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CarterKraft
08-19-2008, 03:22 PM
Some pics of the 289C CTL undercarriage.

Looks really stout to me, can't wait to get one in the field.

The last pic is of the original 299C, just for fun of course. :cool2:

CarterKraft
08-19-2008, 03:23 PM
some 299C engine/machine pics

bobcat_ron
08-19-2008, 03:28 PM
Wow, I like the grease fitting placements on the torsion axles, that's smart. I also noticed a set of wires going to the drive motors, and is that an inter cooler I see behind the engine?!?!

iron peddler
08-19-2008, 03:34 PM
That is an Air to Air aftercooler.

ccstrebe
08-19-2008, 03:36 PM
Wow, I like the grease fitting placements on the torsion axles, that's smart. I also noticed a set of wires going to the drive motors, and is that an inter cooler I see behind the engine?!?!

That is an intercooler on the 297/299. That is how they get the extra 10 horsepower over the 287/289. The intercooler is also the reason why the frame behind the cab is longer on the 297/299 than on the 287/289.

CarterKraft
08-19-2008, 03:49 PM
the wires to the drive motors are for the motor speed sensors.

Since these machines are electro/hydraulic each wheel speed is important to providing the best performance.

CarterKraft
08-19-2008, 03:50 PM
Wow, I like the grease fitting placements on the torsion axles, that's smart. I also noticed a set of wires going to the drive motors, and is that an inter cooler I see behind the engine?!?!

that pic was just for you.:waving:

YellowDogSVC
08-19-2008, 03:53 PM
That's a nice looking undercarriage. The weight difference from 272c to 299c means a lot of iron in that thing.

CarterKraft
08-19-2008, 04:00 PM
the rear plate inboard of the towers looks to be thicker than the SSL/MTL too, though I havesn't actually measured.

The roller frames are boxed on the bottom right above the top of the bottom rollers and it appears there is some girth to the whole assy.

Also the 299C has the same air cleaner assy as we are used too but I promise the snorkel and air cleaner improvements are coming.

CarterKraft
08-19-2008, 04:11 PM
That is an intercooler on the 297/299. That is how they get the extra 10 horsepower over the 287/289. The intercooler is also the reason why the frame behind the cab is longer on the 297/299 than on the 287/289.

While I didn't have these two machines side by side, I don't think there is a difference in engine compartment size.

There is a ton of room ahead of the engine on the 289C, looks like the ATAAC would bolt right in?

ccstrebe
08-19-2008, 04:34 PM
While I didn't have these two machines side by side, I don't think there is a difference in engine compartment size.

There is a ton of room ahead of the engine on the 289C, looks like the ATAAC would bolt right in?

I'm sorry, my bad, the extra length was was between the 277 frame and the 287/297 frame and it was for the difference between the radial lift and the verticle lift, not the intercooler.

CarterKraft
08-19-2008, 05:38 PM
I was pretty sure that was the length difference you were reffering to but wasn't sure myself on the C-series, never actually compared them.

No harm no foul.

BIGBEN2004
08-19-2008, 10:17 PM
Those exposed hoses and electrical wires will be snagged fast but brush I think. Also the drive sprocket looks to be supported very different then everyone else's designs, I wonder if it will be a weak area? I guess time will tell, looks like a solid design.

P.Services
08-19-2008, 10:24 PM
Those exposed hoses and electrical wires will be snagged fast but brush I think. Also the drive sprocket looks to be supported very different then everyone else's designs, I wonder if it will be a weak area? I guess time will tell, looks like a solid design.

that was the first thing that came to mind when i saw those wires and hoses, i would give them one day in the woods if that.

iron peddler
08-19-2008, 11:15 PM
no to throw stones....but are most guys not that aware of what conditions that they are in? with the b and c series mtl to this point having exposed hoses to the drive motors has not been an issue...... i appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions, but sometimes i wonder without actually seeing the machine in person many people seem to have a strong opinion....i have seen bobcat roller suspension in person, don't like it personally but i have never said anything on the forum that may say it won't hold up or doesn't really ride any better than other machine....we have had the Cat ctl for 6 months or so on field follow that has held up well to an abrasive midwest soil....is it better than a mtl? durability yes. comfort is close, will it be better than another ctl, only time will tell. can't tell you all how to run your machines or what to buy, but please make wise choices, it is tough to tell someone i told you so, when they have not listened to any advise someone may give you....these forums are great for feedback on most issues. i have yet to see another salesman on this forum tell any of you guys to buy their machine because it is better than brand x, they all seem to say that they will service your business and take care of your needs....sorry for the soap box, it just seems that alot of guys form opinions without trying or witnessing the product.

