Gustav

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Latest link and maps

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/tracking/at200807_surge.html#a_topad

If New Orleans gets wacked again it's time to let it shrink to the size of another Galveston. I was opposed to rebuilding it the first time.

[Stuttering Stan]

Looks like a 4 when it hits. I just don't understand why people are so anxious to rebuild is a low lying, hurricane prone area. What a waste!!!

[AI Inc]

BTW , who granddaddy was the brainchild that thought building a city below a river and a lake would be " a realy cool Idea"?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

BTW , who granddaddy was the brainchild that thought building a city below a river and a lake would be " a realy cool Idea"?

It should never have last as long as it did but for 400 years they avoided the bullet and now their time has come. I will say though that New Orleans is a close cousin of Boston in city operation style. Lot of money under the table.

[BrandonV]

BTW , who granddaddy was the brainchild that thought building a city below a river and a lake would be " a realy cool Idea"?

the french

[Wet_Boots]

Hey, everything was done by boat back then, so of course you built near navigable water.

Look up "Old River Control Structure" to understand some of the dilemma of New Orleans.

[Waterit]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Katrina was a tragedy, a travesty, all that stuff. As others have commented, one has to question the concept of building a major city 13 FEET BELOW SEA LEVEL. And then thinking that some pumps and berms are going to protect you.

Everyone forgets that the previous year (2004) Ivan zeroed in on us and basically destroyed 250 miles of coastline, changing NW Florida lives forever as much as Big Sleazy lives were changed. Guess if there had been more minorities affected or if our local and state governments had been as totally unprepared as LA was, we'd have garnered a little more publicity.

[Wet_Boots]

No one builds a city below sea level. New Orleans in the olden days had buildings on the higher ground. It was the pump system installed about a century ago that allowed for construction in the lower areas. And the subsidence of the region is only making their situation worse.

[lowvolumejeff]

No one builds a city below sea level. New Orleans in the olden days had buildings on the higher ground. It was the pump system installed about a century ago that allowed for construction in the lower areas. And the subsidence of the region is only making their situation worse.

No one?

How about the Dutch?
Although, I believe that any time mankind's hubris or stupidity produces "great" ideas that contradict natural law, We Lose. Technology will eventually succumb to nature.
Just my $0.02. Jeff

[Wet_Boots]

The Dutch are doing something different. They reclaim marshland for agriculture, as do the English in The Fens.

[lowvolumejeff]

I thought that the Dutch reclaimation was mostly agricultural also, but researched before I posted, and to my surprise found this:

Today, approximately 27 percent of the Netherlands is actually below sea level. This area is home to over 60 percent of the country's population of 15.8 million people. The Netherlands, which is approximately the size of the U.S. states Connecticut and Massachusetts combined, has an approximate average elevation of 11 meters (36 feet). The Netherlands ties Lemmefjord, Denmark for claim to the lowest point in Western Europe - Prince Alexander Polder lies at 23 feet (7 meters) below sea level.

http://geography.about.com/od/specificplacesofinterest/a/dykes.htm

Surprised me too. :) Jeff

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Dutch don't have hurricanes to tend with.

[Waterit]

Dutch don't have hurricanes to tend with.

Peter, you ready?

[Wet_Boots]

Even without hurricanes, New Orleans is kind of screwed. The land is subsiding, and the Mississippi River is going to someday overwhelm the ORCS and take a new route into the Gulf of Mexico.

[Mad Estonian]

So, I know some of you don't "believe" in global warming. Does the obviously increasing frequency of catastrophic weather events, which is right in line with what all the real climate experts have been predicting, not have any effect on your view? Not that you need to look any further than the rapidly thawing Arctic, which Canada, Russia and the U.S. are now really interested in because new shipping routes/oil exploration opportunities are opening up with the melting ice. But I know there are a lot of you diehards out there. Not that "beliefs" have any meaning at all in this equation.
And I know I'm not going to change anybody's mind with this, but I am really curious, it just seems so painfully obvious. And not because of Al Gore, just so you know. I've never seen "An Inconvenient Truth" and don't plan to. He's not a scientist. And I've looked into a lot of the scientists I've seen who are deniers, and frankly, their credibility just doesn't tend to hold up as well as the ones in the vast majority who say/know it's already here. I've only become 100% convinced in the last year or so (before I only felt 90-99% sure).
Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread. I hope all of you in any soon-to-be-affected areas, and all your loved ones, keep safe.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Peter, you ready?

