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cpel2004
09-12-2008, 07:57 PM
What the heck is up with gas prices, I filled up this morning and 87 octane was $3.87 this evening the price was 4.95 for regular. And it may go up.....*trucewhiteflag*

Tharrell
09-12-2008, 08:04 PM
Must be the threat out in the gulf. I noticed it went up about 30 cents today here in southern virginia/northern nc.
I went to get about $50 for the big truck to see me through the weekend and while listening to the radio, they were announcing the states attorney general number to complain about price gouging. Tony

doubleedge
09-12-2008, 08:35 PM
The hurricane will be/is shutting down refineries, wich will cause less gas to be refined, which = higher gas prices.

mississippiturf
09-12-2008, 08:56 PM
One chain of stations went from $3.51 yesterday to $5.17 today!! Hope they can prove gouging from the state's AG office.

topsites
09-12-2008, 10:25 PM
All right, I will tell you what is going on but it is kind of a secret
so don't tell nobody, anyhow, here goes:

Gasoline is going up in price.

mower&more1986
09-12-2008, 10:54 PM
I was wonding how long it would take people to notice
seems to be going up 10cents a day over in less then a week its went from $3.69 to $3.89 and $4.19
with the rate people buy gas i could only imagine the profits there raking in.

Dave_005
09-12-2008, 11:36 PM
What the heck is up with gas prices, I filled up this morning and 87 octane was $3.87 this evening the price was 4.95 for regular. And it may go up.....*trucewhiteflag*

GREED !!! if there is even a SLIGHT RUMOUR of an interuption in supply they jack the price up IMMEDIATELY... but when there is no interrupition in the supply or a surplus they are very very slow to bring the price back down ..

stevenf
09-12-2008, 11:49 PM
Ive done some research and learned to get used to it for the time being. There was a bill passed about a year ago that states in 2012, all vehicles must have a minimum of 35mpg. The only way they are going to reach and keep enough power is to go diesel. In the mid 80's Ford had a Diesel Ranger that got 45mpg. Mazda discontinued there 2.3L diesel the next year so production stopped.
I just got word that the new Jeep Libertys are diesels. Im expecting Ford and Chevy to have some type of vehicle to compete with them. Its only a mtter of time. Hopefully sooner then I think....

topsites
09-12-2008, 11:54 PM
Ive done some research and learned to get used to it for the time being. There was a bill passed about a year ago that states in 2012, all vehicles must have a minimum of 35mpg. The only way they are going to reach and keep enough power is to go diesel. In the mid 80's Ford had a Diesel Ranger that got 45mpg. Mazda discontinued there 2.3L diesel the next year so production stopped.
I just got word that the new Jeep Libertys are diesels. Im expecting Ford and Chevy to have some type of vehicle to compete with them. Its only a mtter of time. Mabey sooner then I think....

That won't happen, diesel always has been and always will be a limited production engine and thus vehicle.
Diesel is not the golden egg everyone always dreams of, and there are more than a few very real reasons for it.

For starters diesel isn't cheap.
The engines cost a lot, and so does the upkeep.

It doesn't work like a gasoline engine at all, most shop mechanics can't even work on it,
it takes special training and a specific diesel certified mechanic just to work on a diesel,
they charge a lot of money but mostly because it takes a lot of hours, hence labor is high.
Another way to put it, there is little about a diesel engine that is simple, or easy to fix.

They are very inefficient around town, short trips kill the diesels efficiency,
it would never work for daily commuters.

That a few cars here and there roll off the assembly line with a diesel engine, no argument there.
But diesels are really only profitable on vehicles that expect to roll out a lot of miles, such as 18-wheelers, and trains.

So...
What will happen is the same thing as what happened in the 80's...

New automobiles will acquire new technology which is already available but the reason
it hasn't been implemented is because it drastically increases the price of a new car.

So, for a new car that now costs 20-30 thousand...
Soon I'd say we'll see 40-60 thousand being the norm.

That is what most likely is going to happen, mostly
because we done been there and done that.

DuallyVette
09-13-2008, 01:09 AM
That won't happen, diesel always has been and always will be a limited production engine and thus vehicle.
Diesel is not the golden egg everyone always dreams of, and there are more than a few very real reasons for it.

