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uclalumni00
09-14-2008, 04:43 AM
Please help...in my backyard, there's a patch of what used to be grass, but now is just dried up soil with weeds. I want to prepare the area for an organic veggie garden.

However when I went to work with the soil...pull weeds, loosen soil, check how deep the soil goes before I hit (concrete?)...I found that I only had about 1.5-2 inches of soil before there was solid bedrock/concrete underneath...is this possible?...and...oh great, now what? Am I forever unable to plant a veggie garden over this?

Then, as I work I find there's an old layer of plastic netting. Some parts were broken up as I was de-weeding and raking...I'd try pulling some of it out to toss out, but the whole area is overlaid with the netting. What am I to do with it? It obviously doesn't decompose.

Thanks in advance for your advice!!

DeepGreenLawn
09-14-2008, 05:47 AM
I don't know what to tell you... I deal with this a lot when aeration and overseeding. Mine comes from old fescue sod that was put down previously. I Just go over it, clean out the aerator from time to time, and keep going. The stuff is a major PITA but you can't really do anything about it.

In your case... as you till, clean the tiller or whatever you use and the more you have to clean it, the less that is in the ground?

treegal1
09-14-2008, 07:36 AM
raised beds for anyone? take some of those dead pine and make a box, fill said box with compost and BAM your done.

hows the seasonal thing going deep??

DeepGreenLawn
09-14-2008, 08:00 AM
Its coming together slowly but surely. I was going to dive right in but to make sure I don't loose focus on the main business I have decided to put a guy on sales by himself until Nov and then start the heavy ads. I am getting my costs and prices together today, I got half of them done yesterday, and then he will start hanging on flyers on doors in specific high end neighborhoods and shopping centers. I want to think the shopping centers will be easier sells as they are more concious about their appearance.

Then after aeration and seeding is done in Oct. I can start helping my guy sell and start installs in Nov.

That is the plan at least... we will see... I am getting shirts and cards and stuff made up this week. Trying to look as professional as possible for our sales.

Going all LED to keep the whole "green" thing going.

You started any of this stuff yet?

Smallaxe
09-14-2008, 08:13 AM
Please help...in my backyard, there's a patch of what used to be grass, but now is just dried up soil with weeds. I want to prepare the area for an organic veggie garden.

However when I went to work with the soil...pull weeds, loosen soil, check how deep the soil goes before I hit (concrete?)...I found that I only had about 1.5-2 inches of soil before there was solid bedrock/concrete underneath...is this possible?...and...oh great, now what? Am I forever unable to plant a veggie garden over this?

Then, as I work I find there's an old layer of plastic netting. Some parts were broken up as I was de-weeding and raking...I'd try pulling some of it out to toss out, but the whole area is overlaid with the netting. What am I to do with it? It obviously doesn't decompose.

Thanks in advance for your advice!!

So you have a couple inches of soil over, what may have been a patio and in that thin layer of dirt there is plactic netting?

Cut the netting in sections starting from one edge and gradually clean off the concrete slab.
Sounds like a patio garden is the best solution to me as well.

cudaclan
09-14-2008, 08:37 AM
Hold off on any food crop plantings. You are describing the ramifications of “landfill garbage”. Others consider it as landfill. The plastic netting may be landscape fabric. You may have other “fillers” that may prohibit fertility or health concerns. A (specialized) soil sample needs to be taken. Raised beds will not alleviate the problem as root taps/stems travel in feet for uptake. A home in our neighborhood had tree stumps buried around the yard (from housing development). You say organic product, I say termite haven. Decay and pests created sinkholes on the plot. The home is subjected to settling now. The ancient steam driven sawmill that cleared the community (development) was buried in our backyard.

treegal1
09-14-2008, 09:03 AM
Its coming together slowly but surely. I was going to dive right in but to make sure I don't loose focus on the main business I have decided to put a guy on sales by himself until Nov and then start the heavy ads. I am getting my costs and prices together today, I got half of them done yesterday, and then he will start hanging on flyers on doors in specific high end neighborhoods and shopping centers. I want to think the shopping centers will be easier sells as they are more concious about their appearance.

Then after aeration and seeding is done in Oct. I can start helping my guy sell and start installs in Nov.

That is the plan at least... we will see... I am getting shirts and cards and stuff made up this week. Trying to look as professional as possible for our sales.

Going all LED to keep the whole "green" thing going.

You started any of this stuff yet?
yes just after fat tuesday.LOLOL, we do the street lighting and seasonal at 2 shopping centers, we also do the maint at night.

cudda, a simple layer of craft paper or (eek) plastic will stop any infiltration, and if its that bad just do a container garden with old wine or whiskey barrels or terracotta pots

DeepGreenLawn
09-14-2008, 09:05 AM
I renovated my front flower bed. Brand new house, all the bushes the contractor planted died. I told the contractor to just give me the money to buy new plants. I got the plants, brought them home and started digging. I found bottles, cups, tools, and few pounds of white gooey stuff that resembled caulking. I doug a few feet under my lawn getting the stuff out and then started filling it back in with potting soil. I now have the best looking biggest roses in the neighborhood and my gardenias are taking off as well.

During the whole reno I was PISSED! There is no telling what else is under my lawn...

DeepGreenLawn
09-14-2008, 09:10 AM
I found a new friend Friday night. Had some whiskey with my bro-n-law who is back on leave from Iraq. He said, "Look, I have to go back to Iraq in a few days so I want to have fun tonight and I need you to have fun with me."

