Equipment ?? -- Gravely ZTR & Toro WB

[RoewMow]

Hey guys I am new in the business and need some help. My brother and I have started a service and need advice on the best equipment for the money.

We are looking at a 2002 Gravely 260Z w/ 25hp Kaw. and a Gravely or Toro Walk Behind (hydro or gear?). Big investment and we're sweating it out.

Typical lots to be cut are gas stations and restaurants as well as large (3 - 5 acre) residential lots.

Any feedback on the above equipment? Thanks and look forward to hearing back from you. :cool:

[C4chris70]

I really don't know too much about the Gravely line, but I would highly recommend a Toro walk behind. I purchased a 36 inch Toro belt drive with a 14hp Kohler 14 years ago, and this mower still starts on the first pull and cuts beautifully. If you can swing the added costs of the hydro it would be a good investment, however since you are just starting out you will want to keep your spending to a minimum. Best of luck with your new business.

[Mark]

Do a search on the Mowers,youll get a idea of what is some of the best equipment. I think instead of the gravely rider id try a exmark or toro z master and use the gravely for a walkbehind. Id also get at least a 52" or larger for the accounts youve shown. Like i said hit the search,then demo what your really interested in. Marks Mowing Service Dixie choppers are great mowers also, The most important thing is a great dealer thats a first. Good Luck

[thartz]

Try www.lawnservicing.com for a mower search

[RoewMow]

Well, around here the Gravely (60")seems to be the machine with the most features for the best price. The Exmark dealers around here won't deal and seem to think they have the corner on the market. We looked at Scag and Yazoo/Kees as well but the Scags were pricey as well (same dealers what a coincidence) the Yazoo was a 40 minute drive. We would look at the Hustler but can't find a dealer nearby and we can't afford to have 2hrs downtime just to have it serviced at the "proper" place. We've looked at Husqvarna ZTR (60") as well but the dealer left a lot to be desired.

It looks like we'll go with the Toro walk behind unless someone has a better alternative.

Reliability and downtime are our concerns. Any further input would be appreciated.

[RoewMow]

Dealers are the real question, does anybody know a reputable/helpful dealer in Cinti. other than the Gravely dealer (Highly Recommended by others).

[mowerconsultant]

Originally posted by RoewMow
We would look at the Hustler but can't find a dealer nearby and we can't afford to have 2hrs downtime just to have it serviced at the "proper" place.

Just signed a new dealer in your area.
Here they are:

Midwest Golf & Turf
4730 Ashely Drive
Hamilton , OH 45011
Phone: 513-870-0088
Fax: 513-870-9832
E-mail: wdbarger62@hotmail.com
Website: www.masterequip.com

We just signed this dealer in the last 2 weeks, he will have The Hustler Z line in stock in a few days.
Please call them, and set up a demo.
Also,
We are working on setting up a couple more dealers in your area, should be done by next month
If you have any questions please e-mail me
Thanks
Pj

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

I've never used a Gravely before, but I have been using a Toro 44 inch Proline (belt drive) for 6 years fulltime and have been very pleased. Was thinking about replacing it this season but I think I'll try to get one more season out of it. (Been saying this for 3 years). I've heard that hydro's take a while to get used to and can be very touchy.

LAWNS AND MOWER

[thartz]

Lawns & Mower, I have a 52" toro hydro that I really like and I totally agree about it being touchy; especially if you have the bar style instead of handles going up & down hills causes mine to want to bounce. I do like the hydro since it is so easy to go into reverse.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24702

Why are you guys so stuck on "A" dealer support?

I look for a machine that has more than 1 dealer selling it.

I look for multi dealers.

I WILL NEVER GET STUCK IN A SITUATION OF ONLY ONE DEALER SELLING A MACHINE AGAIN!!!!!!!

One place for parts, one place for repairs.

[RoewMow]

LGF,

It's not that we're stuck on one dealer. It seems as if some of these guys feel like you are a bother if you ask a few questions.... then some look at you like you have three heads when you ask them to explain why their machine is so much "better" than the rest. It seems as if you are entitled toask some reasonable questions when you are spending nearly $10,000.00 of your hard earned money. The only guys that have been reasonable so far are the Yazoo/Kees dealer, the Gravely dealer, & one Exmark & Scag dealer that would not come off the price (500-1000 higher than other Scag &Exmark dealers). I hope this Hustler dealer is ok though, haven't seen those machines in person yet.