For starters diesel isn't cheap.
The engines cost a lot, and so does the upkeep.

It doesn't work like a gasoline engine at all, most shop mechanics can't even work on it,
it takes special training and a specific diesel certified mechanic just to work on a diesel,
they charge a lot of money but mostly because it takes a lot of hours, hence labor is high.
Another way to put it, there is little about a diesel engine that is simple, or easy to fix.

They are very inefficient around town, short trips kill the diesels efficiency,
it would never work for daily commuters.

That a few cars here and there roll off the assembly line with a diesel engine, no argument there.
But diesels are really only profitable on vehicles that expect to roll out a lot of miles, such as 18-wheelers, and trains.

So...
What will happen is the same thing as what happened in the 80's...

New automobiles will acquire new technology which is already available but the reason
it hasn't been implemented is because it drastically increases the price of a new car.

So, for a new car that now costs 20-30 thousand...
Soon I'd say we'll see 40-60 thousand being the norm.

That is what most likely is going to happen, mostly
because we done been there and done that.


Thats a lot of interesting stuff that you just made up !!:laugh:

corey4671
09-13-2008, 01:26 AM
I got lucky and caught one station this morning beofre it went up. ONe chain here went from 3.59 yesterday to 3.99 this morning. There was one station in the next county over that went to 5.29...bastards...you CANNOT prove to me that that is not GOUGING!! The state attorney's need to start making an example of some of these freakin nazis!! they nailed a few around here that tried that crap on 9/11/01.

George Mason
09-13-2008, 01:47 AM
Natural Gas and LP are viable sources and legitimate options. If I am not mistaken they have, or can easily make, a converter kit for most gas engines too. I know I would/could use one as my commute is about 10 min. to and from and I drive back roads so no need to exceed 40 mph. I'd drive my 4 wheeler if it was legal.

On diesel maintenance, I agree with the longer range being the most efficient, but so far as servicing we have had nothing but luck with diesel engines in that department and that goes back two generations, and hundreds of thousands miles. Not that we have had any bad luck with gas engines but we have a 1989 Dodge with the Cummings that we use to tow a low-boy and six ton back-hoe, and that runs strong as ever, and my grandfather picked up a Mercedes Diesel back in the 1990's to replace the one he sold in the '80s, left over from the 1970's gas shortage. The one he has now, it'd odometer stopped at something like 377,000 and that was years ago and still zero service issues, just the routine oil change, and he drives it everywhere and gets about 40 mpg all-around, and mid-50's on a interstate trip.

topsites
09-13-2008, 01:47 AM
Thats a lot of interesting stuff that you just made up !!:laugh:

Yeah and I suspect your claim of 26 years in business is a flimsy veil of BS too.

Even if it was made up neither you nor I nor the US automobile industry will ever bypass EPA regulations,
which the only reason any diesels are even made is due to the fact that so many gasoline-powered
vehicles must be sold before the first diesel can roll off the assembly lines.

And if you think the EPA is going to suddenly drop their pollution regulations in favor of high mileage vehicles
then you are dreaming as global warming is fixing to drastically alter our entire food chain, so I doubt very
seriously that would happen, if anything the standards are fixing to get tougher.

It has to do with Pollution, a diesel produces so many tons per year and the pollution a diesel produces
is in excess of what the EPA allows. So, in order to stay within the EPA's guidelines the automotive
industry produces gasoline-powered vehicles that produce less tons of pollution per year than the EPA's
mandates so they can then throw off the balance onto diesels.

Works like pollution credits, in a fleet of cars you can exceed the EPA's pollution standards on a few of them
so long the rest of them are within the standards AND the sum of the fleet doesn't exceed the standards as
an average, get it?

Read: You will NEVER see diesels as the main automobile.
They will ALWAYS be a limited production vehicle.

Thank you Now!

I got lucky and caught one station this morning beofre it went up. ONe chain here went from 3.59 yesterday to 3.99 this morning. There was one station in the next county over that went to 5.29...bastards...you CANNOT prove to me that that is not GOUGING!! The state attorney's need to start making an example of some of these freakin nazis!! they nailed a few around here that tried that crap on 9/11/01.

