PDA

View Full Version : move dirt fast?


P.Services
08-27-2008, 10:17 PM
some of you know that little project of digging a hole for a swamp i have started, well i have a quick question. i was planing on using a 160 to dig and pile the dirt and then use my 332 and the kodiak to haul the dirt the 300 yards to the stock pile. does that sound some what effecient?

i was then thinking about renting a 966 or 744 loader to haul the dirt because it should do it way faster then my kodiak, plus my old girl wont have to work so hard.

then....... i was thinking why not just dig the hole with the 966 to? why move it twice?

the loader should dig it kind of easy in the hard clay right? i figure use a tooth bucket.

what one would you do?

CAT powered
08-27-2008, 10:19 PM
I'd use one machine to do it all if it was me. If it's only 300 yards you can cover that ground fairly quickly in a loader and a kodiak doesn't hold much material anyways.

P.Services
08-27-2008, 10:25 PM
it will be about 3,000 yards. before i was looking at 2,000 but we are going to go a bit larger.

P.Services
08-27-2008, 10:26 PM
i can haul about 8 or 9 yards in the kodaik per haul. and i have a big bucket on my ct332 so i can load it super fast

Gravel Rat
08-27-2008, 10:35 PM
A dump truck is the quickest way to move the material if you direct load from excavator to dump truck truck goes dumps the load while your scraping and raking the material back. A tandem axle would be better so you can atleast put 16 yards into it. Like I said before you can always get the hole dug and the material bailed to the outside. After the hole is dug then you can move the material at a less hurried pase.

A wheel loader needs good conditions to work in start getting in soft ground or uneven ground not good.

Scag48
08-27-2008, 10:40 PM
Loaders are terribly slow at loading a bucket of virgin soil. Watching paint dry is faster, tooth bucket or not. It can be done, but it's just not efficient enough. Even then, on ground that isn't packed very hard, you'll spin the tires a hell of alot trying to get that bucket full. It would be very frustrating and time consuming, not to mention expensive on the fuel. We ran a 744H at the grounds and after a whole day of running it I think we averaged about 40 gallons in an 8 hour day. I will commend you for trying to do everything with one machine, but I think hogging it out with an excavator and using the loader to move it from the hole to the dump site is a good option.

P.Services
08-27-2008, 11:11 PM
Loaders are terribly slow at loading a bucket of virgin soil. Watching paint dry is faster, tooth bucket or not. It can be done, but it's just not efficient enough. Even then, on ground that isn't packed very hard, you'll spin the tires a hell of alot trying to get that bucket full. It would be very frustrating and time consuming, not to mention expensive on the fuel. We ran a 744H at the grounds and after a whole day of running it I think we averaged about 40 gallons in an 8 hour day. I will commend you for trying to do everything with one machine, but I think hogging it out with an excavator and using the loader to move it from the hole to the dump site is a good option.

thank you very much for that, you speak from experience so i will do as you say and use two machines.

i was just trying to cut cost and save $, i can rent a 966 for $2,000 for a week, i dont believe it will take that long but thats what it costs. if i use the dump and ctl i will save that 2g's

Junior M
08-27-2008, 11:13 PM
But remember that 2g's could end up being spent on time because it took an extra week which would be money your putting out. or the 2g's could go to parts on the kodiak which could break on the second load and then you would have to rent the 966 pay 2 grand and then spend another 2 grand or more on parts for your truck.

P.Services
08-27-2008, 11:17 PM
But remember that 2g's could end up being spent on time because it took an extra week which would be money your putting out. or the 2g's could go to parts on the kodiak which could break on the second load and then you would have to rent the 966 pay 2 grand and then spend another 2 grand or more on parts for your truck.

you are very right, thats what im thinking about. i would rather get it done and get on i have enough to do.

Scag48
08-27-2008, 11:18 PM
I understand you're trying to watch the costs. I'd say if you have time to do it with your truck and Deere, I'd go that route. Like I said, it could be done with a loader, but I think you'd almost be faster with your machine. You gotta figure a 5 yard bucket on a 966 would be a real bear to load trying to dig into virgin soil. The loader will never load that bucket making a cut in one swipe, it just won't do it. You'll lose traction. You would have to make one swipe, fill it a good portion of the way, roll back, then take another bite. By this time, you could've had your rig loaded up with 9 yards of material and gone by the time you screwed around trying to get 5 into that bucket. At least that's how I see it, especially if you're saying that 200 was having a hard time getting into that material, a loader would have one hell of a time.

