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Kennedy Landscaping
08-22-2008, 11:44 PM
I know its not as custom as digging your own but does anyone use the plastic pond liners that are pre shaped and all that good stuff. I am going to be doing a landscaping job sometime where the customer wants a waterfall that goes either into a pond or pondless, not sure on that yet. The waterfall will be near a fence and in a garden and the garden will only be about three to four feet "deep". This will be my first water feature so ANY tips or suggestions would be greatly Appreciated!
Austin

Kennedy Landscaping
08-23-2008, 03:22 PM
bump.....................

XStream Aquatics
08-23-2008, 04:44 PM
I won't install preform ponds. They don't give you any room to do anything. Go with .45 mil liner. Now you can use a skimmer get more water volume cause you're not limited to the little plastic bird bath.

n2h20
08-25-2008, 02:29 AM
i dont use the preformed liner either,, they are boring and a pain to work with.. 45 mil liner is key....

tadpole
08-25-2008, 10:23 AM
Preformed were developed for DIYs not Professionals. Other than appearing easier to install (which they aren't), there is really no positive side to them. They are not deep enough, are too rigid, cannot be easily altered if the site requires such and lastly, from a Professional point of view, they show no creativity or knowledge of Water Features. I get more problem calls from owners of Preforms than anything else.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-26-2008, 10:02 PM
Well this will be my first one, and I want to impress the customer and make the work look good. Any suggestions on how to make a good pondless waterfall?

Venturewest
08-27-2008, 08:07 AM
I have a lot of suggestions for your. I don't have time now but I will try to post some later. Here is a Photo of a falls I just finished.

Rule #1. Pick good rock!! Don't use flagstone for your falls! This falls looks good because I used rock that at one time had water flowing over it in nature.

Rule #2. Don't make a stairs!!

Rule #3 Don't put a "pearl necklace" of boulders down each side of the stream!!!!

Water features that are built like this are not professional.

Find all the really nice features on this pond forum. Print some of the pics and try to build yours just like them and it will turn out good.

Find some local training if you can at a pond build or pondless build. These are getting fairly common from distributors. Good luck.

Wanting to build a great feature is the first step. Ask me some specific questions of you have any.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-27-2008, 12:12 PM
Thanks alot Venture West, I was just wandering of any tips or anything, your advice is great. I will post some specific questions later after I come up with them.
Thanks!

ponderosa
08-27-2008, 02:40 PM
Freak-
find a Savio dealer near you. They have a decent dvd of making a pondless waterfall. It will give you at least one idea of how they are done and the components used in the system. The example is not perfect in my opinion, but the majority of the methods used are pretty sound and I think savio components are good.

Ajax
08-27-2008, 02:50 PM
All good points above. Have some curves. Use large rock to take up to 90 degree angles. Slowly build up your grade, don't make the common "abrupt hill that comes from nowhere" mistake. Do a series of rolling hills so the falls looks like it has always been there. Hide your starting point if possible. At the top of the falls I think it always looks nice if the stream appears as if it's flowing out of the bushes or trees. When its overly obvious that the falls starts at the top of a hill and pours out of a huge un-natural looking basin, it can get tacky.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-28-2008, 11:29 AM
Thanks, you guys are a big help. Do you guys ever put in lighting around these features to put off a dim light onto them in the evenings?

Ajax
08-29-2008, 08:17 AM
Any pond supply place should offer lighting. Like anything else, as long as it's done in a proffessional way, it looks great. There are too many egg shaped lights just plopped into ponds with the cords showing. Buy some nice looking quality product, bury your cords, and make sure the lights are secure and not floating to the surface. Otherwise path lights can be used outside the walls shining towards cascades or other foacl points of the falls.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-29-2008, 09:47 AM
thanks, I hope this feature turns out really well.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-29-2008, 11:57 AM
What is the purpose for the "Pump Vault. What is wrong with just having the pump out in the water? I was thinking put something like a screen of some sort over the top of the basin at the bottom of the falls and covering that with river rock. I know if I do put it a vault it will probably be made from valve control box. I am also planning on having the electrician put the electrical in a valve box somewhere on the side that would be hidden.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-29-2008, 12:01 PM
Also, what is the best way to install the liner. If it is installed correctly there should be no leaks except for the possible plumbing leak, correct?
Austin

Ajax
08-29-2008, 12:21 PM
Freak, I'm from Wisconsin, so I think the nuts and bolts of the ponds are a little different around here compared to your neck of the woods. The ones I used to install had to be winter ready, and pumps had to be easily accessable to be pulled out if they weren't heated. I also installed custom pump vaults, since the company I used to work for specialized in Water features, so I'm not always too knowledgable all the products out there. My guess is, it's all about filtration and access. As for the liner, as long as you keep an eye on your water level and your flow, as well as having the correct base under the liner, you are correct, the only leaks would be in your plumbing (barring any accidental utility knife punctures that is.)

Kennedy Landscaping
08-29-2008, 12:52 PM
Thanks for the help AJAX, what is the proper way to install the liner?

Ajax
08-29-2008, 01:30 PM
Thanks for the help AJAX, what is the proper way to install the liner?

I'd get in touch with your best local pond supplier, to find out those details for your area. I think it will depend on what equipment you are using, pumps skimmers, how much drop, etc.

XStream Aquatics
08-29-2008, 05:42 PM
Pond vaults are expensive. I use 12-15" double wall pipes (culvert pipe). If using a preform I'd go down to a 8-10" pipe. I also use aqua blox. They look like milk crates and allow more water volume in the pond where rocks take up to much. If you insist on using something else you can use grates made by Aquascapes. They come in 2'x2' or 2'x4' sections. You can put blocks under them and then put your gravel on top. If your gravel is to small and falls thru the holes lay down screen or some style of landscape fabric that will allow water to drain thru.

XStream Aquatics
08-29-2008, 06:04 PM
Thanks for the help AJAX, what is the proper way to install the liner?

First put down underlayment. Now people do lay liner the same but when it comes to doing your edges I've seen about 3 different ways. I'll sketch some of them for you. Aquascapes train their CAC's the first drawing, and Ive seen these work in some cases and really not in others. Choose what works best for you.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-29-2008, 10:22 PM
Thanks for the diagram Larry, you guys are such a big help. This project should be getting underway middle of next month or towards the end of sept. as well as renovating the lawn.

Kennedy Landscaping
08-30-2008, 11:38 PM
bump........

TXNSLighting
09-01-2008, 05:40 PM
I have a lot of suggestions for your. I don't have time now but I will try to post some later. Here is a Photo of a falls I just finished.

Rule #1. Pick good rock!! Don't use flagstone for your falls! This falls looks good because I used rock that at one time had water flowing over it in nature.

Rule #2. Don't make a stairs!!

Rule #3 Don't put a "pearl necklace" of boulders down each side of the stream!!!!

Water features that are built like this are not professional.

Find all the really nice features on this pond forum. Print some of the pics and try to build yours just like them and it will turn out good.

Find some local training if you can at a pond build or pondless build. These are getting fairly common from distributors. Good luck.

Wanting to build a great feature is the first step. Ask me some specific questions of you have any.

Venture, you need to start a thread of your water features. They are magnificent.