A specialized lawn service?

[formerscrub]

Since I starting this business 1 year ago with 5 lawns I have grown into a legitimate LCO with 35 residental accounts via word of mouth. I started out charging by the cut but after losing money
last year I informed all of my accounts that I would bill monthly based on 32 cuts per year.(raising what they were paying per month considerably) I told them that I would be purchasing a larger mower(presently I run 2 toro proline 21 inchers)to helping in the expanding business. I was suprised to hear from them that they wanted me to continue with the 21's and would gladly pay me more to do so. Most of them stated there former LCO's tore up their lawns with the bigger machines and thought the 21's did a better job.(I must admit that I did see several lawns with damage) Now the question......Has anyone ever heard of a company that specialized in cutting with the small mowers. I think that if I can corner that market and advertise to the people who specifically want that(seems like mostly older people)and charge more i could actually come out ahead. Although it would take more time I think I would have less overhead than if I financed a larger mower. The question is has anyone ever heard or been asked about this?

[Twotoros]

Over half the lawns in my area are mowed with 21's. Lot sizes here are 50x150 to100x300 in most areas. Lawns are small and broken up. Most lco's use a 36"er when they can. But over five years ago 21's dominated.
When I bought a 36wb 5 years ago I had quite a few complaints about the cut compared to the 21's. I don't see it myself. I like the look of a wider cut.

If the are willing to pay more do it. Just so the money is the same at the end of the day. They are not willing here.

[TLS]

formerscrub,

If you are currently cutting those 35 lawns with a 21" push mower, then you have absolutely no need for a ZTR of any size! :)

Biggest I suggest you go would be a 36" walkbehind, or at absolute most, a 48" walkbehind.

You didn't say, but from your post I would guess that your largest lawn would be about a 1/4 acre. There is no need for larger equipment on these size lawns.

Stick with the pushmowers! ;)

[scott's turf]

How long does your average lawn take to cut with a 21"?

[BRIAN GALLO]

If you have small lawns and make good $$$ using 21" mowers than keep going. There are some guys around here that cut bigger lawns with 21"ers, but usually it takes 3-4 guys cutting with 21's to get the lawn done fast, and I don't know how they could be making money. My customers used to give me a song and a dance about why they didn't want me to use "big" mowers. I told them if I had to use 21's then the price will have to be 4x as much! Usually that puts it in perspective for them. And by the way, a big mower wont tear up a yard, what tears up a yard is operator neglect!

[Nelson]

formerscrub,

Where @ in Florida? I use a 32" Toro Proline w/sulky here in Florida, and
it does just fine, it fits threw any gate. Plus I have a
Toro 6 HP self propeled personal pace. I know this spring I will
have to get a bigger w/b , cause I am going to kick A$$..:D

[formerscrub]

Just to update the questions posted it takes about half an hour to complete a lawn and most of them are all together on the same block.(all done by myself) here in Pasco county Florida the grass is really starting to grow so I am gonna have to make a decision soon

[CSRA Landscaping]

A 36" WB will do wonders. It will do all you need it to do presently and more. Belt drive is fine. I just got one to replace the 21" on a particular account and I must say that I was so impressed that I've since began to use it on other accounts, with MAH-velous results. Good luck!

PS - It's very easy on the turf.

[lawnman_scott]

I would buy the walk behind, and do it both ways. If they want to pay more to have it done with a 21 inch then let them. I know I have had quite a few that wanted me to mow with one of those, but I dont see how i would make money. Seems like it would be way too much work also, lots harder than riding. If your willing to do that, may want to offer to bag the grass also, the older people like that also, and they are also the ones that want a small mower form what i have seen.

[65hoss]

I agree with lawnman scott. If your going to stay in the small lawn market, do it both ways. Get a 32" or 36" and use it whenever possible. Only use the 21" if someone wants to pay more. I hate the looks of a 21" cut personnally. I think the smoother look from a wider deck looks better. Some disagree with me, and that is ok. To each his own. I don't even carry a 21" anymore. I refuse to use it.