Ready for another wave of refugees straining our system? Sounds very unfeeling of me but the stories of the refugee types you get from New Orleans aren't heartwarming. They have a welfare culture down there that is pretty pathetic. My Jewish nephew who lives in Houston which will get a lot more refugees said Katrina refugees turned him into a bigot.

[bicmudpuppy]

So, I know some of you don't "believe" in global warming. Does the obviously increasing frequency of catastrophic weather events, which is right in line with what all the real climate experts have been predicting, not have any effect on your view? Not that you need to look any further than the rapidly thawing Arctic, which Canada, Russia and the U.S. are now really interested in because new shipping routes/oil exploration opportunities are opening up with the melting ice. But I know there are a lot of you diehards out there. Not that "beliefs" have any meaning at all in this equation.
And I know I'm not going to change anybody's mind with this, but I am really curious, it just seems so painfully obvious. And not because of Al Gore, just so you know. I've never seen "An Inconvenient Truth" and don't plan to. He's not a scientist. And I've looked into a lot of the scientists I've seen who are deniers, and frankly, their credibility just doesn't tend to hold up as well as the ones in the vast majority who say/know it's already here. I've only become 100% convinced in the last year or so (before I only felt 90-99% sure).
Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread. I hope all of you in any soon-to-be-affected areas, and all your loved ones, keep safe.

First, never apologize for thread jacking here in the irrigation forum.
Second, do some research that doesn't include reading the scare tactics of an election year and political wannabee's.

EVERY global warming theory I have seen is based on the interpretation of manipulated data. Climatologists do this all the time. They take a region to study and then they throw out all the data that doesn't "fit". Some of the best examples I have seen are in the eastern coastal areas. Areas like Buffalo and NYC are 9-10 degrees warmer than the statistical average.............WOW, we have global warming! except that rural, non-urban areas (more than double the acreage/sq miles in question) are 5-6 degrees COLDER than the statistical averages. Don't blame the o-zone, etc. That is a tree-huggers line. Blame the urbanization, (i.e. concrete and asphalt) of America. Nothing that can't be explained by normal cyclic weather patterns on a global scale. And I will behave and NOT respond to anymore about the issue. The impressionable and gullible believe with passion in global warming. Since I have experience some of the coldest winters and worst snow/ice on record of late and the weather records I have here in my new location in NM are the same, forgive me for leaning toward the scientific data I have seen and researched.

[DanaMac]

First, never apologize for thread jacking here in the irrigation forum.
Second, do some research that doesn't include reading the scare tactics of an election year and political wannabee's.

EVERY global warming theory I have seen is based on the interpretation of manipulated data. Climatologists do this all the time. They take a region to study and then they throw out all the data that doesn't "fit". Some of the best examples I have seen are in the eastern coastal areas. Areas like Buffalo and NYC are 9-10 degrees warmer than the statistical average.............WOW, we have global warming! except that rural, non-urban areas (more than double the acreage/sq miles in question) are 5-6 degrees COLDER than the statistical averages. Don't blame the o-zone, etc. That is a tree-huggers line. Blame the urbanization, (i.e. concrete and asphalt) of America. Nothing that can't be explained by normal cyclic weather patterns on a global scale. And I will behave and NOT respond to anymore about the issue. The impressionable and gullible believe with passion in global warming. Since I have experience some of the coldest winters and worst snow/ice on record of late and the weather records I have here in my new location in NM are the same, forgive me for leaning toward the scientific data I have seen and researched.