The only other thing I'm trying to figure out is where you're going to put this dirt. You say you're going to hog it with a 160, you'll never reach the pile from everywhere. I almost think a dozer would be better for moving all that dirt into one pile. Even then, you almost need another person hauling the dirt off to the dump site.

P.Services
08-27-2008, 11:20 PM
yes i agree with the loader thing, i havent run a loader in a few years so im no expert.

J. Peterson Grading
08-27-2008, 11:44 PM
Load with excavator. Any time material is handled more than one time, you are wasting money. These other guys are equipment operators for someone else, you are a business owner. You need to be thinging bottom line, not how do I get all my equipment envolved.

I have moved more dirt that these guys, One is a Half employeed just out of the union triaining course operator, One is a 15 year old pool guy, the other a government worker.

Sorry guys.

Use your truck, get a custom hauler in there with you, and get this job done. You should be able to do this in 2 days or so.


J.

Scag48
08-27-2008, 11:49 PM
Thanks for that low blow. He's digging a pond, unless you can get that kodiak down into it, I don't see a better route. I had thought about saying just load the truck with the excavator but figured that had been thought of and looked beyond.

Have fun playing with your minis tomorrow while my crew is running 3 400's. Yep, I know nothing of what I'm doing.

P.Services
08-27-2008, 11:53 PM
its very hard dirt a truck will drive on it no problem. but i dont know if i can haul out 2500 or so yards in a week with only one truck, maybe if i had 2 or 3 running circles the excavator could stay running the whole time.

J. Peterson Grading
08-27-2008, 11:55 PM
Hey I'm not trying to low blow. I'm just stating a fact. And don't low blow my mini's I own them. Plus Where you want to be. I was. Got real tired of it. I know it all seems nice. Running the big stuff, but at some point its going to get old. Plus (Not to go to low here) Since you got out of school, How many days have you worked? We work every day.

I Do like you. I would love to have a guy like you on my team. But alas, I have small stuff so I know nothing.

J. Peterson Grading
08-27-2008, 11:57 PM
Thats what I would do. I would go with 2 trucks if at all possible. One loading, one dumping. I shouldn't take you that long.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 12:03 AM
yes i would like to but..... i only own one. loading a kodiak with a 160 will be about 2 or 3 scoops loading is fast but 366gassser kodiaks are slow.

Gravel Rat
08-28-2008, 12:04 AM
The job I did last summer we filled a large area probably moved thousands of yards of material. Most jobs we have to move lots of material.

Using a loader to dig a hole will take too long a excavator will be faster.

Scag48
08-28-2008, 12:05 AM
Hey I'm not trying to low blow. I'm just stating a fact. And don't low blow my mini's I own them. Plus Where you want to be. I was. Got real tired of it. I know it all seems nice. Running the big stuff, but at some point its going to get old. Plus (Not to go to low here) Since you got out of school, How many days have you worked? We work every day.

I Do like you. I would love to have a guy like you on my team. But alas, I have small stuff so I know nothing.

I work when it doesn't rain, at least right now that's the schedule. It's not a matter of me being worthless and not getting called in some days. Can't run trucks up a 3.5:1 ramp out of a 35 foot deep hole when the ramp is mud, no trucks, no work for me. Got sent to another job today to stay busy, same story there. We have 30,000 yards of material to strategically finish grade and remove but it's too soggy to even get the 6's out there to do it. I honestly take serious offense to anyone who bashes apprentices. Sure, there are a lot of us with zero experience right out of the hall, but there are some of us with some prior experience. Not like the union takes just anyone, I was up against 1,200 applicants when I applied and was selected #2 out of 1,200. While I haven't done everything nor will I ever claim to, I still have 5 years in the biz. I can out-operate anyone my age and I will stand behind that. Before our Top Hand competition earlier this summer, got a chance to do some of the contests on backhoe and excavator. My times matched my instructors. I don't really like to toot my horn, not my style, but I'd like to think I have a a little going for me. Right now I'm trying to learn about the costs on the jobs we're on. I'm the new guy, so asking those dumb questions to the boss is sure to get some interesting remarks, so I keep my mouth shut but try to figure out everything I can on the bidding side of things.