[Lanelle]

Yes there is a specialized service in our area that advertises that they use 21" mowers. You should see their prices---no wonder they call themselves 'Diamond cutters'. As I recall, minimum is $29.95 for 5,000 sq. feet. So this tells me that they are doing small lawns and making money at it. I can see that a very small lawn would look nifty with small stripes. They have nice enclosed trailers with huge 'ads' on the sides of them. Oh, yes they have been around for a few years now.

[keifer]

Out of all my lawns I have one lady that wants it done with a 21 because the last guys tore up her lawn and I do think it is the lco but if the money is right I try to do what ever they want.

[luv of green]

SOUNDS LIKE U R DOING WELL, FROM MY EXPERIENCE IF U R LOOKING FOR THE BEST MOWER I WOULD HAVE TO SAY A 32 WOULD BE IDEAL. THIS IS GOING TO GIVE U THE XTRA WIDTH OF CUT AND A 12.5 KAW WILL TURN THE TRICK U R LOOKING TO DO, MAYBE EVEN A VELKE WILL B IN YOUR FUTURE, THE NEW 32 INCHERS HAVE 2 BLADES AND CUT XTREMELY WELL{MINE 1 BLADE32}, THIS WILL ALSO GIVE U THE VERSATILITY TO TAKE ON SOME BIGGER LAWNS FOR XTRA CASH, KEEP WITH THE SMALL LAWNS IF THAT IS WHAT WORKS FOR U BUT ALWYS ENHANCE CAPABILITIES!!!!!!!!!!!!GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!

[RMDoyon]

Do a search.
I recall someone on here last year talking about how he built his entire business around the fact that all his guys used nothing but JD 21" pushmowers and he got a premium for doing it.

Check it out, he claimed some amazing numbers.

Roger

[big james]

There is a crew of Mexicans where I am that use Honda 21's exclusively they have the majority of the lawns because of this reason and price ,And they bag 100% in the summer !there is five of them -4on a 21 and one trimming and blowing . Itimed them on a yard I recently got from them and on my two lazer -zhp's 44and 48 we smoked them time wise BUT most of these guys customers will not allow a Z.T.R. in their yard and I have tried every angle to change their mind to no avail , What I can't figure out is how the owner of this service makes any profit paying four employees ,bear in mind a half acre lot goes for 30-35 bucks in this area.:blob2:and by the way does anybody make a 32 inch hydro walkbehind with a floating deck??? or an east height adj?:mad:

[kutnkru]

Here was a thread that might be of some interesting reading to answer your ???'s:
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19293

[Lawn Dog2001]

Originally posted by formerscrub
Most of them stated there former LCO's tore up their lawns with the bigger machines and thought the 21's did a better job

Instead of using only 21" machines, why not learn how to use the big machines properly? Most lawn damage comes from turning to quickly on wet soil. If people would take their time turning there would be no lawn damage. I have had people complain about big machines. But they never have a problem with us. I teach anyone who works for me how to turn a WB properly. If you take your time and pull back on the inside wheel, you will never have a problem. I think to many LCs are worried about doing it quickly. They dont care if they tear up yards. Just let your people know they wont have that problem with you.

[mowerman90]

Hey there FormerScrub, I'm just a little north of you up here in Spring Hill. There used to be a family of 5 that worked as a team using 21" Hondas with baggers up here. There was also another operator that used 21 inchers exclusivley. Both of them cleaned up with many loyal customers with 80x125 lots. I personally think you'd be better off with a 36 WB. I use a 52 Husky Z and don't ever have a problem tearing up turf with it. Most of my lawns are 80x125's. I do 15 lawns per day (solo)in the summer and am home by 4pm!

[gusbuster]

Originally posted by big james
What I can't figure out is how the owner of this service makes any profit paying four employees

This guy that you're talking about is like every other LCO in my area. One guy who has papers, get his family over the boder. Promises room and board and pays the guy $25 a day. There are so many like that in my area.