I know we shouldn't drag this on here, but we are. Global warming causes overall climate change. Not necessarily isolated/regional warming. It's the warming and melting or the polar caps that warms the overall oceans and changes the massive weather events. BUT, yes it is cyclic and somewhat normal, but we have sped up the pattern and increased the probability of more widespread events. INCLUDING blizzards and lower than normal winter temps.

I guess I am impressionable and gullible. :rolleyes:

[Dirt Boy]

Global Worming??
I believe in it. Just read the last few chapters in Revelations (Bible) about it!!
It's just gonna be a tad bit warmer than what those crazy tree hugging, radical, left wing, socialist, communistic, buggers are telling us.
And it ain't gonna be G. Bush's fault neither.
:)

[DanaMac]

Global Worming??
I believe in it. Just read the last few chapters in Revelations (Bible) about it!!
It's just gonna be a tad bit warmer than what those crazy tree hugging, radical, left wing, socialist, communistic, buggers are telling us.
And it ain't gonna be G. Bush's fault neither.
:)

Go back to the political and religious threads please thank you.

[Dirt Boy]

OK,
It was said with a bit of humor!
Building below sea level ..... hoping not to get flooded ....

Not intended to offend, not too sorry if it did:)

[Mad Estonian]

First, never apologize for thread jacking here in the irrigation forum.
Second, do some research that doesn't include reading the scare tactics of an election year and political wannabee's.

With regards to your first remark, I'm a Canadian, so it's in my nature to apologize. Sorry.:canadaflag:
As for the second, wow. Look, I know you're a smart guy, I've read lots of your posts and really appreciate your know-how. But why would you make the assumption that my opinion has anything to do with elections/politics? The last person I'm going to try to learn anything from is a politician. I could care less what they have to say, including Gore. But I have done a lot of reading these past few years on this issue. I wasn't willing to be entirely convinced too easily, I know that nobody can predict the future, and I don't pretend to be a climatologist. But 2 things have convinced me: one, like I say, not only have I found that there are way, way more scientists saying something IS happening than that aren't, but also, none of the opposing scientists have blown me away exactly with their credibility. Sure, some of them have impressive credentials in some areas, but none of them have really appeared to me to be better able to make the call than, say, one of the world's leading experts, Dr. Andrew Weaver, who's local here at UVIC. I've seen him present, I've heard him lots on the radio. He's not exactly a whacko left-wing treehugging nutjob. He appears to me to be a very ordinary guy, who's really good at what he does, and is seeing some really nasty trends developing. I trust him a helluva lot more than Dr. Fred Singer, or our local denier, Dr. Tim Ball. They just don't have his credentials, and they don't seem trustworthy to me.
But more importantly than that, I've been swayed by what's happening in the world. Arctic thawing, "once in a hundred year" storms happening every few years, lemon trees surviving outside year-round here where I live (not possible a decade ago). So forget the politicians. I don't need to look to them to form my own opinions on things.
Thought I'd throw in a link to a National Geographic article about some whacko left-wing treehugging nutjob Inuit up in the Arctic who "claim" their environment is rapidly changing around them. I dunno, I guess Greenpeace must have paid them off or something.:)
http://http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070515-inuit-arctic_2.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070515-inuit-arctic_2.html)
(And one last thing- if I wanted to, I could find plenty of research and opinions to support a hypothetical claim that Orbit make the best irrigation products. I realize that can work both ways, but I'm just saying...).

[lowvolumejeff]

First, never apologize for thread jacking here in the irrigation forum.
Second, do some research that doesn't include reading the scare tactics of an election year and political wannabee's.

