 yards with a skid steer (465 with 84" bucket with splash guard). Sometimes it is what it is. Not always the most efficient when your dealing with those kinds of yardages, but I have run into issues of space and getting wheel loader to fit on site is sometimes not an available option.


i belive that statment sums it up, dad says hes done!! so im going to do it with my ct332 and my kodiak. im fully aware this is not going to be a production excavating job and will take some time but it will get done one way or another even if i had to use a wheelbarrow i dont let people down nor do i go back on my word/bid.

im going to call and get a good size tooth/digging bucket for my machine tomorrow

Scag48
08-19-2008, 12:32 AM
oh sorry i was always tought to use a 30% "fluff factor" thats why i said 1.3

Right, but 1.3 is technically 33% if you want to be gnats ass.

Don't buy a tooth bucket, you'll be upside down on this job if you go that route.

P.Services
08-19-2008, 12:39 AM
Right, but 1.3 is technically 33% if you want to be gnats ass.

Don't buy a tooth bucket, you'll be upside down on this job if you go that route.

why do you say that? its hard packed rock soild clay, my straight edge bucket wont do crap but i put my root rake with pin on teeth to it and it cuts right through it then i use the other bucket to scoop it up and load it.

give me a math leason also, wouldnt 1.33 be 33%? not trying to be a smart ass i know im not getting something.

ksss
08-19-2008, 12:56 AM
Here is an option to think about about. I would consider doing the excavating with your loader, stack the material and rent a wheel loader to move it the 200 yards. I can rent a 4 yard wheel loader for about 325 a day here. I would think you can make better time running back and forth with a loader than loading a small dump truck, running up the hill dumping and repeating 250 times at 6 yards per Kodiak load. One good day with a 4 yard loader (350 trips) and tank of fuel and its done. It depends on whether or not time is money. I have dug foundations with a 95XT that are about half that size in 4.5 hours in rocky ground. You should easily dig it in 8 hours in loamy soil with a tracked machine.

The strength of you machine will be in excavating the bowl. Moving the material in a Kodiak would not be an option for me, not with such a small payload. A wheel loader with ride control will make quick work of 1500 yards plus or minus.

Scag48
08-19-2008, 01:00 AM
why do you say that? its hard packed rock soild clay, my straight edge bucket wont do crap but i put my root rake with pin on teeth to it and it cuts right through it then i use the other bucket to scoop it up and load it.

give me a math leason also, wouldnt 1.33 be 33%? not trying to be a smart ass i know im not getting something.

I would agree with you for days about the toothed bucket being much more productive. I suppose you'd have to draw a line and figure out if a $2500 bucket is really going to save you $2500 worth of time on this job. I suppose if you have been looking for a reason to buy one, now would be a good time to pull the trigger on one.

You're right about the math. It's late, I'm tired as hell and should be in bed. Can't run numbers this late in the day. :dizzy:

YellowDogSVC
08-19-2008, 09:18 AM
Here is an option to think about about. I would consider doing the excavating with your loader, stack the material and rent a wheel loader to move it the 200 yards. I can rent a 4 yard wheel loader for about 325 a day here. I would think you can make better time running back and forth with a loader .

KSSS has a point. I admit I do not do much excavating anymore but I found that a good sized wheel loader (I used CAT 928) was perfect for digging and carrying for the short distances. I was digging hard packed caliche/clay mix and carrying about 250 yds for fill on large foundations.

P.Services
08-19-2008, 12:09 PM
yeah ive been needing a good bucket for awhile and i need it to do a lot of other things so i belive i need to step up and just get it allready.

i put just over 10 yards into the kodiak so it does it.

to me i see it going faster to just load it right into the truck and not have to move it twice with another machine. the main thing im worried about is the fact that the clay is so hard packed, its going to make my machine really work hard and i know something will break (has 2000hrs) i try to take it kinda easy on the machine.

P.Services
08-19-2008, 12:23 PM
do you guys think a 50d mini excavator would make any sence to use to load the truck? it would have a 24'' digging bucket. again this wont be the best way but im just thinking it may be easier then doing it with the 332

Gravel Rat
08-19-2008, 01:19 PM
A excavator will dig the hole better than going at it with a skid steer. The 50D would dig the harder ground and bail the material to the side. You may not beable to reach directly truck loading. You can always get one side started raking and bailing the material up then load the truck with the skid steer.

JJLMC
08-19-2008, 04:20 PM
What if you hired one of those guys who's willing to work under $100hr to do the job?..........just a thought.

P.Services
08-19-2008, 06:01 PM
What if you hired one of those guys who's willing to work under $100hr to do the job?..........just a thought.

that was my first thought but im still going to spend a good chunk of change. this project can take awhile,hes in no hurry so i can peck away at it as i need filler work. i dont like to pay to have work done i can do myself, i only gave the work to my dad because hes family and has nothing going.

P.Services
08-19-2008, 06:02 PM
A excavator will dig the hole better than going at it with a skid steer. The 50D would dig the harder ground and bail the material to the side. You may not beable to reach directly truck loading. You can always get one side started raking and bailing the material up then load the truck with the skid steer.

or i will dig across the bowl in a 5' thick layer and keep the truck on the side allready dug so the excavator will be sitting up much higher able to load the truck direct.

ksss
08-19-2008, 10:07 PM
or i will dig across the bowl in a 5' thick layer and keep the truck on the side allready dug so the excavator will be sitting up much higher able to load the truck direct.


You might want to get a Rezloh edge for your existing bucket. It digs like a tooth bucket, but yet you can back drag smooth. You should really be able to dig that with your CTL easily, even in tough ground. A 50D with a 2' bucket will be dam slow. The Rezloh will cost about 600 assuming you have an 83" bucket. Less if it is smaller.

mow king
08-19-2008, 10:26 PM
I got a really nice 80" tooth bucket sitting at my shop that I don't need. Yellow freight should be able to ship it up there cheap enough if you want to a buy a used one.