At some point, I will be running my own show. I know this is going to get lame at some point but at 22, I just don't have the funds nor the stability in my life to buy a bunch of iron, as much as I'd love to go that route. For right now, running the big stuff is a blast and I'm doing stuff that I wouldn't get to do otherwise. I'm not stupid, far from it, I know just as well as you do moving material twice is costing you money 3 times. The problem with this guy's job isn't so much getting the right machine, it's getting the trucks. That 160 would stay busy all day if you had 2 trucks cycling. What's a truck out there for a day? $700? Multiplied by 2 and you'll be into this job for $1400 a day plus the cost of the excavator. That is the issue with hiring out a bunch of trucks. While it's definately efficient, I don't think it's in the budget on this one.

ARP
08-28-2008, 12:07 AM
Picasso, I think your idea of using a large loader like a 966 is an excellent idea for a one man operation trying to complete a job under a certain budget.

Based on your job conditions of having minimal manpower, a sizeable haul distance, and a limited budget, a large loader like a 966 should suit you well. A loader like a 966 has plenty of power to muscle a 5 yd bucket through some tough material, especially with a tooth bucket. Once you dig down to the grade at the bottom of your new "pond" and assuming the material you're driving on is still a hard clay, you should have no problem hogging that material out. Sure, you won't be able to fill the bucket completely in one pass, but it will be alot faster to dig the hole with a 5 yd bucket versus a 1-2yd bucket on the CT. Once you add in the time not spent jumping out of your CT and into your dump truck every 9 yds of material and then repeating that after you dump your load, the efficiency of the loader becomes apparent in the reduced cycle time versus the truck and CT. (Also, I think your body might like you a little more at the end of the day if you don't have to keep changing cabs every 10 mins ;-)) Add in the wear and tear on your equipment for what seems to be a hard digging situation, and that loader starts to look like a good option.

Again, I don't know exactly what jobsite conditions you're dealing with, but a loader sounds like it might be a good option for you. Would it be more fun to get several pieces of iron on site and use them versus renting and running a loader (which gets very boring after awhile) for several days? You bet! Is it the best business decision? Probably not. Run your numbers and really think hard about what 1500 cycles of tearing into the soil will do to your CT versus renting the loader. Like jlm said, that rental could look very good after you have to replace a major part on either your loader or truck, or both.
Also, please post pics and keep us updated!:cool2: Good luck and have fun!

J. Peterson Grading
08-28-2008, 12:11 AM
Call someone with a tri axle, tandem something. Try to get 2 of them. load the hell out of them, knock down the piles with your deere.

Its going to be cheeper in the long run using someone else's trucks and drivers.
How did you bid this job? was it Hourly, or an estimate? If its hourly, and you have the time, then rent the loader or use your kodiak. But, if its a bid, you need to knock this thing out. Get the trucks. 250 tandem loads and 2 days.

A 3000 Yard job really isn't that big of a deal, you have the equipment to do it.

J.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 12:13 AM
i bid it and trust me im going to make money on this any way i do it. but im a misser and will pinch it out as far as i can to make every dollar i can.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 12:16 AM
im going to dig the hole with the 160 and then look at it for awhile and see if my kodiak is up to the task. in all reality im looking at a f-650 i may buy so i would have two trucks to haul if i wait a month. again this job is under NO dead line and is way back in a feild so i can take until winter. **** i may just peck away at it with my kodiak and ctl and take three weeks of a few hours trucking at a time. i will get the dirt out first and then i (we) can decide.

Gravel Rat
08-28-2008, 12:16 AM
If you rent a ADT a 25 ton 6x6 will move more material than a regular dump truck.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 12:18 AM
yeah i thought that was a great idea until i saw what those bad boys run a week $3,300 plus delivery $300

CAT powered
08-28-2008, 12:20 AM
You guys are turning a 10,000 dollar project into a 1,000,000 dollar project.

