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AMCAT
08-25-2008, 04:20 PM
The main positive wire on the CAT 248B broke at the starter causing it to arc till the battery was sucked dead the arcing caused a small fire in the engine compartment but caught it & extinguished it before any damage luckily.
From my point of veiw the wire is to short and stiff thus causing it to break from viberation has anyone else had this prob ???

bobcat_ron
08-25-2008, 04:45 PM
Not yet, but that brings up a good pointer to look for now.

Stick Pro
08-25-2008, 07:54 PM
i had the same prob on my 287b but the wire only broke in half on mine no arcking i did leve my trackor dead right in the middle of the homeowners driveway

Gravel Rat
08-25-2008, 08:19 PM
If you guys do a morning inspection before you use the machine something like a cable breaking would be noticed :hammerhead:

Cat is probably using the cheapest grade copper wire you can get melting up US pennies :laugh:

Wire fires can be very distructive all it takes is a little shorting wire to catch some hydraulic oil etc on fire and you have a weenie roast on your hands :cry:

ksss
08-25-2008, 09:32 PM
If you guys do a morning inspection before you use the machine something like a cable breaking would be noticed :hammerhead:

Cat is probably using the cheapest grade copper wire you can get melting up US pennies :laugh:

Wire fires can be very distructive all it takes is a little shorting wire to catch some hydraulic oil etc on fire and you have a weenie roast on your hands :cry:


My morning inspection includes grease, check fuel, water and hydro. I don't lift the cab and get that detailed. Not that it isn't a good idea, but I have work to do.

RockSet N' Grade
08-25-2008, 09:43 PM
Ksss.....work? you're kidding aren't you? and here I thought that we bought all this stuff just to watch it take up space.......hmmmm, got to evaluate my game plan here.....seems like with a cloud or two in the sky and the thought of winter entering people's minds, the phone is starting to ring-a-ding-ding......

bobcat_ron
08-25-2008, 09:52 PM
My morning inspection includes grease, check fuel, water and hydro. I don't lift the cab and get that detailed. Not that it isn't a good idea, but I have work to do.

Mine is just engine oil check and git-in-an-git-er-dun.



My Boobcrap the sequence was as follows:
Check oil, check for fuel leak in engine, check rads for debris, look under the machine for possible (always) leaks, start machine up, listen for odd noises, get out and start checking for leaks under the machine, check the sight gauge on the hydro tank, check exhaust pipe for possible money to be spitting out, get back in cab, check for all electrical functions, fart, burp, scratch myself, fart once more, open windows to vent, burp again, sniff my farts, then go to work, every hour check for oil spill as I drive around, piss up against the machine, fart while entering the cab, scratch and re-adjust my junk and the process goes on and on. :dizzy:

stuvecorp
08-25-2008, 09:59 PM
My morning inspection includes grease, check fuel, water and hydro. I don't lift the cab and get that detailed. Not that it isn't a good idea, but I have work to do.

Just remember to observe Norwegian labor law...

You do not work in the rain or work in the sun.

Gravel Rat
08-25-2008, 10:17 PM
You mean you have to lift the cab to see anything on a Power Tan machine :laugh:

Every morning I would check the oil water, tug on the fan belts look for bleeding from the engine and close the hood on the machine.

Greasing was always done at the end of the day so the machine is greased and ready to go the next morning.

ccstrebe
08-26-2008, 12:26 AM
My morning inspection includes grease, check fuel, water and hydro. I don't lift the cab and get that detailed. Not that it isn't a good idea, but I have work to do.


You just proved one of my points about the Cat. Easy engine accessibility translates into easier preventative maintenance.


Everybody has work to do. But you can't do it if you have a breakdown because something didn't get caught, because the machine wasn't inspected, because it was too much trouble to inspect it. (ie. lifting the cab):hammerhead:

Scag48
08-26-2008, 01:22 PM
Dude, there is no reason to lift the cab every morning for the inspection. There isn't anything under there that is relevant to a morning inspection, you'd just be wasting your time.

ksss
08-27-2008, 01:42 AM
You just proved one of my points about the Cat. Easy engine accessibility translates into easier preventative maintenance.