That was a fun night, got home at 4:30am and woke up about 10am. Went back to my in-laws where he was staying, he woke up about 3:00pm and was not looking too good the rest of the day. I felt fine... here is the kicker, I was drinking "super shots," straight whiskey, and he was drinking wiskey/sours? He wasn't too keen of whiskey. He was a yankee too... if that has anything to do with it. We figured I probably put back about a bottle of the stuff before we got out of there...

treegal1
09-14-2008, 10:02 AM
eh, you will always do better with clean spirits, why do you think my people have made spirits in the hills of the blueridge mountains since before NY was a clearing in the woods, and who did we learn from?? not so much the scotts as the anglo africans of the caribean. my grand dad used to call jack daniels " the new comer" and said his grand father made better booze!!!

uclalumni00
09-15-2008, 06:02 PM
Hold off on any food crop plantings. You are describing the ramifications of “landfill garbage”. Others consider it as landfill. The plastic netting may be landscape fabric. You may have other “fillers” that may prohibit fertility or health concerns. A (specialized) soil sample needs to be taken. Raised beds will not alleviate the problem as root taps/stems travel in feet for uptake. A home in our neighborhood had tree stumps buried around the yard (from housing development). You say organic product, I say termite haven. Decay and pests created sinkholes on the plot. The home is subjected to settling now. The ancient steam driven sawmill that cleared the community (development) was buried in our backyard.

Woa,...!

A raised garden bed isn't even feasible, because? You say the roots shoot down beyond the garden box I might construct with wood? Is that possible, and if so is that a problem? I guess if it were to finally hit concrete I can see how that could be...

Also, where'd you get sinkholes from the fact that I have a area of gardening dirt to work with + old plastic netting?

Please someone anyone explain that comment. Thanks... was it overly precautious?

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-15-2008, 06:24 PM
first off, what kind of netting is it? was it for sod or erosion control?

if your just growing annual crops a raised bed with a bottom of some kind you should be just fine if their is polluted soil underneath, just make the bed so you have enough room for good root growth, you can even elevate the bed off the ground if you choose, make sure you have drainage holes

cudaclan
09-15-2008, 07:22 PM
Why would concrete be used in conjunction with erosion control blankets? I am questioning, “what lies beneath”? These blankets consist of synthetic fibers (polypropylene fiber) and/or organic fibers (coconut, straw…). They are primarily used in inclines or prone to washout conditions. Does your lands layout fall in this category?

The tree stumps (buried by the builders) decayed on a plot in our neighborhood caused the sinkholes.

Normally, raised garden box’s have open bottoms. After digging 1.5”-2.0” you found concrete… What will be the depth of the box? Tomato plant roots run up to 2.0’ or more.

growingdeeprootsorganicly
09-15-2008, 07:51 PM
i really didn't read too much into this tread, and not really sure what you problems are, saw the question about growing food crops, assuming annuals? so... i through my post to you about a raised bed, you only know what your dealing with?

tomatoes can be grown in a 1 gallon container if needed, i have a 3 gallon container holding a hanging tomato plant of pretty good size, yes their roots grow deep but it doesn't mean you have to have deep pots/beds what ever to grow them. ever see hydroponics? small root systems big plants,

smaller container do usually grow smaller plants compared to in ground but the biggest problem with small contains is watering needs not production,

try 5-15 gallon containers next year since it's a bit to late for a new crop for you i think? zone 5 right? good luck what ever!

uclalumni00
09-19-2008, 01:20 PM
Thanks for your help, everyone....and then, May I ask, is it conceded upon everyone that a mere 2" of soil and then hard rock (or I don't know what substance) is a cause for raised concern regarding possibly "What's under there"? Why...how deep would dirt under what used to be thinning grass (normally) be, and...why? Considering that my -small- "backyard" is a actually more of a concrete patio, aside from that small patch of dirt/what used to be a small grass area)...

And if it IS a cause for curiosity or concern, is there anything I should do about it, or should I just forget about growing garden veggies there and instead try grass again?....

cudaclan
09-19-2008, 08:21 PM
Grass roots will have difficulty establishing themselves (competition). The PH will tend to be higher (calcium/lime) due to the concrete.

ALICIA21
09-23-2008, 06:36 PM
where can I learn more about this??

DeepGreenLawn
09-23-2008, 07:51 PM
where can I learn more about this??

could you be more specific?

ICT Bill
09-23-2008, 10:21 PM
Hey UCLA, it will be difficult to keep a nice stand of grass on 2 inches of soil, the concrete will heat up and stress the roots and plants, it will be very difficult to keep it watered properly.
Your info doesn't say where you are from but if it gets hot at all I would forget it and go to something else like raised beds

You can try it, it will just be difficult to maintain

I have seen some organic turf that has 18 inch roots, talk about drough tolerance

JDUtah
09-23-2008, 10:33 PM
I agree with Bill but one question...

Why will the concrete heat up?

DeepGreenLawn
09-23-2008, 10:38 PM
radiant heat heats the soil, then convection will heat the concrete... it doesn't take much especially with that little soil. Take 2" of soil and put it on your driveway... it will be cooler than without but it will still warm, and stay warm longer... goes back to the whole worm issue and the cold. The soil will warm up and stay warm from the sun during the day. Works as an insulator...

Maybe think of your attic? You have the roof, shingles, decking, insulation(?), but the attic still gets hot with all of that... the heat won't stop it will just be slowed down...