The 966 or his CTL+dump should get the job done.

Scag48
08-28-2008, 12:20 AM
So what is the budget on this job? I was under the impression you were strapped on this one. Digging and piling dirt with a 160 doesn't really work that well. Like I said before, you'll run out of reach. I suppose you could do one side, pile it behind you, move the pile, then keep digging where the pile was. If you want to dig the pond and stockpile all the dirt, a dozer is the way for sure. However, it's a bunch of time wasted, as we already discussed, to handle this material twice. I would only handle it twice if you were pushing it into a pile with a dozer so a guy in the loader could grab it and run it up to the dump site. That makes sense, you could stomp some pretty good tonnage doing that.

J. Peterson Grading
08-28-2008, 12:21 AM
Scag.

Dude. I like your style, you have enthusiasum. Thats real rare these days. I am not picking a fight, I am sure you are a good operator, and I never said or thought you are worthless. But, operating in a contest or showing up a instructor isn't a big deal. What is, is showing up everyday, doing your job, and going home in one piece.

Being on a construction site, especially sitting in a 400 isn't going to tell you anything about bidding or costs. Nor does a field foreman know anything about them either. To learn that, you need to follow dirtdigger to college, then get an Dare I say office job.

When I started my own thing, I never had a clue about costs, I was always out on a Cut loading trucks, or finishing a pad or something. I needed a better life so I bought Minis, figured stuff out for myself and never looked back.

Someday you will see.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 12:23 AM
you belive you could push dirt up out of the hole faster then you could bail it with a excavator? i think even if i have to move the pile twice it would be faster. however i wont, i plan to make a pile bordering the edge and then one large pile in the middle so it only goes a arms lenght.

more then one way to skin a cat on this eh

ksss
08-28-2008, 12:28 AM
Too bad you have such a small truck. I think 9 yards on a Kodiak will result in some repairs. That is too much weight for a single axle dump truck even if it was a 33K GVW which I doubt it is more like 26K GVW if it has the gas motor. You would more likely get 6 yards on it without killing the truck. So is it even worth getting the truck involved. I doubt it. Especially if your paying a driver to run it.

If I am correct you bid 7K into the project. 3K yards of material is a fair amount of material but within reason. Another option depending on the size and shape and depth of the pond might a pan on an ag. tractor. You can load, and carry with the same unit and up to 18 yards at a time with large MFD tractor and 18 yard scraper. Its an outside the box thought.

If you have the time excavate the hole with an excavator and haul off at your leisure with your truck and maybe rent another for a day or two. Load with you CTL.

If you just want to knock it out, rent the excavator, and hire the trucks and be done. Your profit maybe less but in reality other than fuel you did not have anything into it.

It is a shame you have such a big CTL and are reluctant to use it. If you cant depend on it to get some of this done I would trade it off. Does no good to have it if you cant trust it to get the big jobs done. Like I said before I have had several 3K jobs that unfortunately I had to use my 465 on. Thats why I buy the big machines, never know when you need as much as you can get in a skid steer.

Scag48
08-28-2008, 12:30 AM
How could you say the foreman doesn't know the costs? If he's not paying attention, who is? I'm not calling you out, you are right on various levels. The foreman didn't bid the job, but you can bet a nickel he knows what the costs are and are watching them every day. I guess technically my boss is a super, he's running 2 jobs right now that I know of. I can tell you he's watching costs, I got a song and dance about how much it was costing us to remove the fill on the first day I worked. I was also told that if I held up a truck for any reason coming out of the hole we're digging, costing them even 10 seconds of time, I'd be fired. So, money is an issue and it has to trickle down to daily operations from the bidding manager, just like any other business.

Let's be honest, I never plan to run an outfit like the one I work for, at least not on an ownership level. While we're still being honest, the residential and small commecial stuff that I would more than likely do whenever I go my own route isn't that complicated, I was bidding that stuff when I was 19. House foundations, driveways, utilities, not that hardcore, but I was making money and staying busy.

