Cheap Fert - Deal Or No Deal???

[GREENITUP]

Last month when Lesco gave me this falls fert prices - I just about pulled a Fred Sanford!!! Starter for $34!! 24-0-11 for $26!! 32-5-7 for $32.50!! I soon contacted Southern States - not much better...30-0-10 SCU= $28.10...
18-8-12 with Avail...$26.25 (and this only does 9,000sf). So today - just for giggles - I strolled through Wally-mart - they were clearing out fert (red tag specials) for less than 1/2 of the above.... 29-3-4 polycoated = $12@46.6lb/bag....15.2 lbs of the same for $3/bag. They had other - Scotts brand for more, but their starter was small, ground up particles - kinda like a grub control consistency. So should I buy up all of those $3 bags???? The prills looked just like Lesco product..... but the brand is "Expert Gardener".;)

[tremor]

Grab it. NPK is NPK.

[rcreech]

Grab it. NPK is NPK.

AGREE! A man has to do, what a man has to do!

It is now about survival!

[turf hokie]

Grab it, I bought a pallet of 14-14-14 this spring from home depot. I dont use it regularly but it was a PENNY a bag. I got the the pallet for $.54 after tax. I will find a use for it somehow.

[DeepGreenLawn]

I can never find these deals... how do you guys manage to do this?

[ted putnam]

Lesco got a call from me today. I went there yesterday and found out Fert went up approx $2/bag across the board. This put the 30-0-10 I have been buying from them @about $25/bag. I about Sh%#.I left there with the ton in my truck and went to my local Home Depot. Vigoro 29-1-4 ,1%Fe a couple micros and at least 30%scu $20.48/bag. I explained to them at Lesco that It is rare that I even darken the doorway at Home Depot much less buy anything yet I come in Lesco every week through the year. I spend 30+K per year with them but I am paying $160+ more per ton than I would from someone who never sees me. WHAT THE HELL! I told them that the way I saw it, that was pure greed on JD's part. I'm not a very big fish in the pond but it doesn't take very many minnows like me across the country to add up to millions of $$$$ in sales lost. If they keep it up, that's what'll happen. Not a threat....a promise!

[DeepGreenLawn]

Did the HD product cover as much sq ft? Or maybe at least comparible?

I understand what your saying... you know they are hurting as it is... they don't want to help then their customers are going to go somewhere else, I garuntee you 99% are already looking.

[turf hokie]

I can never find these deals... how do you guys manage to do this?

Mostly luck, or just knowing enough people and keeping an eye out at all times for the right deal and not being in a huge hurry for anything.

[ted putnam]

The bag was 46+ pounds. Said it would cover 15k. Which basically it would. I looked at ingredients net weight and scu. Very comparable. The more I thought about it, the more pissed I got. It's not my reps fault, I know that. It's the company. I am great friends with those guys, but friendship don't pay the bills. Business is business.

[rcreech]

Lesco got a call from me today. I went there yesterday and found out Fert went up approx $2/bag across the board. This put the 30-0-10 I have been buying from them @about $25/bag. I about Sh%#.I left there with the ton in my truck and went to my local Home Depot. Vigoro 29-1-4 ,1%Fe a couple micros and at least 30%scu $20.48/bag. I explained to them at Lesco that It is rare that I even darken the doorway at Home Depot much less buy anything yet I come in Lesco every week through the year. I spend 30+K per year with them but I am paying $160+ more per ton than I would from someone who never sees me. WHAT THE HELL! I told them that the way I saw it, that was pure greed on JD's part. I'm not a very big fish in the pond but it doesn't take very many minnows like me across the country to add up to millions of $$$$ in sales lost. If they keep it up, that's what'll happen. Not a threat....a promise!

Ted,

I guess I disagree a little!

That is like saying no matter what you should always match TG on price! That isn't fair as only you know what it takes to make a fair profit. Well, it is exactly the same with fert suppliers!

I understand where you are coming from and see what you are saying, but remember a few things when comparing a home improvement store to a Professional Turf store.

1) I would never compare prices at a home improvement store to a professional grade of fert. I bought about 20 ton of the Lowe's fert last year and to be honest I hated it. I ended up selling most of it because of the VERY INCONSISTENT product from bag to bag, particle size, and dustiness.

2) Home Depot probably has so much fert bought at a price and so as long as they sell about that they are fine.

3) Home Depot has MANY items and all they have to do is make a little money on everything. They even have products that they LOSE money on just to get people into the store (called a lost leader).

Why would a Professional Turf store want to "match" a home improvement store when the products don't even compare?

Lesco JDL and every other supplier has to make a profit so they can stay in business....but if they try and match a home improvement store they will end up going out even quicker!

[ted putnam]

Rodney, I punched a hole in the bag( not trying to get 50% discount:laugh:) just to see the quality. It was comparable, maybe not quite as good but $160/ton difference. I think not. It also had a couple micros and 1% iron. JDL's 30-0-10 25%scu no iron , no micros. I just feel like I got raked over the coals. Honestly, I'll be done with dry fert by 3rd week of this month. I then start liquid apps, Fall pre-emerg/winterizer. I've already begun shopping around and will continue. I plan on taking americanlawn's advice and splitting a semi load with a friend.(Maybe...Some of Phasthounds 16-2-3. I've heard good things about it from someone locally and others on here) My friend owns his own LC biz and is not to far away. I'm going to buy what Home Depot has left and that should finish me on the dry fert this year. I will see what JDL has to bring to the table next Spring and if I don't like what I see I'll have an alternate plan. Like you said "It's about survival. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do."

[rcreech]

I know...I was just stating why I thought it wasn't fair to compare prices at HD and JDL.

I do agree that it one has to to what one has to do....I just don't think JDL should base their prices off a dusty, inconsistent, store grade product.