With regards to your first remark, I'm a Canadian, so it's in my nature to apologize. Sorry.:canadaflag:
As for the second, wow. Look, I know you're a smart guy, I've read lots of your posts and really appreciate your know-how. But why would you make the assumption that my opinion has anything to do with elections/politics? The last person I'm going to try to learn anything from is a politician. I could care less what they have to say, including Gore. But I have done a lot of reading these past few years on this issue. I wasn't willing to be entirely convinced too easily, I know that nobody can predict the future, and I don't pretend to be a climatologist. But 2 things have convinced me: one, like I say, not only have I found that there are way, way more scientists saying something IS happening than that aren't, but also, none of the opposing scientists have blown me away exactly with their credibility. Sure, some of them have impressive credentials in some areas, but none of them have really appeared to me to be better able to make the call than, say, one of the world's leading experts, Dr. Andrew Weaver, who's local here at UVIC. I've seen him present, I've heard him lots on the radio. He's not exactly a whacko left-wing treehugging nutjob. He appears to me to be a very ordinary guy, who's really good at what he does, and is seeing some really nasty trends developing. I trust him a helluva lot more than Dr. Fred Singer, or our local denier, Dr. Tim Ball. They just don't have his credentials, and they don't seem trustworthy to me.
But more importantly than that, I've been swayed by what's happening in the world. Arctic thawing, "once in a hundred year" storms happening every few years, lemon trees surviving outside year-round here where I live (not possible a decade ago). So forget the politicians. I don't need to look to them to form my own opinions on things.
Thought I'd throw in a link to a National Geographic article about some whacko left-wing treehugging nutjob Inuit up in the Arctic who "claim" their environment is rapidly changing around them. I dunno, I guess Greenpeace must have paid them off or something.:)
http://http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070515-inuit-arctic_2.html (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070515-inuit-arctic_2.html)
(And one last thing- if I wanted to, I could find plenty of research and opinions to support a hypothetical claim that Orbit make the best irrigation products. I realize that can work both ways, but I'm just saying...).

Low on Blinker fluid? :)

[Wet_Boots]

The entire world is low on blinker fluid...

[DanaMac]

The entire world is low on blinker fluid...

And it's due to global warming.... :)

[Mad Estonian]

You guys are hilarious. Reminds me why I quit posting on here in the first place...

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

You guys are hilarious. Reminds me why I quit posting on here in the first place...

Yah but visiting you is on my 10 things to do before I die list.:)

Let me add that the one of the latest Texas Parks and Wildlife had an article about the northern migration of many plant and bird species. Birds that were never seen beyond the Texas coast are now seen as far north as Austin. I've always found the TP&W to be a pretty even keel magazine.

[Mad Estonian]

Yah but visiting you is on my 10 things to do before I die list.

You're welcome any time buddy. Just try not to let Gustav's aftermath leave you too bigoted (not really too sure where to draw the line on that one... but I know for sure that I probably would've turned out a little differently if I'd grown up impoverished in inner city New Orleans... guess now I'm on to topic #2 that I should never try to have a discussion on here about...).
Sorry, got to run, I need to refill my blinker :rolleyes:

[bicmudpuppy]

I said I wouldn't reply, but I will make one more comment (and yes, I KNOW I'm low on blinker fluid). The guys making the most noise about global warming are making money from it. The esteemed researcher doesn't get paid to find out that there is nothing to fear or nothing we can change. The credible articles against global warming are un-funded or underfunded research with a rare few who have decided to publish results that didn't say what they were funded to say. Is the climate changing? When did it stop? Dana, your way above sea level working and digging in ground that screams about the last ice age. What was the cycle like leading up to that? I don't know and I don't really care. Will my great, great, great grandchildren possibly have some serious climate issues to deal with? Probably. Are they related to anything we can change w/o being very different than what we are? I doubt it. The issues are clouded by an intense desire to place blame. Placing blame on things you cannot change/control does nothing but further harm. History is full of the issues we have used to meet these ends. Global warming can wait in line.

[Stuttering Stan]

PLEASE, STOP THE INSANITY. Can we get back to the original topic?

[Wet_Boots]

What original topic? Will Hurricane Gustav interrupt our supply of blinker fluid?

[bicmudpuppy]

Not only is it threatening the blinker fluid supply, but I was making plans to visit the "Big Easy" in Feb for the GIS and my 18th wedding anniversary.

[Waterit]

Not only is it threatening the blinker fluid supply, but I was making plans to visit the "Big Easy" in Feb for the GIS and my 18th wedding anniversary.