As far as Top Hand, funny thing is that my times while they matched my instructors, who are some of the best, were just about where the winners ranked. I know, show up and run a closed course, not that big of a deal, but for someone who is supposedly green as can be, I take just a little pride in that. I really don't care that much though, it really only shows that I can be trainable and that running the machine to the best of its abilities is not where I need to be trained. You're right about showing up and being safe is more important in the long run than being a good operator. You can be good all day on the sticks but if you're a jackass and nobody likes you, you screw stuff up, don't show up, then what good are you? I understand that, but I show up 1 hour early every day, usually check the vitals on my co-worker's equipment before doing my own, I think I have the show up to work and everything else figured out.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 12:31 AM
oh i will use it to load all day and night. but if many people say a 966 is going to have a hard time loading its seld i think i would be a fool to try and dig the whole thing with a ctl.

RockSet N' Grade
08-28-2008, 12:41 AM
I have been holding back a bit, but I couldn't help myself.....Going to a job and hen-pecking for a long time may seem like a cost saver, but in reality it is a true time waster and extremely expensive. Lots of guys go belly up learning that lesson. Buck up, get the right equipment to do the job the fastest way possible and be done. Period. As to the type of equipment to handle the job, to give a professional answer, I would have to see the site layout and dump route and destination. The rental difference between a 160 and 200 series is not that much. I would be inclined to get largest hoe I could and run two trucks silly and blow that thing apart. Handle the material only once. If you bid it low or "wrong", be happy with break even.....but get it done and develop a reputation of a "can-do" guy vs. one who takes forever and slow. The forever and slow are the ones that don't exist very long.....

Scag48
08-28-2008, 12:41 AM
How deep is this hole supposed to be? Sorry for the sidetrack. I can't remember the dimensions on this job.

ksss
08-28-2008, 12:48 AM
How deep is this hole supposed to be? Sorry for the sidetrack. I can't remember the dimensions on this job.

I thought it was 5'. We had figured about 1500 yards so the project about doubled.

RockSet N' Grade
08-28-2008, 12:48 AM
So how much a yard did you charge to do this? $2.50 yd? $4.00 yd? and how "fancy" did you bid the pond interior?

Scag48
08-28-2008, 12:51 AM
I remember discussing cost per yard at one point and I think I had it figured at $2.42/yard. However, that was for 1,900 yards of material if I remember correctly.

RockSet N' Grade
08-28-2008, 01:00 AM
I reread all the posts......are you stacking this material? enough area to single pile it? If you have room, and some good drivers you could do that in one long day. If you are confident on a hoe put a laser on the stick to get rough bottom grade, run the snot out of 3 trucks and be done in a day.......wash your hands and be gone....

Gravel Rat
08-28-2008, 01:08 AM
If you are going to bid it by the yard make sure you know the ground conditions really well. It might be soft and easy then a 12 inches down you hit the hardest hard pan in the world or you hit a patch of blue clay.

The unknowns will kill your profit. I would be digging a test hole to the depth of the planned excavation before you tell the homeowner a final price.

Even tree roots can cause problems it makes the digging tough.

Good luck with what ever you choose. I have run 966 I can't see digging a hole easy with a 66. I do hope you know a wheel loader can rollover real easy if your not carefull. Wheel loaders are meant for easy terrian loading trucks not excavating.

CAT powered
08-28-2008, 01:16 AM
I haven't had any issues with loaders getting tippy on me. I've rolled more dozers over than I've rolled loaders.

Their grand totals are
Loader rolls: 0
Dozers: 1

I run old Dresser 530s and they have a higher center of gravity than these new loaders as far as I know.

Scag48
08-28-2008, 01:26 AM
I don't think rolling the loader is a real issue as long as you watch yourself. If this hole is only 5 feet deep, the loader may work. It definately isn't the quickest method as opposed to loading the trucks with a hoe, but it can be done. It will be tough going with a loader, let that be known. You'll be spinning tires, you'll have a lot of holes you'll need to keep levelling out where the tires spin otherwise you'll be rolling over every single one of them on the way back out of the hole. That costs time over cycles, so you'll have to be constantly patching them up. The lesson to remember is that you can do anything with any machine, just a matter of how long it's going to take.