Everybody has work to do. But you can't do it if you have a breakdown because something didn't get caught, because the machine wasn't inspected, because it was too much trouble to inspect it. (ie. lifting the cab):hammerhead:

WTF are you talking about. I open the rear door to my right is the water in a clear container. My hydro is a sight glass to the left all plainly in view by merely by opening the door. The engine oil is a dipstick directly in front of you. You know that. By lifting the cab I can see the entire bathtub. but why do I want to do that every day? My 465 like your 450 is the easiest cab to move on the market. It is tool free. My 440 requires removing two bolts not as easy as the 465. I still have no need to check it everyday.

I have very few problems with my machines. These last two machines have been exceptional. Last I added it up I had 15K hours operating a skid steer and 12 CASE machines. Please save me from a maintenance lecture from someone who put 350 hours on a skid steer since 06.

I fail to see any advantage CAT has over CASE on an equipment check.

YellowDogSVC
08-27-2008, 09:17 AM
Mine is just engine oil check and git-in-an-git-er-dun.



fart, burp, scratch myself, fart once more, open windows to vent, burp again, sniff my farts, then go to work, every hour check for oil spill as I drive around, piss up against the machine, fart while entering the cab, scratch and re-adjust my junk and the process goes on and on. :dizzy:

I bet the women love that routine! I think I saw that video on you tube!

ccstrebe
08-27-2008, 09:22 AM
WTF are you talking about. I open the rear door to my right is the water in a clear container. My hydro is a sight glass to the left all plainly in view by merely by opening the door. The engine oil is a dipstick directly in front of you. You know that. By lifting the cab I can see the entire bathtub. but why do I want to do that every day? My 465 like your 450 is the easiest cab to move on the market. It is tool free. My 440 requires removing two bolts not as easy as the 465. I still have no need to check it everyday.

I have very few problems with my machines. These last two machines have been exceptional. Last I added it up I had 15K hours operating a skid steer and 12 CASE machines. Please save me from a maintenance lecture from someone who put 350 hours on a skid steer since 06.

I fail to see any advantage CAT has over CASE on an equipment check.


:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

AWJ Services
08-27-2008, 09:32 AM
My cab takes 4 bolts too get it too lift.
I guess engine access was not a big priority when I was demoing the machine.:dizzy:

Seriously though unless your machine sees 1000+ hours a year maint is an afterthought.
Most guys will not even need an oil change more than twice a year.
Why buy a machine based on it's ability too be serviced?

I can see this now.

John "I moved 1000 yards of dirt today what about you Bob?"
Bob " well my skid would not move no where near that much dirt but I changed my oil in 12 minutes"

:hammerhead:

ksss
08-27-2008, 10:27 AM
My cab takes 4 bolts too get it too lift.
I guess engine access was not a big priority when I was demoing the machine.:dizzy:

Seriously though unless your machine sees 1000+ hours a year maint is an afterthought.
Most guys will not even need an oil change more than twice a year.
Why buy a machine based on it's ability too be serviced?

I can see this now.

John "I moved 1000 yards of dirt today what about you Bob?"
Bob " well my skid would not move no where near that much dirt but I changed my oil in 12 minutes"

:hammerhead:


I guess this is where I am coming from as well. The daily checks on a CASE and like most modern skid steers are easy to do. I am all about service convience just like everyone else, but I look for more than that when selecting a machine.

Nice quote AWJ. Sums it up nicely.

ccstrebe
08-27-2008, 11:36 AM
I guess this is where I am coming from as well. The daily checks on a CASE and like most modern skid steers are easy to do. I am all about service convience just like everyone else, but I look for more than that when selecting a machine.

Nice quote AWJ. Sums it up nicely.