Although in Cincinnati "HUSTLER" is a bad name to carry around, they may not be willing to let us operate in the city limits.

LOL

Seriously though any further advice would be greatly appreciated!!

[lee b]

If your worried about dealer support, then check out Deeres new ztrs. They're nice mowers with a great deck and there's a dealer with a good shop in just about every town you come across. :D

[LAWNGODFATHER]

RoewMow

Do you come down off your prices?

Is'nt that a little conseeded?

[Mowman]

If you like the Gravely dealer and you like the way the ZTR cuts I myself would go with their WB also. They just came out with a total new desgin for their WB's and they LOOK like a REAL WINNER. If you like the way they cut I'd STICK with the same brand ZTR and WB. Only one stop for parts instead of going to 2 different dealers to get the parts you needs. Just what makes more SENSE to me.

Good Luck,

Mowman

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

Dealer support is important. I live 3 miles from a Toro dealer, but refuse to buy from them. Service after the sale is pityfull. Never have any parts in stock and can count on 2 weeks of downtime. They don't even have any loaners on hand. I think they expect you to buy a new mower while waiting on the other one. I travel 75 miles to a Toro dealer that prides itself on 24hour turnaround on all repairs. If it's not ready in 1 day, they'll let you use a loaner.

LAWNS AND MOWER

[Clewsew]

I am in the process of researching/purchasing a new WB mower. I have priced several different brands, Toro, Encore, John Deere, and last, but not least, Gravely. I was looking at a left over WB from 2001 and had in just passing asked about the 2002 Pro G models and fell in love.

The new Gravely WB does indeed look like an awesome mower. The gear drive model will go up to 7mph and 8.5 in the hydro. It was also the cheapest for the quality. The deck has been redesigned and is considerably thicker then last years model. They have increased the size of the drive wheels, the casters are semi-pneumatic, and the 48" comes standard with the stripper kit. The power plant has changed from a single to a twin cylinder engine which should provide less vibes, be a little easier to pull start, and be quieter to boot. They also have an electromagnetic clutch for blade engagement previously found on the Hydro series(Pro H).

I am sold on the Gravely for a couple of reasons....For one...price and second, the revisions that Gravely has made just seem to be spot on for durability and is the most cost effective choice for me.

I don't think it is conceded for you to ask the dealer to come down on price. Heck if LGF is so set on paying asking price, I have a 93 Suburban that I will sell him for $5900(of course I will take $5200 is some one offered it,) but I'd rather sell it to someone not so conceded who will give me the $5900 that I am going to call 'List Price'. With that said...my local Gravely dealer has already shot me a lower then list price for the 2002 model that as of yet, no competing WB dealer can touch.

What am I trying to say you ask...Go with the Gravely, I think that you will be happy that you did.

Doug

PS Good luck to you and your brother...no one said it would be easy, but perseverance will see you through.

[RoewMow]

Thank you Doug, I didn't think I was being conceded either. I think that it was the dealer being a little conceded. There's a difference in asking for $$$ off a hard good versus a service. Especially since you can figure the @$$$ paid by the dealer are 55-65% of the MSRP (I'm guessing) otherwise why would they sell equipment if there isn't a killing to be made???? The Gravely dealer was an all around decent guy and made us feel at ease. I wonder if LGF does pay full price at car dealerships as well??? On trucks stickering 30-40k??? Not picking on him, but it is the same idea!!

[Clewsew]

Hope I helped. Well, I have just found this site today, and have spent a little time looking around. Don't take anyone's post to hard. My observation so far is that LGF seems to have a negative outlook on quite a few posts. I hope he and most others mean well, but dealing with people tastefully, or conveying your point with out appearing harsh is not as easy for some people. Let us know what you decide to go with! It might help someone who is much like you and your brother, just a few steps back.

Doug

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Ok you come down on your hourly prices and you can all sub for me.

No I don't pay retail or dealer prices.

But the point was, you would pass up a good dealer because he would not budge on his 20% mark up!!!

No they don't make a killing on mower sales.

Service is where ALL dealers make money.

Same as you. You make money by selling time.

My dealer has a commercial price on all equipment, but that's not to say that I would not have chosen him.

Buying a peice of equipment that you will make money using and asking to come down in price is conseeded.