What is the slope for the sides of the pond?

ksss
08-28-2008, 01:48 AM
I don't think rolling the loader is a real issue as long as you watch yourself. If this hole is only 5 feet deep, the loader may work. It definately isn't the quickest method as opposed to loading the trucks with a hoe, but it can be done. It will be tough going with a loader, let that be known. You'll be spinning tires, you'll have a lot of holes you'll need to keep levelling out where the tires spin otherwise you'll be rolling over every single one of them on the way back out of the hole. That costs time over cycles, so you'll have to be constantly patching them up. The lesson to remember is that you can do anything with any machine, just a matter of how long it's going to take.

What is the slope for the sides of the pond?


The other thing is if your renting the wheel loader, they will charge you for tire wear. If your a rookie wheel loader operator, it might get expensive.

wanabe
08-28-2008, 08:39 AM
What about a set of pans? That is the cheepest way to move dirt in my area. You can move 36-40 yards per load, and probably have it done in a few days. It will take for several days to do this with a single axle truck and a 160.

Canon Landscaping
08-28-2008, 09:12 AM
I would rent the biggest excavator I could and hire as many trucks as I needed to keep it busy. We dug a pond last fall and the owner wanted all the dirt moved up to his new home site about 500 yds away we moved 400+ loads in a week with 2 trucks and a deere 200 we used our ct322 to push the dirt out after it was dumped. I contemplated all the same options you are and this was the best way.

Dirt Digger2
08-28-2008, 10:09 AM
nice job there Canon...that looks real good

bobcat_ron
08-28-2008, 10:43 AM
Use what you got, if you have enough help to run the extra equipment, 1 person on the hoe, 1 person in the CTL/truck, you're fine. It's money in your pocket, but if you start renting bigger equipment, you will always lose, especially on the fuel bill.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 04:10 PM
the size did grow a bit, it will be about 40' larger in circumference and about 5' of material coming out. it isnt a pond just a little depression to become a swamp latter. i get stuff done fast, when i start a job for client A i dont leave half way through to go service client B. but when A tells me to put that on hold we have something we need done right now thats what i do.

Dirt Digger2
08-28-2008, 04:51 PM
What is the overall size?...a 5 foot deep hole isn't big at all...if you take a look at some of my pictures i dug out a 85'x41'x4' hole in a matter of 3 hours earlier this summer...hire two trucks for the day to drive onsite...figure 2 x $75 an hour x 10 hours (if that) and you are looking at $1500 trucking...you can dig it out in one day then go in the next day with your loader and shape it up/smooth out the dirt piles...no biggy, you'll be done in 2 days...3 tops


assuming the trucks have a good road and you don't need to be pulling them out all day

P.Services
08-28-2008, 06:26 PM
its hard to say the majority is 5' deep some areas are only 2 some are 10. over all its about a 400'-400' area. i think i can dig it in two days and then rent a loader and haul it out in 2 or 3 days. i will find out.

Canon Landscaping
08-28-2008, 07:21 PM
how do u plan on throwing the dirt 200 ft with the excavator?

P.Services
08-28-2008, 07:26 PM
im not, the stuff around the edges i will toss out the rest will stay on the inside in piles.

mrusk
08-28-2008, 08:13 PM
Can I ask WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU TOOK THIS JOB??


Why did you not figure how out to complete it at that time?

stuvecorp
08-28-2008, 08:21 PM
What is the overall size?...a 5 foot deep hole isn't big at all...if you take a look at some of my pictures i dug out a 85'x41'x4' hole in a matter of 3 hours earlier this summer...hire two trucks for the day to drive onsite...figure 2 x $75 an hour x 10 hours (if that) and you are looking at $1500 trucking...you can dig it out in one day then go in the next day with your loader and shape it up/smooth out the dirt piles...no biggy, you'll be done in 2 days...3 tops


assuming the trucks have a good road and you don't need to be pulling them out all day

Exactly, do this just like Digger said.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 08:36 PM
Can I ask WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU TOOK THIS JOB??


Why did you not figure how out to complete it at that time?

i have many different ways to complete this job, im not working at it now so i figure i can decide and decipher what way will be the most efficient $ wise and time wise.

and on top of that this was originaly all going to be my dads work, well he backed out because he thought it was a "huge undertaking" so i said i will get it done.