It isn't gouging when we quote a high price, and so long the consumer
has choices it's also not gouging.

Gouging is when I own the only fueling station for 5,000 miles and I decide to raise prices just for that reason...
I have plenty of supply and the demand is low, but I know you have no choice so then that is gouging, as an example.

But just charging a high price in and of itself
(in the case of fuel somewhat unfortunately) isn't.

btw I fueled this evening at 3.49, same thing, found a station that had not raised theirs.

whoopassonthebluegrass
09-13-2008, 01:52 AM
Cars won't change for years. The stupid **** standards are idiocy. Did you know that the cars for 2012 are already done? Everything is done except actual manufacturing. To make any sort of real change, it takes roughly 8 years to actually implement them into the mainstream...

topsites
09-13-2008, 02:06 AM
Cars won't change for years. The stupid **** standards are idiocy. Did you know that the cars for 2012 are already done? Everything is done except actual manufacturing. To make any sort of real change, it takes roughly 8 years to actually implement them into the mainstream...

Yeah, done, on paper :p

I can draw cars on paper, too!
They get excellent fuel economy :p

But look here, where do you guys think Fuel Injection came from?
Ok, research, huhuhu...
But first it came in High performance autos, Fuel injection has been
around since the 60's but it didn't make its way into the everyday
automobile because as a new technology it was very expensive so
only the highest priced autos (such as the Mercedes) had it!
Around the late 70's cars such as the Datsun 280zx had it,
it wasn't just reserved for $100,000 cars anymore but certainly
it was still a high performance market item which meant if you
wanted fuel injection in your car it cost more!

And today it is in every car, and every car costs more!
It's true, my old Bmw sold brand new for US $20,000,
it has railed fuel injection and double overhead cams and
one coil for each cylinder and all sorts of stuff...
And you might think that stuff is standard but back then it wasn't!

Back in the 80's most cars were carbureted, and you could buy one brand new for 8, 10, 12 grand.

But yes, all that crap is in today's average car.
And how much does a decent car cost new today?
$20,000.

And to be quite honest I believe a very high end car in the 60's probably cost about 20 grand.

It is ALWAYS the high end things get the latest technology first.
That is one reason they cost the most, and why they perform like they do.
Then as the years go by, the stuff trickles on downwards towards the everyday items of the same type.
And, their price goes up.

Until one day you have the same technology in today's things as we had
only in the highest end of the most expensive stuff 20 years ago, but in
the compromise today's everyday item costs AS much as the high end
item did 20 years ago.

Ain't that some SCHITT!

Luvs2Play
09-13-2008, 02:12 AM
Kinda like computers, as soon as the new technology is released for sale, it must be obsolete. otherwise there will be nothing to look forward to. Same goes for cars, you can't possibly think that Ford or Toyota have put the latest technology into the 2009 models, they would be stumped on what to do for 2010. Anyway, how am I going to tow 12,000 lbs. and get 35 mpg? It might be worth a few extra dollars to get that before it trickles down to cheap trucks.

David Gretzmier
09-13-2008, 02:16 AM
Nice professional language gentlemen.

Gas here jumped about 30 cents today, based on the refineries shutting down in Houston. Isn't it funny, we've had probably a dozen, 2 dozen hurricanes hit the gulf, yet I never remember the price gouging like katrina and now Ike. I understand why gas is so high in the gulf area, as the refineries are down and gas is scarce. but we get our gas here from Tulsa Ok, and we have plenty for everyone. also, OIL per barrel is down, almost 40% down from July. so whoever is making gas right now from oil is making a mint. long live capitalism !!

topsites
09-13-2008, 02:25 AM
yeah well I dont care for being accused of not knowing a thing,
sorry for the response but here's a list of new car prices from 1984:
Chevrolet Corvette $23,392
BMW 325 $21,330
Chrysler New Yorker $13,045

And I lied, you could get a new car for as little as 5-6-7 thousand.
GMC 1500 Pickup $5,400
Volkswagon Rabbit $6,994 (today's Golf)
Nissan Pickup $5,634

And how much does a Corvette cost today?
$40-60,000 !
It doubled in price?