Just remember TAX DEDUCTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!! You all seem to forget that.

ie; We have a dealer here who sells Bobcat skid streers. He does not and won't budge on MSRP. You can't even buy one from some one else and bring it here. Protected area. The selling dealer would have to pay a 10% commision on the sale to the dealer here.

I'm tired af hearing the bickering of a few hundred tax deductable dollars.

Negative, not a chance

Harsh, mabe some times, but you get my opinion from looking from the outside.

Do you go to a resturant and ask for a discount? You will get laughed at.

Do you ask for a discount when you go shopping for clothes? If you buy them on sale yes or you will get laughed at.

Do your customers ask for a discount? If yes your stupid!!!

Is that harsh, no common sence. Use it.

[Clewsew]

LGF,

How exactly is a restaurant and an equipment dealer related...I'm not sure. But, some restaurants offer the same items for lunch as they do for dinner, but you can get the 'Lunch Special'. So if you are just after that specific item you would go for lunch and pay less....maybe!

I will agree that they don't make a killing on the sales end and that it is the service that pays the bills, however there is room for negotiation....Sounds like your are just as conceded as the rest of us. If you bought an automobile from a dealer why would you want to pay less then retail. Your family or friends will more then likely ride in it eventually and their safety is at the mercy of that automobile, and the automaker. The less that you pay for a vehicle means less money the manufacture has for R&D for safety features and such. Your are telling me that the safety of your friends and family is worth paying less then retail or list? Or do you suppose that the car dealer makes their money off of service as well?

I ask for discounts on things frequently....and you know what? I don't get laughed at...One of two things happen. I either get a discount, or I am politely told no! But not laughing....You have not because you ask not!

And then your right this:
Do your customers ask for a discount? If yes your stupid!!!
Can you explain how someone else asking a question makes you stupid?

Maybe to you who is already established and successful you only hear "bickering of a few hundred tax deductible dollars", but to someone just starting out that could be a hugh difference. Maybe so much as to decide whether or not to get a certain piece of equipment, or do without. Remember that not everyone has your experience or financial backing. Just a thought.

Remember this: There is no such thing as common sense...it is experience and it is all relative to the individual. What is common sense for you is not the same for someone else. We are all different and what is common to one is not always common to another.

LGF, I do appreciate your comments/posts because you do offer 'food for thought', and you spark a response. Very nicely done. I look forward to more of this.

Doug.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Your right, I went from one extreem to another.

Looking at price for a piece of equipment should not be the desiding factor in purchacing it. Can you afford to be without it, should be way above that.

Trust me I have the delma of $1,300 to $5,000 plus for a software program, and time has almost run out.

I know the dealers I go to do not budge on their commercial set prices already (less than MSRP), but I'll try to get a set of extra blades and the first filter changes tossed in, and usualy get them.

Food for thought on your negotiations.

Sorry I just can't take another post of dealer wouldn't budge on his price.

He is usualy selling what he thinks is the best machines on the market, as you are selling what you think are the best services you can provide.

[RoewMow]

LGF,

I appreciate your input and we've had more discussions with the exmark dealer and yes he came down significantly on the price.... $400.00 or less than the Gravely ZTR for a Lazer so guess what! We talk final numbers by this weekend.

[Clewsew]

Are you going to get an eXmark W/B as well. I would like to know as I am looking to buy soon as well.

Thanks,
Doug

[RoewMow]

I'm not totally sold on that (exmark w/b) as there is a premium to be paid for it and the quality of the gravely is right there!

[LexingtonKYcutter]

All I can say is Exmark is the ticket. One other thing is a dealer with a good service deptartment, parts in stock, and has been around more than a couple years gets my business. Price is big but but think of it this way. Lets say you buy a Gravely over lets say an Exmark and save $300. Both break down the exmark is fixed in 4 days, and the Gravely in 10 days..... I dont know about you but that right there is more than 300 dollars diffrence right there. Service rules!

I have never used a Gravely, dont see them down here in Kentucky. I have been an Examrk man for sometime and highly advise everyone to try them before you buy anything else.

Good Luck My Friend

[Downeast]

Roew Mow , I went to the negrows show and saw the 250z , sat on it , all that good stuff . It was quite impressive . My choice of that or a toro wb ,would be that gravely hands down . It had some real nice features . looked strong but not like a tank. I am in the market for a z myself and am going to give gravely another look . Good luck.

[Downeast]

that is the New England Grows Show the other way didnt look so good in print .