Stick Pro
08-28-2008, 09:11 PM
If u are goin to rent something how about a 613 scrapper if there is enough room u could be a one man wrecking crew we run two 613s out here digging ponds all the time that is something to think about

Junior M
08-28-2008, 09:13 PM
Load with excavator. Any time material is handled more than one time, you are wasting money. These other guys are equipment operators for someone else, you are a business owner. You need to be thinging bottom line, not how do I get all my equipment envolved.

I have moved more dirt that these guys, One is a Half employeed just out of the union triaining course operator, One is a 15 year old pool guy, the other a government worker.

Sorry guys.

Use your truck, get a custom hauler in there with you, and get this job done. You should be able to do this in 2 days or so.


J.
wow.. thanks!! sure building and wiring pools isnt what I want to do but its work and i would much rather be doin something else but we are lucky to have it right now with the economy the way it is... and btw I dont clean pools so i am not a "pool boy"

bobcat_ron
08-28-2008, 09:41 PM
and btw I dont clean pools so i am not a "pool boy"


That's OK, you probably aren't "equipped" well enough to be a pool boy. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/pointlaugh.gif

Junior M
08-28-2008, 09:51 PM
That's OK, you probably aren't "equipped" well enough to be a pool boy. http://deephousepage.com/smilies/pointlaugh.gif
is your mind always in the gutter? and so far all the pools we have put in for this guy none of the wifes were good looking either. If i had to clean there pools i wouldnt want to be "equipped" hahahahaha

ksss
08-28-2008, 10:10 PM
is your mind always in the gutter? and so far all the pools we have put in for this guy none of the wifes were good looking either. If i had to clean there pools i wouldnt want to be "equipped" hahahahaha

Obviously your voice hasn't changed and your not yet shaving. Soon your concern about looks will be like the color of your boxers, not a big deal.

Scag48
08-28-2008, 10:11 PM
is your mind always in the gutter? and so far all the pools we have put in for this guy none of the wifes were good looking either. If i had to clean there pools i wouldnt want to be "equipped" hahahahaha

You clown. At your age, you should be after their daughters, not the wives. They'd go to jail for practically talking to you, that's how young you are. All I know is that I rarely checked out the wives when I was mowing lawns in high school, most of them weren't worth a look. It was always the daughters that had my attention. The key? Sunglasses with mirrored lenses.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 10:15 PM
You clown. At your age, you should be after their daughters, not the wives. They'd go to jail for practically talking to you, that's how young you are. All I know is that I rarely checked out the wives when I was mowing lawns in high school, most of them weren't worth a look. It was always the daughters that had my attention. The key? Sunglasses with mirrored lenses.

wow man you took the words right out of my mouth!! and you are spot on with the glasses!!!!!! if i dont get to see at least 5 hot chicks a day mowing im in a pissed off mood

Junior M
08-28-2008, 10:15 PM
I might not be shaving yet but i have more facial hair than my brother who is 21! I probably have more facial hair than my oldest brother (cousin) did when he was my age.. he says that he was 23 before he got a full beard and that was seven years ago! hahahaha man did he catch some crap when the guy we hunt with found it out! can you guess who told him? hahaha arent i just a loving brother! hahahahahaha


you didnt notice my solid glasses in my recent job thread? hahahaha oh and they dont usually have a daughter either!:cry: if they do i never find out or see them!:cry: i always get stuck talking to the homeowner finding out what needs to be done!:cry::cry:

coopers
08-28-2008, 10:28 PM
shaving is over rated, it's a PITA....Ditto on Scag's glasses comments...use that to my advantage in many different ways!

P.Services
08-28-2008, 10:40 PM
bull crap hot girls and pools go together like pigs and ****!!! maybe she isnt out of school yet!!! hahah

wanabe
08-28-2008, 10:48 PM
What about hiring someone in your area with a tractor and 2 pans? Contract it to them for less than you contracted and sit back and have a couple cold ones! I have been there, done that with a ex and a truck, and it is slow. I was loading 1.25 yards a bucket, and running a tandem with about 20 tons on it every load. I was still only able to move about 100 ton a hour, with the truck hauling it about 3/4 of a mile down the road. I needed 3 more trucks, but 4 trucks at $65 a hr adds up to more than a good set of pans hired, and then there is my time/fuel/machine hrs on my ex at the same time. If you can haul 9 yards a load, you will only end up with 54 yards a hour, or 432 a 8 hour day if things go perfect and they won't. A set of pans would come close to getting it done in one day.