[ted putnam]

I agree Rodney. But from what I've seen, (and I've seen some crap fert in my almost 20yrs of doing this) the difference in these 2 is like the difference between buying a Chevy and a GMC truck. The Name, a little more"glitz" and PRICE. JMHO

[rcreech]

I agree Rodney. But from what I've seen, (and I've seen some crap fert in my almost 20yrs of doing this) the difference in these 2 is like the difference between buying a Chevy and a GMC truck. The Name, a little more"glitz" and PRICE. JMHO

Good analogy!

The thing I hated about the Lowes product was, I would dump a bag or two in the PG and it would be really fine (Maybe 200 SGN) and then then the next two or three bags would be coarser product (Maybe 300 SGN). I could never get a consistent setting on my machine and was constantly chasing calibration!

I wasn't comfortable using the product and felt that as a professional I owed it more to my customers to put on a consistent product at the correct rate.

Just my experience with the Lowes junk I bought this year! Was very unhappy with it!

[ted putnam]

....And I might run into that problem with this Rodney. Really though, no more than I have left to do, it shouldn't be a headache for too long. I don't plan on HD being my new Fert supplier:laugh: My luck...I'd get busted by one of my customers buying stuff they could get at the same price. I just need to get done with dry fert and I'll be much better off. I'm almost at the point in the year where I'll actually feel like I'm making money instead of just recycling it.

[bug-guy]

down here i check the big box stores on fert $ the big orange one was selling lesco 26-2-11 covers 12000 for 28 /50# bag. jdl was 22for 24 -2-11 50# more fe and better minors

[LIBERTYLANDSCAPING]

Here's something to consider- When you buy fert. from Lesco & other suppliers that are in the fert. business, you are closer to the markets...The fertilizer inventory is constantly being turned over throughout the year.

In Home Depot & Lowes, much of it may still be the fert they brought in around February, when fert prices were almost half of what they are now. As soon as they go to replace that product @ current market prices, it will jump up in price. I know my local Menards has starter fert @ almost half of what my supplier carries it for right now-they told me it's a slow mover & they have had the same stuff since the spring, but when they have to replace it......watch out!

It does take a little explaining, when you tell people that have been ferting their own lawn, that your prices are so high because fert has doubled since the early spring, and they comment that it hasn't gone up much where they buy it @ the big box store:o

[cowboytim]

have been useing big orange for a little over a year, and have had no problems at all with it. I amgoing to continue to as well untill jd gets there act together.

[mikesturf]

Grab it, I bought a pallet of 14-14-14 this spring from home depot. I dont use it regularly but it was a PENNY a bag. I got the the pallet for $.54 after tax. I will find a use for it somehow.

I will buy your fertilizer from you at a 1,000% mark-up (dime per bag) and I am also willing to pay you cash ($5.40), however this price would require you to deliver it to me (NW Suburbs of Chicago) :laugh:. Seriously, I love using 14-14-10 on very shady lawns or on ornamentals.

[humble1]

Good analogy!

The thing I hated about the Lowes product was, I would dump a bag or two in the PG and it would be really fine (Maybe 200 SGN) and then then the next two or three bags would be coarser product (Maybe 300 SGN). I could never get a consistent setting on my machine and was constantly chasing calibration!

I wasn't comfortable using the product and felt that as a professional I owed it more to my customers to put on a consistent product at the correct rate.

Just my experience with the Lowes junk I bought this year! Was very unhappy with it!


Is there a guage that you can push a prill thru to measure its size. Not sarcasim, im just wondering how I could determine if the size was different bag to bag to readjust my opening?

[tremor]

Is there a guage that you can push a prill thru to measure its size. Not sarcasim, im just wondering how I could determine if the size was different bag to bag to readjust my opening?


Whether buying, selling or blending fertilizer the industry standard for checking SGN is the Sylvite screening gauge.

http://www.sylvite.com/screening.htm

The "Online Order" link is broken this morning but click the "Contact" link & order one on the phone. I paid about $30 for mine with UPS from Canada.

You grab a handful of fert & fill the first compartment to the fill line. Slide the cover shut. Turn it on the side & shake out the prills. The screens are Tyler sized. When finished sizing you read the results & make your now informed decision as to average SGN (Size Guide Number).

This is also the way we determine UI (Uniformity Index).

Due to increased worldwide fertilizer consumption the SGN & UI are not as good as they once were. There used to be a marked difference in Ag-Grade versus Lawn Grades of fertilizer. There just isn't enough supply that is prescreened for size so blenders have been lowering standards the past 10 years or so.

Fair standards:....................SGN

Golf greens & tees..............100-120
Golf fairways......................150-180
Lawns (combos).................220-240
Lawns (straight).................240-280
Ag uses & milling....................280+

Home improvement stores don't order specail "cheaper" grades. But they might buy during seasonal lows then get tired of watching it lose value. Many big-box retailers are penalized (financial) & would prefer to discount than pay for internal financial adjustments.

[tremor]

For the record, pre-emergent products yield much better coverage (results) if sized smaller. I sell mostly Anderson's SGN 210 which works much better than coarse grades.

[rcreech]

Is there a guage that you can push a prill thru to measure its size. Not sarcasim, im just wondering how I could determine if the size was different bag to bag to readjust my opening?

There is a box with screens that you can use to get your avg SGN...but I am not sure where you would get one.

[tremor]

The attached images demonstrate two different preemergent products.

The top one is The Anderson's 19-0-6 .106 Dimension SGN 215

The bottom is a low grade manufacturer 22-0-4 .17 Dimension SGN 240

Despite the higher active ingredient both of these products performed similarly in a 20 ton comparison. The 22-0-4 .17 Dimension cost the buyer 17% more money yet permitted significant breakthrough related to the poor coverage.