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treemover
09-06-2008, 12:14 AM
Looking for a small track loader for fine grade and general landscaping. I have three in mind case 420, tak tl130 or cat 247 b series II. Anybody have any experience on any of these machines? Any help would be appreciated.

CAT powered
09-06-2008, 01:09 AM
I'm sure Bobcat Ron will be happy to comment once he sees this thread.
He has a CAT 247B series II and I know he loves it.

Bleed Green
09-06-2008, 02:39 AM
I heard Deere is coming out with a radial lift ctl based off their 315 skid steer later this year. That wont be too big, sounds like it would be in the size class you are looking at, maybe it would fit your needs.

Dirt Digger2
09-06-2008, 03:36 AM
the 130 is an absolute amazing machine...i haven't run it a whole lot in the past year because i have been in the "real" machines so to speak, but with what you are looking for the TK will surpass all your needs....we looked at the CATS when we went to buy but they are a lot more expensive and the dealer support (in this area) isn't so great...and we own a few other CAT machines as well....anyway...demo them all but pound for pound i think the TK will impress you a lot

Junior M
09-06-2008, 09:35 AM
I have ran a case 420 and it was a 2 series so it was a little under powered but the newest series, 3 series, they added 20 horse to it so I am sure it is a lot better machine.. Also the visibility out of the rear and behind the tracks was left a little to be desired.. The visibility behind the tracks is understandable being that the way it is built.. and the visibility out of the rear isnt great but you can get by.. Over all it was really easy to grade with compared to hand and foot controls and I picked up the H controls real fast.

jmf
09-06-2008, 09:41 AM
Put ASV on your list, especially if you operate what you own.

jmf

AWJ Services
09-06-2008, 09:46 AM
The Takeuchi machines are wonderful and the the new 2 series has the hyd quick attach available.
Here they can be purchased in the low 30k range with an open cab so it is hard too get a machine any cheaper.

bobcat_ron
09-06-2008, 11:15 AM
The Cat will be the cheapest on fuel in all the bunch, everyone laughed at me when they saw the size of my machine, but now I am laughing when I see my monthly fuel bill.

AWJ Services
09-06-2008, 11:24 AM
I am not sure I will agree with that comment.
My TL 140 is wonderful on fuel.
The TL 130 is also a sipper as well.
They may not be as good as your Cat but they are well below average fuel usage wise.

bobcat_ron
09-06-2008, 11:32 AM
It's all relevant to fuel tank size, 17 gallons in my Cat versus 28 gallons in the Bobcat's.

ccstrebe
09-06-2008, 11:53 AM
If you are doing fine grade and landscaping I think you will be happier with your results if you go with the Cat, it isn't going to tear up the ground the way a CTL does.

treemover
09-06-2008, 01:20 PM
well the cat is the first one i have demo'd. Demo'd a taki tl150 year and a half ago before we bought a wheel loader. Im a huge fan of taki s , i have a tb135 and love it) but the cat impressed me alot. nice power, smooth riding and was climbing and grading some sand berms that i couldnt believe i was doing. the downsides I have seen so far are the door swinging open instead of rolling up and lack of loader breakout force and curl force. I can let this one slide since it wont be use to much for heavy digging. The tl 130 is next on the demo list for sure. Just talked to case and taki dealer (same salesman they deal in both) this morning and said not to bother with the case. The taki would run it under the table and was considerably less money two.

I have to agree with ron on fuel consumption. The cat salesman here has been doing a lot of research that issue. He says 246 II uses around 2.7 gal/hour., not to get off subject but he says the 277c & 287c uses only about 2.4 g/hr. Hard to believe but I know a guy that traded in a 2 tl 150s one with 300hrs and one with 1500 hr because he was burning as much fuel in 2 277c's than 1 tl 150. That adds up to a large number over the course of a year!!
One last thing, 39,5 for the cat, cab heat air, 72" bucket and 4 year major component warranty. Doesnt sound bad

treemover
09-06-2008, 01:23 PM
Wouldnt the asv take you back with all the problems cat had with the series 1 246? I have seen a couple work and they look odd, dont seem like visibility would be that great

bobcat_ron
09-06-2008, 05:06 PM
The old 246's had a smaller displacement engine than the 277's, and the injector pumps were obviously jacked up to get the power, but the new 246C has a bigger frame to accommodate the newer engine. I burn roughly 2.2 gallons per hour, but I have yet to get the fuel light to go on when the tank is low, so it's hard for me to place an accurate number on fuel consumption.

Izzy and Kubota's will burn more in skid steers due to the pumps always being under constant power, put those engines into excavators, and you get better fuel economy. A good example is the Izzy in the Hitachi ZX75 my Dad bought, it has the same engine as the Takeuchi TL130, we get 2 days on a 32 gallon tank, 2 gallons per hour, the TL130 will get (according to some of the members here) 1 day at best.

AWJ Services
09-06-2008, 06:20 PM
The TL 130 has a yanmar engine in it.
My TL 140 has a Izuzu engine and I have never had too fill up during the day.
The TL150 uses only a couple tenths more gallons per hour than my TL140.