My cab takes 4 bolts too get it too lift.
I guess engine access was not a big priority when I was demoing the machine.:dizzy:

Seriously though unless your machine sees 1000+ hours a year maint is an afterthought.
Most guys will not even need an oil change more than twice a year.
Why buy a machine based on it's ability too be serviced?

I can see this now.

John "I moved 1000 yards of dirt today what about you Bob?"
Bob " well my skid would not move no where near that much dirt but I changed my oil in 12 minutes"

:hammerhead:


So I guess I'm the only one in this bunch that steam cleans the engine compartment on a regular basis and keeps my investment in the best shape I can.

In the some of the conditions I work in, that 450 can fill the under belly up with 10" of dry silt in a matter of 30 hr. It took me a whole day to get all that out. So you are telling me I'm supposed to go 1000 hr before lifting the hood, I don't think so.

Maybe I only got 335 hr on my machine but it sounds like maybe I use it a little harder than some.

Speaking of steam cleaning....... KSSS are you ever in the mud. I don't know about you but it takes at least two hours to clean the mud out of the under carriage of a 450 and it seems like you never get all the mud out no matter how hard you try.

With the openess of the Cat under carriage I'm thinking maybe 30 minutes max.

I guess to some people cleaning the machine is not part of the maintenance.

ksss
08-27-2008, 02:04 PM
So I guess I'm the only one in this bunch that steam cleans the engine compartment on a regular basis and keeps my investment in the best shape I can.

In the some of the conditions I work in, that 450 can fill the under belly up with 10" of dry silt in a matter of 30 hr. It took me a whole day to get all that out. So you are telling me I'm supposed to go 1000 hr before lifting the hood, I don't think so.

Maybe I only got 335 hr on my machine but it sounds like maybe I use it a little harder than some.

Speaking of steam cleaning....... KSSS are you ever in the mud. I don't know about you but it takes at least two hours to clean the mud out of the under carriage of a 450 and it seems like you never get all the mud out no matter how hard you try.

With the openess of the Cat under carriage I'm thinking maybe 30 minutes max.

I guess to some people cleaning the machine is not part of the maintenance.


10" of silt in the bottom in 30 hours? Right. I have spent time in Yuma and your arid conditions are not much different than mine other than AZ is hotter, rainfall is probably much the same. I clean out the under carriage once or twice a year. You drop the inspection covers off the bottom and add water. If it takes you a day to do that, well I don't know what to tell you. I cant speak of cleaning mud from the under carriage of a 450. However if you look at both the MTL and a CT and you think that you clean out the MTL undercarriage faster than a CT or any CTL your kidding yourself. I cant imagine it taking 2 hours to powerwash the undercarriage of your 450. I think that is excessive even on an MTL.

As far as your machine being worked harder than most, assuming your refering to me? Highly unlikely. However if thinking so makes you feel better, have at it. Your also migrating from everyday maintanence to how often you steam clean the engine. Not the same, unless your steam cleaning your machine after every use, almost believeable at 335 hours in two years.

I take care of my investment in equipment. I also get top dollar for my trades. Most are presold before they even hit the lot. However I don't baby them. They are tool made to work and generate income. They are maintained as CASE calls for. They are regularly washed so they always look good, and the insides cleaned out as time allows. Thats it.

ksss
08-27-2008, 02:19 PM
:sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping::sleeping:

The sleeping thing is nice.

The most intelligent thing you have said reference this, is that you got the MTL because you believe it will work better for your application. Makes sense to me. If you think the MTL will perform better than a CTL for you, by all means. Just spare me these BS excuses you seem to pull out of your hat, especially since you have not first hand experience with an MTL. :rolleyes:

ccstrebe
08-27-2008, 02:38 PM
The sleeping thing is nice.