YellowDogSVC
08-19-2008, 11:16 PM
the rear plate inboard of the towers looks to be thicker than the SSL/MTL too, though I havesn't actually measured.

The roller frames are boxed on the bottom right above the top of the bottom rollers and it appears there is some girth to the whole assy.

Also the 299C has the same air cleaner assy as we are used too but I promise the snorkel and air cleaner improvements are coming.


I wish I had waited a year for all the improvements for the wheeled machines A/C . They never got mine fixed and I had to let her go. :(

ksss
08-20-2008, 12:25 AM
no to throw stones....but are most guys not that aware of what conditions that they are in? with the b and c series mtl to this point having exposed hoses to the drive motors has not been an issue...... i appreciate everyone's thoughts and opinions, but sometimes i wonder without actually seeing the machine in person many people seem to have a strong opinion....i have seen bobcat roller suspension in person, don't like it personally but i have never said anything on the forum that may say it won't hold up or doesn't really ride any better than other machine....we have had the Cat ctl for 6 months or so on field follow that has held up well to an abrasive midwest soil....is it better than a mtl? durability yes. comfort is close, will it be better than another ctl, only time will tell. can't tell you all how to run your machines or what to buy, but please make wise choices, it is tough to tell someone i told you so, when they have not listened to any advise someone may give you....these forums are great for feedback on most issues. i have yet to see another salesman on this forum tell any of you guys to buy their machine because it is better than brand x, they all seem to say that they will service your business and take care of your needs....sorry for the soap box, it just seems that alot of guys form opinions without trying or witnessing the product.


I have for some time suspected that you were selling out of the the wrong stable.

jmf
08-20-2008, 10:06 AM
What is the benefit of rigid iron under rubber? The rigid ride keeps it slower than the ASV, what are the advantages?

jmf

ccstrebe
08-20-2008, 10:35 AM
What is the benefit of rigid iron under rubber? The rigid ride keeps it slower than the ASV, what are the advantages?

jmf

The benifit is plain and simple, in a nutshell, 'durability'.

CarterKraft
08-20-2008, 10:41 AM
What do you mean "rigid iron under rubber", are you reffering to the non suspended bogies?

Construct'O
08-20-2008, 11:44 AM
What was there thought of using the double flange idler on the front and the single flange idler on the rear? Compared to using both the double flange.:usflag:

bobcat_ron
08-20-2008, 12:17 PM
What was there thought of using the double flange idler on the front and the single flange idler on the rear? Compared to using both the double flange.:usflag:

A single flange on the rear eliminates the possibility of de-tracking when turning sharply, if they were double flanged, they would be easier to de-track, and there is always more abuse on the rear idlers, so there is only 2, same idea as the steel rollers on the MTL's.

bobcat_ron
08-20-2008, 12:19 PM
What do you mean "rigid iron under rubber", are you reffering to the non suspended bogies?

The rigid iron is the steel inside the rubber of the tracks, only an idiot would assume the torsion axles were made of rubber.

jmf
08-20-2008, 02:11 PM
The benifit is plain and simple, in a nutshell, 'durability'.

So the hard ride will last much longer.

jmf

ccstrebe
08-20-2008, 02:14 PM
So the hard ride will last much longer.

jmf


You got it.

CarterKraft
08-20-2008, 04:48 PM
The rigid iron is the steel inside the rubber of the tracks, only an idiot would assume the torsion axles were made of rubber.

Normally a sarcastic remark is followed by some type of little smilly emoticon, I don't see one there but I am still thinking you were being smart asstic.

Was I right?

bobcat_ron
08-20-2008, 06:18 PM
Normally a sarcastic remark is followed by some type of little smilly emoticon, I don't see one there but I am still thinking you were being smart asstic.

Was I right?

Nope.

Shortly after I bought the Cat in Dec '07, the first person to see my tracks move independently of the machine "assumed" they were attached by big rubber blocks to the frames, I called him an idiot and I had to physically show him the steel crank and pivots that attached everything together and then show him a torsion axle on his pick up truck and explain how certain types of steel can twist and not snap, hence kinetic energy at it's finest.


Oh and :cool2:

Stick Pro
08-20-2008, 07:19 PM
a torsion does have rubber in them the rubber cords are in the main tube of the axel i have a cross cut pic of one i will try to post

CarterKraft
08-20-2008, 07:39 PM
Man let me figure out how to explain this without being a jerk,

As Stick Pro said there is 4 pieces of rubber on each corner that caries the load of the machine. the elastomers act like shock absorber and spring all in one.