One other thing you have too look at how fast a machine will do the job as well as fuel burned per hour.
Oh and my Kubota excavator guzzles fuel.

ksss
09-06-2008, 06:31 PM
well the cat is the first one i have demo'd. Demo'd a taki tl150 year and a half ago before we bought a wheel loader. Im a huge fan of taki s , i have a tb135 and love it) but the cat impressed me alot. nice power, smooth riding and was climbing and grading some sand berms that i couldnt believe i was doing. the downsides I have seen so far are the door swinging open instead of rolling up and lack of loader breakout force and curl force. I can let this one slide since it wont be use to much for heavy digging. The tl 130 is next on the demo list for sure. Just talked to case and taki dealer (same salesman they deal in both) this morning and said not to bother with the case. The taki would run it under the table and was considerably less money two.

I have to agree with ron on fuel consumption. The cat salesman here has been doing a lot of research that issue. He says 246 II uses around 2.7 gal/hour., not to get off subject but he says the 277c & 287c uses only about 2.4 g/hr. Hard to believe but I know a guy that traded in a 2 tl 150s one with 300hrs and one with 1500 hr because he was burning as much fuel in 2 277c's than 1 tl 150. That adds up to a large number over the course of a year!!
One last thing, 39,5 for the cat, cab heat air, 72" bucket and 4 year major component warranty. Doesnt sound bad


The Series 3 420 CT is much more competative than the initial series. I don't know if they have Series 3 420 to demo but it would be more competative with the TL130 than the first series. The 440 CT Series 3 is a bigger machine than the 420 but much more powerful. The 440 CT is only three foot pounds less in torque than the TL150 but substantially more compact and manueverable. The CASE dealer here sells CASE and TK as well. As the CASE tracked machines have been out now for a while, the dealer has been more comfident in selling them. They sell more of the 440 sized tracked machines in the CASE brand. As far as the larger machines go they more of the 150 sized TK than the CASE machines. I would look at the CASE 440 CT original series or the Series 3 and compare it against anything on the market and for pure excavating ability it cant be beat. The 420 sized machines are not that popular here so I only know what I am told. I know of only one 420 CT in this area. The 440 machines a very popular.

treemover
09-07-2008, 01:02 PM
ksss is your 440 a ct? how do you like it if it is?

ksss
09-07-2008, 03:40 PM
ksss is your 440 a ct? how do you like it if it is?


My 440 is wheeled. However, I was part of a CASE customer evaluation of the CT models in AZ. Present also as a basis of comparison were the CAT 277B, TK 140, BC S250 and a Komatsu (cant recall the model.

The 440 CT dominated the excavation excercises of the tests. No machine dominated every aspect of all the tests but for me the strong performance in this aspect was important to me. The machine dominated every other machine present, even in hard Caliche of AZ, its ability to put power to the ground impressed everyone, especially the competative owners. I owned a 440 so I know how powerful they are in wheeled form, but tracks on it and its incredible. The Series 3 machines have even more torque. Like I said the 440 CT has sold itself. The dealership here had pushed the TK machines prior to the CT release and did well with them. However once a couple 440 CTs sold and the machines performance became well known, they sell easily to those in market for such a machine. They have not sold any of the large 450 machines here, those sales still seem to go to the TK150. However the smaller market is owned by the 440 CT machine.

If your in the market for a machine this size, it would worth the time to demo this machine. Especially if you are going to work this machine in hard digging operations, the machine will really shine. If your going to use it in more of a lift and carry type operations, than your not playing to its strongest attributes.

buzzyng
09-11-2008, 02:11 AM
We've now been looking at adding a CTL as well with the 247B2 and the TL 130 on the short list. THe Cat performed awesome but is $5k more than the Tak. The Tak is $30k for an open cab but the dealer wont allow us to demo the machine ... they said they don't do demos? A little leary on making decisions without testing it but the reviews on here have been very positive and at 5000 less, seems like a better deal.

ksss
09-11-2008, 02:33 AM
We've now been looking at adding a CTL as well with the 247B2 and the TL 130 on the short list. THe Cat performed awesome but is $5k more than the Tak. The Tak is $30k for an open cab but the dealer wont allow us to demo the machine ... they said they don't do demos? A little leary on making decisions without testing it but the reviews on here have been very positive and at 5000 less, seems like a better deal.


A dealer that doesn't do demos? I'll beat they don't sell many machines with that type of policy.

bobcat_ron
09-11-2008, 10:36 AM
A dealer that doesn't do demos? I'll beat they don't sell many machines with that type of policy.

My local Takeuchi dealer said the same, he wanted to get the paper work going on a new TL230 instead of the older TL130 he had in the yard. Very, very odd.

treemover
09-11-2008, 11:51 PM
I agree that is odd but i have a few dealers in my area that only want you to put a hour on the machine during demo?! What is a fair time on a demo? I think 6-8 hours

Scag48
09-12-2008, 02:08 AM
No demo for a machine you're going to buy? Boy, they sure want your business. Reminds me of the local Deere dealer when my old man was shopping for a mini a few years back. I must've called them 3 times for a price, nobody ever did call me back and I remember asking about a demo and they said they'd have to charge to rent me one because they didn't have a 35C on the lot, it would have to been trucked over from Seattle. I figured why go out of my way to get into a machine, it should be the other way around. The Cat dealer, on the other hand, will rent us a machine as a demo but put the rental fees toward the machine if you buy it, basically a free machine. If you don't buy, I think they'll give you a day for free but after that they charge you something, never gone down that road so I'm not 100% sure. We had a 303CR on rent for over a month and the 277B we had was the same way, those rental fees went toward the machine purchase price. Not a bad deal.