From what I saw on Weather Channel today, you're going to get a little taste of Big Easy sub-culture right in your own backyard in the form of evacuees. If it's anything like what happened here after Katrina, buy more ammo.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

From what I saw on Weather Channel today, you're going to get a little taste of Big Easy sub-culture right in your own backyard in the form of evacuees. If it's anything like what happened here after Katrina, buy more ammo.

It seems to be veering west and remains a category three. We'll see if all those federal dollars spent in New Orleans don't go to waste.

[AI Inc]

Not only is it threatening the blinker fluid supply, but I was making plans to visit the "Big Easy" in Feb for the GIS and my 18th wedding anniversary.

Why would ya want to go there? The place is a crime infested shathole.The best part of that city smells like beer, piss and puke. From there it just gets worse. Been there once , no need to ever return.

[Wet_Boots]

It's history, dude. One of our nation's largest cities, back in the days of yore. As a center of the slave trade, it's not all proud history.

[Stuttering Stan]

Let's go hijacking again. What's the story behind blinker fluid? Is it similar to the PVC stretcher?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Also at the mouth of the mighty Mississippi. Few if any rivers have as much productive land as the Mississippi.

I believe the D-Day memorial is there. I have a fond childhood memory of New Orleans. My Dad worked for Mobil and spent a lot of time in NO on business. Let me come one summer I guess I was 10 or so. Took me on a walk through the French Quarter. I ran from door to strip joint door to try and get a quick peak before the door man chased me off. Plus the bananas foster at Brennan's was awesome.

[EagleLandscape]

im glad i have been away this weekend...

[CAPT Stream Rotar]

I think Shepard Smith? is in NO..

It does not look that bad there.

[irrig8r]

Are you blinkers sluggish? Do they make an annoying ticking noise? Do they not flash fast enough? Here's your solution. Little do people know, factory quality blinker fluid should be changed every 150,000 blinks. Our blinker fluid lasts ten times that. KaleCoAuto high quality synthetic blinker fluid meets the highest DOT standards while not being in the least bit DOT legal! KaleCoAuto blinker fluid provides you with thousands of hours of reliable blinking without the wear and tear on the flash-synchro's that the other blinker fluids cause. KaleCoAuto blinker fluid will not lose its viscosity even in the most extreme situations. Why buy that old dino-blinker fluid, when you can get our unique patented synthetic formula? Satisfaction guaranteed!! For use in any car.


http://kalecoauto.com/images/BlinkFluid.jpg

[Waterit]

Are you blinkers sluggish? Do they make an annoying ticking noise? Do they not flash fast enough? Here's your solution. Little do people know, factory quality blinker fluid should be changed every 150,000 blinks. Our blinker fluid lasts ten times that. KaleCoAuto high quality synthetic blinker fluid meets the highest DOT standards while not being in the least bit DOT legal! KaleCoAuto blinker fluid provides you with thousands of hours of reliable blinking without the wear and tear on the flash-synchro's that the other blinker fluids cause. KaleCoAuto blinker fluid will not lose its viscosity even in the most extreme situations. Why buy that old dino-blinker fluid, when you can get our unique patented synthetic formula? Satisfaction guaranteed!! For use in any car.


http://kalecoauto.com/images/BlinkFluid.jpg

::::heads to kitchen to get wet paper towels to clean sprayed iced tea off of monitor::::

[irrig8r]

It's history, dude. One of our nation's largest cities, back in the days of yore. As a center of the slave trade, it's not all proud history.

And lets not forget the music....Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton, Fats Domino, Dr. John, Pete Fountain, Al Hirt, Harry Connick Jr., Allen Toussaint, The Neville Brothers, The Meters, The Radiators, Branford Marsalis, Trent Reznor, Better Than Ezra...among many others

And check this out: http://www.nolamusiciansvillage.com/

[Wet_Boots]

....and Michael Doucet and BeauSoleil. Think I'll hunt up the post-Katrina appearance he made on PHC and hear that sweet sad performance of "When the Flowers Bloom"