So I am telling you, by 2012 we will see 40 and 50 thousand dollar cars.

It won't happen overnight, and certainly not every car... But first they will
decrease engine size which increases fuel economy and keeps the prices the
same (even thou it should make it cheaper but it won't because this is the beginning of the slip).
But happen it will, and then we will have our 35 mpg cars.

And then, slowly but surely we will get tired of the lack of performance :p

Luvs2Play
09-13-2008, 02:38 AM
I just priced a Corvette yesterday, $103,000. I may wait for a different color! Maybe I'll wait for the one that gets 35mpg!

Luvs2Play
09-13-2008, 02:40 AM
Nice professional language gentlemen.

Gas here jumped about 30 cents today, based on the refineries shutting down in Houston. Isn't it funny, we've had probably a dozen, 2 dozen hurricanes hit the gulf, yet I never remember the price gouging like katrina and now Ike. I understand why gas is so high in the gulf area, as the refineries are down and gas is scarce. but we get our gas here from Tulsa Ok, and we have plenty for everyone. also, OIL per barrel is down, almost 40% down from July. so whoever is making gas right now from oil is making a mint. long live capitalism !!

Our wonderful gas comes from OK City, it went down a dime thursday and is still there tonight. Of course, this is Nebrasky, we're always the last to change!

DuallyVette
09-13-2008, 06:34 PM
Yeah and I suspect your claim of 26 years in business is a flimsy veil of BS too.

Even if it was made up neither you nor I nor the US automobile industry will ever bypass EPA regulations,
which the only reason any diesels are even made is due to the fact that so many gasoline-powered
vehicles must be sold before the first diesel can roll off the assembly lines.

And if you think the EPA is going to suddenly drop their pollution regulations in favor of high mileage vehicles
then you are dreaming as global warming is fixing to drastically alter our entire food chain, so I doubt very
seriously that would happen, if anything the standards are fixing to get tougher.

It has to do with Pollution, a diesel produces so many tons per year and the pollution a diesel produces
is in excess of what the EPA allows. So, in order to stay within the EPA's guidelines the automotive
industry produces gasoline-powered vehicles that produce less tons of pollution per year than the EPA's
mandates so they can then throw off the balance onto diesels.

Works like pollution credits, in a fleet of cars you can exceed the EPA's pollution standards on a few of them
so long the rest of them are within the standards AND the sum of the fleet doesn't exceed the standards as
an average, get it?

Read: You will NEVER see diesels as the main automobile.
They will ALWAYS be a limited production vehicle.

Thank you Now!



It isn't gouging when we quote a high price, and so long the consumer
has choices it's also not gouging.

Gouging is when I own the only fueling station for 5,000 miles and I decide to raise prices just for that reason...
I have plenty of supply and the demand is low, but I know you have no choice so then that is gouging, as an example.

But just charging a high price in and of itself
(in the case of fuel somewhat unfortunately) isn't.

btw I fueled this evening at 3.49, same thing, found a station that had not raised theirs.


Where do you get this stuff. You talk to Goober at the fillin station, add a little twist...and you have new FACTS !!!

I hope nobody believes what your saying.

topsites
09-13-2008, 06:47 PM
Where do you get this stuff. You talk to Goober at the fillin station, add a little twist...and you have new FACTS !!!

I hope nobody believes what your saying.

You see it is the tone that pisses me off, that's the only reason I went off like I did,
everything else really is negligible but this is the kind of tone I'd expect out of an
14-18 year old stuck up on himself ignorant little punk and not someone who claims
to have been in business 26 years and driving since at least the 60's, someone who
according to that data is at least 5-10 if not 20 years my senior.

That's what started it.

So, how does someone 50-60 years old come off like this, what is going on here,
I would expect more of a gentleman out of someone that age...

DuallyVette
09-13-2008, 07:17 PM
Where do you get this stuff. You talk to Goober at the fillin station, add a little twist...and you have new FACTS !!!

I hope nobody believes what your saying.

