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Edgewater
08-27-2008, 02:23 PM
Hello,

I see may people on here saying that there proposals run in the 200-300 per fixture range.

How many fixtures does this reflect?

I often hit 350-450 for small 10-15 fixture jobs. Do you guys always charge full retail for the fixtures? Here, a CAST fixtures run 160 for bullets and low 200's for path light. The well lights are at 275, fixtures alone.

Just wondering.

steveparrott
08-27-2008, 02:47 PM
Good question, but best not to quote prices (not even retail) nor pricing strategies in this forum since homeowners see them.

An unwanted question to get from a homeowner is 'how much are you charging me per fixture?' Homeowners tend not to understand the value of the lighting design and the need for contractors to make a good living from their profession.

NightLightingFX
08-27-2008, 04:19 PM
Edgewater,
If you would like to discuss this topic in more detail. Get involved with the AOLP Assoc. of Outdoor Lighting Professionals www.lvlia.com
~Ned

Chris J
08-27-2008, 06:26 PM
Edgewater,
If you would like to discuss this topic in more detail. Get involved with the AOLP Assoc. of Outdoor Lighting Professionals www.lvlia.com
~Ned

To further clarify your point Ned:

Edgewater, as Steve pointed out this is not the place to discuss prices as this forum can be viewed by the public. What Ned is eluding to is a private forum where members of the AOLP can share information in much more depth. There, you can spill your guts if you wish. We can talk about money, collection methods, crappy customers, etc...

In Canada, you guys seem to be able to receive a bit higher amount than the majority of us Americanos. This may be due to higher cost of materials, cost of living (which I don't know if it's higher or lower) or the fact that you can only operate 5-6 months per year due to ice and snow.
Regardless, we can answer most of your questions if you keep them vague and general. If you want to ask specific questions not appropriate for the site, PM someone and ask behind closed doors (so to speak).
Hope I helped in some small way :)

NightLightingFX
08-27-2008, 07:56 PM
Chris,
Thanks for clarifying, I figured if I said too much my post would magically disapear.
~Ned

Chris J
08-27-2008, 08:05 PM
Ha Ha! Be bold Ned! If they delete your post, oh well. I don't hold my tounge for anyone, anywhere; as you've probably noticed. God forbid that I ever get banned as some others have been. I'd then have just too much time to focus on building my biz. Damn, this site is costing me a fortune!

klkanders
08-27-2008, 08:16 PM
Good clarification Chris! If you get banned i'm leavin too! :)
Hey Ned ....... hope business is pickin up for!

Keith

Chris J
08-27-2008, 08:29 PM
Thanks for the support Keith! Johnson for President 08! Anything but Obama!

NightLightingFX
08-27-2008, 09:36 PM
Keith,
For the moment things are looking optimistic, I will be getting money
shortly from a hold-out on a job I completed (Damn those situations are stressfull-1st one and I learned from it), I will be working on a 5k project next week, I am working on commercial water fountain project that is moving forward swimmingly, I have a real neat opportunity for a golf course which I will know if I will be doing work for them this fall or in the spring at the end of this month, and I just got a great partner to help me grow my Holiday Lighting business. Thing look a lot better for the 2nd half of 2008 vs the 1st half this year.:cool2:
~Ned

Chris J
08-27-2008, 09:59 PM
Keith,
I will be getting money
shortly from a hold-out on a job I completed (Damn those situations are stressfull-1st one and I learned from it),~Ned

Ned, what do you mean "hold out?" Did the customer not pay you when expected?

David Gretzmier
08-28-2008, 12:43 AM
I'm not really afraid of customers or homeowners reading my posts here. they already know my prices. there's at least a dozen threads in the past 12 months we've talked prices. We're not supposed to talk about our cost of materials in specifics, or profit per light or job, etc.

on my bids, on average, I'm rarely below 200 and rarely above 325. I use quality fixtures, trans, and wire with good voltage range and headroom to add built in. The more "art" you put into designs, aka moonlighting and shadowing, the more time it takes to do jobs, and the per fixture cost will go up. Standard uplighting tends to be less cost per fixture to the homeowner because it tends to be faster. also, more difficult fixture placement, step lighting for example, tends to be slower. I don't price per fixture, or bid that way, but I do use it as a check to make sure I am going to be profitable on a job.

Chris J
08-28-2008, 12:50 AM
You mean you use it as a check to see if your in line with the competitors, right? Checking cost/fixtue doesn't tell you anything. What matters is the bottom line after all the factors have been taken into consideration: Materials, overhead, labor, fuel, etc....

NightLightingFX
08-28-2008, 12:57 AM
Chris,
I'd rather not go into the whole situation bottom line was the customer didn't give me any down payment and I did some work for them. They wanted me to do more work for them. I told them I wouldn't do any more work until I got paid for the first agreement. They got offended and it turned unto a whole mess.
~Ned

David Gretzmier
08-28-2008, 09:44 AM
I think Chris may have been talking to me on the "check" thing. The reality of the price per fixture concept is it covers your costs and provides a profit based on a reasonable assumption- each fixture costs you something, each fixture needs and average length of wire, each fixture will use a percentage of your transformer, and each will require connectors, and a portion of labor. You could theoretically figure out your total overhead for the year and divide that cost into the number of fixtures you install, but I don't because my overhead is spread over Christmas and landscape lights. yes, some fixtures cost more and use more wire, but 90% of what I use are shrouded bullets to uplight and downlight.

It does not cover the unknowns, such as how many rocks are in the ground, and what load is already on that circuit you plug the trans in. It does not cover specialized downlighting, or for the most part.

probably 85-90% of the lights I install are uplights on homes and trees. it covers those easily.

It's those challenging fixtures that take you 3-6 hours to drill,core,saw,tunnel,hang upside down,fish wire, whatever that really throw the "average" per fixture cost out the window.

I did a job a few weeks ago that had 12 fixtures and took 3 hours for 3 guys start to finish. another job took 3 days with 2 guys, 14 fixtures ( "art" project )a week before. Experience told me that the 14 fixture job was going to take tons more time,and wire so I priced it accordingly, but really the only difference in my cost out of pocket was LOTS more wire and labor time on the 14. The fixtures, trans, bulbs, and connectors were the same. profit wise, I would have done much better installing 6 simple uplight 12-14 fixture jobs over those 3 days than a really hard 14. But you do the jobs you get.

irrig8r
08-28-2008, 10:55 AM
You mean you use it as a check to see if your in line with the competitors, right? Checking cost/fixtue doesn't tell you anything. What matters is the bottom line after all the factors have been taken into consideration: Materials, overhead, labor, fuel, etc....

It doesn't tell you anything about your costs, it does tell you something about what your market will bear if you have an idea what the prevailing per-fixture cost is (if there really is one).

That might tell you you need to cut your expenses somewhere within your operation. Or not. It's just one more measure I use as a reality check, after I've gone through and put together a bid, and before I submit it.

klkanders
08-29-2008, 12:54 AM
Thing look a lot better for the 2nd half of 2008 vs the 1st half this year.:cool2:
~Ned

Ned, Hang in there and you will do fine! It's been slower for me also this year but I am still learning and trying some new and different things.
Don't forget to put some money away for Scottsdale in Jan. :drinkup:

Keith