The most intelligent thing you have said reference this, is that you got the MTL because you believe it will work better for your application. Makes sense to me. If you think the MTL will perform better than a CTL for you, by all means. Just spare me these BS excuses you seem to pull out of your hat, especially since you have not first hand experience with an MTL. :rolleyes:

It is becoming painfully obvious to me is that I use my machine totally different than you do (silt, mud, finish grading). What seems to be "BS excuses" to you is enough of a problem (and there are many) to me that I am taking a machine that is barely broken in and getting a new one.

I'm willing to put this one behind us if you are and agree to disagree.

YellowDogSVC
08-27-2008, 03:55 PM
I fail to see any advantage CAT has over CASE on an equipment check.

Sounds like you have some solid machines much like my '05 Bobcat s300 was as far as maintenance.

From what I have seen, most of the big names are easy to check out. My Bobcat takes about 2 minutes to check and the CAT took about 4 only because the sight glass for the hydro oil was hidden behind the brush guard. I try and check for water in the fuel every day and that may take an extra minute but unless I am adding fluids, visual inspection can be done before the machine is done fueling.
Since I run cab and air, I check out my in cab filter visually and my outer filter gets checked every few days. I check and blow out radiators as needed. I believe a lot of time went into making the whole process easy for us though I wish Bobcat had Case's "no tool" cab opening feature. That would be nice. The bobcat cab is easy enough but it takes getting out the socket set and if I'm in the woods, it's a pain.

ksss
08-28-2008, 01:44 AM
Sounds like you have some solid machines much like my '05 Bobcat s300 was as far as maintenance.



Yea I could not be more pleased with what my machines have cost me to run since the bumper to bumper warranty expired. I had a sensor leak on the hydrostat on my 465 this year. Other than that both machines have been flawless. I am real happy with that as I don't plan on replacing them anytime soon. I plan to keep these two longer than I usually do. With the current economic conditions being what they are, I will hang on to these.

allinearth
08-28-2008, 07:01 AM
I have a Case and a cat. Get off one and into the other at times. I'll take the Case any day. Maintenance seems about the same to me. It is the operation that is the difference. Case is a much stronger and durable machine with no frills. Cat has all the bells and whistles and is smoother but doesn't have the grunt to get it done. Wish it wasn't mine everytime I run it.

ccstrebe
08-28-2008, 10:04 AM
10" of silt in the bottom in 30 hours? Right.

I just realized from your signature that you don't even own a 450. All this time we have been bickering I was thinking that you did. Yes, the 465 is the same chassis as the 450 but it is not a CTL.

If you had a 450 then you would know that the large front holes through the frame that the wheels would attach to if it was a 465 are not blocked off on the 450 and this is how all of the silt get into the frame pan in such a short amount of time.

Now that I realize you don't own a 450 I don't think it is fair on your part to be so harsh on me and my opinions of the 450. Before the 450 I owned a 440 and I thought it was a great machine, I would have no problem owning one again, especially the new series.

You can not compare how a skid steer is used and how a CTL is used, they wouldn't make CTL's if they did the same thing. The reason I had to go to a CTL was because a skid steer couldn't do the things I needed it to do.

Also, CTL ride so rough that they are virtually shaking themselves to death. I have had several small hydro leaks at the fittings because if this and if I wasn't lifting the cab I would not have caught these.

You want another bad 450 experiance? The first time the pan filled up with silt I was not aware of what was going on and a small rock that came in with the silt got stuck between the build up of the silt and the oil pan and rubbed a hole right through the pan and started leaking like a sieve. Just another example of why I am so tired of this machine.

Again, I would hope that this sheds a little more light on what is going on with me and my machine and why I have the opinions that I do. The Case skids steers are indestructable work horses, I agree with you on that one, but I need alot more in a tracked machine than what the 450 is giving me.

ksss
08-28-2008, 07:41 PM
I just realized from your signature that you don't even own a 450. All this time we have been bickering I was thinking that you did. Yes, the 465 is the same chassis as the 450 but it is not a CTL.

If you had a 450 then you would know that the large front holes through the frame that the wheels would attach to if it was a 465 are not blocked off on the 450 and this is how all of the silt get into the frame pan in such a short amount of time.