This axle is what is under a fancy horse trailer, or enclosed car hauler.

P.Services
08-20-2008, 07:48 PM
man you guys beat me to it, i was trying to find the info that came with my enclosed trialer to scan on for ron.

bobcat_ron
08-20-2008, 08:37 PM
That cant be what ASV's look like, that's way too light for anything but horse trailers.
I was thinking more along the lines of a 2" thick steel rod that twists, like you see on the old Chevy 2wd trucks.

CarterKraft
08-20-2008, 08:45 PM
It's not light weight material, the bell crank is a 2" thick forging and the other pieces are around 1/2" wall thickness.

It's pretty heavy duty... Have you broke yours?

bobcat_ron
08-20-2008, 08:53 PM
It's not light weight material, the bell crank is a 2" thick forging and the other pieces are around 1/2" wall thickness.

It's pretty heavy duty... Have you broke yours?



Not yet, but give me time!!! :laugh:

I have seen lots of busted trailers with the Dexter torsions though!

CarterKraft
08-20-2008, 09:37 PM
for piece of mind that is the same axle they have ran from the word go on the MTL machines and we don't stock axle assy's.

I have never changed a axle in FTW, I know that some have been broken but not in a long time.

BIGBEN2004
08-20-2008, 09:44 PM
It's not light weight material, the bell crank is a 2" thick forging and the other pieces are around 1/2" wall thickness.

It's pretty heavy duty... Have you broke yours?
When the company I used to work for had 267's,277's and 287's the welder had to weld every torsion axle on every machine more then once before they traded them in on wheeled machines. Under heavy wet red clay they snap pretty often.

iron peddler
08-20-2008, 10:52 PM
we had more break on 267 and 277's....usually with fleet type customers or rentals. very few with owner/operator machines.

ksss
08-20-2008, 11:24 PM
That cant be what ASV's look like, that's way too light for anything but horse trailers.
I was thinking more along the lines of a 2" thick steel rod that twists, like you see on the old Chevy 2wd trucks.


Sure they run the same Torsion system that I have on my 4 wheeler trailer, yea they snap when pushed too hard. But the ride is so smooth and quiet, I would never own a CTL with all that jarring and clacking going on. Sure the resale sucks, but have I mentioned how smooth the ride is and how quiet the tracks are. Whats it really cost to run a new bead around the torsion bars? What I really like is the lack of a grease tensioner. That turn buckle thing rocks! What do you mean I cant get an aftermarket treads for my MTL?


Have I gone to far yet.:drinkup: Easy CAT guys just haven some fun.:laugh:

CarterKraft
08-20-2008, 11:43 PM
I know it's all in fun but these type of the discussions are what makes me wonder if you can ever please Skid Steer customers.

you want a soft ride, then rip apart the sytem that supports it.

have you ever seen the actual suspension component of a D8R, it's rubber.

I will try to get some pictures tommorow of the axle setup.

ksss
08-20-2008, 11:48 PM
I know it's all in fun but these type of the discussions are what makes me wonder if you can ever please Skid Steer customers.

you want a soft ride, then rip apart the sytem that supports it.

have you ever seen the actual suspension component of a D8R, it's rubber.

I will try to get some pictures tommorow of the axle setup.




I don't think it is winnable. I did not know they had rubber in the track system of a D8R.

Scag48
08-21-2008, 12:15 AM
D8's are a damn smooth ride. The suspension system helps quite a bit. Or it could be that 85,000 pounds of steel blundering everyhing in it's path. I'm not sure what's better for the operator in regards to smooth ride. Haha

bobcat_ron
08-21-2008, 12:20 AM
I know it's all in fun but these type of the discussions are what makes me wonder if you can ever please Skid Steer customers.

you want a soft ride, then rip apart the sytem that supports it.

have you ever seen the actual suspension component of a D8R, it's rubber.

I will try to get some pictures tommorow of the axle setup.

I thought the equalizer bars were still leaf springs?!?!

CarterKraft
08-21-2008, 09:28 AM
Bobcat tried another system "roller" I guess, I haven't seen it but you guys don't seem fond of it either.

Is there a axle suspension system that is approved by all, or most.

D11R roller frame

bobcat_ron
08-21-2008, 11:46 AM
That's how Bobcat should have done it, that way they don't need a bunch of weight on the front to make the suspension actually work.

BrandonV
08-21-2008, 07:03 PM
i like that idea there, could there be any risk of a roll over though associated w/ it?