John

[keifer]

Originally posted by big james
There is a crew of Mexicans where I am that use Honda 21's exclusively they have the majority of the lawns because of this reason and price ,And they bag 100% in the summer !there is five of them -4on a 21 and one trimming and blowing . Itimed them on a yard I recently got from them and on my two lazer -zhp's 44and 48 we smoked them time wise BUT most of these guys customers will not allow a Z.T.R. in their yard and I have tried every angle to change their mind to no avail , What I can't figure out is how the owner of this service makes any profit paying four employees ,bear in mind a half acre lot goes for 30-35 bucks in this area.:blob2:and by the way does anybody make a 32 inch hydro walkbehind with a floating deck??? or an east height adj?:mad:


Dont know about the floating deck but the toro 32 is easy to ajust has two pins and some what moves up and down on bumpy lawns.

[cantoo]

If you're tearing up the lawn that bad put a set of smooth drive tires on instead of sawtooth, then let's see you tear up the lawn.

[Esby]

There is a service in my area that cuts all of their lawns with 21" Airens push or self propelled mowers. They run a 7-9 of them out of 2 cargo vans. Its mostly college kids that the owner hires to do the large amount of manual labor. They cut 65 properties a week or so. I think they could do a better job on many of there accounts as they rarely blow off the walks, and sometimes the trimming is pretty shotty. But they keep a steady number of customers, it seems they lose alot each year and pick up more the next. Whatever you like I guess. I will stick to my Lazer Z.

[big james]

These guys are all CITIZENS! and they don't live in the same house ,that's why I still can't figure it out?:o

[Mowman]

3 years ago I started my business with a 21" Toro Pro-Line with the 4.5 Suzuki 2 cycle. After my business started to grow into larger properties I bought a Walker MTSD. Now I only use my 21" for pool areas and other places the Walker won't go. If all my lawns were 5,000 sq.ft. or less I'd still be using the 21" as the OVERHEAD running it is very little. The only thing I might do if I had all lawns like that I'd buy a 36" Pro-Line Hydro WB. Alot less overhead running a WB than a larger ZTR.

Mowman

[big james]

why do you say there is more overhead running a ztr verus a 21 other than the obvious up front cost? Now that may sound like a stupid question but when I ran all 21 , 10 years ago ,I spent more money keeping those 21's going than I do these ztr's.

[Mowman]

On a ZTR you have a engine that needs the oil changed every 50-100 hours. Cost for oil and filters average cost for me is $15.00 for oil and filter. That's 2 quarts of Mobil 1 and a filter. Hydro belts deck belts and PTO belts, close to $150.00 to replace them. Then the tires, there are 6 tires on my Walker. There are 6 blades on my deck, $100.00 a crack to replace. Then a trailer to haul the machine around which uses more fuel in your truck. Are you starting to get the BIG PICTURE?
My 21" being a 2 cycle was just gas and oil and a $15.00 blade once a year and a $10.00 drive belt. MAJOR difference in OVERHEAD COSTS.
Mowman

[big james]

you only bought one blade a year ,dang ,you must have been cutting a LOT of grass and lets see now how long does one of them 2 stroke lawnmower engines last ! get the picture.?

[big james]

never had to replace a belt on an exmark yet .
never had to replace a tire yet
do have to change oil ,but it don't have to be Mobil 1
1 ninja blade for a snapper 21 -25 BUCKS
3 Exmark blades 30 buck s
oil filter for 4 cycle 21 8 bucks
oil filter for ztr 8 bucks



NOT HAVING TO DEPEND ON JOSE AND LUPE TO SHOW UP TO PUSH THOSE 21 's ALL DAY.................PRICELESS!:D

[HOMER]

Now I know why I didn't buy that there Walker!:blob3:

3 blades for my 72" Chopper: $30.00
3 blades for my 50" Chopper: $21.00

I stay as far away from 21" yards as I can! If you want what business is up here then come on, ain't nobody cuttin may yards with em here.

Zero turn: Just because it will don't mean you have to. Still twice as fast as a tractor.

[VLM]

I started out part time for several years only using 21" mowers. When I went full time I quickly found out that I needed a faster more efficient mower. I now use only 36 and 48 inch mowers and I wont even think about taking on someone who wants it done only with a 21. Why? Because it is time consuming and frustrating to me. I think you may reach this point soon as well. Until then the market is all yours. Have at it!