Now that I realize you don't own a 450 I don't think it is fair on your part to be so harsh on me and my opinions of the 450. Before the 450 I owned a 440 and I thought it was a great machine, I would have no problem owning one again, especially the new series.

You can not compare how a skid steer is used and how a CTL is used, they wouldn't make CTL's if they did the same thing. The reason I had to go to a CTL was because a skid steer couldn't do the things I needed it to do.

Also, CTL ride so rough that they are virtually shaking themselves to death. I have had several small hydro leaks at the fittings because if this and if I wasn't lifting the cab I would not have caught these.

You want another bad 450 experiance? The first time the pan filled up with silt I was not aware of what was going on and a small rock that came in with the silt got stuck between the build up of the silt and the oil pan and rubbed a hole right through the pan and started leaking like a sieve. Just another example of why I am so tired of this machine.

Again, I would hope that this sheds a little more light on what is going on with me and my machine and why I have the opinions that I do. The Case skids steers are indestructable work horses, I agree with you on that one, but I need alot more in a tracked machine than what the 450 is giving me.


Your negative opinons of the 450 are serviceability issues which are the same be it wheels or tracks. If there are openings on the 450 CT that allow material in then close them. BCron has made his CAT more tighter, Yellowdog had done the same with his BC and CAT. I have caulked holes in my cabs. It is unfortunate but apparently a fact of life with these machines. You have said earlier how you are handy enough to make fixes to the CAT if need be (paraphrasing) you apparently made no such attempt on the CASE.

The source of my "harshness" is largely from laying the blame of certain issues you have with your 450 that are not a result of poor engineering, but incorrect operating procedure or missrepresentation of the facts. Running out of fuel and incorrectly cracking the lines is not a CASE problem, inablility to raise the cab on an incline is not a CASE issue. The CASE daily checks are every bit as as easy as anything on the market. The cab is a no tools lift. CAT is not.

The other issue is the statement that your "research" has lead you to buy a CAT. You did not research anything, even the most basic of research would involve running a competative machine and in your own application. Your demo was in SD likely on a very sanitized equipment lot. I suspect that the CAT salesman told you what you wanted to hear and that was all the research you needed to hear. Thats fine also but don't call it researching a purchase. I am not questioning your need of a CTL or going to an MTL. I only question the inaccurate representation of the CASE machine. The cleaning of the tracks. CASE has sent me to AZ and I have run most tracked machines that are available. It cant take you two hours to powerwash the CT machine as you claim. Yet you believe that the MTL can be cleaned in 30 minutes, not that you know that you just suspect that from looking at it.

The grass can appear greener on the other side of the fence. The reality is that it is not. The rock rubbing a hole in the pan is unfortunate. Don't think however that CAT machines don't have equally as bad of days. A good friend who is an excavator and devote CAT customer (except in skid steers which is a CASE 465) had the loader arms shear off the body of his 500 hour 430 CAT backhoe. They fell to the ground. The welds were faulty on the loader attachment to the frame of the machine. Sh!t happens regardless of color. Your knocking CASE for some things that are not their issue and others that can occur in any machine. I am curious to see if you give CAT the same amount latitude as you do your 450.


I am not going to bust your balls on this any more, I would only ask that you don't missrepresent the CASE machine (they have their issues). The majority of your complaints however, are not CASE engineering problems. I will agree and have from the beginning that the last cab design sucks. Remember you never demoed the new CASE cab. Just be fair in your comparisons, don't make statements that you cant back up and were all good. I honestly hope that the MTL is all that you need it to be. After all we may not agree on the road to take but at the end of the season we all want to be profitable and successful at whatever niche or area we work in. We all believe that the decisions we make are working towards that goal. That is why I don't have an ill word to say on you getting an MTL over the CT. Take whatever train you need to get you to your goal.

Good luck with it.

Also the chassis is longer on the 465 than the 450.