Gravel Rat
08-28-2008, 10:51 PM
I thought jlm335 has a ZZ Top beard :laugh:

P.Services
08-28-2008, 10:52 PM
yeah a bigggg excavating company is doing the cut for the road right now so im sure they will give me a good rate if i wanted to go that route. but i dont

im going to dig the whole with a 160 and pile the dirt. then decide if i want to haul it or use a wheel loader to haul it. that will depend on what other jobs i have going. im going to take a shot in the dark and say i will rent a loader.

wanabe
08-28-2008, 11:03 PM
Ok, just watch the $ issue. You don't want to be out there swinging dirt all week only to find out that there is nothing left for you at the end of the week. Gotta take care of yourself on every job or it is not worth doing in my view.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 11:06 PM
just off the top of my head im looking at 2,000 for the 160 for a week and then 2,000 for a 744 for a week and then a grand in fuel. so it will cost me about five grand. now i may not use the machines for a week soild (i dont think i will need more then two days with each) so i can return them early for a rebate or i may have another little well paying job at the other end of the sub to do with them.

bobcatexc
08-28-2008, 11:08 PM
For peaks saks just dig the thing and quite talking about it!!

If other contractors are slow in your area see what they will do to dig it with some pull pans or if not enough room to load pull pans topload them.

Personally I would get a couple trucks to load the dirt out the first time and be done with it. I always get a kick out of seeing other contractors drag out little jobs, to me gives a bad impression if I was a owner wanting a project done quickly to get my ROI for a building project.

If your so set on bailing the whole thing with a 160 and stockpiling at least run your Kodiack at the same time to get at least 1/4-1/2 of it hauled off with out double handling it.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 11:11 PM
again for the third time this project isnt under a dead line and i was told by the owners to do other stuff and then come back to it later.

Gravel Rat
08-28-2008, 11:11 PM
Does the customer want the material dug out of the hole ?

If they don't you could find somebody that wants free fill they have to pay for trucking.

wanabe
08-28-2008, 11:13 PM
I bet I could get a scraper(36 yard at a time) and fuel for $2000 a day, with a operator. Last time I hired one in 2004 it was $160 hr for a Deere 9400T and 2 reynolds pans. I know fuel has went up since 04 about 2 bucks a gallon, and he was buring 20-25 gl a hr. So I am sure they have went up 40-60 a hr on fuel. I bet that would almost finish it in one day.

P.Services
08-28-2008, 11:13 PM
i allreay let one guy in to dig for fill and he puled out about 200 yards so that made a little dent. not much else is going on so i cant find anyone else to dig for free fill.


im leaving out half of the story on what the dirt is going for so if you guys want to add to the story i will type the rest out.

wanabe
08-28-2008, 11:17 PM
Man we need a chat forum!

Bleed Green
08-28-2008, 11:21 PM
so i guess the question has to be asked. What is the dirt going to be used for?

P.Services
08-28-2008, 11:29 PM
it is going to make a road across a swamp. so the question really is how thick does the dirt need to be in order for me to run my ct332 or a pick-up across it. its not a standing water swamp but it is wet ground but you can walk across it and not get wet feet if it hasnt rained in a few days. i think i will get away with 2' thick. so if i dont need to lay it down thick i wont need to haul more then 600 yards thus i wont need to rent a loader.

the rest is going to be piled up next to the hole for us to use as fill later in this project. i allready warned him we will have extra and they are cool with a pile sitting there.

minimax
08-29-2008, 01:30 AM
Put road cloth down and you could get by with a lot less.

minimax

Junior M
08-29-2008, 06:59 AM
bull crap hot girls and pools go together like pigs and ****!!! maybe she isnt out of school yet!!! hahah
no really i dont ever get to see them! we did have one job on the lake now that was nice! all the hot girls on boats or layed out on the little beach that was right across the cove.. (i got yelled at a couple times for about rolling the trackhoe or about hitting the retaining wall..