You see it is the tone that pisses me off, that's the only reason I went off like I did,
everything else really is negligible but this is the kind of tone I'd expect out of an
14-18 year old stuck up on himself ignorant little punk and not someone who claims
to have been in business 26 years and driving since at least the 60's, someone who
according to that data is at least 5-10 if not 20 years my senior.

That's what started it.

So, how does someone 50-60 years old come off like this, what is going on here,
I would expect more of a gentleman out of someone that age...

I'm not sure what's "started". Now as a non teen, I may have underestimated the power and value of letter sizing, and punctuation. I do understand that all caps is very bad. I didn't use them. I happen to be stunned at the misinformation that you are spouting as fact. I was also too lazy, and or, thought that it wasn't worth the effort to find some facts, and post links to them, as a counterpoint to your statements.

As I read the posts on my favorite sites, I don't really try to remember who said what. Who's who. How old is Topsites, where does he live, what year did he start driving (I was 9)...Sorry..my apologies. If you'll do a google search, read up on the topic that you'd like to discuss before posting...I'll try not to flame you...and ...Richard Martin.

DuallyVette
09-13-2008, 07:42 PM
PS. Its hard to gage the sentiment in the written word. Live and in person, you would find me witty and charming:laugh::laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh:

mattfromNY
09-13-2008, 08:20 PM
It gets me fired up every time I think about it. Wednesday I said to my wife we better fill up the trucks and cans with gas, b/c there is a storm going to hit the gulf and Texas POSSIBLY by this weekend, and I'm sure that'll be a good excuse to raise prices. Thursday morning, prices are up 10-26 cents/ gallon in town, 2 DAYS BEFORE THE DAMN STORM EVEN HIT!!!!!! Isn't that why they have storage facilities?? In the case of a storm, or a shutdown, they can feed off storage for a few days. Then, if the refineries arent up and running, the ole supply and demand theory kicks in??
Not anymore... Huh, a storm MAY ravage Texas next month, thats a good enough excuse to jack prices on the gas thats ALREADY in the damn tanks at the local station!!!!!
Doesnt matter, the only way around it would be for them to have smaller hands, or us to have bigger B@!!s, anyway you look at it they got us by them!!!!!!

traman
09-13-2008, 09:02 PM
http://www.kbb.com/KBB/green-cars/articles.aspx?BlogPostId=326

DuallyVette
09-13-2008, 10:59 PM
As for fuel prices: I went to Costco this evening. They were out of Regular gas, but they had Premium @ $3.99. So..there's one company that isn't gouging their customers, just a little market adjustment.

North Carolina & South Carolina said that they were going after gougers. It is illegal. I doubt anything will be done though.

DuallyVette
09-14-2008, 12:30 AM
I just priced a Corvette yesterday, $103,000. I may wait for a different color! Maybe I'll wait for the one that gets 35mpg!

You can buy a new corvette coupe for about $42,000 - base model MSRP $48,000. Loaded MSRP $63,000, buy it for $54,000

Convertible + $8000
ZO6 MSRP $73,000 to $83,000 buy it for $10k off
ZR1 MSRP $115,000...brand new... dealers want $200,000, 600+ hp, supercharged.

SEE..they make one for every budget :cool2:

US prices, Canadian prices are much higher.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
09-14-2008, 01:32 AM
I have heard about some of the gasoline prices you folks down south have been paying before and after Ike. $5.00 a gallon????? Yes folks, that is gouging and taking advantage of the situation - so much for stations not making anything on a gal of gas.....

The entire oil/gasoline supply chain is no good for the U.S., it reeks so badly of manipulation all the way down the chain. Unfortunately we are so buried in it, it will take years to get out. But, lets start now so our children won't inherit this huge gas problem.

02DURAMAX
09-14-2008, 01:45 AM
What the heck is up with gas prices, I filled up this morning and 87 octane was $3.87 this evening the price was 4.95 for regular. And it may go up.....*trucewhiteflag*

Damn! that more then a $1 in differance!

David Gretzmier
09-14-2008, 02:13 AM
It is my understanding that there was very little damage to the refineries in Texas and that they will be starting up soon. Heck with gas high andl oil low, who wouldn't? Here's hoping that gas gets in line with oil prices in the next few weeks.